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OfflinePsilosoulful

Registered: 09/05/14
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Are these rye grains too dry???
    #21959821 - 07/18/15 09:47 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

So I recently made some rye jars. I soaked for 24 hours, then rinsed and drained. I had to soak an additional 12 hours because I couldn't use the PC at that time. After that, I rinsed and drained again and put them in a pot to simmer for about 20 min. I strained and did not do a rinse of the hot grains(my understanding is that adding cold water to the grains at this point will only extend the drying process). So, I let them sit out and dry up a bit on a window screen. Here's what they looked like just before loading them up:

I PC'd them at 15 psi for 90 minutes. At the end of the cycle, I moved the PC to another rack on the stove to let it cool down. After about three hours, I took my rye jars out and gave them a good shake to redistribute the moisture. After sitting on my shelf for a day, here's how they're looking:  

I'm not very experienced with rye (obviously), so I'm not sure if the grains have proper moisture content or not. Either way, I will be testing out my LI syringe on them soon (made from a colonized brf paste jar). :smile:



Edited by Psilosoulful (07/18/15 05:36 PM)


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InvisibleJuiceh
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Re: 2nd time prepping rye jars... [Re: Psilosoulful]
    #21959871 - 07/18/15 10:06 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Moisture content looks pretty good and ready for a healthy LI shot. They look a tad on the dry side, but your gonna ad a bit more moisture, so after inoculation it will probably be right on.


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OfflinePsilosoulful

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Re: 2nd time prepping rye jars... [Re: Juiceh]
    #21960070 - 07/18/15 11:11 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks dude. Do you think I should leave the LI syringe out for a bit before innoculating or it doesn't matter if it's not room temp?


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OfflineSokamin
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Re: 2nd time prepping rye jars... [Re: Psilosoulful]
    #21960542 - 07/18/15 01:07 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I always let my syringe sit for 24-48 hours at room temperature. From what I know it needs to hydrate at room temperature or in an incubator before injecting it into the rye.


--------------------
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OfflinePsilosoulful

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Re: 2nd time prepping rye jars... [Re: Sokamin]
    #21960596 - 07/18/15 01:18 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

That's what i hear most people do, but won't the mycelium be active either way. Does temp of the solution really make a big difference? I mean it should still colonize the grains. And I don't want to keep the syringe out for too long because I'm thinking it might contaminate :shrug:


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OfflineSokamin
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Re: 2nd time prepping rye jars... [Re: Psilosoulful]
    #21960640 - 07/18/15 01:29 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

If the syringe is sterile and kept in a sterile environment (a zip-lock bag f.e.) then it should not be able to get contaminated.

I think it's not the fact that it doesn't start colonizing the rye, but that it does it faster when hydrated.


--------------------
~~ keep growing, keep printing, keep tripping ~~
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Working on: | Brazil | Colum. Rust. | Guadalajara | Syzygy | Vietnam |


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OfflinePsilosoulful

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Re: 2nd time prepping rye jars... [Re: Sokamin]
    #21960809 - 07/18/15 02:23 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Okay I'll try that :thumbup:


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OfflinePsilosoulful

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Re: 2nd time prepping rye jars... [Re: Psilosoulful]
    #21961897 - 07/18/15 07:05 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Also, the grains look split and when I shake the jar, the outer shell of the grains seem really soft(over-soaking i bet). But, I'm keeping my fingers crossed that they are still able to colonize well. :undecided:


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OfflinefirstTIMER420
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Re: 2nd time prepping rye jars... [Re: Psilosoulful]
    #21962329 - 07/18/15 08:42 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I found when I soaked mine for 24 hrs they seemed too wet.  I soaked for 17 hours this time(prepping right now actually) and it seems fine, going to take them out of the PC in an hour or so, ill let you know then


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OfflinePsilosoulful

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Re: 2nd time prepping rye jars... [Re: firstTIMER420]
    #21962475 - 07/18/15 09:22 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

firstTIMER420 said:
I found when I soaked mine for 24 hrs they seemed too wet.  I soaked for 17 hours this time(prepping right now actually) and it seems fine, going to take them out of the PC in an hour or so, ill let you know then



Yeah i always soaked my grains for 24 hours and they end up soft on the outside(thought this was normal:shrug:), but maybe 12-16 hours will work better for me next time, followed by longer simmering. And also I'm not sure if it is a good idea to rinse the grains immediately after simmering? I skipped that step on this batch of jars, maybe that's why they ended up on the drier side.


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InvisibleJuiceh
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Re: 2nd time prepping rye jars... [Re: Psilosoulful]
    #21962483 - 07/18/15 09:24 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Psilosoulful said:
Thanks dude. Do you think I should leave the LI syringe out for a bit before innoculating or it doesn't matter if it's not room temp?



