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digdog
Stranger Than Average



Registered: 04/30/15
Posts: 44
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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0% Contamination (So Far) - Thoughts About Climate
#21963775 - 07/19/15 08:23 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Hello All,
So my initial foray into the wonderful world of mycology has been very interesting so far.
One of the things that has surprised me the most is a total lack of any signs of contamination on any of my dishes, jars or even my first straw bag (Reishi; Which is coming along nicely, it has 70% colonization in 7 days! yay!!! happy newbie ).
I feel like I have made many mistakes. Dropped petri dishes in my SAB because the gloves I bought were to thick... once I even forgot to flame the needle duh! 
Yet no sign of anything other than very nice white mycelium.
So I got to thinking why is there such a low rate of contamination in my experiments? It is surely not due to my diligence. I considered that maybe I just have cleaned things fairly well and that my initial LCs were clean from a good vendor.
Then it occurred to me that maybe it is because I live in the desert where mold (of any kind) is a relative rarity. Our average humidity here is under 10% so it stands to reason that the lack of moisture in this climate leads to very low airborne mold spore counts and the result is a happy newbie mycologist due to the lower risk of contamination.
Any thoughts on this or similar experiences?
-------------------- Once I stop learning, life will cease to have meaning.
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: 0% Contamination (So Far) - Thoughts About Climate [Re: digdog]
#21963974 - 07/19/15 09:32 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I think you've just been lucky so far. Eventually everyone gets a contamination. In fact I started off with none too. They just creep up on ya. When you least expect it.
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digdog
Stranger Than Average



Registered: 04/30/15
Posts: 44
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Re: 0% Contamination (So Far) - Thoughts About Climate [Re: Mad Season]
#21964062 - 07/19/15 10:04 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mad Season said: I think you've just been lucky so far. Eventually everyone gets a contamination. In fact I started off with none too. They just creep up on ya. When you least expect it.
I am sure you are right but oh how I hope you are wrong 
Well I guess I will enjoy it while it lasts
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: 0% Contamination (So Far) - Thoughts About Climate [Re: digdog]
#21964086 - 07/19/15 10:07 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Lol also I live in a plant hardiness zone 2. It's also below 10% rh. If you get molds in the fridge (which you most certainly do) you'll see them elsewhere too
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digdog
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Registered: 04/30/15
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Re: 0% Contamination (So Far) - Thoughts About Climate [Re: Mad Season]
#21965101 - 07/19/15 01:49 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I did buy a mini-fridge to store all my cultures and syringes etc... so hopefully that will minimize some of that risk. I should clean it with bleach water regularly still... soon probably, it has been about 2 months since I set it up. I guess I have a task for tomorrow.
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MikeBearPig
Not liked.


Registered: 07/15/14
Posts: 2,319
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Re: 0% Contamination (So Far) - Thoughts About Climate [Re: digdog]
#21965619 - 07/19/15 02:52 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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After the mounting evidence and my own laziness.. I am almost positive that 95% of contamination come from bad inoculates or dying substrates.
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Kizzle
Misanthrope


Registered: 08/30/11
Posts: 9,855
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Re: 0% Contamination (So Far) - Thoughts About Climate [Re: MikeBearPig]
#21966006 - 07/19/15 04:04 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
I feel like I have made many mistakes. Dropped petri dishes in my SAB because the gloves I bought were to thick... once I even forgot to flame the needle duh! 
Bacteria is usually what I run into when I fumble like that. It's not quite as obvious as mold contaminants. Keep an eye out for anything like slime or a film on the surface of the agar. Sometimes it will only be growing within the perimeter of the mycelium and you can't really see it all until it's added to grain or transferred to another dish.
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Toadstool5
A Registered Mycophile



