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jesuisravi
The Old Noob



Registered: 06/24/15
Posts: 260
Loc: Midwest USA
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poor man's v-tek
#21967887 - 07/19/15 10:45 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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So, I got myself 6 quart Ziplock containers, loaded them with twice-boiled 48 hour soaked rgs--only to discover that I could only fit one of these containers into my 8 quart Presto pc at a time. I had expected to be able to get 3 of them in there--after all I can get three quart Ball jars in. But the Ziplocks are wider at the mouth than even wide mouth mason jars. And so...I went to my collection of Smucker's peanut butter jars, put holes in 4 of their lids, inserted a polyfill plug in each, unloaded four of the Ziplocks into the Smuckers and here is what I got:

The seven containers in the pic--2 Zips and 5 Schmucks--I was able to pc in two loads, instead of the six loads it would have taken if I stuck with using all Zips.
Sorry the pic is so dark--it is a phone snap in poor light. I will do better by and by. The phone automatically uploads any pics I take on it to my computer and has become my go-to device where pics of this nature are concerned. Anyway, my aim in this grow is to isolate the genetics of the first showing, fastest growing mushroom of the bunch. I chose V-tek because it seems ideal for someone who doesn't want huge batches of mushroom--what would I do with them anyway. blast off,land on Jupiter or at least try to orbit it for the rest of my crazy days? I have no interest any time in getting fucked up on mushrooms, and like to trip very intermittantly and with a lot of discretion and as little nausea as possible--thus another part of my aim in this grow is to maybe find a mushroom whose genes do not include the one(s) that initiates and governs the production of chemicals that promote major tummy ache.
I welcome any comments on how to proceed, especially from those who may have used a this tek or any of its variants.
-------------------- Most of my beliefs I acquired from my father and from John Wayne, and anything that wasn't ultra tough and ultra cool was to me ultra embarrassing. In fact, I lived in a state of near continuous embarrassment, never measuring up to the ridiculous standards I had accepted without question, applied to a framework of expectations neither I nor anyone else could meet.--J C Amberchele almost nothing important that ever happens to you happens because you engineer it. Destiny has no beeper; destiny always leans trenchcoated out of an alley with some sort of 'psst' that you usually can't even hear because you're in such a rush to or from something important you've tried to engineer. ” ― David Foster Wallace, Infinite Jest
Edited by jesuisravi (07/20/15 08:29 AM)
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Machiavelliavore
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Registered: 12/08/14
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I can't really tell, but you might be lacking sufficient clearance to do much invitro fruiting, and the narrowing of the mouth will make getting in there tricky. Sidepins will be a bit of a PITA to properly harvest.
That said, just loosen up that poly once you're colonized and you should be good to go.
That sucks about your PC. Did you try putting them sideways or one right side up, one upside down configuration? (btw, not sure that latter one is a good idea, might work well if you wrap the whole thing in foil) My 22qt pc will fit 9 mason quarts and barely 8 dollarstore twisttop quarts, and I feel quite lucky to be able to fit that. They are designed for stacking and strength, not space efficiency.
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I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister. I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave. I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent. Triggered yet? Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."
No, this does not look right...
Edited by Machiavelliavore (07/20/15 12:36 AM)
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jesuisravi
The Old Noob



