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Kurt
Thinker, blinker, writer, typer.

Registered: 11/26/14
Posts: 1,688
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Re: How would you interpret this event...? [Re: cez]
#21968469 - 07/20/15 12:49 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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cez said:
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Kurt said: Do you really not believe it is possible to understand what is and isn't during psychedelic experience in general? Assuming you were speaking about your own experiences, for example; what would you mean by a general paradigm of PE?
I think generally people like to hedge a bit to talk about subjective experiences. I don't know what to call it. I think probably it will be a lot more significantly something between the OP and his brother, than the OP and us, for instance. Probably, speculating about someone else's experience one way or another, in various degrees of removal is dogmatic in one sense or another.
Hubris is a pretty general term. I wonder how well it refers to considerations of what people can and can't know in modern epistemelogical discussions...
When I think of hubris I think of Homeric heroes yelling someone down across the battlefield. Probably it was about disembowling and eating someone's liver for dinner, with poetic glosses.
So what is "hubristic" about psychedelic experience, or discussion of them? It seems more like an edgy and pretensious way to hedge one's personal views through personal indignation, rather than anything really descriptive, in general, unless you're some kind of grecophile.
The eyes which look down are not only culturally speaking, of a monistic shame God, they are also pretty much of an equivocally dead God to our more recent present. This is just epistemelogical discussion where people get emotionally vested in mostly ironic ways.
These are "views from nowhere", as Thomas Nagal put it.
Weird stuff happens and when you try to come up with explanations, you get things such as time travel, telepathy, psychokinesis, aliens etc.
"That" as a whole doesn't happen to everybody.
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cez

Registered: 08/04/09
Posts: 5,854
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: You say a whole bunch of gibberish and unprovable things that serve nothing except your own sense of self.
The word "gibberish" derives from Geber, the Latinized version Jabir ibn Hayyan, a famous alchemist whose writing few understood. People like you. Hence, anything that was Geber-ish became "gibberish." You are no doubt younger than me, and equally predicable, you're preoccupied with your identity, status, and personal importance. Otherwise you would not mention specialness. There is no specialness in having experienced Psi-functions. You just happen to be inexperienced, which is perfectly fine, but unfortunately you also evidence being threatened by someone who has experienced things that you haven't. I have also travelled deeply into the heart of Nigeria and visited Yorubaland, not that you envy that experience, but that IS something that you might do if you were so disposed. I had no control over my parapsychological experiences, they were spontaneous. I know people who are connected to all manner of famous people, so mentioning a single famous professor may appear like mere name-dropping to you, but it is a perfectly valid aspect of my personal development. If I want to express my specialness, it will be in the context of my profession, not in some pathetic attempt to impress late adolescents on a public forum. As to my experience Psi phenomena, way more common than you are aware of, you should really refrain from posts like this. It makes YOU look bad, not me.
Just because I dismiss unusual phenomena as such does not mean I haven't experienced them. You trip enough times, you're gonna have experiences that are unexplainable and I don't care to defend any of my experiences because I don't need to prove them to anyone, as you are currently doing. To say, "I had a parapsychological experience where xy and z happened" sounds irrational imo, and that's all I'm trying to say. You can't prove it happened. All you can do is talk about "I, I, I" and have the listener nod their head and let you talk. What can the listener take from your parapsychological experiences? Why would you want to discuss this stuff with people other than to boost your sense of self? If you didn't think the experience was special, you wouldn't defend it. I think you know you are beyond your profession and your sense of self isn't what you do in the world.
The psychedelic experience is a very personal matter imo and you need not tell people about it in the same way you need not tell people about the sex you have with your wife. It's a very high form of personal gratification and that's all.
I think you are the one that's threatened, not me. You're making assumptions and then telling me how to post while all I'm doing is offering my point of view on how I felt when I talked about my experiences and why I don't speak of them anymore.
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder



Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 2 days
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Re: How would you interpret this event...? [Re: cez]
#21973934 - 07/21/15 01:09 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I really am not interested in what you think about my writing. I write to communicate, like with like. I do not like what you have to say as we are not of like minds. I am not in these forum to provide you or anyone else with "proof" of anything. That is an impossibility in any event. I am reporting experiences as a Phenomenologist, not an apologist for paranormal phenomena. See if you can grok the difference. Your conflation of Psi phenomena with psychedelic experience, and further association sexual intimacy indicate issues that you are having. I'm not your therapist on these forums, so you can keep those issues to yourself. I am certainly not threatened by your words. That is seriously ridiculous to me. Lastly, I am not telling you what to write, I'm done writing anything to you in fact. However, I am telling you to back off with your rudeness. Since you can neither appreciate or understand my words, and since you cannot see your own obvious projections, I recommend that you simply put me on your ignore list, or you can join those on on my own list whom I consider to be obnoxious pests. I am obviously not your teacher here, and you definitely have nothing to teach me.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
Edited by MarkostheGnostic (07/21/15 01:14 AM)
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cez

