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OfflineKarmaDank
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Unactive Harvest- what caused it??
    #21961383 - 07/18/15 04:55 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Hey guys-

Fairly new to this but have had 6-7 great harvests until recently. The last batch seems to be totally inactive of any magic and I can't seem to figure out why so I'm turning to you guys.

These last ones started from a frozen sport print of some creepers which historically were amazing. The substrate was the straw tek with a tad bit of lime added and nothing else.  The bags were fully colonized after about 2&1/2 to 3 weeks.

When put into fruiting a cool mist humidifier was used to keep things between 70-90% humidity. Temps were always high 60s- mid 70's A t5 light on a timer that would kick on for 6 hours daily. If it got too humid or too hot an exhaust fan would kick on low moving some air.

They really took off, but they were super skinny, almost as skinny as the straw they were growing on. The other runs of the creeps I did were also skinny, but they were a dense skinny. These came out as skinny as straw and had very little mass even when wet. After plucking they went into my drying rack screen with temps around 73.

Once they were cracker dry I sampled an eighth and the usual stomach trauma ensued, but none of the magic effects took hold! Not even a slight body buzz at all... It was very strange and I know its not a tolerance issue because I hadn't done any for over a month.  I had a few friends sample some and they reported the same.  I tried an everclear extraction as I've done before and nada... I'm Mystified.

The blocks are still flushing out more now, and I've since dialed back the humidifier a bit and have been hand misting twice a day. I'm trying to pinpoint exactly whats going on so it can be corrected... Is the T5 throwing off too much direct light? Is the humidifier keeping things too humid? Did I ruin the print by freezing it?? Fresh air exchange issues?? I'm at a loss. Any help is appreciated.


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Offlinenooberst
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Re: Unactive Harvest- what caused it?? [Re: KarmaDank]
    #21961396 - 07/18/15 04:59 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Could just be genetics since you say you started with a spore print


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OfflineAero
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Re: Unactive Harvest- what caused it?? [Re: KarmaDank]
    #21961397 - 07/18/15 04:59 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

its MS, russian roulette buddy


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Re: Unactive Harvest- what caused it?? [Re: Aero]
    #21961400 - 07/18/15 05:00 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

get into cloning :wink:


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Re: Unactive Harvest- what caused it?? [Re: Aero]
    #21961407 - 07/18/15 05:02 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

:whathesaid: should have taken some clones.

I germinated gt spores on agar 3 times and it was fluffy/tomentose every time. 4th time was the most rizmorphic of any culture I've seen yet. When working with spores it's a constant crap shoot


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Re: Unactive Harvest- what caused it?? [Re: Mad Season]
    #21961420 - 07/18/15 05:07 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

You know... I've only ever heard of this happening to people who are relatively new.  Especially the type that would be using automated setups like that.  Not sure if there's something to that or not.  You guys say spores are the likely cause but... we know that during a MS grow, there are thousands of strains growing at once, how could all of them be inactive?  What are the chances of a mutation like that?

There's something going on, I just don't know what.


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OfflineKarmaDank
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Re: Unactive Harvest- what caused it?? [Re: Inocuole]
    #21961435 - 07/18/15 05:11 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Interesting, I was under the impression if I took a print of some good genetics that I would be in essence cloning those genetics.  I guess I was misinformed on that.


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Re: Unactive Harvest- what caused it?? [Re: KarmaDank]
    #21961444 - 07/18/15 05:14 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

It shouldn't be drastically different, no, but I suppose there's the chance of a freak mutation strain that has fast colonization time, therefore overtaking the others, but almost no actives, and being the only thing that ends up fruiting.  But the chances of that are ridiculously low.


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Re: Unactive Harvest- what caused it?? [Re: Inocuole]
    #21961456 - 07/18/15 05:18 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Inocuole said:
You know... I've only ever heard of this happening to people who are relatively new.  Especially the type that would be using automated setups like that.  Not sure if there's something to that or not.  You guys say spores are the likely cause but... we know that during a MS grow, there are thousands of strains growing at once, how could all of them be inactive?  What are the chances of a mutation like that?

There's something going on, I just don't know what.




There is indeed something going on! My expertise is with growing weed and I'm a total noob at this... I had a controller from a weed grow that is used in my fruiting room. It has the light on a timer, kicks on the fan if 95% humidity is exceeded, or if it gets above 76F.  I thought with these settings I would more or less be in the ballpark.

The only difference on this run were 3 things: 1. the addition of a coolmist humidifier, 2. changing the substrate from BRF/Birdseed (it did produce some amazing stuff by my incidence of contams was way high, since switching to the straw tek I had no bags contam, but the product thus far is void of all magic) 3. I started from a spore print, let that bag colonize, then turned that one into a few more.


