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Turtletotem
Dutch Delight



Registered: 09/02/13
Posts: 3,763
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Re: Chicken Factory Farmer Speaks Out - Lets Animal Rights Org Film On His Factory Farm [Re: passifloracaerulea]
#21969715 - 07/20/15 08:27 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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 Luckyyyy
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passifloracaerulea



Registered: 11/13/10
Posts: 10,485
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Re: Chicken Factory Farmer Speaks Out - Lets Animal Rights Org Film On His Factory Farm [Re: Turtletotem]
#21969722 - 07/20/15 08:29 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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She could have killed me by just pushing me off the road.
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nicechrisman
Interdimensional space wizard



Registered: 11/07/03
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Re: Chicken Factory Farmer Speaks Out - Lets Animal Rights Org Film On His Factory Farm [Re: Asante] 3
#21969730 - 07/20/15 08:33 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I don't see how anyone can honestly pretend to know what a chicken or cow thinks or feels. And yes they were surviving plenty fine before we started rearing them.
That said, I do like to eat meat, but it would be nice if food animals were raised more humanely. There are obvious differences in the flavor between true free range animals and factory farmed ones.
-------------------- "Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent: it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not." John C. Lily
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abltsandwich
JFK = Jelly Donut




Registered: 06/16/09
Posts: 11,537
Loc: Dildoville
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Re: Chicken Factory Farmer Speaks Out - Lets Animal Rights Org Film On His Factory Farm [Re: nicechrisman]
#21969796 - 07/20/15 08:52 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Once we can efficiently grow meat from stem cells, factory farming will take on a whole new meaning. I also think mealworms are the way of the future as far as factory farming protein sources. The efficiency of output in any metric is substantially higher than current factory farming of animals.
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passifloracaerulea



Registered: 11/13/10
Posts: 10,485
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Re: Chicken Factory Farmer Speaks Out - Lets Animal Rights Org Film On His Factory Farm [Re: nicechrisman]
#21969811 - 07/20/15 08:55 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Something about factory farmers that really bugs me is that they have no control over the way their animals are raised while under a sales contract. Now what happens to the species if left under sole control by these people? The animals devolve, and without the small time farmer, the industry would destroy all animal food sources by way of making them easier to manage in a factory setting. Without the small farmer there would be no biodiversity left to replace their creatures with. This is analogous to parents not vaccinating their children in hopes that everyone else who does so keeps diseases away from their unvaccinated child.
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topdog82
Death Spirit



Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 7,992
Loc: California
Last seen: 5 months, 3 days
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Re: Chicken Factory Farmer Speaks Out - Lets Animal Rights Org Film On His Factory Farm [Re: Psychonautica]
#21969833 - 07/20/15 09:05 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
nicechrisman said: I don't see how anyone can honestly pretend to know what a chicken or cow thinks or feels. And yes they were surviving plenty fine before we started rearing them.
That said, I do like to eat meat, but it would be nice if food animals were raised more humanely. There are obvious differences in the flavor between true free range animals and factory farmed ones.
Quote:
Psychonautica said: To be honest I never cared about this whole hurp derp were mistreating animals bullshit. I try to avoid factory farmed food just because it's laced with anti bacterials and hormones and shit but as far as the Peta movement they're all a bunch of social justice warriors fighting for the "rights" of animals who have brains the size of a walnut and if it weren't for domestication, would have completely died out and gone extinct from their own stupidity if we didn't breed them for the food.
We're the top of the food chain. Do you think a lion cares about how a zebra is treated?
this
I would not venture to say that cows are intelligent. But they have the basic ability to think and feel. Sheep, cows, pigs and dogs are on the same level in terms of how they expereince reality. Chickens on the other hand are pretty stupid. But even then, chickens probably dont enjoy being beaten and smelling blood of their companions in dark rooms. I dont really give too much credit to peta as they are sort of part of the issue. PETA pushes veganism which is a worthy cause with some interesting points, but ultimately it cannot be supported
But a little bit of compassion in the way we raise food would go a long way
The irony of the situation is that the second people are killing dogs in Yulin, everyone starts throwing a tantrum. But we treat pigs, sheep and cows (just as intelligent) much worse
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Chicken Factory Farmer Speaks Out - Lets Animal Rights Org Film On His Factory Farm [Re: Psychonautica]
#21972077 - 07/20/15 06:14 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Psychonautica said: Do you think a lion cares about how a zebra is treated?
Maybe it should.
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Psychonautica
Cuddly Wuddly Fuccboi