Registered: 01/22/15
Posts: 1,359
Loc: The Golden State
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Re: 0% Contamination (So Far) - Thoughts About Climate [Re: Kizzle]
#21967961 - 07/19/15 11:02 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
After the mounting evidence and my own laziness.. I am almost positive that 95% of contamination come from bad inoculates or dying substrates.
Quote:
Bacteria is usually what I run into when I fumble like that. It's not quite as obvious as mold contaminants. Keep an eye out for anything like slime or a film on the surface of the agar. Sometimes it will only be growing within the perimeter of the mycelium
So true! If you maintain a decent level of cleanliness in your work area, properly prepare substrates and throw them away as they exhaust, bacteria is all you will normally have to deal with.
Im sure living in a desert helps too! Imagine working in SE asia or the caribbean
-------------------- If you do not know where the mushroom products you are consuming are grown, think twice before eating them. - Paul Stamets AMU Teks Stro's Write Ups
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MikeBearPig
Not liked.


Registered: 07/15/14
Posts: 2,319
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Re: 0% Contamination (So Far) - Thoughts About Climate [Re: Toadstool5]
#21968249 - 07/20/15 12:05 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Toadstool5 said:
Quote:
After the mounting evidence and my own laziness.. I am almost positive that 95% of contamination come from bad inoculates or dying substrates.
Quote:
Bacteria is usually what I run into when I fumble like that. It's not quite as obvious as mold contaminants. Keep an eye out for anything like slime or a film on the surface of the agar. Sometimes it will only be growing within the perimeter of the mycelium
So true! If you maintain a decent level of cleanliness in your work area, properly prepare substrates and throw them away as they exhaust, bacteria is all you will normally have to deal with.
Im sure living in a desert helps too! Imagine working in SE asia or the caribbean 
What do you mean "decent level of cleanliness"
After the kids eat breakfast, I dust off the table and lay out all my jars and liquid cultures.
I boil a pot of water, suck up water 10 or so times then let it cool with the hot water in it.
I stab through aluminium lids repeatedly with a year old syringe (i fixed this finally) to get Multi-spore honey liquid culture out.
I don't bother with any fancy lids, i just drill a hole and cover it with 1 piece of Micropour tape for the PC run
I do everything open air, usually with the air conditioner on
I stab right through the tape and cover it up with 3 pieces
This is why I think contamination is bullshit..
I also let all my substrates cool with the lids off, AC on.
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Toadstool5
A Registered Mycophile



Registered: 01/22/15
Posts: 1,359
Loc: The Golden State
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Re: 0% Contamination (So Far) - Thoughts About Climate [Re: MikeBearPig]
#21968454 - 07/20/15 12:48 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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If your house doesnt have insects, rodents, mold, or dirt everywhere i consider it decently clean. Some people live in complete messes with garbage rotting everywhere and wonder why they have contam problems 
Im paranoid so i deep clean my bathroom and wipe down with bleach but there is even moldy wallpaper near the corner of the window from poor ventilation and i have no issues.
Contamination is a real issue for some rookies but the difficulty of maintaining sterility is overexaggerated in my opinion too
-------------------- If you do not know where the mushroom products you are consuming are grown, think twice before eating them. - Paul Stamets AMU Teks Stro's Write Ups
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: 0% Contamination (So Far) - Thoughts About Climate [Re: Toadstool5]
#21968559 - 07/20/15 12:58 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I wouldn't say it's difficult. I would however say developing a technique you can depend on, and being able to spot things works wonders. Noobs just need experience.
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Toadstool5
A Registered Mycophile



Registered: 01/22/15
Posts: 1,359
Loc: The Golden State
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Re: 0% Contamination (So Far) - Thoughts About Climate [Re: Mad Season]
#21968598 - 07/20/15 01:01 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Exactly!
-------------------- If you do not know where the mushroom products you are consuming are grown, think twice before eating them. - Paul Stamets AMU Teks Stro's Write Ups
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MikeBearPig
Not liked.


