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OfflineDeviate
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Need help regarding my spiritual journey andf the Power I have discovered
    #21978601 - 07/22/15 01:19 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I have sort've trained myself to use entheogens where I am capable of communing with God in a very very powerful when I ingest them.

I am also at a point where I have enough spiritual knowledge and ability that I am capable of progressing spiritually without needing entheogens.

I wondering which path to take and mostly is it possible to do the spiritual journey too quick?

I am moving along so swiftly now that I barely recognize the person I was two weeks ago. I ain't even the same person at night who woke up in the mornibng, I am literally changing, my reality is changing, that quickly.

Now I am a bit lazy and so rather than spend hours in prayer or meditation to commune with God, I often just pop an entheogen or two and do it that way. My problem isn't that its not working, quite the opposite in fact. Its working so well I am nervous that I am losing something but not doing it the hard way.


Another thing. My soul is still in rebellion to God. I am wondering, is it a bad thing to pay God a visit and receive his holy body and blood into yourself while in rebellion? I mean, do I need to purify myself first somehow (which I have never had much success doing) or is it alright to force the evil out of me by bringing the fire of God within me through enthoegens, sacraments and prayer?

I know youre not supposed to receive communion unless youre in a state of grace but I tried for a long time to get myself into such a state and just couldn't do it. At the same time, I discovered it was possible to progress spiritually without being in a state of grace. I guess using some left handed path techniques along with some right handed. My hope was that I could get into a very high state and then jump from there into a state of grace but I am wondering now if I need more purfication first.


Edited by Deviate (07/22/15 01:28 AM)


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Need help regarding my spiritual journey andf the Power I have discovered [Re: Deviate]
    #21978626 - 07/22/15 01:32 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I guess to put my question in another way, the Philokalia says that the only safe way to God is the path of obedience, the narrow road Jesus spoke of. I haven't followed that path, because I found it too difficult to not sin. Yet despite that, I progressed spiritually anyway.

Now I am wondering, is it safe for me to return to home to heaven or do I need to learn to obey God and not sin first?


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Offlinedeff
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Re: Need help regarding my spiritual journey andf the Power I have discovered [Re: Deviate]
    #21979523 - 07/22/15 09:08 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

the obedience path you mention does not strike me as the most self-loving form of spirituality. i think that the style of spirituality that matt kahn teaches, such as his teaching that we should treat ourselves the way we would treat a child who is in pain, is most ideal. so in that vein i think it's always safe to return to heaven regardless of if we're still making mistakes (which is all 'sin' is, just mistakes :smile: )

as for entheogens, i don't know what's best for you with that. for me personally, i found that most of the insights and growth that psychedelics gave me didn't seem to last while sober to the same degree that spiritual practice while sober does. there was definitely a benefit to using them - i like what rama said about psychedelics - that they sort of break up our energetic patterns and then allow them to reassemble (hopefully in a better way). he said that entering samadhi through meditation does this too but in a much superior way, as sometimes people do not reassemble energetically from psychedelics properly, or totally - like is guaranteed with samadhi.

i think that you should be able to take a long break from all drugs (say like four months) and still be okay spiritually. if you find in that time you lose the insights and such that the psychedelics gave, then imo it's a sign that the insights were not lasting to begin with. i've found that the spiritual work i've done sober (i haven't used any drugs in several years) is continually present with me, and i have no desire or a feeling of needing psychedelics. when i did use them, i found that i was kinda craving the novelty and intensity of the experiences, whereas now i prefer the calmness, centeredness, simplicity, and clarity of sobriety.

wishing you all the best with your path Deviate :smile: :heart:


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Need help regarding my spiritual journey andf the Power I have discovered [Re: Deviate]
    #21979853 - 07/22/15 10:49 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

If you're still just popping entheogens as cavalierly as you expressed, you really ought to stop patting yourself on the shoulder so loudly. You are at a very self-conscious stage of change and it is another aspect of "spiritual materialism." "Left-handed path?" Really? Now you really sound inflated, O Master of the Universe. :lol: When you are just "cutting wood and carrying water," or more likely, going to work and to the supermarket, and when your prayer and meditation is so integrated into your nature that you would no sooner post about your spiritual hygiene than you would the new toothpaste you've tried, or your new brushing technique with your ergonomically designed toothbrush, patting yourself on the back won't even occur to you.

