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Offlineoppsicle
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Metabolites...?
    #21970531 - 07/20/15 12:25 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

These are metabolites rather than a bum cake...right?



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Invisibled0urd3n
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Re: Metabolites...? [Re: oppsicle]
    #21970576 - 07/20/15 12:41 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

That is bacteria. Throw it away.


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Offlineoppsicle
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Re: Metabolites...? [Re: d0urd3n]
    #21970610 - 07/20/15 12:54 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Are these bad too??



Little bit of color but not really liquidy...

These have been sitting with no problems for months, what could have happened?


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Offlineoppsicle
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Re: Metabolites...? [Re: oppsicle]
    #21970615 - 07/20/15 12:55 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Also, it's not possible to cut off the part of the cake that's untouched by the bacteria?  I'm going to spawn to coir, I would think that would give it a decent chance....


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Invisibleinsanemike

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Re: Metabolites...? [Re: oppsicle]
    #21970616 - 07/20/15 12:55 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

If it's creamy like melting ice cream, it's bacteria.


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: Metabolites...? [Re: insanemike]
    #21970667 - 07/20/15 01:10 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

insanemike said:
If it's creamy like melting ice cream, it's bacteria.




Did you ever stop to think some poor bystander might've been eating ice cream when they read that?  No, of course not.  :lol:

That's totally what his pics look like though, can't blame the imagery.


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Invisibleinsanemike

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Re: Metabolites...? [Re: Inocuole]
    #21970681 - 07/20/15 01:14 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

:lol: atleast I didn't describe what it could of smelled like.


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Offlineoppsicle
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Re: Metabolites...? [Re: insanemike]
    #21970703 - 07/20/15 01:21 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Other two cakes...? Salvage...? Anyone?


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Invisibleinsanemike

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Re: Metabolites...? [Re: oppsicle]
    #21970721 - 07/20/15 01:26 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Every jar has atleast a small amount of bacteria in them, it's inevitable. Every pic you have posted looks just the way I described. You can attempt to grow them out but if I were you, I would toss them and start over.


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Re: Metabolites...? [Re: insanemike]
    #21970730 - 07/20/15 01:28 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Cakes? I see bags of grains. And they look fucked. :frown:


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Invisibleinsanemike

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Re: Metabolites...? [Re: Juiceh]
    #21970744 - 07/20/15 01:30 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I was a little confused when he stated "cakes", also.


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Offlineoppsicle
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Re: Metabolites...? [Re: insanemike]
    #21970766 - 07/20/15 01:34 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

It's a cake of grains that happen to be in a bag. Regardless of proper terminology they are cake like objects. lol. but yeah they're 6 cups each so I just lost so many shrooms. I think I'll probably try it for posterity's sake.  Holy lame though. Never had a contam before, I wonder if my chamber slipped over 81 degrees at some point...


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Invisibleinsanemike

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Re: Metabolites...? [Re: oppsicle]
    #21970777 - 07/20/15 01:37 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Are you starting with a clean culture on agar before going to grain? Vendor spore syringes, atleast for me, always have had a high endospore count.


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Re: Metabolites...? [Re: insanemike]
    #21970786 - 07/20/15 01:38 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I don't think they'd be endospores if they were in a syringe, just... regular spores, or actual live bacteria.  Aren't endospores something that's left in organic material after they've already been contaminated long enough for a reproduction cycle to occur?  Maybe I have no idea..


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Offlineoppsicle
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Re: Metabolites...? [Re: Inocuole]
    #21970876 - 07/20/15 02:05 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Boy I sure would have no idea where to get a clean agar culture ha.  I've always gotten syringes from ralphsters.

I just broke all of them open, one was only on the very bottom so I cut off maybe 1/3" and I'm going to spawn that one to coir (PE6).  The other two I cut in half, the top halves I'm going to spawn to coir, and the bottom halves I sliced off all offending areas, and I'm just going to fruit them like a cake to see what happens.

Wish me luck!


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Invisibleinsanemike

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Re: Metabolites...? [Re: Inocuole]
    #21970939 - 07/20/15 02:18 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Inocuole said:
I don't think they'd be endospores if they were in a syringe, just... regular spores, or actual live bacteria.  Aren't endospores something that's left in organic material after they've already been contaminated long enough for a reproduction cycle to occur?  Maybe I have no idea..




I'll take your word for it. I really don't know. It could also be op's pc times. How long are you cooking those bags of grain for?


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Offlineoppsicle
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Re: Metabolites...? [Re: insanemike]
    #21970966 - 07/20/15 02:22 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

bought from midwest grow kits.  Those bags collectively will be my third-ish grow ever. in the future i think I'll make my own brf jars and spawn those to coir


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Re: Metabolites...? [Re: oppsicle]
    #21970972 - 07/20/15 02:24 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

also all of them smelled like fresh mushrooms.  when i stuck my nose about an inch from the very worst spot there was a slight odor difference, but just on the worst part of the worst bag


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OfflineKizzle
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Re: Metabolites...? [Re: oppsicle]
    #21972262 - 07/20/15 06:43 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

oppsicle said:
These are metabolites rather than a bum cake...right?





