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Hari Krishroom
Small scale grower.


Registered: 03/09/15
Posts: 34
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
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Cloning from a non-trip shroom
#21978921 - 07/22/15 04:30 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I suffered an anticlimax this week when my first ever batch of shrooms failed to deliver ANY trip at all (2.5g dried, tea). That's one for "The Psychedelic Experience " board.
These were all grown using a MS syringe, Golden Teacher.
Anyway, one of the shrooms grew particularly quickly and large and I took the opportunity to try my first agar clone too (tissue -> Agar). The plate is now actually looking so well developed, which I'm mighty proud of.
However given that the source-shroom has no potency, can I now assume that my clone will be same? Question is do I continue to isolate my agar plate, or just ditch it and wait for my next spore batch?
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Buck513
Registered: 04/17/14
Posts: 5,682
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What do you think?
You're taking a CLONE, its only right to assume you will get the same properties if you grow it out again.
-------------------- Fail to plan and you plan to fail. Enter the Ban Lottery
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Hari Krishroom
Small scale grower.


Registered: 03/09/15
Posts: 34
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
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Re: Cloning from a non-trip shroom [Re: Buck513]
#21978965 - 07/22/15 05:01 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Agreed in logic. I was curious however to learn from experienced growers (EDIT: Cloners) if the potency is also a function of nurture (substrate, nutrition) rather than just pure nature/genetics.
Thanks nonetheless for your input.
Edited by Hari Krishroom (07/22/15 05:02 AM)
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Nature Boy
Stranger than most



Registered: 07/09/07
Posts: 8,241
Loc: Samsara
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Are you sure it's the mushrooms? Perhaps you are just a hard-head, had a bit of tolerance from other substance(s) or medications, or ate food too soon before dosing or some other variable.
Before spending time and money to propagate another round of mushies, why not re-dose under different circumstances at 20% higher dosage and see? Just a thought.
N.B.
-------------------- All submitted posts under this user name are works of pure fiction or outright lies. Any information, statement, or assertion contained therein should be considered pure unadulterated bullshit. Note well: Sorry, but I do not answer PM's unless you are a long-time trusted friend. If you have a question, ask it in the appropriate thread.
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lovesquare
Love²

Registered: 06/04/15
Posts: 556
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Re: Cloning from a non-trip shroom [Re: Nature Boy]
#21978987 - 07/22/15 05:13 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Nature Boy said: Are you sure it's the mushrooms? Perhaps you are just a hard-head, had a bit of tolerance from other substance(s) or medications, or ate food too soon before dosing or some other variable.
Before spending time and money to propagate another round of mushies, why not re-dose under different circumstances at 20% higher dosage and see? Just a thought.
N.B.
 It could have also been tea making procedure and/or improper drying.
-------------------- If you go down round the bend in the river, You're gonna find a few changes been going down there. If you go down to the gas-powered flatland, Where most of the people just think that they're free, Remember the peace that you had on the mountain, Come back to the love that you had here with me...
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Hari Krishroom
Small scale grower.


Registered: 03/09/15
Posts: 34
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
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Re: Cloning from a non-trip shroom [Re: Nature Boy]
#21979005 - 07/22/15 05:25 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I will try it in that case... Not much to lose and worth the experiment for sure.
I'm a self-confessed lightweight. A few puffs of skunk and I'm stoned as a nut; quite embarrasing really, and not entirely enjoyable for me. But perhaps I will dose higher next time, and bypass the tea and just eat them fresh. That should help eliminate possible points of processing failure.
I had my wife and kids out of the house, totally ready for my first ever shroom trip... epic fail! My drying has been fine I'm sure. I use a drying agent that works very quickly, and store them well. My tea was pretty simply made, and I even ate down the soaked shrooms at the end in a final plea to the universe to trip me out.
Anyway, I shall try again with the current clone and see what happens. I've order new spores already, so will have a few options at hand.
Thank you all for the input.
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ShroominMe
Stranger

Registered: 05/03/15
Posts: 525
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
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Psilocybin is a different drug from THC. Everybody's reactions to different drugs are different. You may be a lightweight when consuming one drug and nonreactive to another.
It doesn't sound like you've really considered Nature Boy's response. Are you taking any medications? Did you fast before the dose? Lots to consider, especially when getting a completely nonpsychactive experience when consuming 2.5g in a tea.
You've got plenty of time. I'd recommend trying the dried fruits alone after fasting, not in a tea. That will give you further data in your scientific pursuit.
There isn't any convincing evidence that anything other than genetics and treatment of the fruits after cultivation (quick drying) has anything to do with potency. Lots of people have tried.
On the other hand, a cloning attempt is a good way to learn. 
Good luck.
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Hari Krishroom
Small scale grower.