I say these not to be unkind, but to reflect what has occured to me. When the rush and novelty of spiritual practices wears off as they inevitably will, and they take on the same mundanity that oral hygiene assumes over time, then will come the test of authenticity of spiritual life. As BE HERE NOW points out, 'Some people need long hair and long fingernails to believe it's happening.' You might receive applause on a spirituality forum, but real life greatly outweighs the reality of this electronic crack into which we all peer. The majority of the world neither supports nor cares to hear about one's spiritual hygiene, since the multitudes are asleep. Discussing techniques and concepts can be educational fun, but given your contradictory statements on lines 2 and 5 of your post, it would be efficacious to stop and take stock of these proclamations as trying too hard to convince yourself. It's better to treat whatever progress you 'believe' is happening like looking at a beautiful woman on the street. A brief and chaste smile is better than a long and lascivious leer, for all involved. :wink:

BTW, grace is not something one gets themselves into. Grace refers to a divine benevolence extended to all, regardless of whether one deserves it. We don't deserve grace. It is freely given in the Christian idiom.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Need help regarding my spiritual journey andf the Power I have discovered [Re: Deviate]
    #21979890 - 07/22/15 11:02 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I don't want to offend you, Deviate, but there's an awful lot of ego, attachment and excess need in your post for someone who thinks they're spiritually "progressing," or centered with integrity.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Need help regarding my spiritual journey andf the Power I have discovered [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #21981498 - 07/22/15 06:44 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Sorry, I need to refrain from posting after a trip. I posted this after tripping on aminitas and having an amazing experience where I visited some Kingdom of Light, that is why I sound so inflated. I am not usually like that.

I do feel like I have progressed a tremendous amount, but that is only because I was in such a bad way before. From the perspective of where many of you are, I am probably still in a very bad way but for me compared to where I have been, I am doing incredibly well.

I have never been an emotionally healthy person, except maybe in early childhood before developing self-consciousness. Since I first developed self consciousness my life has mostly been a very confusing hell. Now I am stepping out of that hell, into what is probably still far below the state of well-being most non spiritual people experience on a daily bases, but which to me seems like incredible progress because I was so accustomed to being so utterly miserable constantly. Becoming less miserable seems like an incredible accomplishment to me and causes massive ego inflation, I guess. But that is all I have really done is become a lot less miserable than I used to be.


Edited by Deviate (07/22/15 06:51 PM)


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Need help regarding my spiritual journey andf the Power I have discovered [Re: Deviate]
    #21982700 - 07/23/15 12:12 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I think you are ardently seeking, so take heart if you recognize the inflation. Be like Daedalus, the wise father of Icarus who advised a middle course of flight - not too close to the Sun lest the heat melt one's wings, nor too close to the moisture of the sea, lest one's feathers become laden with moisture, and one likewise perish in the dark depths below. You are flying like Icarus, mythically speaking, so adjust yourself accordingly. Humility is the middle way between inflation and deflation.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Offlineblessed


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Re: Need help regarding my spiritual journey andf the Power I have discovered [Re: Deviate]
    #21983082 - 07/23/15 03:28 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
Another thing. My soul is still in rebellion to God. I am wondering, is it a bad thing to pay God a visit and receive his holy body and blood into yourself while in rebellion? I mean, do I need to purify myself first somehow (which I have never had much success doing) or is it alright to force the evil out of me by bringing the fire of God within me through enthoegens, sacraments and prayer?

I know youre not supposed to receive communion unless youre in a state of grace but I tried for a long time to get myself into such a state and just couldn't do it. At the same time, I discovered it was possible to progress spiritually without being in a state of grace. I guess using some left handed path techniques along with some right handed. My hope was that I could get into a very high state and then jump from there into a state of grace but I am wondering now if I need more purfication first.




Divate

I think in some way all people are in rebellion with God.  And I say this is because of our sinful nature.  You remember what Paul said about himself.  It's a fight within us all.  I think the point to remember is that God is greater then your heart soul and mind (whether they condemn you or not).  I don't think you can make yourself right or worthy of approaching God by first doing something then feeling right to seek or approach him.  I think it's a common thing people struggle with concerning taking communion, but as I once heard someone say, they ended up realizing that they will never be "right" and came to the table (so to speak) knowing that they are the sinner and that God is the Saviour/Healer.

Luke 18:10-14
“Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector.  The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector.  I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’  “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

“I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”


I think being honest with God is the key, he knows our heart already and being honest with him about it's condition can in fact be the very thing that allows God to work and heal you with your struggles.  It's like a child holding onto a broken toy.  Give the broken toy to God and let him (because he is able) fix it.

