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OfflineSpiritualWarrior
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Re: Sold Beer to Undercover Need Legal Advice [Re: Malcolm_Xtasy]
    #22045025 - 08/04/15 10:42 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Malcolm_Xtasy said:
Quote:

SpiritualWarrior said:
Sheeeit, I can get another job where I card of handle cash, its not hard and I kinda liked doing it before.




:justno:




Hey man you never know I could get good as fuck at doing that...I was doing pretty good its just the bitch (21 year old assistant manager) I worked with taught me how to not card people. "What's your DOB?" Yeah, that's really something you want your complete newb cashier to know how to do. Even if ppl come in trying to "swing on you" for asking for their ID, which is why she said to do that sometimes. Still, she needed to get it through my head not to do that.... Feels bad maaan. :feelsbadman:


Edited by SpiritualWarrior (08/04/15 10:44 PM)


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OfflineSpiritualWarrior
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Re: Sold Beer to Undercover Need Legal Advice [Re: SpiritualWarrior]
    #22046773 - 08/05/15 11:23 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Dangit Bobby... I just got a summons for a class 3 misdemeanor. Shiaaat. I'm gonna jump the state lines, screw this .

It says I am to appear for reasons that, "you did unlawfully sell an alcoholic beverage to an individual who was less than 21 years of age and at the time of the sale did not require the individual to present bona fide evidence of legal age indicating that the individual is 21 years of age or older."

Here's what an online thing says about it,

What happens if a store sells beer to someone under age 21?
Under Virginia law, the clerk (seller/server) and the establishment with the license to sell alcohol (licensee) are penalized. The seller/server can receive up to $2,500 fine and/or up to 12 months in jail. For a first time offense, a licensee can be penalized up to $2,000 and/or have their ABC license revoked. (Code of Virginia §§ 4.1-304 and 4.1-305)

If someone sells alcohol to a person under the age of 21 and does not require that individual to provide bona fide evidence of legal age, the seller will be guilty of a Class 3 misdemeanor. (Code of Virginia § 4.1-304 (B))




Then about a class 3 mindemeanor:

Class 3 and 4 Misdemeanors

Class 3 and 4 misdemeanors, the least serious misdemeanors, are punishable by fines, but no jail time. A Class 3 misdemeanor is punishable by a fine of up to $500. A Class 4 misdemeanor is punishable by a fine of up to $250. (Va. Ann. Code § 18.2-11.)

A first conviction for public intoxication is an example of a Class 4 misdemeanor. For more information on this crime, see Virginia Public Intoxication Laws.





What would you guys do should i get a lawyer or have a court appointed one? Do I deny the charges? Please guilty, not guilty? PLease help.


They "know" I sold underage beer without carding only cause the stupid cameras. Those aren't infallible proof.


Edited by SpiritualWarrior (08/05/15 11:27 AM)


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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Re: Sold Beer to Undercover Need Legal Advice [Re: SpiritualWarrior]
    #22047288 - 08/05/15 12:53 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I'm not sure how it works, but if you are able to afford a lawyer, there is a chance they won't give you a court appointed one as I think there are some standards as to who qualifies and who does not qualify for a PDA (pub defense atty).

If you have any money or anyone who could help you out, access to any credit, I would probably get a lawyer ASAP.  Especially since this is your first time around it will really help you to have someone there who is available to answer your questions in a timely manner, explain the whole process to you, as well as get you the best deal possible one would hope.  I would expect to pay up to a couple thousand and plan to plead to the best possible deal unless your lawyer tells you you have a case.  They should be able to explain to you once they see the police report and talk to you what the best option is, and their logic behind it.

That is where having a good lawyer comes in, and that doesn't always mean a more expensive lawyer, but do your research and talk to people you trust too see if there is anyone in your area who has a good reputation for helping people out.  Don't just go with the first one you can find go with the one that makes you feel confident regarding your case.  You might not get out of it but part of lawyering is working the people in the courthouse to get the best possible deal.  It's totally unfair actually but that's a big part of our legal system, so take advantage while you can and don't let a little money now get in the way of having the best possible outcome in the future.

Jumping state lines could be about the worst thing you could do.  At least now you have a good excuse to plead the 5th if they were to call you as a witness, so forget telling the truth or telling lies to try and weasel your way out, from here on out it's say nothing except to a lawyer.

Good luck.  A PDA  can provide the same thing but they're going to have way less time available, are used to handling clients that get shit on by the courts their entire life, and you don't really have options so you are stuck with who you get.


