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MikeBearPig
Not liked.


Registered: 07/15/14
Posts: 2,319
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Let's get the myth's outta here
#21955861 - 07/17/15 12:09 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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We have all heard them.. I am not talking about what happens when eating the mushroom. I am talking about cultivation myth's and how credible they really are. Anybody is allowed to present "information" and we can then discuss how credible or useful it really is.
I will organize all the useful information that we have discussed and edit this main thread with everything we have deemed to be true enough or not true. This is going to challenge peoples opinions to the max.. I would like to point out that, if 2 people have conflicting evidence, it means both do not know the truth.. They just happen to meet at some commonality.
THIS THREAD IS SUBJECT TO CHANGE UPON THE NEW ARRIVAL OF INFORMATION! MAKE SURE TO CHECK BACK AND LOOK FOR PROGRESS WE MAKE.
Topics in discussion: ____________________________________________________
1# OPB : Myth: pasteurizing coir preserves beneficial bacteria that is in the bricks. I still think this should be tested but the opinions of many experienced growers seems unanimous. http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21933704/page/1(answered)
#2 Mad Season: Humidity is as important as FAE. (answered)
#3 MBP : To remove the foil or not on PF TEK jars (answered)
#4 MBP Using more than 5+qt's of Spawn will cause something bad to happen or that you cannot do it at all.
#5 Mad Season: I read about how you can't wash your mushrooms after picking because it washes the actives out
#6 Mad Season: Cake fruits are not potent
#7 Mad Season: Misting the walls of any chamber. I can't tell you how many times I tell people not to and just mist the substrate and perlite directly.
On that related note of false shit, no condensation on the walls means you have no humidity, which is also just plain wrong. Condensation means there's a temperature difference. I usually crack the lid and put my hand in to feel if it's humid.
#8 EUA: Myth Liners need to be cut
Quote:
LINERS: You can use per-cut liners from black painters plastic or 30 gallon trash bags. It doesn't matter which one you use it won't effect your flush in any way. I find it much easier to use a 30 gallon trash bag and simply tuck the sides of the bag under the casing and substrate rather than cut liners. Once you have applied the casing you tuck the trash bag to the side of the substrate/casing.
here is an example of a tub with a 30 gallon trash bag tucked after the casing has colonized. it is now being induced into fruiting conditions.

and here is a flush with the sub same tub.

Here are a few examples from 2003 that show dub tubs with trash bag liners but no tucking, no cutting or anything. You can get great flushes without cutting or tucking.
pics from 03.
       
Quote:
1) What about the myth that liners need to be cut? that one needs to be done away with.
#9 EUA: Myth: that tall regular mouth half pint jars cause stalling. MikeBearPig : I personally have done quart PF jars, WBS in a pickle jar with out seeing any evidence of them stalling out. I have also never seen a PF jar stall on the cultivation board. This does not mean they don't happen, it is just rare and should not be considered normal OR we are being too fast on our decision making. It is most likely genetics giving us the illusion
Spacechildo : Growth starts high up in jar = stall. growth starts on bottom = no stall.
EUA: This is true about growth in the bottom. inject to the edge of the glass so the solution drips down to the bottom, then growth is from bottom up. ive never had stalling in tall jars. if you inject them following the pf tek it works perfectly. if the pf tek mix is slightly dry it will absorb the solution more and you won't get the solution to trickle down to the bottom. if the mix is right, it slides right down the edge of the glass.
Kizzle: Even though it doesn't happen all the time I'm not convinced it's strictly a matter of human error. In fact it's for that very reason I don't think it's strictly human error. I've had batches of jars made and inoculated the exact same way and a minority of them seem to stall just before full colonization with no indication of contamination before or after birthing (and removing the uncolonized substrate from the bottom). In any case it would be more accurate to say the tall half-pint jars as well as pint jars are more prone to stalling when using the PF tek.
MBP: Ok. So, now that we have conflicting evidence of some sort.. We have to come to some other agreement why they stall. *EDIT : MOVED TO DISCUSSION*
Do you think this is from what space was trying to say? Compression?
Like, accidental compression that leads to stalling? It would make sense why, if you put it down too hard, the taller jar would have more weight on top.
Also about the foil. Your examples would of been the extreme case as well. Leaving the foil on after the PC cycle would be the worst time to leave it on. After it has been removed and replaced back over, there is going to be a negligible amount of moisture left because of air flow.
I have an idea.
I have some quart jars lying around that I can make PF style and inoculate. How many perfect jars would it take to kill this pint jar myth? After all.. It is a quart jar, not a pint.. this has to be the example to the extreme. I have done it before with spores, I don't see how I can fail with a liquid culture.
#10 MBP : Spore scam http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7961125
TL:DR If you got these spores from his website, you got ripped The Keepers Creeper...is also called the Creeper.
The KC is probably just a renamed strain that Shane(The Keeper) renamed to his liking.
He renamed all these strains to his liking...
Tequila Spikes
Veracity Sincerities
Shooting Stars
Sanctuaries
Yin/Yang?s
Oasis
Northern Lights
Hairy Buffaloes
Illusion Weavers
Chimeras
Reality Benders
Blue Meanies (Cubensis) which is complete crap...because there is another species of mushroom that is nicknamed this. real Blue Meanies are Copelandia Cyanescens!~
Nj6
The Star Gazer
Z-Strain
EUA: "wikidzon" wikidzon was an isolate of pacific exotic spora amazon. pesa cubensis. this was renamed wikidzon when limeade the guy who isolated it gave it the name for his wifes omc tag "wikid" +"amazon"=wikidzon. its a pesa. maybe its good genetics. but its simply pesa.
6Silent9Knight6 said: just fyi... I recently bought the ultimate special.... (40 strains total)
Grew em all out and they all look identical and not only that... the potency was all the same.
Here's to vendors ripping us off!! 