Registered: 04/20/15
Posts: 10,854
Loc: Free Soul & IISkuNkII
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Re: Chicken Factory Farmer Speaks Out - Lets Animal Rights Org Film On His Factory Farm [Re: DieCommie]
#21972106 - 07/20/15 06:19 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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We should start treating plants better. They're forced to grow in fields within inches of thousands of their relatives literally growing out of other animals feces in some cases. Sprayed with chemicals and then cut down with a giant turbine of knife blades.
-------------------- The chances of you even being born, Were forty million to one. There's two parts of the statistic And I want you to live through one 3/8/95 - 7/10/15 Rest In Paradise, Brother. Sheekle said: yeah, i said i was afraid of psychonautica

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topdog82
Death Spirit



Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 7,992
Loc: California
Last seen: 5 months, 3 days
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Re: Chicken Factory Farmer Speaks Out - Lets Animal Rights Org Film On His Factory Farm [Re: Psychonautica]
#21973476 - 07/20/15 10:54 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Psychonautica said: We should start treating plants better. They're forced to grow in fields within inches of thousands of their relatives literally growing out of other animals feces in some cases. Sprayed with chemicals and then cut down with a giant turbine of knife blades.
the difference is that cows are SENTIENT when you cut a plant with a blade it doesn't bleed, scream and cry. It has 0 sentience There is some science to show that plants can "feel" but most science and critical thinking would point us in the direction that plants are much less conscious than animals, and that they are not sentient at all
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TheGreenArrow
Goodbye, Mr. Chops.



Registered: 06/22/12
Posts: 15,270
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
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Re: Chicken Factory Farmer Speaks Out - Lets Animal Rights Org Film On His Factory Farm [Re: topdog82]
#21973702 - 07/20/15 11:45 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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That's aweful biased. I think the Psychedelic Experience seems to come from the conscious contact between humans and plants.
-------------------- A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, conn a ship, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve an equation, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.- Robert A. Heinlein Saint RedBow of the Shroomey Loomey-Patron Saint of Sandbaggin Sumbitchs
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topdog82
Death Spirit



Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 7,992
Loc: California
Last seen: 5 months, 3 days
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Re: Chicken Factory Farmer Speaks Out - Lets Animal Rights Org Film On His Factory Farm [Re: TheGreenArrow]
#21973725 - 07/20/15 11:50 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
TheGreenArrow said: That's aweful biased. I think the Psychedelic Experience seems to come from the conscious contact between humans and plants.
Well to be clear, I am pointing out that there is 0 debate in the scientific/intellectual sphere that animals have sentience. I never said its okay to mistreat plants, but clearly plucking a blade of grass is much less of an issue than torturing a cow. We know this as we barely feel guilt versus feel sympthathy when comparing the two actions
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TheGreenArrow
Goodbye, Mr. Chops.



Registered: 06/22/12
Posts: 15,270
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
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Re: Chicken Factory Farmer Speaks Out - Lets Animal Rights Org Film On His Factory Farm [Re: topdog82]
#21973758 - 07/21/15 12:01 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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That's just cultural bias though. Certain native Americans believed even the rocks were just a more dense, different vibration of consciousness. Just because you don't feel guilt has nothing to do with this.
-------------------- A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, conn a ship, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve an equation, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.- Robert A. Heinlein Saint RedBow of the Shroomey Loomey-Patron Saint of Sandbaggin Sumbitchs
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topdog82
Death Spirit



Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 7,992
Loc: California
Last seen: 5 months, 3 days
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Re: Chicken Factory Farmer Speaks Out - Lets Animal Rights Org Film On His Factory Farm [Re: TheGreenArrow]
#21974820 - 07/21/15 09:11 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
TheGreenArrow said: That's just cultural bias though. Certain native Americans believed even the rocks were just a more dense, different vibration of consciousness. Just because you don't feel guilt has nothing to do with this.
Well the key here is to use science as a resource for providing objective truth. There is yet to be scientific evidence that plants are more/as concious as humans or pigs and same goes for rocks
That being said, we can't rly produce scientific evidence on the other side so ya
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passifloracaerulea



Registered: 11/13/10
Posts: 10,485
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Re: Chicken Factory Farmer Speaks Out - Lets Animal Rights Org Film On His Factory Farm [Re: topdog82]
#21974842 - 07/21/15 09:20 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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This argument is a joke. Rocks and plants? These people are arguing that animals don't matter but they want rocks and plants treated better? I know they're just doing it to prove a point but they're admitting that they think rocks and plants are treated poorly. By this extension they are also making the argument that animals should be treated better as well, so there is no argument.
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Ran-D