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OfflineSpiritualWarrior
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Re: Sold Beer to Undercover Need Legal Advice [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #22047310 - 08/05/15 12:58 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Dude yeah, I hear ya. You make it sound worse than it is. Selling without carding is a class 3 misdemeanor, the same as fishing without a license. I don't think I need to shell out thousands of dollars for a lawyer xD

Really a PDA is all I can have, I can't afford a lawyer. I'm going to speak with a private lawyer tho Friday over the phone for a conference call.


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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Re: Sold Beer to Undercover Need Legal Advice [Re: SpiritualWarrior]
    #22047501 - 08/05/15 01:46 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

If you're going to take it to trial is pretty much going to cost you alot, and in my mind it would be worth a couple thousand to not have that on your record.  If you could get a CWOF judgement or your state's equivalent you could probably get it expunged at some point and it would not come up as a conviction as long as you complete your end of the deal.  You should be taking this seriously, but it sounds like you're handling it the best you can so good luck.

If you feel that the state's case is strong enough that they're definitely getting a conviction, a good lawyer still helps unless you luck out and get an exceedingly fair judge, and considering how complicated this case is it seems possible to me that a good lawyer might be able to find an angle to at least give you leverage in coming to a deal with the prosecuting atty.  Maybe you could even work out a deal where you testify in the fraud case to drop the charges against you, but it sounds like they don't really need you for that.

In any case don't help them by giving them information.  Don't say anything without a lawyer, and if your PD tells you to talk without giving you something in return in the form of a better deal or dropped charges, find a better lawyer.


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OfflineSpiritualWarrior
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Re: Sold Beer to Undercover Need Legal Advice [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #22047698 - 08/05/15 02:32 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

The cop seemed to communicate to me that I could get it expunged in 12 months I just don't remember the exact details. I think I need to call him I just forgot his phone number.

EDIT: I tried to call his cell phone which he gave me but I didn't leave a message... I just don't know if its a good idea to talk to him again about it since he's the one who pressed the charges.


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Re: Sold Beer to Undercover Need Legal Advice [Re: SpiritualWarrior]
    #22047736 - 08/05/15 02:37 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

SpiritualWarrior said:
What would you guys do should i get a lawyer or have a court appointed one? Do I deny the charges? Please guilty, not guilty? PLease help.





No soup for you. You don't listen and tell lies.

:whippedcreamhead:


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Re: Sold Beer to Undercover Need Legal Advice [Re: SpiritualWarrior] * 1
    #22047748 - 08/05/15 02:39 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

SpiritualWarrior said:
The cop seemed to communicate to me that I could get it expunged in 12 months I just don't remember the exact details. I think I need to call him I just forgot his phone number.

EDIT: I tried to call his cell phone which he gave me but I didn't leave a message... I just don't know if its a good idea to talk to him again about it since he's the one who pressed the charges.






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OfflineSpiritualWarrior
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Re: Sold Beer to Undercover Need Legal Advice [Re: Sun King]
    #22049267 - 08/05/15 06:34 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah, I know, its bullshit. All I asked the cop what they will do and he was nice enough to give me the DA's number to ask more about the case.

They're not trying to get me with this. Its not gonna stay on my record.


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Re: Sold Beer to Undercover Need Legal Advice [Re: SpiritualWarrior]
    #22049517 - 08/05/15 07:05 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

You will end up on death row.


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OfflineSpiritualWarrior
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Re: Sold Beer to Undercover Need Legal Advice [Re: Sun King]
    #22049714 - 08/05/15 07:35 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Fuck, finally. I'l be glad to leave this shitty planet.

I'm kidding.


Edited by SpiritualWarrior (08/05/15 07:41 PM)


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OfflineSpiritualWarrior
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Re: Sold Beer to Undercover Need Legal Advice [Re: SpiritualWarrior]
    #22072480 - 08/10/15 04:27 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I got a summons for the charge as well as a subpeona for being the witness to larceny of a credit card. My question to you all is whether I should get a court appointed lawyer or shell out the 500 dollars for a private one. I have the 500 dollars its just I'm kind of cheap and I've gotten out of charges before with a court appointed lawyer because he was really good... What do you guys think? I have around 3900 in my bank.