Registered: 07/15/14
Posts: 2,319
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Re: 0% Contamination (So Far) - Thoughts About Climate [Re: Toadstool5]
#21968674 - 07/20/15 01:07 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Toadstool5 said: If your house doesnt have insects, rodents, mold, or dirt everywhere i consider it decently clean. Some people live in complete messes with garbage rotting everywhere and wonder why they have contam problems 
Im paranoid so i deep clean my bathroom and wipe down with bleach but there is even moldy wallpaper near the corner of the window from poor ventilation and i have no issues.
Contamination is a real issue for some rookies but the difficulty of maintaining sterility is overexaggerated in my opinion too
3 kids 2 adults 2 dogs in a 2 story apartment basically
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digdog
Stranger Than Average



Registered: 04/30/15
Posts: 44
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Re: 0% Contamination (So Far) - Thoughts About Climate [Re: MikeBearPig]
#21969805 - 07/20/15 08:54 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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A lot of good input here.
It seems that maybe I am doing things right maybe and the desert helps as well.
I wipe everything down in my work area with bleach water. I clean my SAB well before and after loading it with supplies. I wipe down jars. I turn of AC and fan in work area. I PC jars for 90 minutes etc... so on and so forth.
I guess in a way I am glad that I came into this paranoid about contamination because I am starting out with decent habits and that is a good thing. I will keep up the clean habits, may be a bit of overkill but then again if I want to (at some future point) make the leap from amateur hobbyist to professional (selling mushroom related goods) then I will need to have documented processes for cleaning and safety anyway so may as well develop those habits and processes now and get used to it.
Thanks for all the input everyone
-------------------- Once I stop learning, life will cease to have meaning.
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MikeBearPig
Not liked.


Registered: 07/15/14
Posts: 2,319
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Re: 0% Contamination (So Far) - Thoughts About Climate [Re: digdog]
#21969818 - 07/20/15 08:58 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
digdog said: A lot of good input here.
It seems that maybe I am doing things right maybe and the desert helps as well.
I wipe everything down in my work area with bleach water. I clean my SAB well before and after loading it with supplies. I wipe down jars. I turn of AC and fan in work area. I PC jars for 90 minutes etc... so on and so forth.
I guess in a way I am glad that I came into this paranoid about contamination because I am starting out with decent habits and that is a good thing. I will keep up the clean habits, may be a bit of overkill but then again if I want to (at some future point) make the leap from amateur hobbyist to professional (selling mushroom related goods) then I will need to have documented processes for cleaning and safety anyway so may as well develop those habits and processes now and get used to it.
Thanks for all the input everyone 
You are doing much better than me buddy, keep it up.
I am not trying to get people to stop cleaning.. I am trying to get them to stop blaming their contamination on environmental hazards
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TheEaglesGift
The Nagual


Registered: 04/10/11
Posts: 10,554
Loc: Ixtlan, Mexico
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Re: 0% Contamination (So Far) - Thoughts About Climate [Re: digdog]
#21973408 - 07/20/15 10:40 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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You're lucky to live in a dry climate, in regards to molds.
That said, I'm sitting in a house that's 65 percent RH with a moldy bathroom and a pretty filthy fucking sink because my wife won't let anyone but her do the dishes, and she won't do them daily.
My house is like this half the year, and my contamination rate is near 0. Proper sterile technique trumps all, don't rely on the cleanliness of your home, though it is an ally.
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digdog
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Registered: 04/30/15
Posts: 44
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Re: 0% Contamination (So Far) - Thoughts About Climate [Re: TheEaglesGift]
#21975014 - 07/21/15 10:10 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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The mention here of bacteria contamination has me a bit concerned though.
Can anyone tell be what to watch out for? I will search and read up through the other posts as well.
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Toadstool5
A Registered Mycophile