Registered: 12/19/10
Posts: 16,313
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Re: Chicken Factory Farmer Speaks Out - Lets Animal Rights Org Film On His Factory Farm [Re: Psychonautica]
#21974877 - 07/21/15 09:33 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Psychonautica said: We should start treating plants better. They're forced to grow in fields within inches of thousands of their relatives literally growing out of other animals feces in some cases. Sprayed with chemicals and then cut down with a giant turbine of knife blades.
Do you have a garden at all? Plants are a lot more aware of their surroundings than you think.
I realize it feels cool to be the tough guy who calls people hippies, but sometimes you have to humble yourself and really take a look at what's going on around you. Everything is alive, and every action has a reaction. Be mindful.
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis


Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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Re: Chicken Factory Farmer Speaks Out - Lets Animal Rights Org Film On His Factory Farm [Re: Asante]
#21975017 - 07/21/15 10:10 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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My goal is to eat exclusively game meat- elk, moose, deer, bison, and freshwater fish for meat. No factory farmed meat which means no beef, chicken or pork.
Game meat is, in my experience, far FAR more delicious, while also being FAR more ethical and FAR healthier, and gives me a very noticeable euphoric high and energy boost.
Factory farming is an abomination and I call that meat what it is "torture meat".
Sadly I am just as guilty of eating it and supporting that abomination as anybody, but I am transitioning to game meat where the animals lived out their natural lives in their natural environments, instead of being confined in tiny pens, tortured and pumped full of drugs their entire life.
No question, the meat of a tortured, suffering, terrified, depressed animal full of antibiotics and hormones is going to be far less delicious, less nutritious and less healthy then a free range, and especially a wild, animal.
Paying more for humane meat, whether that be game or free range or at least grass fed, is well worth it!
www.meetyourmeat.com
--------------------
Everything I post is fiction.
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Srirachi
Mold Hand



Registered: 10/18/05
Posts: 11,411
Loc: Fare Thee Well.
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Re: Chicken Factory Farmer Speaks Out - Lets Animal Rights Org Film On His Factory Farm [Re: Asante]
#21975060 - 07/21/15 10:21 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'm not taking a side on this issue but I want to present some pro-farmer facts.
-Worldwide only 2% of the population are involved in agriculture. Therefore, farmers worldwide each produce enough food for 50 people. That's a lot of pressure considering people die if we make a mistake. In the U.S., the number is 3x that - a U.S. Farmer produces on average enough food to feed 150 people.
-Thanks to population growth, the world's farmers must produce as much food just for the next 50 years as all farmers, ever in history, have produced. If they don't - people die. In fact, it's being discussed that at least 2 billion people are going to starve to death in the next 50 years because population growth has already outpaced farm production. There's a bunch of writers arguing that this isn't the case and saying everything is fine... but no one involved in food production is saying this.
- Most farms are not factory farms. Most farms are family farms, part of a dying heritage passed from generation to generation, and the land you farm is the land your great-grandfather cleared by hand. People know your name, and how you treat people. If you're a fuckup in a farm community, people will remember that for GENERATIONS. City people don't often understand that. "Oh, you're {dad's name}'s boy," is a phrase you get in a small town if your dad ripped a guy off for $5 back in 1956. It is a self-policing community in many respects, and people who make farmers look bad are not welcomed by the rest of the community. Farmers hate factory farms too... but you people keep fucking, and insisting that chicken only cost $1.99 a pound, while the EPA is telling me I can't have a retention pond over here, and the DNR is telling me that if I drain the retention pond I'll be arrested for destroying wetlands... did I mention chicken is still only $1.99 a pound?
-Laypeople don't understand what they're looking at sometimes. A good example is the farrowing stalls in a hog farm. People think it is cruel to separate the sow from her litter, but don't realize that more piglets die from the sow rolling over on them than from any other cause in a farrowing operation. It'd be nice if we didn't need the crates, because we all had the opportunity to sit there with the sow at every feeding and make sure all goes well. You can't do that with a herd of 100+ sows.
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topdog82
Death Spirit



Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 7,992
Loc: California
Last seen: 5 months, 3 days
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Re: Chicken Factory Farmer Speaks Out - Lets Animal Rights Org Film On His Factory Farm [Re: passifloracaerulea]
#21975258 - 07/21/15 11:23 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Moonshoe said: My goal is to eat exclusively game meat- elk, moose, deer, bison, and freshwater fish for meat. No factory farmed meat which means no beef, chicken or pork.
Game meat is, in my experience, far FAR more delicious, while also being FAR more ethical and FAR healthier, and gives me a very noticeable euphoric high and energy boost.
Factory farming is an abomination and I call that meat what it is "torture meat".
Sadly I am just as guilty of eating it and supporting that abomination as anybody, but I am transitioning to game meat where the animals lived out their natural lives in their natural environments, instead of being confined in tiny pens, tortured and pumped full of drugs their entire life.
No question, the meat of a tortured, suffering, terrified, depressed animal full of antibiotics and hormones is going to be far less delicious, less nutritious and less healthy then a free range, and especially a wild, animal.
Paying more for humane meat, whether that be game or free range or at least grass fed, is well worth it!
www.meetyourmeat.com
always can count on moonshoe to objectively call it what it is!
Also, you live in canada correct? I believe game meat is more common there. It isn't really practical for americans to eat game meat. Hence I believe that grass-fed humane beef is perfectly fine
I personally would even venture to say that eating any factory farmed meat is a clearly unethical choiceQuote:
Srirachi said: I'm not taking a side on this issue but I want to present some pro-farmer facts.
-Worldwide only 2% of the population are involved in agriculture. Therefore, farmers worldwide each produce enough food for 50 people. That's a lot of pressure considering people die if we make a mistake. In the U.S., the number is 3x that - a U.S. Farmer produces on average enough food to feed 150 people.
-Thanks to population growth, the world's farmers must produce as much food just for the next 50 years as all farmers, ever in history, have produced. If they don't - people die. In fact, it's being discussed that at least 2 billion people are going to starve to death in the next 50 years because population growth has already outpaced farm production. There's a bunch of writers arguing that this isn't the case and saying everything is fine... but no one involved in food production is saying this.
- Most farms are not factory farms. Most farms are family farms, part of a dying heritage passed from generation to generation, and the land you farm is the land your great-grandfather cleared by hand. People know your name, and how you treat people. If you're a fuckup in a farm community, people will remember that for GENERATIONS. City people don't often understand that. "Oh, you're {dad's name}'s boy," is a phrase you get in a small town if your dad ripped a guy off for $5 back in 1956. It is a self-policing community in many respects, and people who make farmers look bad are not welcomed by the rest of the community. Farmers hate factory farms too... but you people keep fucking, and insisting that chicken only cost $1.99 a pound, while the EPA is telling me I can't have a retention pond over here, and the DNR is telling me that if I drain the retention pond I'll be arrested for destroying wetlands... did I mention chicken is still only $1.99 a pound?
-Laypeople don't understand what they're looking at sometimes. A good example is the farrowing stalls in a hog farm. People think it is cruel to separate the sow from her litter, but don't realize that more piglets die from the sow rolling over on them than from any other cause in a farrowing operation. It'd be nice if we didn't need the crates, because we all had the opportunity to sit there with the sow at every feeding and make sure all goes well. You can't do that with a herd of 100+ sows.
very insightful. But aren't most american meat farms factory farms? I figure that family farms had been outclassed by larger scale factory farms and machinery. Hence, family farms took on a more conveyor belt model
Quote:
passifloracaerulea said: This argument is a joke. Rocks and plants? These people are arguing that animals don't matter but they want rocks and plants treated better? I know they're just doing it to prove a point but they're admitting that they think rocks and plants are treated poorly. By this extension they are also making the argument that animals should be treated better as well, so there is no argument.
This. Are you fucking kidding me? You are trying to argue that a dogs suffering doesnt matter? IF anyone killed a puppy or pig in front of you, you would have an emotional reaction. ANY mentally healthy human would feel this way
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passifloracaerulea



Registered: 11/13/10
Posts: 10,485
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Re: Chicken Factory Farmer Speaks Out - Lets Animal Rights Org Film On His Factory Farm [Re: topdog82] 1
#21975916 - 07/21/15 02:46 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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You clearly didn't get my point. The people who don't give a shit about animal cruelty are wanting plant/rock rights, thereby negating their original argument completely. They have no right to speak for anyone but themselves if they cannot recognize the rights of a dog or pig.
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TheGreenArrow
Goodbye, Mr. Chops.



Registered: 06/22/12
Posts: 15,270
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
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Re: Chicken Factory Farmer Speaks Out - Lets Animal Rights Org Film On His Factory Farm [Re: passifloracaerulea]
#21976044 - 07/21/15 03:15 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Y'know that really wasn't my point with that post. My point was what if all things are conscious on some level? I mean to say that life takes life in pretty much all situations and all things are transient.
-------------------- A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, conn a ship, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve an equation, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.- Robert A. Heinlein Saint RedBow of the Shroomey Loomey-Patron Saint of Sandbaggin Sumbitchs
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