Registered: 06/24/15
Posts: 260
Loc: Midwest USA
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Quote:
Machiavelliavore said: I can't really tell, but you might be lacking sufficient clearance to do much invitro fruiting, and the narrowing of the mouth will make getting in there tricky. Sidepins will be a bit of a PITA to properly harvest.
That said, just loosen up that poly once you're colonized and you should be good to go.
That sucks about your PC. Did you try putting them sideways or one right side up, one upside down configuration? (btw, not sure that latter one is a good idea, might work well if you wrap the whole thing in foil) My 22qt pc will fit 9 mason quarts and barely 8 dollarstore twisttop quarts, and I feel quite lucky to be able to fit that.
Thanks for your comments. Yes, my pc is tall and narrow. If it were an inch shorter and therefore a bit bigger around, I could probably get 3 Zips in there, although with not much room to spare. I used to have a much larger cooker but got rid of it the last time I moved--thinking foolishly that I would never grow mushroom again.How little we know ourselves.
What you say about turning one of them on its head is something I briefly considered but decided against on the ground that it would disturb the substrate--a silly notion now that I think of it because as soon as I got the containers out of the pc I shook them mightily to unclump the seed. Next time that is just what I will do. Thanks for bringing it back to my mind.
-------------------- Most of my beliefs I acquired from my father and from John Wayne, and anything that wasn't ultra tough and ultra cool was to me ultra embarrassing. In fact, I lived in a state of near continuous embarrassment, never measuring up to the ridiculous standards I had accepted without question, applied to a framework of expectations neither I nor anyone else could meet.--J C Amberchele almost nothing important that ever happens to you happens because you engineer it. Destiny has no beeper; destiny always leans trenchcoated out of an alley with some sort of 'psst' that you usually can't even hear because you're in such a rush to or from something important you've tried to engineer. ” ― David Foster Wallace, Infinite Jest
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Machiavelliavore
Vermiculite Hater



Registered: 12/08/14
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Last seen: 3 months, 20 days
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There are two problems with upside down.
Water splashing and condensation getting into the threads: Some foil wrapping should take care of this.
Grass seed getting stuck in the lid: Turn the container upside down with the lid twisted all the way shut, shake to let the grains settle, then untwist the lid the minimum you can get away with and handle it carefully. Perhaps try to knock off any grains in the threads or clamped on the lip with tweezers when you have it open to inoculate.
I have completey stopped shaking grass seed before inoculation because it's so damn good at getting into lids.
A big grain like rye might be a better choice for upside down usage.
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I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister. I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave. I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent. Triggered yet? Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."
No, this does not look right...
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jesuisravi
The Old Noob



Registered: 06/24/15
Posts: 260
Loc: Midwest USA
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Quote:
Machiavelliavore said: There are two problems with upside down.
Water splashing and condensation getting into the threads: Some foil wrapping should take care of this.
Grass seed getting stuck in the lid: Turn the container upside down with the lid twisted all the way shut, shake to let the grains settle, then untwist the lid the minimum you can get away with and handle it carefully. Perhaps try to knock off any grains in the threads or clamped on the lip with tweezers when you have it open to inoculate.
I have completey stopped shaking grass seed before inoculation because it's so damn good at getting into lids.
A big grain like rye might be a better choice for upside down usage.
I was pondering the water-getting-in problem you mention here last night too. I had a mini eureka moment at one point: I could wrap the Zip container half way up with foil, thus effectively blocking entrance to the cooker boil. I haven't yet dealt with the grains getting under the lid, but I will climb over that hurdle when it presents itself. I agree that rye berries would obviate that problem nicely but the fact that the author of this tek is so big on using grass seed , and also because it is the only grain that doesn't need casing, are big points in favor of keeping to the rgs. Anyway, I have taken a photo in better light of the two container types that I am using for this grow:

A close look will reveal some of the colonized rye berries that were used in inoculating. Each jar was dosed with a soup spoonful--spoon being sterilized in fire and alki at the onset but not between each scoop.
Also, I realize I probably have more seed in these containers than the tek calls for--but, hey, I'm a good American and we know that more is better!
-------------------- Most of my beliefs I acquired from my father and from John Wayne, and anything that wasn't ultra tough and ultra cool was to me ultra embarrassing. In fact, I lived in a state of near continuous embarrassment, never measuring up to the ridiculous standards I had accepted without question, applied to a framework of expectations neither I nor anyone else could meet.--J C Amberchele almost nothing important that ever happens to you happens because you engineer it. Destiny has no beeper; destiny always leans trenchcoated out of an alley with some sort of 'psst' that you usually can't even hear because you're in such a rush to or from something important you've tried to engineer. ” ― David Foster Wallace, Infinite Jest
Edited by jesuisravi (07/20/15 08:47 AM)
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Machiavelliavore
Vermiculite Hater