Could be metabolites but metabolites before full colonization are a sign of contamination not to mention all the slime on that uncolonized substrate.


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Invisibleinsanemike

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Re: Metabolites...? [Re: Inocuole]
    #21974797 - 07/21/15 09:04 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Inocuole said:
I don't think they'd be endospores if they were in a syringe, just... regular spores, or actual live bacteria.  Aren't endospores something that's left in organic material after they've already been contaminated long enough for a reproduction cycle to occur?  Maybe I have no idea..




You maybe right about the endospores or lack thereof.  I'm not really that well versed in those studies but when I stopped shooting up jars with spore syringes, bacteria problems took a dramatic turn for the better. After increasing pc times from 90 minutes to 120 minutes, the combination of the two changes, have really increased success rate.

Op, your first mistake was buying that over priced grow kit. If you put the hours equal to the dollars you spent on that kit into reading and learning how to cultivate, you would be a lot better off.


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: Metabolites...? [Re: insanemike]
    #21974862 - 07/21/15 09:28 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

There's a chance the syringe will have endospores, just like any other kind of spore. Bacterium, spores and endospores can get under the cap through us handling them, dust, or whatever. However in the end, whatever spores end up there, will have a good chance to be seen on agar :smile:.

Regardless, you got bacteria somewhere down the line op.


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Re: Metabolites...? [Re: insanemike]
    #21974899 - 07/21/15 09:41 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

insanemike said:
Quote:

Inocuole said:
I don't think they'd be endospores if they were in a syringe, just... regular spores, or actual live bacteria.  Aren't endospores something that's left in organic material after they've already been contaminated long enough for a reproduction cycle to occur?  Maybe I have no idea..




You maybe right about the endospores or lack thereof.  I'm not really that well versed in those studies but when I stopped shooting up jars with spore syringes, bacteria problems took a dramatic turn for the better. After increasing pc times from 90 minutes to 120 minutes, the combination of the two changes, have really increased success rate.

Op, your first mistake was buying that over priced grow kit. If you put the hours equal to the dollars you spent on that kit into reading and learning how to cultivate, you would be a lot better off.





Ha like I said man, third grow ever, gonna do my own brf jars in the future.  You gotta get started somewhere! I don't know anyone else, my only teacher was google.  I don't regret buying from midwest, their grains are high quality and it was a really nice way to ease in without being overwhelmed with conflicting information. And frankly I just don't have much free time for lengthy prep like that.  Got more money than time these days. But I'm gonna do my best to squeeze it in :wink:


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OfflinePsilosoulful

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Re: Metabolites...? [Re: oppsicle]
    #21974940 - 07/21/15 09:49 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

oppsicle said:
It's a cake of grains that happen to be in a bag. Regardless of proper terminology they are cake like objects. lol. but yeah they're 6 cups each so I just lost so many shrooms. I think I'll probably try it for posterity's sake.  Holy lame though. Never had a contam before, I wonder if my chamber slipped over 81 degrees at some point...



It's a grain bag lol. Cakes are the brf type in half pint jars. Anyway, you shouldn't have to use an incubation chamber during the colonization stage, room temp would be fine, anywhere between 70-78 is okay for all stages of mushroom growing. If the temp slipped past 81, it's no big deal, just make sure it doesn't exceed 86 or you could be stalling mycelial growth and allow bacteria to thrive.

And also, It would be a lot easier to start from scratch, then dealing with contams later on. It gets really frustrating when you're fruiting a tub and you see trich on one corner, and you have to decide whether or not to continue or toss out the tub you put soo much effort into. If you can get yourself a PC and a bag of grains, you can have multiple jars/bags going at the same time, and your success rate will most definitely increase.


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Offlineoppsicle
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Re: Metabolites...? [Re: Psilosoulful]
    #21975466 - 07/21/15 12:34 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Psilosoulful said:
Quote:

oppsicle said:
It's a cake of grains that happen to be in a bag. Regardless of proper terminology they are cake like objects. lol. but yeah they're 6 cups each so I just lost so many shrooms. I think I'll probably try it for posterity's sake.  Holy lame though. Never had a contam before, I wonder if my chamber slipped over 81 degrees at some point...



It's a grain bag lol. Cakes are the brf type in half pint jars. Anyway, you shouldn't have to use an incubation chamber during the colonization stage, room temp would be fine, anywhere between 70-78 is okay for all stages of mushroom growing. If the temp slipped past 81, it's no big deal, just make sure it doesn't exceed 86 or you could be stalling mycelial growth and allow bacteria to thrive.