I don't think it matters much at all. Is the LI being stored in the fridge? As soon as or very quickly after the LI is mixed into the grains the temperature of the LI will be the same temp as the grains.


Quote:

Psilosoulful said:
Also, the grains look split and when I shake the jar, the outer shell of the grains seem really soft(over-soaking i bet). But, I'm keeping my fingers crossed that they are still able to colonize well. :undecided:



FWIW those rye grains look just like the way rye turned out when I last did a big batch of em 2 years ago. They worked perfectly, just too expensive to keep using in volume. I soaked 24 hrs, brought to a boil, then steam dried for ~90 mins on a screen in front of a fan, and PCd for 90 mins at 15psi in qt jars.

I never simmer, or rinse after the boil.


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OfflinePsilosoulful

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Re: 2nd time prepping rye jars... [Re: Juiceh]
    #21962565 - 07/18/15 09:52 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

I don't think it matters much at all. Is the LI being stored in the fridge? As soon as or very quickly after the LI is mixed into the grains the temperature of the LI will be the same temp as the grains.



Yes I have been storing it in the fridge. I took it out like 4 hours ago to let it get to room temp. Thanks for the tip, I was told to let it sit out for like 24 or more hours, but I think I might go ahead and squirt some solution into the grain jars right now! :dancer:





Quote:

FWIW those rye grains look just like the way rye turned out when I last did a big batch of em 2 years ago. They worked perfectly, just too expensive to keep using in volume. I soaked 24 hrs, brought to a boil, then steam dried for ~90 mins on a screen in front of a fan, and PCd for 90 mins at 15psi in qt jars.

I never simmer, or rinse after the boil.



Cool that's good to hear. Rye can definitely get very expensive, that's why I stick to the good 'ole WBS! :lol:


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InvisibleJuiceh
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Re: 2nd time prepping rye jars... [Re: Psilosoulful]
    #21962693 - 07/18/15 10:40 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I just ran my last batch of WBS a few days ago. Gonna start working down this massive amount of oats I picked up for even cheaper than WBS!


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OfflineCharleskun
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Re: 2nd time prepping rye jars... [Re: Juiceh]
    #21962700 - 07/18/15 10:43 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Juiceh said:
I just ran my last batch of WBS a few days ago. Gonna start working down this massive amount of oats I picked up for even cheaper than WBS!




Are oats any good? Ive seen them around a lot but have never given them a shot.


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Re: 2nd time prepping rye jars... [Re: Charleskun]
    #21962718 - 07/18/15 10:46 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Whole oats from a feed store are what I have. Lots of people are making the switch and loving them. I'm gonna process some tomorrow. Haven't done any yet, I been slacking. LoL


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OfflinePsilosoulful

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Re: 2nd time prepping rye jars... [Re: Juiceh]
    #21962818 - 07/18/15 11:14 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I haven't tried oats yet, but heard they are really easy to prep. Almost all of the WBS I have worked with have had a lot of cracked corn/sunflower seeds in it, it's really annoying trying to get all the little pieces out. I'll be making the switch to oats when I get a new pack of jars! :grin:


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InvisibleJuiceh
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Re: 2nd time prepping rye jars... [Re: Psilosoulful]
    #21962880 - 07/18/15 11:28 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

The pennington wbs I used had very minimal cracked corn. I use the sunflower seeds.


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OfflineGr0wer
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Re: 2nd time prepping rye jars... [Re: Juiceh]
    #21963176 - 07/19/15 12:49 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Looks like you may have soaked too long. Your rye is starting to grow roots it seems.

Psilosoulful, I've prepped over 100 jars of WBS, I never remove anything from the mix. Sunflower seeds, sticks, straw, and empty hulls all colonize just like any other grain and spread myc just like any other as well. Why throw something out you paid for and didn't use? I've used wheat before, not a big fan because there are less inoculation points per volume when i use it as spawn. Milo is nice because its small and all uniform and cleaner than WBS but 100% millet would be best since there so small, faster colonization with the same spawn ratio. Only thing is i cant source 100% millet where i'm at, at least not in 40-50 lb sacks.


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OfflinePsilosoulful

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Re: 2nd time prepping rye jars... [Re: Gr0wer]
    #21963903 - 07/19/15 09:05 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Gr0wer said:
Looks like you may have soaked too long. Your rye is starting to grow roots it seems.

Psilosoulful, I've prepped over 100 jars of WBS, I never remove anything from the mix. Sunflower seeds, sticks, straw, and empty hulls all colonize just like any other grain and spread myc just like any other as well. Why throw something out you paid for and didn't use? I've used wheat before, not a big fan because there are less inoculation points per volume when i use it as spawn. Milo is nice because its small and all uniform and cleaner than WBS but 100% millet would be best since there so small, faster colonization with the same spawn ratio. Only thing is i cant source 100% millet where i'm at, at least not in 40-50 lb sacks.