Registered: 08/04/09
Posts: 5,854
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: Lastly, I am not telling you what to write
...Ohh really? Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: you should really refrain from posts like this. It makes YOU look bad, not me.
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MarkostheGnostic said: However, I am telling you to back off with your rudeness. Since you can neither appreciate or understand my words, and since you cannot see your own obvious projections, I recommend that you simply put me on your ignore list, or you can join those on on my own list whom I consider to be obnoxious pests. I am obviously not your teacher here, and you definitely have nothing to teach me. 
I'm an obnoxious pest because I don't agree with you on a talking point that is unprovable in a forum where your stance on a topic is supposed to be backed up with proof?
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MarkostheGnostic said: Since you can neither appreciate or understand my words, I am obviously not your teacher here, and you definitely have nothing to teach me. 
Talk about an inflated sense of self! Does anybody have anything to teach you here? I'm beginning to suspect in your world you are the One and only teacher here. I've never seen you in the position of learner. You are always the one recommending some book or a wikipedia link. I think you are a great resource but I'm not going to thank you and acknowledge your wisdom for everything you say, especially in this forum where debate is the purpose and you've presented an unprovable argument and now seem upset because I won't acknowledge your parapsychological event as special, as I suspect you think it is.
Because I think it's hubris to speak of oddities within the psychedelic experience and have no interest in promoting them, I don't understand your words? I think I have the essence of your argument. You want to create a division of people who have experienced parapsychological events and other anomalies and you want another group to be in awe and question your experience so you can continue speaking of the special experience you had---BUT, let it be known YOU are not special, you just had a special experience and want to tell everyone about it.
If you are not threatened by my words, you wouldn't threaten to put me on ignore and tell me how different our minds are and call me an obnoxious pest and take a passive-aggressive shot in telling me I have sexual intimacy issues.
...I don't know, you seem threatened...
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: How would you interpret this event...? [Re: cez]
#21975145 - 07/21/15 10:53 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Markos = Jesos
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unsui888
Embodied


Registered: 10/11/08
Posts: 1,154
Loc: United States
Last seen: 4 months, 2 hours
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I guess I just find it strange that I have experienced precognition during certain states of consciousness (dreaming, tripping), but not in this ordinary state...
-------------------- "a note for asses: what is very convincing, is not necessarily true - it is merely convincing" primus------------------------------------------------------------------------ -----------------------------------------------mama didn't raise no fool
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: How would you interpret this event...? [Re: unsui888] 1
#21988548 - 07/24/15 05:02 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Huston Smith, part of the 60's Harvard triumvirate, once told of how he was certain he had telepathy while tripping. When he queried the folks sober whom he thought he had connected minds to, they had no idea WTF he was talking about.
Smith's conclusion: projection/fantasy/tripping yo.
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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When he queried the folks sober whom he thought he had connected minds to, they had no idea WTF he was talking about.
During some of my first trips I saw what looked like camera flashes going off several times in the darkish room over the course of the evening. It was very visible to me, bright as direct sunlight and very brief. Exactly like a powerful camera flash. There was NO WAY it could be missed even by someone with their eyes closed.
I was 100% convinced of the shared telepathic experienced and ecstatic at the thought that I had just directly experienced irrefutable proof of telepathy or "something more" or whatever. The next morning when I woke up, I excitedly questioned my fellow trippers about the flashes of light and our amazing shared experience. I was crushed when all I got back from my friends were blank stares. No one had any idea WTF I was on about.
And now you know why Markos has me On Ignore
You too eh? The truth can stand any criticism. Only those who fear the truth hide from debating it.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Rhizoid
carbon unit


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Re: How would you interpret this event...? [Re: sudly]
#22000456 - 07/26/15 03:43 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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sudly said: Synchronicity.
I like the concept of synchronicity, because it doesn't try to explain away coincidences as some mystical god-given "randomness".
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sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,808
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Re: How would you interpret this event...? [Re: Rhizoid]
#22001635 - 07/26/15 08:06 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I like it too because it makes sense of the nonsensical by stating that it is nonsensical.
Often times when I experience synchronicity I am in awe of the statistical probability I have beaten to experience it. It reminds me how lucky we all are to be alive in this inhospitable universe.
The only thing I have faith in is coincidence because it always seems to happen.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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