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InvisibleMaximillion
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Registered: 07/21/15
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Question about substrate ingredient
    #21975068 - 07/21/15 10:25 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

There is a bag of "Starter Mix" by American Seed.
It's ingredients are:
  • Sphagnum Peat
  • Horticulture Vermiculite
  • Perlite
  • Wetting Agent and Lime for PH Balance


I was wondering if this mix would make a decent substrate for a bulk grown.
If so could one Pressure cook this in Qt size jars for sterilization @ 15psi for 90min?


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Offlinetetherface
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Re: Question about substrate ingredient [Re: Maximillion]
    #21975088 - 07/21/15 10:33 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

i would think it would make a better casing than a bulk sub but who knows either way i would never sterilize bulk only pasteurize that shit or your asking for trouble.....


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OfflinePsilosoulful

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Re: Question about substrate ingredient [Re: Maximillion]
    #21975099 - 07/21/15 10:37 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

That mix is more suited for a casing layer, as you want a non-nutrious layer to provide a microclimate to initiate pin formation. And I would leave out that perlite, that is for fruiting chambers, and is never used in casing layers.

Also, cubes don't necessarily need a casing layer to fruit, it's just an extra step. If you're growing pans, then a casing layer is a must.

If you want a good bulk substrate mix, go out and get some coir, hpoo, verm, and a bit of gypsum to balance it out. Make sure to pasteurize them properly. I've always used Frank's Pasteurization tek, and it works great! http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17246844/fpart/all/vc/1


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: Question about substrate ingredient [Re: tetherface]
    #21975111 - 07/21/15 10:42 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

tetherface said:
i would think it would make a better casing than a bulk sub




:whathesaid:

peat,verm,lime = your best casing materials.


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OfflinePsilosoulful

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Re: Question about substrate ingredient [Re: spacechildo]
    #21975132 - 07/21/15 10:49 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Also, leave out the wetting agent, that's not necessary. Keep the mix simple, and organic, if possible. :thumbup:


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Invisibleblindingleaf
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Re: Question about substrate ingredient [Re: Psilosoulful]
    #21975183 - 07/21/15 11:05 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

the wetting agent is fine.  it helps to distribute the water evenly when u mix it with the peat.  u don't need it, but it doesn't harm anything.


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InvisibleMaximillion
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Re: Question about substrate ingredient [Re: blindingleaf]
    #21975241 - 07/21/15 11:19 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Thank you guys! So what should one use as a bulk substrate? Also Hpoo is out of the question. The pantry contains Vermiculite, Coco Coir, Flax Seed, BRF, Spent Coffee, WBS, and ?Rabbit food pellets?(I think that snuck in here)
What substrate would be best mixed when limited to those ingredients.


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OfflinePsilosoulful

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Re: Question about substrate ingredient [Re: Maximillion]
    #21975264 - 07/21/15 11:25 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I would go for the vermiculite, coir, and spent coffee grounds (that was what I used for my first bulk grow, btw). Make sure you pasteurize it well, coffee is known to contaminate if sterilized.


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: Question about substrate ingredient [Re: Psilosoulful]
    #21975311 - 07/21/15 11:41 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I'd just stick to coir+verm until you get some experience.
anything else requires proper pasteurization which is just another step to fuck up when you're new.
start with focusing on producing clean spawn. and learn how to dial in tubs. that's what really makes or breaks a good grow.


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InvisibleMaximillion
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Re: Question about substrate ingredient [Re: Psilosoulful]
    #21975314 - 07/21/15 11:42 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Psilosoulful said:
I would go for the vermiculite, coir, and spent coffee grounds (that was what I used for my first bulk grow, btw). Make sure you pasteurize it well, coffee is known to contaminate if sterilized.



Thank you again for the help :laugh: One was contemplating adding maybe 10% Gypsum to the mixture as well as probably 25% spent coffee, 50% Vermiculite, and 15% Coir, does that sound like a plausible mixture? I feel like I should be using more Coir but after reading through the forums it seems this would be the most accurate ratio...