Registered: 12/08/14
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I dip my spoon in alc, light it on fire, and keep flaming. I don't know if it's better, but its pretty fuckin fun to light a spoon on fire.
I believe violet says rye berries will work in her initial v-tek thread, just that she prefers other grains. Just use a casing. Rice would probably work as well, though rye really seems like it wouldn't get stuck in the lid at all. Also, if you're grains aren't dry, you might have issues with starch juice getting into your threads. I would leave the foil on, then take it into your SAB when you're ready to go, and clean the threads with a sterile alcohol schwab.
RGS is incidiously as far as lids are concerned.
Your pb jars have enough room to fruit decently I think, they'll just grow every which way. Shouldn't matter too much. Ziplocks look properly or underloaded.
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I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister. I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave. I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent. Triggered yet? Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."
No, this does not look right...
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jesuisravi
The Old Noob



Registered: 06/24/15
Posts: 260
Loc: Midwest USA
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Quote:
Machiavelliavore said: I dip my spoon in alc, light it on fire, and keep flaming. I don't know if it's better, but its pretty fuckin fun to light a spoon on fire.
I believe violet says rye berries will work in her initial v-tek thread, just that she prefers other grains. Just use a casing. Rice would probably work as well, though rye really seems like it wouldn't get stuck in the lid at all. Also, if you're grains aren't dry, you might have issues with starch juice getting into your threads. I would leave the foil on, then take it into your SAB when you're ready to go, and clean the threads with a sterile alcohol schwab.
RGS is incidiously as far as lids are concerned.
Your pb jars have enough room to fruit decently I think, they'll just grow every which way. Shouldn't matter too much. Ziplocks look properly or underloaded.
So far I'm good with the lids but next time, when I invert one of the Zips, I will probably have to deal with that issue.
I usually hold the spoon over my homemade alcohol lamp for 30 seconds or so and then bring it into the SAB. When is is cooled somewhat, I wipe it with a scott towel soaked in alki. I don't know if that is extreme practice or not. Some people are more relaxed when doing G2G and some get really nutty, not only sterilizing the spoon or whatever they are using between each jar, but also spraying bleach solution every time they turn around. Well, I guess one good brush with contamination can do that to a fella.I have found that if I do a good job of pressure cooking, the grow usually goes pretty well.
-------------------- Most of my beliefs I acquired from my father and from John Wayne, and anything that wasn't ultra tough and ultra cool was to me ultra embarrassing. In fact, I lived in a state of near continuous embarrassment, never measuring up to the ridiculous standards I had accepted without question, applied to a framework of expectations neither I nor anyone else could meet.--J C Amberchele almost nothing important that ever happens to you happens because you engineer it. Destiny has no beeper; destiny always leans trenchcoated out of an alley with some sort of 'psst' that you usually can't even hear because you're in such a rush to or from something important you've tried to engineer. ” ― David Foster Wallace, Infinite Jest
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Machiavelliavore
Vermiculite Hater



Registered: 12/08/14
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I would be wrong on this, but I think it will be at its most clean after flaming with the lamp, and you are actually rubbing contams on the spoon by schwabbing it in the box.
Too bad, especially with RGS inoculant, that it doesn't remain shakable very long. I've taken to using very high ratio g2g's to overwhelm any problems. Won't work well with vtek though too many containers.
Edited by Machiavelliavore (07/20/15 01:06 PM)
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jesuisravi
The Old Noob