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InvisibleAstral Pain
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Re: Sold Beer to Undercover Need Legal Advice [Re: SpiritualWarrior]
    #22072788 - 08/10/15 05:45 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

SpiritualWarrior said:
How in the world will that even happen dude I have no criminal record, I haven't said anything incriminating, and they want me to testify against the person for credit card larceny. I know lying to the cops is wrong. Sometimes I just get in my little world where I think its okay to do so. I haven't actually lied to anyone but you guys here. I spoke to the cops one time and told them the honest truth...




yeah dude, you'll be fine. The cops love you for being their go to guy for this case. Don't worry about a thing. Cops are totally cool and on your side. Just make sure you bring the hammer down on those little criminal punks. You the man.  :highfive:


--------------------
"I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out"               
                -Bill Hicks-

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OfflineSpiritualWarrior
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Re: Sold Beer to Undercover Need Legal Advice [Re: Astral Pain]
    #22072950 - 08/10/15 06:20 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Obviously someone had a "bad time" with popos ^^^

If you sell illegal drugs and get caught with them, you're gonna have a bad time



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Offlineoccollegeboi
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Re: Sold Beer to Undercover Need Legal Advice [Re: SpiritualWarrior]
    #22074077 - 08/10/15 10:19 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I used to work at 7-11. Didn't you watch training videos when you got hired on? I used to card EVERYONE unless they were a regular customer. I hate to be the one to give you your harsh reality...but...you fucked up, BIG TIME. You should have carded, and you should have refused to sell alcohol to someone who YOU thought was under the influence. This is NOT between the employer and the cops, this is between YOU and the cops.


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OfflineShroomslip
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Re: Sold Beer to Undercover Need Legal Advice [Re: occollegeboi]
    #22074086 - 08/10/15 10:21 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Haven't you been paying attention? His manager told him not to card people so it doesn't matter. It's on the store, not him. And besides the guy was using a STOLEN CREDIT CARD to buy the alcohol anyways. That makes him automatically not at fault.


--------------------
With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way.
I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today.
Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear.
I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear.


You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being
With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline


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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Re: Sold Beer to Undercover Need Legal Advice [Re: Shroomslip]
    #22074139 - 08/10/15 10:31 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Naw he saw a manager bypass the date he's required to enter for alcohol, so he did the same, but I seriously doubt his manager told him this was ok.  Some stores will do this for me, not that I really mind being carded, but I am 30 years old and a regular customer not some drunk kid with a stolen credit card.

It sounds like he was either intimidated or captivated by the attention, and doesn't take his work seriously.  Not many people do take their work seriously in retail :shrug: they're also a pretty miserable bunch, but if he ever wants to move up from that he can't be fuxxing around.

He definitely fucked up in that he neglected to prevent the fraud, as well as selling liquor to underage.  It isn't that hard to look at an ID and see if it matches the name on the card.  If it is a credit sale they are at least supposed to make sure the signature matches the one on the card, but that was not in OP's skill set apparently even though it's pretty much the only reason they are hiring people to run the register.


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OfflineSpiritualWarrior
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Re: Sold Beer to Undercover Need Legal Advice [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #22075945 - 08/11/15 11:11 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Its done by machines there is no signature that you see and you don't even see the card. Also it was a debit card, he knew the pin number.

They really don't train you for shit there tho, not even how to run the register. They just expect you to know how to do it without them telling you.

But anyways, you guys think I need a hire a lawyer? Will it look better for me to have one or will I look guilty? I think I'll just look poor if I have a PDA. But isn't poor mean you're bad?


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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Re: Sold Beer to Undercover Need Legal Advice [Re: SpiritualWarrior]
    #22075982 - 08/11/15 11:20 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Your thinking is all screwed up.  You should absolutely hire a lawyer at this point if you can afford it, but not for that reason, but because you want the best defense possible and paid lawyers are generally able to devote more time to their clients.

If it actually was a debit and they entered the pin you might be off the hook, at least you should be in my mind, but that is a lawyer question.  See why you need one now?  Because nobody is going to figure this all out for you on the internet for free.

Hiring a lawyer might even result in the whole thing getting dropped, though that is entirely up to what is actually happening here, which is still unclear.


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Invisiblesh4d0ws
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Re: Sold Beer to Undercover Need Legal Advice [Re: SpiritualWarrior]
    #22076037 - 08/11/15 11:34 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

You must be in the USA.

Do undercovers there literally have the time to do stupid busts like this that waste their time?

They must.

No wonder other crime is so prominent...that is just plain fucked up. Seriously, they're paying someone to do that?

Teens and underagers will always be able to get booze, whether from a parent, a store owner who doesn't care (or employee, in your case), their sister, their brother, their older friend, their older partner...

What a waste of fucking time. So much :facepalm:


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Edited by sh4d0ws (08/11/15 11:36 AM)


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