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InvisibleMaximillion
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Re: Question about substrate ingredient [Re: spacechildo]
    #21975332 - 07/21/15 11:48 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

spacechildo said:
I'd just stick to coir verm until you get some experience.
anything else requires proper pasteurization which is just another step to fuck up when you're new.
start with focusing on producing clean spawn. and learn how to dial in tubs. that's what really makes or breaks a good grow.



One has produced clean spawn quite frequently :smile: In fact one has never even seen what contamination looks like in person.


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: Question about substrate ingredient [Re: Maximillion]
    #21975349 - 07/21/15 11:54 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

maybe you need to look better? :tongue2:

nah, but truth is most "healthy" grows here have varying amounts of bacteria in them.
no bacteria usually = one hell of a grow.
there's easily an oz or 2 extra to pick from a 66qt tub that was perfectly dialed in for max FAE
than from a tub that looked good but still couldhave had better fae.

if you're confident in your pasteurization skills by all means just go for it! :thumbup:


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Invisibleblindingleaf
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Re: Question about substrate ingredient [Re: Maximillion]
    #21975372 - 07/21/15 12:01 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Maximillion said:One has produced clean spawn quite frequently :smile: In fact one has never even seen what contamination looks like in person.




beginners luck is a curse


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InvisibleMaximillion
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Re: Question about substrate ingredient [Re: spacechildo]
    #21975386 - 07/21/15 12:09 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

FAE has something to do with the airflow and humidity correct? This is my first attempt at pasteurizing a bulk substrate. All of my previous experiments were fruited directly off the cakes in a fruiting chamber. I imagine I'll need to pasteurize the substrate, mix in probably 1qt for every 1/2pint of spawn inside my tubs. Then seal up the tub fairly well to keep the CO2 inside. I'll cover up the tubs to keep them extra dark and once they reach 100% colonization I was going to introduce each tub to its own separate fruiting chambers. All equipped with humidity gauges, temperature strips, and plenty of holes to allow fresh air flow.


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: Question about substrate ingredient [Re: Maximillion]
    #21975389 - 07/21/15 12:11 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

are you using cakes as spawn and not grains?

practice pasteurizing a coir/verm mix first, it doesnt care if you fuck up the temps.
once you find out how to keep temps between 140-160 you can pasteurize any material!

fae is fresh air exchange.


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InvisibleMaximillion
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Re: Question about substrate ingredient [Re: spacechildo]
    #21975407 - 07/21/15 12:16 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

My plan was to use cakes as my spawn. I figured using the standard pf tek would be fine for colonizing my spawn.


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InvisibleMaximillion
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Re: Question about substrate ingredient [Re: Maximillion]
    #21975439 - 07/21/15 12:26 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

And thank you, I will definitely practice maintaining that temperature. How long does it take to pasteurize and I just use a bucket for that? My work environment is very sanitary, so is the rule of thumb to bring substrate up to 140-160 degrees, and should I maintain that temperature or will it be considered pasteurized after it reaches the temperature range?


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Re: Question about substrate ingredient [Re: Maximillion]
    #21975461 - 07/21/15 12:32 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Maximillion said:
And thank you, I will definitely practice maintaining that temperature. How long does it take to pasteurize and I just use a bucket for that? My work environment is very sanitary, so is the rule of thumb to bring substrate up to 140-160 degrees, and should I maintain that temperature or will it be considered pasteurized after it reaches the temperature range?




1hour - 90mins will do, once the middle of the substrate is 140degrees. 

I have found pasteurizing substrates in autoclave bags inside my pressure cooker works well for maintaining the correct temperatures.


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InvisibleMaximillion
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Re: Question about substrate ingredient [Re: shroomyaxn]
    #21975490 - 07/21/15 12:41 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

shroomyaxn said:
Quote:

Maximillion said:
And thank you, I will definitely practice maintaining that temperature. How long does it take to pasteurize and I just use a bucket for that? My work environment is very sanitary, so is the rule of thumb to bring substrate up to 140-160 degrees, and should I maintain that temperature or will it be considered pasteurized after it reaches the temperature range?




1hour - 90mins will do, once the middle of the substrate is 140degrees. 

I have found pasteurizing substrates in autoclave bags inside my pressure cooker works well for maintaining the correct temperatures.