Registered: 06/24/15
Posts: 260
Loc: Midwest USA
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Quote:
Machiavelliavore said: I would be wrong on this, but I think it will be at its most clean after flaming with the lamp, and you are actually rubbing contams on the spoon by schwabbing it in the box.
Too bad, especially with RGS inoculant, that it doesn't remain shakable very long. I've taken to using very high ratio g2g's to overwhelm any problems. Won't work well with vtek though too many containers.
Yes, you are right. Alcohol will not kill everything. Spores are resistant to alcohol. So it is not the whole answer.You need fire too.
-------------------- Most of my beliefs I acquired from my father and from John Wayne, and anything that wasn't ultra tough and ultra cool was to me ultra embarrassing. In fact, I lived in a state of near continuous embarrassment, never measuring up to the ridiculous standards I had accepted without question, applied to a framework of expectations neither I nor anyone else could meet.--J C Amberchele almost nothing important that ever happens to you happens because you engineer it. Destiny has no beeper; destiny always leans trenchcoated out of an alley with some sort of 'psst' that you usually can't even hear because you're in such a rush to or from something important you've tried to engineer. ” ― David Foster Wallace, Infinite Jest
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jesuisravi
The Old Noob



Registered: 06/24/15
Posts: 260
Loc: Midwest USA
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It is now two days since inouculation. Here is what it looks like so far. The jar on the right has been on a window ledge where the temp is about 72. The Jar on the left is in the incubation chamber where temp is about 83.

So you see, cubes like a little heat when they are in the myc stage. I know this is no news to most but seems to me I have heard that room temp is better than higher temps of incubation chambers. This was the latest word a few years ago. Anyway, these two jars are saying something else.
-------------------- Most of my beliefs I acquired from my father and from John Wayne, and anything that wasn't ultra tough and ultra cool was to me ultra embarrassing. In fact, I lived in a state of near continuous embarrassment, never measuring up to the ridiculous standards I had accepted without question, applied to a framework of expectations neither I nor anyone else could meet.--J C Amberchele almost nothing important that ever happens to you happens because you engineer it. Destiny has no beeper; destiny always leans trenchcoated out of an alley with some sort of 'psst' that you usually can't even hear because you're in such a rush to or from something important you've tried to engineer. ” ― David Foster Wallace, Infinite Jest
Edited by jesuisravi (07/21/15 05:49 PM)
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Cubes are always in the myc stage as soon as the spore sprouts. Primary mycelium is monokaryotic hyphae. Dikaryotic mycelium is secondary and is now a strain. Tertiary mycelium is the fruit bodies themselves yes 100% mycelium. But tertiary mycelium can be made of multiple dikaryotic strains. Like you get when you grow from spores 100s of strains working as one single grow
Rest assured when you have more than a couple horrible looking jar grows behind you you'll figure out that 68-72 is perfect and 65-75 is good. 75+ is not that good 81+ is horrible. For the colonization stage.
Edited by Trusted cuItivator (07/21/15 05:13 PM)
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jesuisravi
The Old Noob



Registered: 06/24/15
Posts: 260
Loc: Midwest USA
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: Cubes are always in the myc stage as soon as the spore sprouts. Primary mycelium is monokaryotic hyphae. Dikaryotic mycelium is secondary and is now a strain. Tertiary mycelium is the fruit bodies themselves yes 100% mycelium. But tertiary mycelium can be made of multiple dikaryotic strains. Like you get when you grow from spores 100s of strains working as one single grow
Rest assured when you have more than a couple horrible looking jar grows behind you you'll figure out that 68-72 is perfect and 65-75 is good. 75+ is not that good 81+ is horrible. For the colonization stage.
So you are saying that a single mushroom is not the child of two spores, but of many?
I have grown a lot of cubes--this grow is the first grow I have done in about 6 years. I agree these are horrible looking jars but the tek I am using is forgiving in regard to sort of container is used--at least as far as I understand it.I tried to use the containers that were specified but my tall narrow pc resisted more than one of them in a run. That was unacceptable.
Please say why 81 is horrible? I have never tested before whether room temp is better than 10 degrees higher. I always liked to give the guys more heat in the early stages. Now, from what I am seeing, I was justified. Please say, therefore, why you say what you do about temps.
-------------------- Most of my beliefs I acquired from my father and from John Wayne, and anything that wasn't ultra tough and ultra cool was to me ultra embarrassing. In fact, I lived in a state of near continuous embarrassment, never measuring up to the ridiculous standards I had accepted without question, applied to a framework of expectations neither I nor anyone else could meet.--J C Amberchele almost nothing important that ever happens to you happens because you engineer it. Destiny has no beeper; destiny always leans trenchcoated out of an alley with some sort of 'psst' that you usually can't even hear because you're in such a rush to or from something important you've tried to engineer. ” ― David Foster Wallace, Infinite Jest
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Machiavelliavore
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Registered: 12/08/14
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AFAIK the cubes like the heat, but the bacteria like the heat even more, so if your spawn has any bacteria in it, you'll be increasing the amount of bacteria in the finished product by increasing the heat.
I had some jars I left in the sun for a day, hit prolly like 100F+ due to direct sunlight, and each had a stripe that would not colonize (assuming bacteria.) Never had any other problems with bacteria in my 65min PC WBS quarts.
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I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister. I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave. I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent. Triggered yet? Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."
No, this does not look right...
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jesuisravi
The Old Noob