So you are ready now to approach God, but I say again be honest with him and talk to him as you would a best friend.  I have done this in my life and felt closer to God.  Also, a lady I know once shared with me how one day she let God really have it.  She said after that prayer, she felt a wonderful peace come over her.  I think what happened is that she told God what he already knew was in her heart (right or wrong) and that in her sharing with him her thoughts (something she was holding onto), that then could share his peace.

As for taking anything that gives you Spiritual Awareness, I say always make sure what you learn fit's with the word of God.  As I am sure I don't need to remind you that the Deceiver is always at work too.  Personally I don't think that mushrooms are "from the devil" but that does not mean he is unable to attack us while one is spiritual flying, so to speak.

About your last post I'm glad you have made progress from the your past.  I have come to believe that metaphorically speaking, God places each person on a mountain.  He is at the top and and we walk up the mountain towards him.  Some he places near the top and their journey is not too hard, others he places right down the bottom.  This would be the life full or hardship and trials.  So you see that being put lower down the mountain may in this life equal a harder life, but in fact it (can) allow for the most spiritual growth.

So take all you are (good and bad) and approach the one who can restore like no other :thumbup:

One more thing, I have many times cried out to God to fix me, and he never did.  Does that mean he is unable or doesn't want too?  No, there is something that I believe is vital in a walk with the God of the Bible.  Trust him, and I say that again, TRUST him.  For the very thing that I was crying out about for 20 years plus, God is now using in my life for a purpose.

Proverbs 3:5-9

Trust in the LORD with all your heart,
And lean not on your own understanding;

In all your ways acknowledge Him,
And He shall direct your paths.

Do not be wise in your own eyes;
Fear the LORD and depart from evil.

It will be health to your flesh,
And strength to your bones.

Honor the LORD with your possessions,
And with the firstfruits of all your increase;

All the best with the future :thumbup:


Edited by blessed (07/23/15 06:37 PM)


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OfflineSpiritualWarrior
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Re: Need help regarding my spiritual journey andf the Power I have discovered [Re: blessed]
    #21983290 - 07/23/15 06:31 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

If you're getting mad at God and taking communion... I'd recommend you stop and consider what you're doing with your religion. I would get the same way as well and sometmies would end up taking it, but it never did anything to advance my spirituality. But you should still take it regardless just don't get greedy or mad because its pointless. All you're doing is making yourself crazy. If your soul is in rebellion to God it may mean that you had an illusory idea of God and you want God to be something different than what you thought he was. Maybe you need to change your ideas about God, how you interpret him?

You should get it sorted out though dude, God is Trinity just remember that and everything else will fall into place. .. maybe.

Remember that we're not naturally spiritual people and spirituality is a tricky subject. If its making you feel crazy then that's not good either.


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InvisibleChronic7
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Re: Need help regarding my spiritual journey andf the Power I have discovered [Re: Deviate]
    #21984049 - 07/23/15 10:49 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
I have sort've trained myself to use entheogens where I am capable of communing with God in a very very powerful when I ingest them.

I am also at a point where I have enough spiritual knowledge and ability that I am capable of progressing spiritually without needing entheogens.

I wondering which path to take and mostly is it possible to do the spiritual journey too quick?






I feel the sooner you find true peace the better, although trying to rush to the goal may be self-defeating (not very peaceful)
With entheogens some people can see too much too fast and then it actually sets them back due to the trauma

Quote:


I am moving along so swiftly now that I barely recognize the person I was two weeks ago. I ain't even the same person at night who woke up in the mornibng, I am literally changing, my reality is changing, that quickly.





Rather than focus on what changes, i find there to be a much greater peace being aware of/as the changeless...

Quote:

Now I am a bit lazy and so rather than spend hours in prayer or meditation to commune with God, I often just pop an entheogen or two and do it that way. My problem isn't that its not working, quite the opposite in fact. Its working so well I am nervous that I am losing something but not doing it the hard way.




Leave no doubt... i see entheogens as a complement to sadhana, rather than sadhana as a complement to entheogens, i still make use of them but i have no doubt whatsoever that if i stopped taking entheogens i wouldn't be lost without them

Quote:


Another thing. My soul is still in rebellion to God. I am wondering, is it a bad thing to pay God a visit and receive his holy body and blood into yourself while in rebellion? I mean, do I need to purify myself first somehow (which I have never had much success doing) or is it alright to force the evil out of me by bringing the fire of God within me through enthoegens, sacraments and prayer?