And also, It would be a lot easier to start from scratch, then dealing with contams later on. It gets really frustrating when you're fruiting a tub and you see trich on one corner, and you have to decide whether or not to continue or toss out the tub you put soo much effort into. If you can get yourself a PC and a bag of grains, you can have multiple jars/bags going at the same time, and your success rate will most definitely increase.





YEAH, ACCORDING TO YOUR FASCIST SYSTEM OF UNWAVERABLE TERMINOLOGY!! :laugh: He said only half jokingly to this entire website...lol. I think I'm going to start calling them pies instead of cakes. but then people have no idea what I'm talking about most of the time anyway. i digress...

I've never had a contam before and I want to see what happens. i wouldn't mind if you explained trich to me as i am unfamiliar.  there's not a chance of growing something poisonous or something is there? (other than the booms obvs)


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Offlinetryptkaloids
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Re: Metabolites...? [Re: oppsicle]
    #21975519 - 07/21/15 12:49 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

this is where those precious hours of research we have all done on here comes in! google led me here and I've never gone anywhere else for mycology questions. the advanced search on this site is your best friend. use it. do the research. we won't spoonfeed you http://www.shroomery.org/5122/The-Shroomery-Mushroom-Glossary  http://www.shroomery.org/9423/Mycological-and-OMC-abbreviations  these will help, also, learn the mushroom info section. a lot less conflicting knowledge there than the boards IMO go for it! learn the mushroom!


--------------------
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OfflinePsilosoulful

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Re: Metabolites...? [Re: oppsicle]
    #21975575 - 07/21/15 01:02 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

oppsicle said:
Quote:

Psilosoulful said:
Quote:

oppsicle said:
It's a cake of grains that happen to be in a bag. Regardless of proper terminology they are cake like objects. lol. but yeah they're 6 cups each so I just lost so many shrooms. I think I'll probably try it for posterity's sake.  Holy lame though. Never had a contam before, I wonder if my chamber slipped over 81 degrees at some point...



It's a grain bag lol. Cakes are the brf type in half pint jars. Anyway, you shouldn't have to use an incubation chamber during the colonization stage, room temp would be fine, anywhere between 70-78 is okay for all stages of mushroom growing. If the temp slipped past 81, it's no big deal, just make sure it doesn't exceed 86 or you could be stalling mycelial growth and allow bacteria to thrive.

And also, It would be a lot easier to start from scratch, then dealing with contams later on. It gets really frustrating when you're fruiting a tub and you see trich on one corner, and you have to decide whether or not to continue or toss out the tub you put soo much effort into. If you can get yourself a PC and a bag of grains, you can have multiple jars/bags going at the same time, and your success rate will most definitely increase.





YEAH, ACCORDING TO YOUR FASCIST SYSTEM OF UNWAVERABLE TERMINOLOGY!! :laugh: He said only half jokingly to this entire website...lol. I think I'm going to start calling them pies instead of cakes. but then people have no idea what I'm talking about most of the time anyway. i digress...

I've never had a contam before and I want to see what happens. i wouldn't mind if you explained trich to me as i am unfamiliar.  there's not a chance of growing something poisonous or something is there? (other than the booms obvs)



Give this a quick read, it goes into detail about contaminants: http://www.shroomery.org/5276/What-are-common-contaminants-of-the-mushroom-culture

And, I would never eat a mushroom off a contaminated substrate, it's not worth a trip to the hospital. If you see it, toss it. That's my rule.


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OfflineKizzle
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Re: Metabolites...? [Re: Psilosoulful]
    #21975709 - 07/21/15 01:44 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

No ones ever gone to the hospital from eating a mushroom off a contaminated substrate :lol:


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: Metabolites...? [Re: Kizzle]
    #21975717 - 07/21/15 01:46 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

:whathesaid: every mushroom picked in the wild is from a contaminated substrate.


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OfflinePsilosoulful

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Re: Metabolites...? [Re: Mad Season]
    #21975729 - 07/21/15 01:50 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

:themoreyouknow:


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Offlinetryptkaloids
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Re: Metabolites...? [Re: Psilosoulful]
    #21975735 - 07/21/15 01:52 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

very good to know


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Offlineoppsicle
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Re: Metabolites...? [Re: tryptkaloids]
    #21975980 - 07/21/15 03:02 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

aw man you guys. I love youse guys. let's all hang out sometime. heh.


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OfflinePsilosoulful

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Re: Metabolites...? [Re: oppsicle]
    #21976521 - 07/21/15 05:04 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

oppsicle said:
aw man you guys. I love youse guys. let's all hang out sometime. heh.



:highfive:


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Offlineoppsicle
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Re: Metabolites...? [Re: Psilosoulful]
    #22053242 - 08/06/15 11:58 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Just wanted to say I've gotten a fine crop from those bags.  The naked cakes got trich pretty quickly, but I think that was due to some trich on some previous cakes rather than from the bacteria.  And I still got a nice flush out of em :wink:


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