Registered: 06/24/15
Posts: 260
Loc: Midwest USA
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Quote:
Machiavelliavore said: AFAIK the cubes like the heat, but the bacteria like the heat even more, so if your spawn has any bacteria in it, you'll be increasing the amount of bacteria in the finished product by increasing the heat.
I had some jars I left in the sun for a day, hit prolly like 100F+ due to direct sunlight, and each had a stripe that would not colonize (assuming bacteria.) Never had any other problems with bacteria in my 65min PC WBS quarts.
Now that you mention it, I seem to recall reading something RR said about heat and bacteria. So the cooler temps are an anti-bacterial measure? I may have to adjust my system a little with this in mind.
-------------------- Most of my beliefs I acquired from my father and from John Wayne, and anything that wasn't ultra tough and ultra cool was to me ultra embarrassing. In fact, I lived in a state of near continuous embarrassment, never measuring up to the ridiculous standards I had accepted without question, applied to a framework of expectations neither I nor anyone else could meet.--J C Amberchele almost nothing important that ever happens to you happens because you engineer it. Destiny has no beeper; destiny always leans trenchcoated out of an alley with some sort of 'psst' that you usually can't even hear because you're in such a rush to or from something important you've tried to engineer. ” ― David Foster Wallace, Infinite Jest
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ZeroBoyWD
Zombie



Registered: 11/21/07
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Clean rooms are kept cool for this reason
-------------------- I'm done trying to be "right." I want the exchange of ideas to be the currency of my economy. If you have something I can use, great. I'll try it out. If you think my methods are shit, great. Don't use it. We all want yields.
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jesuisravi
The Old Noob



Registered: 06/24/15
Posts: 260
Loc: Midwest USA
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Re: poor man's v-tek [Re: ZeroBoyWD]
#21979410 - 07/22/15 08:34 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
ZeroBoyWD said: Clean rooms are kept cool for this reason
That is good to know too. I have to go deeper into this business of sterilization. I was laboring under the ridiculous illusion that 60 or 120 mins at 15 psi killed the all the bad guys dead forever. haha.
-------------------- Most of my beliefs I acquired from my father and from John Wayne, and anything that wasn't ultra tough and ultra cool was to me ultra embarrassing. In fact, I lived in a state of near continuous embarrassment, never measuring up to the ridiculous standards I had accepted without question, applied to a framework of expectations neither I nor anyone else could meet.--J C Amberchele almost nothing important that ever happens to you happens because you engineer it. Destiny has no beeper; destiny always leans trenchcoated out of an alley with some sort of 'psst' that you usually can't even hear because you're in such a rush to or from something important you've tried to engineer. ” ― David Foster Wallace, Infinite Jest
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jesuisravi
The Old Noob



Registered: 06/24/15
Posts: 260
Loc: Midwest USA
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Here is a pic of the progress of my Texas cube myc after 3 days incubation. It was a rye grain to rgs inoculation.

