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Offlineunsui888
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How would you interpret this event...?
    #21958813 - 07/18/15 12:08 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

So my brother has a pretty interesting experience he's had on mushrooms... he ate about an 8th and at some point during the trip he was looking off the reflection of a mirror out some window of our parent's bathroom, and he had some vision of being in some place with very bright artistic tiles and a window that overlooked an ocean.

Well about 2 years after this mushroom experience, my brother was in Spain traveling with his girlfriend. He then entered the place they were staying at, went over to the window, and then had essentially a flashback and realized that he was in the exact same room with those distinct colorful tiles that he had glimpsed into 2 years prior on the mushroom trip. It was if the mushrooms allowed him to glimpse into his future timeline for a moment, and then that moment happened later on - a sort of precognition.

What else could possibly explain this?


--------------------
"a note for asses: what is very convincing, is not necessarily true - it is merely convincing"

primus------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------mama didn't raise no fool


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Invisibleo8u
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Re: How would you interpret this event...? [Re: unsui888]
    #21958919 - 07/18/15 12:41 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

What else could possibly explain this?




Coincidence, false memory, self-fulfilling prophecy, etc. If I'm wrong and you can prove it, there's a million bucks waiting for you: http://web.randi.org/the-million-dollar-challenge.html


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InvisiblezZZz
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Re: How would you interpret this event...? [Re: unsui888]
    #21959008 - 07/18/15 01:29 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

or maybe he was in the future when he saw it and what he was seeing was actually the past?...

so many ways to interpret it, my friend..

he could be right tho

but tell him he might want to keep it to himself or they;ll send him off to the looney bin


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OfflineHippocampus
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Re: How would you interpret this event...? [Re: unsui888] * 1
    #21959020 - 07/18/15 01:33 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Confabulation

After seeing the window in Spain, your brother then altered his memory of his mushroom trip to match.  Confabulation happens all the time and the person it happens to cannot tell the difference between their previous truer memory, and the new, slightly different one.   

The brain does not store memory like a computer.  Each time you remember something your synaptic pathways fire in a particular way and your brain creates that memory again.  In this way your memories are like a game of telephone.  And each time you remember them, there is another chance for it to be altered in some way.


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OfflinewakeINpeople
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Re: How would you interpret this event...? [Re: zZZz]
    #21959021 - 07/18/15 01:33 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Life is an amazing mystery, strange how we always think we know it all.  There is so much magic out there, so much to yet discover....


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Invisiblenight_shift
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Re: How would you interpret this event...? *DELETED* [Re: unsui888]
    #21959343 - 07/18/15 05:18 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Post deleted by night_shift

Reason for deletion: [delete]


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Offlineunsui888
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Re: How would you interpret this event...? [Re: night_shift]
    #21963062 - 07/19/15 12:12 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I know what a confabulation is... but he has very good and detailed memory of things, especially art because he's an artist.

He was in the room at Spain and then felt a very strange thing take over, making him feel like he had already been there. So he started to look at the place and it was the same tiles and everything... and, he was sober in Spain.


--------------------
"a note for asses: what is very convincing, is not necessarily true - it is merely convincing"

primus------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------mama didn't raise no fool


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: How would you interpret this event...? [Re: unsui888]
    #21963077 - 07/19/15 12:16 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Yes, we must toss out everything we have ever learned about neurology and psychology and discard the millions of similar events in which people were shown to have been mistaken and instead opt for magic! :cookiemonster:

:magicfingers:


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Invisiblecez
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Re: How would you interpret this event...? [Re: unsui888]
    #21963097 - 07/19/15 12:22 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Do you want us to tell you he's a prophet or something?


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Offlineunsui888
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Re: How would you interpret this event...? [Re: cez]
    #21963183 - 07/19/15 12:50 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

No, I was essentially just wondering if psychedelics could essentially show us glimpses into future life events... but yeah, probably just a confabulation/false memory.