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Re: Unactive Harvest- what caused it?? [Re: KarmaDank]
    #21961472 - 07/18/15 05:22 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

KarmaDank said:
Quote:

Inocuole said:
You know... I've only ever heard of this happening to people who are relatively new.  Especially the type that would be using automated setups like that.  Not sure if there's something to that or not.  You guys say spores are the likely cause but... we know that during a MS grow, there are thousands of strains growing at once, how could all of them be inactive?  What are the chances of a mutation like that?

There's something going on, I just don't know what.




There is indeed something going on! My expertise is with growing weed and I'm a total noob at this... I had a controller from a weed grow that is used in my fruiting room. It has the light on a timer, kicks on the fan if 95% humidity is exceeded, or if it gets above 76F.  I thought with these settings I would more or less be in the ballpark.

The only difference on this run were 3 things: 1. the addition of a coolmist humidifier, 2. changing the substrate from BRF/Birdseed (it did produce some amazing stuff by my incidence of contams was way high, since switching to the straw tek I had no bags contam, but the product thus far is void of all magic) 3. I started from a spore print, let that bag colonize, then turned that one into a few more.




i heard people complaining about the potency when using straw, try to get some horse manure


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Re: Unactive Harvest- what caused it?? [Re: Aero]
    #21961639 - 07/18/15 06:01 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Ah, that might be something too, most only recommend straw as a supplement to a more rounded bulk substrate. 

Is your setup some kind of greenhouse thing, OP?  If so, those can work, but it's still way easier to calibrate a SGFC than to dial in a greenhouse.  No gauges or electronics needed.


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Re: Unactive Harvest- what caused it?? [Re: Inocuole]
    #21962353 - 07/18/15 08:48 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks for all the input so fast. There's a lot to learn on the subject and I'm all ears.

I'll try to add some manure and gypsum next time and see if that yields a different result.

No, this is not a greenhouse allthough I do dream of stuff like that... The fruiting space is just a small closet.


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Re: Unactive Harvest- what caused it?? [Re: KarmaDank]
    #21964431 - 07/19/15 11:03 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I did several hours of searching the forum and have found a ton of conflicting info on the ideal temps/humidity for fruiting.  Some posts say 70 with 100% humidity, others say mid 70's etc... I know it's not an exact science and there is a learning curve based on what your growing, but what is the ballpark I should be aiming for both for colonization and fruiting?


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Re: Unactive Harvest- what caused it?? [Re: KarmaDank]
    #21964522 - 07/19/15 11:24 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah you have some whack spores. Get a different strain and grow out. Many would argue on here that its just set and setting as to why you had the bad trip but we know that isn't true since your friends tried it too and had the same results.

Care to share with me what vendor u bought ur spores from? (Pm would be fine...)


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Re: Unactive Harvest- what caused it?? [Re: KarmaDank]
    #21964705 - 07/19/15 12:23 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

KarmaDank said:
I did several hours of searching the forum and have found a ton of conflicting info on the ideal temps/humidity for fruiting.  Some posts say 70 with 100% humidity, others say mid 70's etc... I know it's not an exact science and there is a learning curve based on what your growing, but what is the ballpark I should be aiming for both for colonization and fruiting?




Ballpark is exactly what you said.  70-75 is perfect.    Any hotter and any colder starts to cause issues.  Don't even measure humidity, if you try to do that you'll never actually learn to grow.  Just follow instructions and the humidity will be there.


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Re: Unactive Harvest- what caused it?? [Re: Inocuole]
    #21964774 - 07/19/15 12:41 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

100% humidity in a grow chamber is a guarantee for a soaked substrate. I doubt my monotubs get higher than 70% RH.


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Re: Unactive Harvest- what caused it?? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #21964790 - 07/19/15 12:43 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
100% humidity in a grow chamber is a guarantee for a soaked substrate. I doubt my monotubs get higher than 70% RH.



Quizzled For Trizzle.

:snoop:


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Re: Unactive Harvest- what caused it?? [Re: Inocuole]
    #21968086 - 07/19/15 11:20 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Ok cool I'm gonna apply all this, tweak it and see how it turns out. Bhahha quizZled I love it.:crazy2:

The strain is the creepers, they were pretty amazing right out of the syringe but I was getting too many contams using BRF. The flushes I did get off the ones that made it to fruit were very potent! My initial 2 grams sample really had me quite stuck!! I thought this was unusual as I consider myself seasoned in the consumption department but was really impressed by the genetics..