I haven't tried millet, looks really easy to prep with less mess. Do you think mixing millet with another grain would be a good idea to increase the nutrient content of the spawn? Something like millet/rye or rye/oats? I haven't heard of people doing this, maybe I'll give it a try.

Also, last time i went to Walmart to get some WBS, I noticed that they changed the look of the economy mix bag. It's called Wild bird feed instead of wild bird seed, and there's loads of cracked corn in it. Idk, it's literally unusable.


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Re: 2nd time prepping rye jars... [Re: Psilosoulful]
    #21963958 - 07/19/15 09:28 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

If you weigh your grains before and after soaking or cooking you can easily monitor the moisture levels.


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Re: 2nd time prepping rye jars... [Re: Psilosoulful]
    #21963983 - 07/19/15 09:34 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Psilosoulful said:
Also, last time i went to Walmart to get some WBS, I noticed that they changed the look of the economy mix bag. It's called Wild bird feed instead of wild bird seed, and there's loads of cracked corn in it. Idk, it's literally unusable.



If you can find these bags at walmart they should have minimal cracked corn and the mix is nearly identical to the economy mix you are used to:


I just killed off a few bags of this stuff.


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Edited by Juiceh (07/19/15 09:36 AM)


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OfflinePsilosoulful

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Re: 2nd time prepping rye jars... [Re: Juiceh]
    #21964678 - 07/19/15 12:13 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Juiceh said:
Quote:

Psilosoulful said:
Also, last time i went to Walmart to get some WBS, I noticed that they changed the look of the economy mix bag. It's called Wild bird feed instead of wild bird seed, and there's loads of cracked corn in it. Idk, it's literally unusable.



If you can find these bags at walmart they should have minimal cracked corn and the mix is nearly identical to the economy mix you are used to:


I just killed off a few bags of this stuff.



Cool I'll definitely look for it when i go out to Walmart. It sucks buying a bag of bird seed with cracked corn. It's awkward trying to return it. I guess I just have to walk up to the customer service desk with the 40lb bag and say "the birds don't like this mix" and get my 8$ back :lmafo:


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OfflineCharleskun
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Re: 2nd time prepping rye jars... [Re: blackout]
    #21968750 - 07/20/15 01:19 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

blackout said:
If you weigh your grains before and after soaking or cooking you can easily monitor the moisture levels.




How would you go about doing this?


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OfflineShroominMe
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Re: 2nd time prepping rye jars... [Re: Psilosoulful]
    #21968870 - 07/20/15 01:47 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Psilosoulful said:
It's awkward trying to return it. I guess I just have to walk up to the customer service desk with the 40lb bag and say "the birds don't like this mix" and get my 8$ back :lmafo:



Just tell them your wife/girlfriend already bought some.  Or just shrug and say you don't want it.  Trust me, they do not give a shit.

Gvt mileage reimbursement is $0.55 per mile.  So unless you're driving less than a total of 15 miles round trip I'd just keep it.  And this isn't accounting for your valuable time.

Less time spent at WallyWorld = better.


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OfflineGr0wer
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Re: 2nd time prepping rye jars... [Re: ShroominMe]
    #21970526 - 07/20/15 12:23 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Cracked corn isn't an end all. It still works just a slightly higher contam risk.


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Re: Are these rye grains too dry??? [Re: Psilosoulful]
    #21970654 - 07/20/15 01:07 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Psilosoulful said:
So I recently made some rye jars. I soaked for 24 hours, then rinsed and drained. I had to soak an additional 12 hours because I couldn't use the PC at that time. After that, I rinsed and drained again and put them in a pot to simmer for about 20 min. I strained and did not do a rinse of the hot grains(my understanding is that adding cold water to the grains at this point will only extend the drying process). So, I let them sit out and dry up a bit on a window screen. Here's what they looked like just before loading them up:

I PC'd them at 15 psi for 90 minutes. At the end of the cycle, I moved the PC to another rack on the stove to let it cool down. After about three hours, I took my rye jars out and gave them a good shake to redistribute the moisture. After sitting on my shelf for a day, here's how they're looking:  

I'm not very experienced with rye (obviously), so I'm not sure if the grains have proper moisture content or not. Either way, I will be testing out my LI syringe on them soon (made from a colonized brf paste jar). :smile:






Your rye berries look exactly like the last batch I prepared. My berries colonized beautifully.


--------------------
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OfflinefirstTIMER420
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Re: Are these rye grains too dry??? [Re: jesuisravi]
    #21970761 - 07/20/15 01:34 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Mine looked similar to yours, and ive been having a lot of people tell me they look like shit.

Right after PCing:

6 days later:

What you think?