Registered: 03/09/15
Posts: 34
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
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Re: Cloning from a non-trip shroom [Re: ShroominMe]
#21979265 - 07/22/15 07:48 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
ShroominMe said: Psilocybin is a different drug from THC. Everybody's reactions to different drugs are different. You may be a lightweight when consuming one drug and nonreactive to another.
It doesn't sound like you've really considered Nature Boy's response. Are you taking any medications? Did you fast before the dose? Lots to consider, especially when getting a completely nonpsychactive experience when consuming 2.5g in a tea.
You've got plenty of time. I'd recommend trying the dried fruits alone after fasting, not in a tea. That will give you further data in your scientific pursuit.
So no meds, and I had a small bowl of fruit an hour before.
Next time I'll try the dried fruits alone as you suggest, and will be sure to fast for say 6 hours prior.
I'll grow out this clone anyway, and also grow the new spores using exactly the same subs. If nothing else, I now have a useful control dish.
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up



Registered: 01/24/13
Posts: 19,243
Loc: Babylon
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"drying agent"
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Juiceh
Dabbing All Day



Registered: 09/25/12
Posts: 3,208
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Quote:
Hari Krishroom said: My drying has been fine I'm sure. I use a drying agent that works very quickly, and store them well.
Are you desiccant drying only? I highly recommend getting a dehydrator, use it at its max heat setting. Desiccant drying can work for small amounts, but its slow, and the more time the fruits are wet after picking the more potency loss there will be. It doesn't matter what drying agent you use, none compare to a dehydrator and they are all slow. Fan drying before desiccant drying would be better than just desiccant drying, but it is still sub par compared to dehydrator drying.
Also, don't be afraid to let them run in the dehydrator for another 4-8 hours after you think they are cracker dry.
Edited by Juiceh (07/22/15 09:17 AM)
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Syntheticwords
Victus


Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 375
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
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Re: Cloning from a non-trip shroom [Re: Juiceh]
#21979553 - 07/22/15 09:17 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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The mushies I picked last night were literally bleeding blue I could see the actives
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Juiceh
Dabbing All Day



Registered: 09/25/12
Posts: 3,208
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There are non active mushrooms that bruise blue. You didn't see the actives, period.
Bruising blue is only a way to identify a POSSIBLY active mushroom, because that is a typical trait of the psychoactive mushrooms. But their are mushrooms that bruise blue that won't make you trip at all. Blueing is the flesh oxidising, like how the exposed inner flesh of an apple turns brown. If you look hard enough you will find people have had mushrooms that barely bruised and they tripped balls off them.
When are people going to get it through their heads that bruising does not indicate how potent a mushroom is?
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up



Registered: 01/24/13
Posts: 19,243
Loc: Babylon
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
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Re: Cloning from a non-trip shroom [Re: Juiceh]
#21979670 - 07/22/15 09:56 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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... and if a mushroom bruise insanely blue and you think that is actives, wouldn't that suggest that the mushroom has lost a lot of its actives?
never made much sense to me either
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Hari Krishroom
Small scale grower.


Registered: 03/09/15
Posts: 34
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
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Re: Cloning from a non-trip shroom [Re: spacechildo]
#21979785 - 07/22/15 10:26 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
spacechildo said: "drying agent"
They went in to a low heat fan assisted oven until they were dry to the touch. Then they went into a box with a bottom of calcium sulphate for a few days.
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up



Registered: 01/24/13
Posts: 19,243
Loc: Babylon
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
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probably never got completely dry then and you ate a lot of water weight.
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jesuisravi
The Old Noob