--------------------
"a note for asses: what is very convincing, is not necessarily true - it is merely convincing"

primus------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------mama didn't raise no fool


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: How would you interpret this event...? [Re: unsui888]
    #21963312 - 07/19/15 01:55 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Synchronicity.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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OfflineArctic W. Fox
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Re: How would you interpret this event...? [Re: sudly]
    #21963357 - 07/19/15 02:28 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I've had a similar experience:

In a dream, I was walking on a sidewalk of a steep road. To my right, there were "tall" houses. When I looked to the left, there was a brick building being built in an empty lot. I wondered what it was going to be, then tripped on a lifted edge of the sidewalk, and woke up.

Many years later, I was in a small town, walking on a sidewalk of a steep road. To my right, there were two-story houses. When I looked to the left, there was a brick-built police station. I stopped and thought, "that's a weird deja vu thing". When I started walking again, I tripped on a lifted part of the sidewalk and fell down.

This was before mushrooms. :undecided:


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Invisiblecez
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Re: How would you interpret this event...? [Re: unsui888] * 1
    #21964519 - 07/19/15 11:23 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

unsui888 said:
No, I was essentially just wondering if psychedelics could essentially show us glimpses into future life events... but yeah, probably just a confabulation/false memory.




Ime they produce delusions of grandeur.  Nothing made me feel more special and believe in a greater future than the psychedelic experience.  After many trips over these past 8 years I see the hubris of believing in the PE.  It's all smoke n mirrors and not anything more imo.


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InvisibleKurt
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Re: How would you interpret this event...? [Re: cez]
    #21965791 - 07/19/15 03:23 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Do you really not believe it is possible to understand what is and isn't during psychedelic experience in general? Assuming you were speaking about your own experiences, for example; what would you mean by a general paradigm of PE?

I think generally people like to hedge a bit to talk about subjective experiences. I don't know what to call it. I think probably it will be a lot more significantly something between the OP and his brother, than the OP and us, for instance. Probably, speculating about someone else's experience one way or another, in various degrees of removal is dogmatic in one sense or another.

Hubris is a pretty general term. I wonder how well it refers to considerations of what people can and can't know in modern epistemelogical discussions...

When I think of hubris I think of Homeric heroes yelling someone down across the battlefield. Probably it was about disembowling and eating someone's liver for dinner, with poetic glosses.

So what is "hubristic" about psychedelic experience, or discussion of them? It seems more like an edgy and pretensious way to hedge one's personal views through personal indignation, rather than anything really descriptive, in general, unless you're some kind of grecophile.

The eyes which look down are not only culturally speaking, of a monistic shame God, they are also pretty much of an equivocally dead God to our more recent present. This is just epistemelogical discussion where people get emotionally vested in mostly ironic ways.

These are "views from nowhere", as Thomas Nagal put it.


Edited by Kurt (07/19/15 05:08 PM)


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: How would you interpret this event...? [Re: unsui888]
    #21967574 - 07/19/15 10:11 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Sounds like a precognitive event. No need to reduce the coincidence of perceptions to less robust hypotheses just because they fit into some non-parapsychological framework. Precognition, psychokinesis (overwhelming emotions having an effect on electronics) and telepathy are things I have experienced. Dr. Bob Brier's influence on me in college (he worked and published with J.B. Rhine at University of North Carolina) helped me weather the poo-poos of those pedestrians  who simply never experienced these functions.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Invisiblecez
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Re: How would you interpret this event...? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #21968046 - 07/19/15 11:15 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Kurt said:
Do you really not believe it is possible to understand what is and isn't during psychedelic experience in general? Assuming you were speaking about your own experiences, for example; what would you mean by a general paradigm of PE?

I think generally people like to hedge a bit to talk about subjective experiences. I don't know what to call it. I think probably it will be a lot more significantly something between the OP and his brother, than the OP and us, for instance. Probably, speculating about someone else's experience one way or another, in various degrees of removal is dogmatic in one sense or another.

Hubris is a pretty general term. I wonder how well it refers to considerations of what people can and can't know in modern epistemelogical discussions...

When I think of hubris I think of Homeric heroes yelling someone down across the battlefield. Probably it was about disembowling and eating someone's liver for dinner, with poetic glosses.

So what is "hubristic" about psychedelic experience, or discussion of them? It seems more like an edgy and pretensious way to hedge one's personal views through personal indignation, rather than anything really descriptive, in general, unless you're some kind of grecophile.