I haven't had any signs of colonization yet though :sad:


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Edited by firstTIMER420 (07/20/15 01:34 PM)


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OfflinePsilosoulful

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Re: Are these rye grains too dry??? [Re: jesuisravi]
    #21970804 - 07/20/15 01:45 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

jesuisravi said:
Quote:

Psilosoulful said:
So I recently made some rye jars. I soaked for 24 hours, then rinsed and drained. I had to soak an additional 12 hours because I couldn't use the PC at that time. After that, I rinsed and drained again and put them in a pot to simmer for about 20 min. I strained and did not do a rinse of the hot grains(my understanding is that adding cold water to the grains at this point will only extend the drying process). So, I let them sit out and dry up a bit on a window screen. Here's what they looked like just before loading them up:

I PC'd them at 15 psi for 90 minutes. At the end of the cycle, I moved the PC to another rack on the stove to let it cool down. After about three hours, I took my rye jars out and gave them a good shake to redistribute the moisture. After sitting on my shelf for a day, here's how they're looking:  

I'm not very experienced with rye (obviously), so I'm not sure if the grains have proper moisture content or not. Either way, I will be testing out my LI syringe on them soon (made from a colonized brf paste jar). :smile:






Your rye berries look exactly like the last batch I prepared. My berries colonized beautifully.



That's good to hear!! :smile: I'm still waiting on signs of colonization, I injected some LI solution in each jar two days ago. How long do you think it'll take to see some growth?


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OfflinePsilosoulful

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Re: Are these rye grains too dry??? [Re: firstTIMER420]
    #21970820 - 07/20/15 01:49 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

firstTIMER420 said:
Mine looked similar to yours, and ive been having a lot of people tell me they look like shit.

Right after PCing:

6 days later:

What you think?

I haven't had any signs of colonization yet though :sad:



They look a little more hydrated than my jars. Did you use an MS syringe?


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OfflinefirstTIMER420
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Re: Are these rye grains too dry??? [Re: Psilosoulful]
    #21970896 - 07/20/15 02:13 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

yup.


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OfflinePsilosoulful

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Re: Are these rye grains too dry??? [Re: firstTIMER420]
    #21971021 - 07/20/15 02:34 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Growth could take awhile then. When I used MS, I didn't see growth until at least a week after inoculating.


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OfflinefirstTIMER420
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Re: Are these rye grains too dry??? [Re: Psilosoulful]
    #21972542 - 07/20/15 07:49 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I gotcha, I just hope they have enough moisture content and that they don't contam, if my first round of jars was successful thatd be awesome.

how easy is LC? never really read that in depth into it but from what ive seen its pretty easy to get contams.

also, whats the inoculation time from compared to agar


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OfflineDarkhome
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Re: 2nd time prepping rye jars... [Re: Juiceh]
    #21972604 - 07/20/15 08:01 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Juiceh said:
Quote:

Psilosoulful said:
Also, last time i went to Walmart to get some WBS, I noticed that they changed the look of the economy mix bag. It's called Wild bird feed instead of wild bird seed, and there's loads of cracked corn in it. Idk, it's literally unusable.



If you can find these bags at walmart they should have minimal cracked corn and the mix is nearly identical to the economy mix you are used to:


I just killed off a few bags of this stuff.



I use that same WBS...but thinking of switching to oats as well...checking sources for oats while I finish off a bag of seed
I'm going to try a new prep method...if it works I'll start a new thread


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Re: 2nd time prepping rye jars... [Re: Charleskun]
    #21975928 - 07/21/15 02:50 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Charleskun said:
Quote:

blackout said:
If you weigh your grains before and after soaking or cooking you can easily monitor the moisture levels.




How would you go about doing this?



You just weigh them before and after. 1ml of water is approx 1 gram

e.g. on my last batch I cooked 1kg of barley at 5psi for 20mins to hydrate it. I strained it out keeping the hot water and it weighed 1.8kg. I wanted 1ml to 1g of dry barley, so I knew I had to cook it longer. So it went back into the hot water and was boiled for another 10mins or so and came out at approx the correct weight, about 2kg.

I will often weigh jars with grains too, I can see a little moisture is lost during the PC cycle.

I hear all sorts of claims people have like "incubating dries grains out" and people worried that their grains have dried out since they did not use them. If you simply weigh jars you can see if this is true. If grains have dried out you can add moisture back in the form of LC, or even distilled water.

I have cooked grains and dried them out completely in a microwave and added all the mositure back as LC, which results in rapid colonisation. Or I have partially dried grains in the microwave so I could add lots of LC.

Working with semi dry grains does not work nearly as well, it is best to have them hydrated and then dried out.

I heat treat my coir like this too, I get it to field capacity, weigh it and the container, add say 200ml/200g of water and microwave it for about 30mins until it returns to its original weight. This means shit loads of steam is generated in the tub and it heats far more evenly.


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