Registered: 06/24/15
Posts: 260
Loc: Midwest USA
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Quote:
Hari Krishroom said: I suffered an anticlimax this week when my first ever batch of shrooms failed to deliver ANY trip at all (2.5g dried, tea). That's one for "The Psychedelic Experience " board.
These were all grown using a MS syringe, Golden Teacher.
Anyway, one of the shrooms grew particularly quickly and large and I took the opportunity to try my first agar clone too (tissue -> Agar). The plate is now actually looking so well developed, which I'm mighty proud of.
However given that the source-shroom has no potency, can I now assume that my clone will be same? Question is do I continue to isolate my agar plate, or just ditch it and wait for my next spore batch?
Why not give it a chance? You have a nice agar plate going. You are proud of it. That is a good sign, IMHO. I bet it will reward you with a good trip, if you help it do what it obviously wants to. Of course, this is coming from a sentimental noob....
-------------------- Most of my beliefs I acquired from my father and from John Wayne, and anything that wasn't ultra tough and ultra cool was to me ultra embarrassing. In fact, I lived in a state of near continuous embarrassment, never measuring up to the ridiculous standards I had accepted without question, applied to a framework of expectations neither I nor anyone else could meet.--J C Amberchele almost nothing important that ever happens to you happens because you engineer it. Destiny has no beeper; destiny always leans trenchcoated out of an alley with some sort of 'psst' that you usually can't even hear because you're in such a rush to or from something important you've tried to engineer. ā ā David Foster Wallace, Infinite Jest
Edited by jesuisravi (07/22/15 12:26 PM)
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Aureus
Stranger
Registered: 07/04/15
Posts: 478
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Re: Cloning from a non-trip shroom [Re: Juiceh]
#21980591 - 07/22/15 03:07 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Juiceh said: There are non active mushrooms that bruise blue. You didn't see the actives, period.
Bruising blue is only a way to identify a POSSIBLY active mushroom, because that is a typical trait of the psychoactive mushrooms. But their are mushrooms that bruise blue that won't make you trip at all. Blueing is the flesh oxidising, like how the exposed inner flesh of an apple turns brown. If you look hard enough you will find people have had mushrooms that barely bruised and they tripped balls off them.
When are people going to get it through their heads that bruising does not indicate how potent a mushroom is?
I'm sorry, but the most potent mushrooms are the ones with the most intense brusings. You will never find an azurescens, panaeolus or penis envy that doesn't bruise dark blue.
Edited by Aureus (07/22/15 03:08 PM)
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Juiceh
Dabbing All Day



Registered: 09/25/12
Posts: 3,208
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Re: Cloning from a non-trip shroom [Re: Aureus]
#21980684 - 07/22/15 03:32 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Aureus said:
Quote:
Juiceh said: There are non active mushrooms that bruise blue. You didn't see the actives, period.
Bruising blue is only a way to identify a POSSIBLY active mushroom, because that is a typical trait of the psychoactive mushrooms. But their are mushrooms that bruise blue that won't make you trip at all. Blueing is the flesh oxidising, like how the exposed inner flesh of an apple turns brown. If you look hard enough you will find people have had mushrooms that barely bruised and they tripped balls off them.
When are people going to get it through their heads that bruising does not indicate how potent a mushroom is?
I'm sorry, but the most potent mushrooms are the ones with the most intense brusings. You will never find an azurescens, panaeolus or penis envy that doesn't bruise dark blue.
Did you even read what you quoted?
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/13802077#13802077 You are one of these noobs that RR mentions in that post.
Is a really deep blue bruising bolete gonna make you trip balls? Nope! It will probably poison you.
I've had PE from a MS grow that didn't bruise very dark, but they did bruise of course. They were the most intense ones I've had yet, a friend of mine couldn't handle them he flipped out and I wound up getting thrown through a few sheets of drywall trying to manage the situation. LoL! Good times!
Edited by Juiceh (07/22/15 03:48 PM)
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Buck513
Registered: 04/17/14
Posts: 5,682
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Re: Cloning from a non-trip shroom [Re: Aureus]
#21980958 - 07/22/15 04:41 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Aureus said: I'm sorry, but the most potent mushrooms are the ones with the most intense brusings. You will never find an azurescens, panaeolus or penis envy that doesn't bruise dark blue.
You don't know what you're talking about.
I've had mushrooms bruise heavily, and they weren't potent at all. I've also had mushrooms bruise practically none whatsoever, and they were potent as fuck.
-------------------- Fail to plan and you plan to fail. Enter the Ban Lottery
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up



Registered: 01/24/13
Posts: 19,243
Loc: Babylon
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
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Re: Cloning from a non-trip shroom [Re: Aureus]
#21980988 - 07/22/15 04:48 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
spacechildo said: ... and if a mushroom bruise insanely blue and you think that is actives, wouldn't that suggest that blue mushroom has lost a lot of its actives?
still wanna know..
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Aureus
Stranger
Registered: 07/04/15
Posts: 478
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Re: Cloning from a non-trip shroom [Re: Buck513]
#21981508 - 07/22/15 06:46 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'm yet to find a panaeolus cyanescens or a potent cubensis strain that doesn't bruise.