(each cake is a different strain)
#11 Myth : Fuzzy feet is only caused by low Fresh Air Exchange (FAE)
True ____________________________________________________
#1 Mad Season: Sterilizing coir works because there's little to no beneficial microbes to begin with. However manure sterilized is trich mania.
Kizzle :True, I guess the real question is whether there are enough beneficial bacteria present for it to do much good.
#3Treant : I was always under the assumption we removed the foil not for GE, but rather because it creates a micro-climate between the foil an the lid that contams can thrive in.
#2 Mad season Humidity is far far far less important. Surface hydration through misting and fae are what's most important
Kizzle :This seems to be more a matter opinion than fact/myth. Certainly maintaining a sufficient amount of humidity and fresh air are both important. I suppose the fact that a substrate will dry crisp in very low humidity and not fruit whereas it will usually fruit (poorly) even with very low FAE would suggest humidity is more important but nevertheless low humidity is rarely an issue for people yet it's something new cultivators often dwell on.
MBP : If you have done your substrate properly and have a properly built mono tub, humidity will never be an issue, unless you have WAY too much FAE or in a less than ideal temperature range. Even then, you can mist through mist of it.
It only seems like you should worry about humidity if you messed up your preparation, since the temperature thing does not seem as complicated for people to follow. I do agree with you fully on this though, it is not something you should really ever worry about and people spend too much time and money worrying about it.
#4 MBP : You can use all the spawn you want, just make sure you have enough substrate and water for colonization.
#5 Rinsing off your mushrooms is safe, as long as the water you are rinsing with is not close to boiling. Even then, you are still safe
#6 They can be just as potent as bulk mushrooms
#7 Mist the substrate and pearlite directly
#8 You can leave it be or fold it
Kizzle: I can confirm that the filters sometimes remain a little damp but they also remain sterile so it doesn't matter. I often have jars with foil on for a couple days before I inoculate, I've even had control jars sit with foil on for a couple weeks while the others colonize and then inoculate them and they're just fine so long as the foil is still on tightly with no tears or anything.
Mikebearpig: Response to Kizzle : Also about the foil. Your examples would of been the extreme case as well. Leaving the foil on after the PC cycle would be the worst time to leave it on. After it has been removed and replaced back over, there is going to be a negligible amount of moisture left because of air flow.
#9 Myth: Tall jar's have a chance of stalling just because they are tall jars. (false)
Kizzle: Well I suppose following the PF tek and using the wrong jars in itself could be considered user failure. I don't believe using the tall jars will always cause problems and there are probably variations of the original tek that work fine with other jars. For example if you're using a LC, more than 1/4cc spore solution, flipping your jars upsidedown, using vermiculite with a different coarseness, changing the recipe, or anything like that would be a variation as it deviates from the original tek and there's no guarantee the problem will still apply.
#10 Spore Scamming :With the evidence presented in the discussion thread, we are calling this one a truth. Use trusted places.
#11 Fuzzy feet only happen due to lack of FAE. (false)
InsaneMike :I believe it's a combination of both. Most of the time fuzzy feet is due to a lack of FAE but how much FAE is more than likely a product of genetics. Some strains may need more oxygen than others while some strains might be able to tolerate higher co2 levels.
False ____________________________________________________
#3 Removing the foil on PF jars for GE. #8 Liners do not need to be cut.
Mushroom related Myths __________________________
#1 Myth : Adding lemon juice converts the psilocin to psilocybin. *FALSE*
MBP: Truth: Nothing happens as far as converting. Hot water is enough to extract the alkaloids out of mushrooms. It is how all the company's that make tonics out of medicinal ones operate. So as far as the lemon juice helping to extract it from the mushrooms might be far fetched, however the lemon juice does help the active alkaloids to not oxidize as fast in response to being in water.
#2 Discuss: Caps more potent than stems. I have seen 1 chart and I believe I have seen Alan Rockafeller say that it was not accurate. I might be wrong though, so feel free to correct me. I do not believe that caps are more potent than stems, based from personal experience testing and from the information I have gathered.
Although, part of me says that the cap has a different purpose and involves different types of mycelium (maybe?). We might not ever know this until we can get scientific testing of many many many different batches of mushrooms.
#3 Myth : You can Tell by the way a mushroom looks if it will give a good trip or not (false)
#4 Myth : Gold flakes enhance or mean extra potent. I heard this in high school and people still believe this. I have told 3 of my friends in particular this story and it almost looks like I have crushed their souls.. One of them told me that she thought It was something the mushrooms produces, "Like a fairy dust". Another told me and firmly believed that the gold flakes brought out the psilocybin and made them extra potent.
Edited by MikeBearPig (07/22/15 10:28 AM)
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up