The eyes which look down are not only culturally speaking, of a monistic shame God, they are also pretty much of an equivocally dead God to our more recent present. This is just epistemelogical discussion where people get emotionally vested in mostly ironic ways.

These are "views from nowhere", as Thomas Nagal put it.




Weird stuff happens and when you try to come up with explanations, you get things such as time travel, telepathy, psychokinesis, aliens etc.

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Sounds like a precognitive event. No need to reduce the coincidence of perceptions to less robust hypotheses just because they fit into some non-parapsychological framework. Precognition, psychokinesis (overwhelming emotions having an effect on electronics) and telepathy are things I have experienced. Dr. Bob Brier's influence on me in college (he worked and published with J.B. Rhine at University of North Carolina) helped me weather the poo-poos of those pedestrians  who simply never experienced these functions.




This is case and point.  I think a good amount of psychedelic drug users have experienced this stuff.  When you talk about the experience, it sounds self-righteous and delusional imo.  I'm not saying it's wrong to speak of, but you can't logically explain it and when you try you can't help but reek of specialness, even if that's not your intention.  The experience is too vast.  You say a whole bunch of gibberish and unprovable things that serve nothing except your own sense of self.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: How would you interpret this event...? [Re: cez]
    #21968059 - 07/19/15 11:17 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

And now you know why Markos has me On Ignore and I have no one On Ignore. It is called fear. You must agree or else.


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Re: How would you interpret this event...? [Re: cez]
    #21968096 - 07/19/15 11:22 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Subjective phenomenon are evidence for their existence, not The Existence. I think studying them tells us more about ourselves than it does the outside world.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: How would you interpret this event...? [Re: cez]
    #21968270 - 07/20/15 12:10 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

You say a whole bunch of gibberish and unprovable things that serve nothing except your own sense of self.

The word "gibberish" derives from Geber, the Latinized version Jabir ibn Hayyan, a famous alchemist whose writing few understood. People like you. Hence, anything that was Geber-ish became "gibberish." You are no doubt younger than me, and equally predicable, you're preoccupied with your identity, status, and personal importance. Otherwise you would not mention specialness. There is no specialness in having experienced Psi-functions. You just happen to be inexperienced, which is perfectly fine, but unfortunately you also evidence being threatened by someone who has experienced things that you haven't. I have also travelled deeply into the heart of Nigeria and visited Yorubaland, not that you envy that experience, but that IS something that you might do if you were so disposed. I had no control over my parapsychological experiences, they were spontaneous. I know people who are connected to all manner of famous people, so mentioning a single famous professor may appear like mere name-dropping to you, but it is a perfectly valid aspect of my personal development. If I want to express my specialness, it will be in the context of my profession, not in some pathetic attempt to impress late adolescents on a public forum. As to my experience Psi phenomena, way more common than you are aware of, you should really refrain from posts like this. It makes YOU look bad, not me.


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: How would you interpret this event...? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #21968392 - 07/20/15 12:36 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

This may entertain you.

Psychic mediums at the 'chocolate factory'.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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InvisibleKurt
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Re: How would you interpret this event...? [Re: cez]
    #21968469 - 07/20/15 12:49 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

cez said:
Quote:

Kurt said:
Do you really not believe it is possible to understand what is and isn't during psychedelic experience in general? Assuming you were speaking about your own experiences, for example; what would you mean by a general paradigm of PE?

I think generally people like to hedge a bit to talk about subjective experiences. I don't know what to call it. I think probably it will be a lot more significantly something between the OP and his brother, than the OP and us, for instance. Probably, speculating about someone else's experience one way or another, in various degrees of removal is dogmatic in one sense or another.

Hubris is a pretty general term. I wonder how well it refers to considerations of what people can and can't know in modern epistemelogical discussions...

When I think of hubris I think of Homeric heroes yelling someone down across the battlefield. Probably it was about disembowling and eating someone's liver for dinner, with poetic glosses.

So what is "hubristic" about psychedelic experience, or discussion of them? It seems more like an edgy and pretensious way to hedge one's personal views through personal indignation, rather than anything really descriptive, in general, unless you're some kind of grecophile.