Jar on the right has been left at room temp. Jar on the left is in an incubator whose temp has been lowered a bit from 83 to 80. I have been advised that is is a risky procedure but I am thinking it is not too risky given the shallow depth of my sub and the its scanty quantity--which is one of the beauties of this tek--so I read anyway. We shall see when the yield is on the scale.
One thing seems for sure--cube myc likes the warmer environment. Too bad there are hard guys hiding in that grass seed that like it too.
-------------------- Most of my beliefs I acquired from my father and from John Wayne, and anything that wasn't ultra tough and ultra cool was to me ultra embarrassing. In fact, I lived in a state of near continuous embarrassment, never measuring up to the ridiculous standards I had accepted without question, applied to a framework of expectations neither I nor anyone else could meet.--J C Amberchele almost nothing important that ever happens to you happens because you engineer it. Destiny has no beeper; destiny always leans trenchcoated out of an alley with some sort of 'psst' that you usually can't even hear because you're in such a rush to or from something important you've tried to engineer. ” ― David Foster Wallace, Infinite Jest
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jesuisravi
The Old Noob



Registered: 06/24/15
Posts: 260
Loc: Midwest USA
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I inoculated these jars on 7/19, Sunday. Here is the progress as of 7/23, Thursday. Again, the jar on the right has been kept at a temp of 72. The one one the left at a temp hovering between 79 and 80.

Please excuse the poor quality of the photo. I don't know how to reduce the photos I take by any other means than snipping them. Is there another way? As it is I can't get the Shroomery program to upload my pics half the time because of size restraints. And I am using a phone cam. ?
I am wondering now that most of my jars are almost fully covered with myc, when do I bring on the fruiting cycle, or invite it to bring itself on--and just how is that done? Anyone?
-------------------- Most of my beliefs I acquired from my father and from John Wayne, and anything that wasn't ultra tough and ultra cool was to me ultra embarrassing. In fact, I lived in a state of near continuous embarrassment, never measuring up to the ridiculous standards I had accepted without question, applied to a framework of expectations neither I nor anyone else could meet.--J C Amberchele almost nothing important that ever happens to you happens because you engineer it. Destiny has no beeper; destiny always leans trenchcoated out of an alley with some sort of 'psst' that you usually can't even hear because you're in such a rush to or from something important you've tried to engineer. ” ― David Foster Wallace, Infinite Jest
Edited by jesuisravi (07/23/15 08:03 AM)
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jesuisravi
The Old Noob



Registered: 06/24/15
Posts: 260
Loc: Midwest USA
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This is the 5th day since inoculation. Here is what the two jars are lokking like:

Jar on the left is in an incubation tub at 80 degrees. The other has been at room temp--72 degrees. Both are pretty much covered with myc but the one on the left has a heavier coat of it.
Here is a close up of another container in this project. This guyu is a quart ziplock container:

I guess it is time to try to fruit some of these jars.
-------------------- Most of my beliefs I acquired from my father and from John Wayne, and anything that wasn't ultra tough and ultra cool was to me ultra embarrassing. In fact, I lived in a state of near continuous embarrassment, never measuring up to the ridiculous standards I had accepted without question, applied to a framework of expectations neither I nor anyone else could meet.--J C Amberchele almost nothing important that ever happens to you happens because you engineer it. Destiny has no beeper; destiny always leans trenchcoated out of an alley with some sort of 'psst' that you usually can't even hear because you're in such a rush to or from something important you've tried to engineer. ” ― David Foster Wallace, Infinite Jest
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Machiavelliavore
Vermiculite Hater



Registered: 12/08/14
Posts: 3,038
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Last seen: 3 months, 20 days
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You're just going to have to play with the fruiting conditions on those pb jars. Maybe start with loose Polly, then remove if neeeded.
--------------------
I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister. I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave. I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent. Triggered yet? Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."
No, this does not look right...
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