Registered: 01/24/13
Posts: 19,243
Loc: Babylon
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
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Re: Let's get the myth's outta here [Re: MikeBearPig]
#21955881 - 07/17/15 12:14 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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#1 is pretty much impossible for us to settle. unless someone has a foot inside the spore business 
where'd you hear no 2? never heard that before, it sounds like something from "those other sites" 
#4 removing foil was never because of ge.. gases find their way anyway, making a truly air tight container is fuckin hard!
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MikeBearPig
Not liked.


Registered: 07/15/14
Posts: 2,319
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Re: Let's get the myth's outta here [Re: spacechildo]
#21955907 - 07/17/15 12:21 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
spacechildo said: #1 is pretty much impossible for us to settle. unless someone has a foot inside the spore business 
where'd you hear no 2? never heard that before, it sounds like something from "those other sites" 
#4 removing foil was never because of ge.. gases find their way anyway, making a truly air tight container is fuckin hard!
#1 I was referring to the scam sites directed at noobs that sell spores for 69$ #2 is from here. I just recently seen on another thread . #4 is the reason I heard
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up



Registered: 01/24/13
Posts: 19,243
Loc: Babylon
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
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Re: Let's get the myth's outta here [Re: MikeBearPig]
#21955916 - 07/17/15 12:23 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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seriously? got a link to no2? that's so fucked its shocking! 
btw you'll always see noobs say foil hinders GE but they dont know what they're saying. they just repeat what they think is true..
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ZeroBoyWD
Zombie



Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 460
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
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Re: Let's get the myth's outta here [Re: spacechildo]
#21955965 - 07/17/15 12:37 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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#1 Some sites do that, but its typically the ones that sell overpriced subpar grow kits. B+ from one vendor is highly unlikely to be the same as B+ from another vendor for obvious reasons
#2 No comment
#3 Lets not forget in the case of cakes, playing with your jars and letting dirty air work its way past your vermiculite barrier. Watched pot never boils and all that.
#4 -shrug-
I was hoping to get into the argument about Substrate X or Strain Y yielding abnormal potency. I wanna see some name calling
-------------------- I'm done trying to be "right." I want the exchange of ideas to be the currency of my economy. If you have something I can use, great. I'll try it out. If you think my methods are shit, great. Don't use it. We all want yields.
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: Let's get the myth's outta here [Re: ZeroBoyWD] 1
#21956007 - 07/17/15 12:49 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Humidity is as important as fae... bad myth. Humidity is far far far less important. Surface hydration through misting and fae are what's most important.
#4 is bad because it traps condensation in. It'll drip off the foil and onto the dry verm layer, making it not so dry, and a place for contaminations to germinate. Also in the case of grains, you don't want your filter to get wet. Adding that barrier will get the condensation on the filter. Thus foil should always be removed.
Edited by Mad Season (07/17/15 12:53 PM)
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hamloaf
Loaf of Fam.


Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 20,192
Loc: Oklahoma.
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
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Re: Let's get the myth's outta here *DELETED* [Re: Mad Season]
#21956033 - 07/17/15 12:57 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Post deleted by hamloafReason for deletion: misunderstood the information I'v read over the subject.
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ZeroBoyWD
Zombie



Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 460
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
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Re: Let's get the myth's outta here [Re: hamloaf]
#21956067 - 07/17/15 01:04 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Can we start labeling our posts MYTH or FACT
-------------------- I'm done trying to be "right." I want the exchange of ideas to be the currency of my economy. If you have something I can use, great. I'll try it out. If you think my methods are shit, great. Don't use it. We all want yields.
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OPB
Wanderer