The eyes which look down are not only culturally speaking, of a monistic shame God, they are also pretty much of an equivocally dead God to our more recent present. This is just epistemelogical discussion where people get emotionally vested in mostly ironic ways.

These are "views from nowhere", as Thomas Nagal put it.




Weird stuff happens and when you try to come up with explanations, you get things such as time travel, telepathy, psychokinesis, aliens etc.





"That" as a whole doesn't happen to everybody.


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Invisiblecez
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Re: How would you interpret this event...? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #21969880 - 07/20/15 09:22 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
You say a whole bunch of gibberish and unprovable things that serve nothing except your own sense of self.

The word "gibberish" derives from Geber, the Latinized version Jabir ibn Hayyan, a famous alchemist whose writing few understood. People like you. Hence, anything that was Geber-ish became "gibberish." You are no doubt younger than me, and equally predicable, you're preoccupied with your identity, status, and personal importance. Otherwise you would not mention specialness. There is no specialness in having experienced Psi-functions. You just happen to be inexperienced, which is perfectly fine, but unfortunately you also evidence being threatened by someone who has experienced things that you haven't. I have also travelled deeply into the heart of Nigeria and visited Yorubaland, not that you envy that experience, but that IS something that you might do if you were so disposed. I had no control over my parapsychological experiences, they were spontaneous. I know people who are connected to all manner of famous people, so mentioning a single famous professor may appear like mere name-dropping to you, but it is a perfectly valid aspect of my personal development. If I want to express my specialness, it will be in the context of my profession, not in some pathetic attempt to impress late adolescents on a public forum. As to my experience Psi phenomena, way more common than you are aware of, you should really refrain from posts like this. It makes YOU look bad, not me.




Just because I dismiss unusual phenomena as such does not mean I haven't experienced them.  You trip enough times, you're gonna have experiences that are unexplainable and I don't care to defend any of my experiences because I don't need to prove them to anyone, as you are currently doing.  To say, "I had a parapsychological experience where xy and z happened" sounds irrational imo, and that's all I'm trying to say.  You can't prove it happened.  All you can do is talk about "I, I, I" and have the listener nod their head and let you talk.  What can the listener take from your parapsychological experiences?  Why would you want to discuss this stuff with people other than to boost your sense of self?  If you didn't think the experience was special, you wouldn't defend it.  I think you know you are beyond your profession and your sense of self isn't what you do in the world. 

The psychedelic experience is a very personal matter imo and you need not tell people about it in the same way you need not tell people about the sex you have with your wife.  It's a very high form of personal gratification and that's all. 

I think you are the one that's threatened, not me.  You're making assumptions and then telling me how to post while all I'm doing is offering my point of view on how I felt when I talked about my experiences and why I don't speak of them anymore.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: How would you interpret this event...? [Re: cez]
    #21973934 - 07/21/15 01:09 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I really am not interested in what you think about my writing. I write to communicate, like with like. I do not like what you have to say as we are not of like minds. I am not in these forum to provide you or anyone else with "proof" of anything. That is an impossibility in any event. I am reporting experiences as a Phenomenologist, not an apologist for paranormal phenomena. See if you can grok the difference. Your conflation of Psi phenomena with psychedelic experience, and further association sexual intimacy indicate issues that you are having. I'm not your therapist on these forums, so you can keep those issues to yourself. I am certainly not threatened by your words. That is seriously ridiculous to me. Lastly, I am not telling you what to write, I'm done writing anything to you in fact. However, I am telling you to back off with your rudeness. Since you can neither appreciate or understand my words, and since you cannot see your own obvious projections, I recommend that you simply put me on your ignore list, or you can join those on on my own list whom I consider to be obnoxious pests. I am obviously not your teacher here, and you definitely have nothing to teach me.  :bye:


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


Edited by MarkostheGnostic (07/21/15 01:14 AM)


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Invisiblecez
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Re: How would you interpret this event...? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #21975075 - 07/21/15 10:29 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Lastly, I am not telling you what to write



...Ohh really?  :smirk:   
Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
you should really refrain from posts like this. It makes YOU look bad, not me.





Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
However, I am telling you to back off with your rudeness. Since you can neither appreciate or understand my words, and since you cannot see your own obvious projections, I recommend that you simply put me on your ignore list, or you can join those on on my own list whom I consider to be obnoxious pests. I am obviously not your teacher here, and you definitely have nothing to teach me.  :bye:




I'm an obnoxious pest because I don't agree with you on a talking point that is unprovable in a forum where your stance on a topic is supposed to be backed up with proof?

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Since you can neither appreciate or understand my words, I am obviously not your teacher here, and you definitely have nothing to teach me.  :bye:




Talk about an inflated sense of self!  Does anybody have anything to teach you here?  I'm beginning to suspect in your world you are the One and only teacher here.  I've never seen you in the position of learner.  You are always the one recommending some book or a wikipedia link.  I think you are a great resource but I'm not going to thank you and acknowledge your wisdom for everything you say, especially in this forum where debate is the purpose and you've presented an unprovable argument and now seem upset because I won't acknowledge your parapsychological event as special, as I suspect you think it is.

Because I think it's hubris to speak of oddities within the psychedelic experience and have no interest in promoting them, I don't understand your words? I think I have the essence of your argument.  You want to create a division of people who have experienced parapsychological events and other anomalies and you want another group to be in awe and question your experience so you can continue speaking of the special experience you had---BUT, let it be known YOU are not special, you just had a special experience and want to tell everyone about it.

If you are not threatened by my words, you wouldn't threaten to put me on ignore and tell me how different our minds are and call me an obnoxious pest and take a passive-aggressive shot in telling me I have sexual intimacy issues.

...I don't know, you seem threatened...:shrug:


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: How would you interpret this event...? [Re: cez]
    #21975145 - 07/21/15 10:53 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)



Markos = Jesos


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Offlineunsui888
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Re: How would you interpret this event...? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #21988469 - 07/24/15 03:48 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I guess I just find it strange that I have experienced precognition during certain states of consciousness (dreaming, tripping), but not in this ordinary state...


--------------------
"a note for asses: what is very convincing, is not necessarily true - it is merely convincing"

primus------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------mama didn't raise no fool


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: How would you interpret this event...? [Re: unsui888] * 1
    #21988548 - 07/24/15 05:02 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Huston Smith, part of the 60's Harvard triumvirate, once told of how he was certain he had telepathy while tripping. When he queried the folks sober whom he thought he had connected minds to, they had no idea WTF he was talking about.

Smith's conclusion: projection/fantasy/tripping yo.


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Re: How would you interpret this event...? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #21994982 - 07/25/15 12:15 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

When he queried the folks sober whom he thought he had connected minds to, they had no idea WTF he was talking about.

During some of my first trips I saw what looked like camera flashes going off several times in the darkish room over the course of the evening. It was very visible to me, bright as direct sunlight and very brief. Exactly like a powerful camera flash. There was NO WAY it could be missed even by someone with their eyes closed.

I was 100% convinced of the shared telepathic experienced and ecstatic at the thought that I had just directly experienced irrefutable proof of telepathy or "something more" or whatever. The next morning when I woke up, I excitedly questioned my fellow trippers about the flashes of light and our amazing shared experience. I was crushed when all I got back from my friends were blank stares. No one had any idea WTF I was on about.

And now you know why Markos has me On Ignore

You too eh? The truth can stand any criticism. Only those who fear the truth hide from debating it. :ohwell:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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OfflineRhizoid
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Re: How would you interpret this event...? [Re: sudly]
    #22000456 - 07/26/15 03:43 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

sudly said:
Synchronicity.



I like the concept of synchronicity, because it doesn't try to explain away coincidences as some mystical god-given "randomness".


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,809
Re: How would you interpret this event...? [Re: Rhizoid]
    #22001635 - 07/26/15 08:06 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I like it too because it makes sense of the nonsensical by stating that it is nonsensical.

Often times when I experience synchronicity I am in awe of the statistical probability I have beaten to experience it. It reminds me how lucky we all are to be alive in this inhospitable universe.

The only thing I have faith in is coincidence because it always seems to happen.


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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