Anyways, so I took a spore print of these guys before I moved and stored it away in the freezer.  After getting settled in at my new pad and doing endless research on here lurking for a better tec that wouldn't contam at the rate of BRF, I settled on straw RR tek. So I broke out the spores I had frozen for two months, and started two jars in BRF/birdseed again to get things going. The jars took off and colonized beautifully, so I prepared the straw and unleashed the colonized into the straw bags. They all took off but the first flush is what spurred me to post as they seriously seemed to lack any magic...

They are still rolling and are on there 2nd flush now and I'll hopefully be able to sample some of these this week which should help me further pinpoint what's going on. I don't know if I zapped them drying, let them go too long and they dropped spores, it got too hot, too humid not enough nutes in the straw sub or what exactly... Process of elimination at this point but I dialed back the humidity and went back to hand misting (like I said above the first flush were seriously and airy as a piece of straw- I if too much humidity from the newly added humidifier was just over saturating)

I'm trying to think through all the factors and there's a lot that was changed from the first go of it in BRF, so it's really a crap shoot trying to pin point. I guess I'll know fersure if this next batch that are drying now are inactive that it is some sort of issue with the spores. My space in the new place is a bit different and I'm still trying to figure out the right amount of FAE needed... I've found a lot of different info on this too so it's a bit confusing.


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Re: Unactive Harvest- what caused it?? [Re: KarmaDank]
    #21968127 - 07/19/15 11:27 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Potency is genetic.  If you want consistency then learn agar and clone or isolate.


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Re: Unactive Harvest- what caused it?? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #21968224 - 07/19/15 11:52 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
Potency is genetic.  If you want consistency then learn agar and clone or isolate.




Thanks man I'm gonna look into this now. I must have been a tad too baked when I did my initial research. I was seriously under the impression a spore print would preserve the genetics. Dooee :confused:

I'm a bit familiar with agar from science courses and what not but obviously i need to be schooled on the matter. If you have any good TEK's describing the process that would also be appreciated. In the mean time I'll scour the forum and try to bring myself up to speed. Thanks again for all the input from everybody. :mushroom2:


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Re: Unactive Harvest- what caused it?? [Re: KarmaDank]
    #21968243 - 07/20/15 12:02 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Spores are more of a lineage rather than specific genetics. If two people have 10 kids will they all be identical because they had the same parents? Doubtfull. Some will be taller some smarter. Some will be strong some will be good looking. There might be a retard in the mix. However cloning and isolation will yield the exact same thing every time.


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Re: Unactive Harvest- what caused it?? [Re: KarmaDank]
    #21969325 - 07/20/15 05:31 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I agree with what pastye said on the cloning/isolation. :thumbup:

I can rule out some factors for you. It's most likely not your drying or when you harvested the shrooms. The different substrate may be the issue but I highly doubt it...
Could be a problem with your fae and humidity.

Anyways, all those factors are weak imo in determining potency. You could try those same prints again and maybe it'll give you better genetics. i'm thinking maybe spores dont like hanging out in the freezer? Idk...

Keep us updated! Interesting study!

Oh btw im also interested in where u got ur creepers from? (Pm would be nice)

And also, how were your trips differing in potency? Care to share a trip report on the first time on brf?

Did the fruits look the same the first time on brf as it did on straw?


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Re: Unactive Harvest- what caused it?? [Re: Leviticus969]
    #21969526 - 07/20/15 07:12 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Any chance you have pictures of your setup and fruits?

Have you always used that light in growing mushrooms?


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Re: Unactive Harvest- what caused it?? [Re: Grey]
    #21976153 - 07/21/15 03:39 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

No I haven't always used the T5. When I moved and started fresh, I changed substrates and a bunch of different factors so nailing down the issue is hard. The creeper strain came from SD if i remember correctly, and right out of the syringe they were amazing. The jars colonized very quickly and produced some very potent fruits. Perhaps freezing the spore print was a no no... I read somewhere that was a good way to preserve the print. Or it could be that when I actually did the moving into my new house they thawed and got funky. Who knows..

I have another batch that came out much better looking than the first flush which I hopefully can sample tonight. 

If these are active then its either that I fuckedup going nuts with the cool mist humidifier, or I zapped them in the drying process somehow by letting them get too hot, or I let them go too long and allowed them to drop spores.  But if these are still inactive then its gotta be an issue with the spore print that I took.

I will try to get some pictures up soon. I'm not too keen on taking them with my cellphone and would perfer to do it with a digital cam


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Re: Unactive Harvest- what caused it?? [Re: KarmaDank]
    #21976164 - 07/21/15 03:41 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Its not hard.  Its genetics. Easy.


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Re: Unactive Harvest- what caused it?? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #21976191 - 07/21/15 03:47 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

:whathesaid: sometimes you get crap genetics and bomb genetics from the same syringe, from the same small spot on the print.

Sometimes ya gotta bite the bullet and restart. Get some clones if you get good genetics :smile:


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