Registered: 05/30/15
Posts: 198
Last seen: 2 years, 10 days
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Re: Let's get the myth's outta here [Re: ZeroBoyWD]
#21956139 - 07/17/15 01:20 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Myth: pasteurizing coir preserves beneficial bacteria that is in the bricks.
I still think this should be tested but the opinions of many experienced growers seems unanimous.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21933704/page/1
-------------------- "Wasn't that fun"
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: Let's get the myth's outta here [Re: OPB]
#21956170 - 07/17/15 01:26 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Sterilizing coir works because there's little to no beneficial microbes to begin with. However manure sterilized is trich mania
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Let's get the myth's outta here [Re: hamloaf] 2
#21956184 - 07/17/15 01:30 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
hamloaf said: Moisture that evaporates from the substrate is nutrient laden. Nutrition that is laden in the moisture evaporation from the substrate is what, and how the fruits get food. The more nutrients in a substrate, the better the mushrooms eat.
Quote:
Nutrition that is laden in the moisture evaporation from the substrate is what, and how the fruits get food.
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Grey
⇜ ✯ ⇝



Registered: 11/06/14
Posts: 6,223
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Re: Let's get the myth's outta here [Re: OPB]
#21956215 - 07/17/15 01:37 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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--------------------
AMU Q&A If you don't have a plan of your own, you'll become a part of somebody else's.
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up



Registered: 01/24/13
Posts: 19,243
Loc: Babylon
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
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Re: Let's get the myth's outta here [Re: bodhisatta]
#21956232 - 07/17/15 01:42 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said:
Quote:
hamloaf said: Moisture that evaporates from the substrate is nutrient laden. Nutrition that is laden in the moisture evaporation from the substrate is what, and how the fruits get food. The more nutrients in a substrate, the better the mushrooms eat.
Quote:
Nutrition that is laden in the moisture evaporation from the substrate is what, and how the fruits get food.

how ironic isnt it to pull one of these in a no more myths thread?
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hamloaf
Loaf of Fam.


Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 20,192
Loc: Oklahoma.
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
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Re: Let's get the myth's outta here [Re: spacechildo]
#21956374 - 07/17/15 02:11 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Shit, nah. You guys are right, I misread/understood the information originally read over the subject. My bad. It's been a rough week. Mushrooms eat by decomposing organic matter.
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TravelAgency
The ongoing "wow"


Registered: 12/25/10
Posts: 4,431
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Re: Let's get the myth's outta here [Re: hamloaf]
#21956397 - 07/17/15 02:16 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Thank you Hamloaf, who continually brings good info, and corrects their self when wrong. Just like a good reporter. Just like a good scientist. Noobies take note
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OPB
Wanderer

Registered: 05/30/15
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Re: Let's get the myth's outta here [Re: TravelAgency] 1
#21956457 - 07/17/15 02:30 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I've got a great one.
Myth: You can judge a mushrooms potency or "type of trip" visually.
Myth part B: Mushroom genetics determine whether it will cause bad trips or good trips.
-------------------- "Wasn't that fun"
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PLURAL
PLUR


Registered: 01/16/14
Posts: 31,320
Loc: PLUR
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Re: Let's get the myth's outta here [Re: MikeBearPig] 1
#21956460 - 07/17/15 02:30 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I was always under the assumption we removed the foil not for GE, but rather because it creates a micro-climate between the foil an the lid that contams can thrive in.
-------------------- PLUR
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MikeBearPig
Not liked.


Registered: 07/15/14
Posts: 2,319
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Re: Let's get the myth's outta here [Re: PLURAL]
#21956470 - 07/17/15 02:34 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
spacechildo said: seriously? got a link to no2? that's so fucked its shocking! 
btw you'll always see noobs say foil hinders GE but they dont know what they're saying. they just repeat what they think is true..
Quote:
Treant said: I was always under the assumption we removed the foil not for GE, but rather because it creates a micro-climate between the foil an the lid that contams can thrive in.
These are examples of how these "myths" are created. We have all heard something else!
Keep posting information, let's bury all these once and for all.
I made this thread not so much for us, but for the newer people who have to sort through 12 years of this stuff :P
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MikeBearPig
Not liked.


Registered: 07/15/14
Posts: 2,319
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Re: Let's get the myth's outta here [Re: OPB]
#21956474 - 07/17/15 02:35 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
OPB said: I've got a great one.
Myth: You can judge a mushrooms potency or "type of trip" visually.
Myth part B: Mushroom genetics determine whether it will cause bad trips or good trips.
This is more for the cultivation myths.
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Al Bundy
No Ma'am



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Posts: 178
Loc: Chicago
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Re: Let's get the myth's outta here [Re: PLURAL]
#21956486 - 07/17/15 02:36 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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There's so many people on here that are convinced mushrooms cause bad trips.
*intensely looking at mushrooms* Na man, them look like bad trip mushrooms. I want my money back.
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