Sweet, so do you think if I fill up 1 quart jars with substrate and Used the PC that it would be sufficiently pasteurized? As my recipe calls for 1qt per 1/2 pint spawn I figured it would be simple for me to just separate my bulk substrate into separate quart sized jars for a more reliable pasteurization, and more reliable ratios.


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OfflinePsilosoulful

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Re: Question about substrate ingredient [Re: Maximillion]
    #21975540 - 07/21/15 12:54 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Maximillion said:
Quote:

shroomyaxn said:
Quote:

Maximillion said:
And thank you, I will definitely practice maintaining that temperature. How long does it take to pasteurize and I just use a bucket for that? My work environment is very sanitary, so is the rule of thumb to bring substrate up to 140-160 degrees, and should I maintain that temperature or will it be considered pasteurized after it reaches the temperature range?




1hour - 90mins will do, once the middle of the substrate is 140degrees. 

I have found pasteurizing substrates in autoclave bags inside my pressure cooker works well for maintaining the correct temperatures.



Sweet, so do you think if I fill up 1 quart jars with substrate and Used the PC that it would be sufficiently pasteurized? As my recipe calls for 1qt per 1/2 pint spawn I figured it would be simple for me to just separate my bulk substrate into separate quart sized jars for a more reliable pasteurization, and more reliable ratios.



Yes that would work as well, make sure to have a meat thermometer in one of the jars to monitor the internal temp. A digital one would work the best, as you would be able to put the lid on the PC and monitor the internal temp from outside while maintaining the temp a lot easier. It takes a bit of practice to get the temp within that range and have it stay there. Just follow Frank's Pasteurization tek and you should be able to do it properly. Good luck.


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InvisibleMaximillion
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Re: Question about substrate ingredient [Re: Psilosoulful]
    #21975675 - 07/21/15 01:31 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

You're the best! Thank you guys! I'll let everyone know how things went later on down the road.


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InvisibleMaximillion
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Re: Question about substrate ingredient [Re: Maximillion]
    #22583449 - 11/27/15 06:05 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Thank you guys for your answers. This is my latest monotub. Any comments?


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OfflinePsilosoulful

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Re: Question about substrate ingredient [Re: Maximillion]
    #22585993 - 11/28/15 11:39 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

More FAE


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InvisibleMaximillion
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Re: Question about substrate ingredient [Re: Psilosoulful]
    #22586024 - 11/28/15 11:45 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)


How is this? I added six more holes and lossened all the polyfill. I know my holes are small but I have more of them to make up for it.


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OfflinePsilosoulful

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Re: Question about substrate ingredient [Re: Maximillion]
    #22586056 - 11/28/15 11:58 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Those holes are too small. You should've made it into a monotub. A set of 1 1/2" holes on the long sides, and one on each short side. Also, the substrate is very thin, so it'll be prone to drying out more quickly. Make sure to keep up with the misting schedule.


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InvisibleMaximillion
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Re: Question about substrate ingredient [Re: Psilosoulful]
    #22586075 - 11/28/15 12:02 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

so I didn't actually create a monotub? Cause I've been treating like such. I have not opened it. And it has plenty of moisture. I can see it built up on the walls a little bit. Though I recently added more FAEs to the tub, so I don't know how that will affect the humidity just yet.


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OfflinePsilosoulful

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Re: Question about substrate ingredient [Re: Maximillion]
    #22586103 - 11/28/15 12:12 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

That's the problem man, you can't treat it as a monotub because it is lacking the proper hole setup. The stagnant air near the surface has no way to be circulated, so pin formations will likely abort. Next time follow a proper Monotub tek


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Re: Question about substrate ingredient [Re: Psilosoulful]
    #22586117 - 11/28/15 12:14 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

would it be possible to just add larger holes into my current tub?


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OfflinePsilosoulful

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Re: Question about substrate ingredient [Re: Maximillion]
    #22586142 - 11/28/15 12:19 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Yes that'll increase your FAE. Get a hole saw and carefully drill 1 1/2" holes near the substrate and on the shorter sides near the top. Then stuff with polyfill. Follow the tek I linked in my previous post. :goodluck:


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