Any purification from entheogens is temporary, if you're very experienced then you can maintain it even when it wears off, but it's not that common, Ram Dass talked about this in Be Here Now


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InvisiblePhotismos
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Re: Need help regarding my spiritual journey andf the Power I have discovered [Re: Deviate] * 1
    #21991565 - 07/24/15 06:00 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
I know youre not supposed to receive communion unless youre in a state of grace but I tried for a long time to get myself into such a state and just couldn't do it. At the same time, I discovered it was possible to progress spiritually without being in a state of grace. I guess using some left handed path techniques along with some right handed. My hope was that I could get into a very high state and then jump from there into a state of grace but I am wondering now if I need more purfication first.




My advice would be to familiarize yourself with a more jesuitical catechesis that doesn't accommodate this absurd degree of scrupulousness. The only circumstances that you may not take the Blessed Sacrament is if you have committed a sin of grave matter, with full knowledge of its gravity and with unfettered personal consent. It is exceedingly difficult for grave sin to be committed without some kind of psychological or socioeconomic bias, which would accurately reflect the CCC's definition of "complete consent". The Celebration of the Eucharist was meant to be a wholly mystical and universal sacrament that continuously abrogates the exoteric field of activity. In light of this, your "rebellion" against God is almost certainly imagined.


Edited by Photismos (07/24/15 06:01 PM)


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Need help regarding my spiritual journey andf the Power I have discovered [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #21997144 - 07/25/15 08:32 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
I think you are ardently seeking, so take heart if you recognize the inflation. Be like Daedalus, the wise father of Icarus who advised a middle course of flight - not too close to the Sun lest the heat melt one's wings, nor too close to the moisture of the sea, lest one's feathers become laden with moisture, and one likewise perish in the dark depths below. You are flying like Icarus, mythically speaking, so adjust yourself accordingly. Humility is the middle way between inflation and deflation.





Oh thank you Markos that is exactly what I needed to hear. That was one of my favorite myths when I was a child.

I now see that when i was approaching the sun, I would try to stay there and not leave the presence of the LORD but eventually it would feel like it was burning me. Now I see that God is so great, I need time in which to be sanctified. I cant do it all in one night.

On my last fly agaric trip, I became filled with the Holy Spirit to such a high degree that I realized in actuality there wasn't any "me" anywhere. There was only God appearing in form as me. And yet, there was still my unconscious mind and still identification with it and being filled with the Spirit like this was burning all my delusions at a very very rapid rate and yet i realized it was ok for me to return to delusion for a little bit in order so that I maintain some awareness of myself as individual being rather than becoming completely dissolved in God because in the final end I am going to become dissolved in God but remain fully functional as a human being as I understand it, like Jesus was.

I felt like it I just dissolve in God too quickly, I will lost some of my ability to function in the world of separation and duality because that world simply does not make sense from the point of view of there being nothing but the sacred fire of God, the almighty, ever present, and eternal LORD of all goodness.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Need help regarding my spiritual journey andf the Power I have discovered [Re: Deviate]
    #21997831 - 07/25/15 11:50 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
I think you are ardently seeking, so take heart if you recognize the inflation. Be like Daedalus, the wise father of Icarus who advised a middle course of flight - not too close to the Sun lest the heat melt one's wings, nor too close to the moisture of the sea, lest one's feathers become laden with moisture, and one likewise perish in the dark depths below. You are flying like Icarus, mythically speaking, so adjust yourself accordingly. Humility is the middle way between inflation and deflation.






On my last fly agaric trip, I became filled with the Holy Spirit to such a high degree that I realized in actuality there wasn't any "me" anywhere. There was only God appearing in form as me. And yet, there was still my unconscious mind and still identification with it and being filled with the Spirit like this was burning all my delusions at a very very rapid rate and yet i realized it was ok for me to return to delusion for a little bit in order so that I maintain some awareness of myself as individual being rather than becoming completely dissolved in God because in the final end I am going to become dissolved in God but remain fully functional as a human being as I understand it, like Jesus was.

I felt like it I just dissolve in God too quickly, I will lost some of my ability to function in the world of separation and duality because that world simply does not make sense from the point of view of there being nothing but the sacred fire of God, the almighty, ever present, and eternal LORD of all goodness.




I agree with everything you wrote above except the bolded portion. I would say that Eternal Life is the province of God, not of human beinghood which must perish in its dissolution in Eternity. My hope is that there will be the Awakening that the Eternal has always been our Real Nature as the dream of this life dissolves just as our ordinary dreams do upon awakening from sleep. Eternity is not time, there is no duration, there is a timeless moment that defies comprehension. Without space-time, extension and duration, there cannot be form. Eternity is incomprehensible and does not admit of vain imaginings. It is best to admit that it is Mystery. :shrug:


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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