Registered: 01/22/15
Posts: 1,359
Loc: The Golden State
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Re: 0% Contamination (So Far) - Thoughts About Climate [Re: digdog]
#21975030 - 07/21/15 10:12 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Slime, pooling moisture, discoloration, and sometimes weird smells, it normally happens with improper grain prep or fumbles while culturing like kizzle mentioned.
-------------------- If you do not know where the mushroom products you are consuming are grown, think twice before eating them. - Paul Stamets AMU Teks Stro's Write Ups
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: 0% Contamination (So Far) - Thoughts About Climate [Re: digdog]
#21975032 - 07/21/15 10:13 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21865514
The last posts are very good in that thread. Shows you how much bacteria can hide.
Edited by Mad Season (07/21/15 10:14 AM)
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digdog
Stranger Than Average



Registered: 04/30/15
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Re: 0% Contamination (So Far) - Thoughts About Climate [Re: Mad Season]
#21975102 - 07/21/15 10:39 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Well I am having trouble figuring this out.
I have grains in jars that get slimy as they age. See the three spots of grain. They look oily or slimy. Is this contamination?

That is a Reishi on wheat grain jar that I was testing with some added Aspen shavings.
Any help understanding would be appreciated.
-------------------- Once I stop learning, life will cease to have meaning.
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: 0% Contamination (So Far) - Thoughts About Climate [Re: digdog]
#21975110 - 07/21/15 10:42 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Looks like reishi to me
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digdog
Stranger Than Average



Registered: 04/30/15
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Re: 0% Contamination (So Far) - Thoughts About Climate [Re: Mad Season]
#21975116 - 07/21/15 10:44 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mad Season said: Looks like reishi to me 
So is that common and normal for the grain to get oily like that as Reishi ages and takes over the jar?
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Toadstool5
A Registered Mycophile



Registered: 01/22/15
Posts: 1,359
Loc: The Golden State
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Re: 0% Contamination (So Far) - Thoughts About Climate [Re: digdog]
#21975468 - 07/21/15 12:35 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Some mycelium kicks out metabolites. Shiitake blocks actually need to be "browned" before trying to fruit so i wouldnt be surprised if reishi kicks out some slime or brown dots
-------------------- If you do not know where the mushroom products you are consuming are grown, think twice before eating them. - Paul Stamets AMU Teks Stro's Write Ups
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digdog
Stranger Than Average



Registered: 04/30/15
Posts: 44
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Re: 0% Contamination (So Far) - Thoughts About Climate [Re: Toadstool5]
#21975672 - 07/21/15 01:31 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Toadstool5 said: Some mycelium kicks out metabolites. Shiitake blocks actually need to be "browned" before trying to fruit so i wouldnt be surprised if reishi kicks out some slime or brown dots 
I have sort of suspected that it was normal. It is the grains themselves that seem to exude some fluid.
I guess I will not know until I get my first straw log to pin and fruit (or not).
-------------------- Once I stop learning, life will cease to have meaning.
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Toadstool5
A Registered Mycophile



Registered: 01/22/15
Posts: 1,359
Loc: The Golden State
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Re: 0% Contamination (So Far) - Thoughts About Climate [Re: digdog]
#21980281 - 07/22/15 01:19 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I found another trusted cultivator's opinion on the matter,
Quote:
I have often said if one lives in a desert he can get away with procedures the rest of us can't. Trichoderma blooms like crazy in wet woods. I live in Seattle and it's just downwind from the Hoh rainforest, which is probably the birthplace of half the trichoderma in the northern US. In Las Vegas or Salt Lake City, one can be sloppy and get away with it. In Houston, St Louis, or any points east of that you darn well better follow proper technique. RR
-------------------- If you do not know where the mushroom products you are consuming are grown, think twice before eating them. - Paul Stamets AMU Teks Stro's Write Ups
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digdog
Stranger Than Average



Registered: 04/30/15
Posts: 44
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Re: 0% Contamination (So Far) - Thoughts About Climate [Re: Toadstool5]
#21981230 - 07/22/15 05:38 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Ahhh well I suspected that the desert helped disguise my incompetence as success 
I am lucky I guess that the humidity is so low here. The downside is the lack hard woods locally. 
Not sure about the trade off but as I am just starting out I think the lack of contaminates in the air is best.
-------------------- Once I stop learning, life will cease to have meaning.
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