Edited by Aureus (07/22/15 06:57 PM)
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Buck513
Registered: 04/17/14
Posts: 5,682
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Re: Cloning from a non-trip shroom [Re: Aureus]
#21981671 - 07/22/15 07:27 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Uh..so? What's your point?
If you're still trying to prove that bruising is a sign of potency, you are incorrect. Everyone knows that.
-------------------- Fail to plan and you plan to fail. Enter the Ban Lottery
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Aureus
Stranger
Registered: 07/04/15
Posts: 478
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Re: Cloning from a non-trip shroom [Re: Juiceh]
#21981683 - 07/22/15 07:31 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/13802077#13802077 You are one of these noobs that RR mentions in that post.
Never accept anything as absolute truth kid.
Edited by Aureus (07/22/15 10:50 PM)
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Juiceh
Dabbing All Day



Registered: 09/25/12
Posts: 3,208
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Re: Cloning from a non-trip shroom [Re: Aureus]
#21983124 - 07/23/15 04:20 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Aureus said:
Quote:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/13802077#13802077 You are one of these noobs that RR mentions in that post.
Never accept anything as absolute truth kid.
Do you even read what you say? You are either an ignoramus, or a troll. You are the one accepting bruising being a sign of potency as an absolute truth when it is well known to be false. Usually people on here aren't this dense. Posting pictures of bruised mushrooms and repeating the same bs doesn't prove anything. All it does is prove what I said, bruising is a trait that can be used to identify possibly active mushrooms.
Again, bruising is only an indicator of a possibly active mushroom, because it is a trait of most psychoactive mushrooms. Bruising is not a reliable indicator of potency, this has been stated by people far more knowledgeable than you or I.
And again, there are non psychoactive mushrooms that bruise blue such as certain species of boletes, some of which are poisonous and others. This blows your theory completely out of the water and you have offered a big fat ZERO to refute that, Noob.
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blindingleaf
blue collar underworld


Registered: 07/19/13
Posts: 22,008
Loc: sub-surface unseen
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Re: Cloning from a non-trip shroom [Re: Juiceh]
#21983158 - 07/23/15 05:10 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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-------------------- A few thoughts on cultivation MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!! The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
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sheptownboi
Overlord



Registered: 07/13/15
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Loc: Australia
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Re: Cloning from a non-trip shroom [Re: Juiceh]
#21983166 - 07/23/15 05:14 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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-------------------- 'If you correct your mind, the rest of your life will fall into place' -Lao Tzu
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Aureus
Stranger
Registered: 07/04/15
Posts: 478
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Re: Cloning from a non-trip shroom [Re: Juiceh]
#21984842 - 07/23/15 01:30 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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You mad bro?
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tetherface
get in where you fit in



Registered: 10/05/14
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Re: Cloning from a non-trip shroom [Re: Aureus]
#21984956 - 07/23/15 01:54 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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seems to me that anyone that complains about potency always eats less than an eighth i know someone already stated to do more but IMO 3.5 g dry should be the minimum dose like RR says less than 5 grams of cubes is for school girls lol shit i eat a quarter almost every time i trip and from friends feedback my cubs are bomb but it totally could be genetics and not you or your grow either way have a good first trip
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Machiavelliavore
Vermiculite Hater



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Re: Cloning from a non-trip shroom [Re: tetherface]
#21985242 - 07/23/15 02:51 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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As others have said, genetics is the variable to look at assuming you did everything else right.
Personally I prefer 5g+. Keep isolating from that clone. Worst case you waste a few agar plates on a dud and get some experience working with agar. Even if the whole clone had bad genetics, there could be a single strain in there with good potency that was a low proportion in the mushroom.
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I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister. I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave. I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent. Triggered yet? Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."
No, this does not look right...
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Kizzle
Misanthrope


Registered: 08/30/11
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Quote:
There isn't any convincing evidence that anything other than genetics and treatment of the fruits after cultivation (quick drying) has anything to do with potency.
There's really isn't any evidence that drying has anything to do with potency either for that matter.
While I believe bruising is caused by psilocin degradation it could just as easily be sign of pH or enzyme content as potency as both will effect how and if psilocin degrades.
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