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MagicFingers
Stranger


Registered: 04/30/15
Posts: 214
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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First Monotub! "FA" Fatass variation.
#21953915 - 07/16/15 09:32 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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So far I have had some experience with cakes. I even turned some cakes into some spawn to do a small 6QT "dubtub". I also did a 12QT which had sad results I think mainly because my substrate level was too low. I've done a lot of research and decided it was time to try a monotub.
I decided to stick with the basics. WBS soaked with gypsum for the spawn. I used Coir+Verm+Gypsum for the substrate. Which was properly pasteurized.
To avoid an additional chance for contam I decided to stay away from a casing. Doing research it seems that cubes don't really need to be cased anyway.
As expected the spawn was inoculated with MS. I am looking to do some agar work in the near future. Still trying to determine if I should do a clone or start with a isolation and then move onto cloning.
The tub has been colonizing for 10 days now. I decided to give it a few extra days to take a full hold on the substrate. I've heard some people wait even longer but I think 10 days should be good. It colonized VERY fast!
I just put the tub into fruiting conditions. Here is what it looks like as of now.

I'll update as things progress!
Let me know what you think or if you have any questions! Input is always appreciated! :::)
-------------------- Live the Life you Love! -MagicFingers

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d0urd3n
Just call me "D"

Registered: 09/15/10
Posts: 5,237
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Re: First Monotub! "FA" Fatass variation. [Re: MagicFingers]
#21953927 - 07/16/15 09:35 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Looks great. Start with cloning. A nice cluster from this grow.
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Buck513

Registered: 04/17/14
Posts: 5,682
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Re: First Monotub! "FA" Fatass variation. [Re: d0urd3n]
#21954600 - 07/17/15 02:13 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Casings are not an extra vector for contam.
Cubes don't need to be cased, but they pretty much always benefit from one.
-------------------- Fail to plan and you plan to fail. Enter the Ban Lottery
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bburnett227
???

Registered: 04/29/15
Posts: 71
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
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Re: First Monotub! "FA" Fatass variation. [Re: Buck513]
#21954607 - 07/17/15 02:21 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Now, casing a monotub...that's just putting a layer 1/4" thick of just Verm over the substrate? Or doing another 1/4” of a substrate....cuz the roll of just Verm on cakes is a casing also....correct? Gonna be watching this post, starting wbs sat. And very interested. Looks good though. Please keep updated
-------------------- Abe
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Buck513

Registered: 04/17/14
Posts: 5,682
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Re: First Monotub! "FA" Fatass variation. [Re: bburnett227]
#21954617 - 07/17/15 02:30 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Thickness of casing layers depends on several things. 1/4in should be fine, but things like PE enjoy thicker casings.
You can case with plain ole verm, coir, doesn't really matter. People just case with what their personal preference is, and what they have at hand.
Experiment, see what you like best.
-------------------- Fail to plan and you plan to fail. Enter the Ban Lottery
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shaggyp
California Hottboi



Registered: 12/27/12
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Re: First Monotub! "FA" Fatass variation. [Re: Buck513]
#21954747 - 07/17/15 03:37 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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If you case with coir it's not a casing, eh? Cuz it's a nutritive layer that just prevents your wbs from being exposed.
-------------------- Burt Cocaine
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shaggyp
California Hottboi



Registered: 12/27/12
Posts: 454
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
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Re: First Monotub! "FA" Fatass variation. [Re: shaggyp]
#21954756 - 07/17/15 03:48 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I think most people would recommend not leaving exposed grain. I'm sure it's good advice but I'm too lazy to follow it.
-------------------- Burt Cocaine
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MagicFingers
Stranger


Registered: 04/30/15
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Re: First Monotub! "FA" Fatass variation. [Re: Buck513]
#21955189 - 07/17/15 08:42 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I still have some extra coir and verm. I guess I could pasteurize some real quick and add a casing..
I was thinking that my next round I'll do a couple tubs with spawn that came from a good isolated clone. So then I can really see the difference between a casing and no casing.
But in all honesty I've read a lot of people saying they had issues with casings through the years and decided not to do it. I just don't want to add another chance for problems.
-------------------- Live the Life you Love! -MagicFingers

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MagicFingers
Stranger


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Re: First Monotub! "FA" Fatass variation. [Re: d0urd3n]
#21955200 - 07/17/15 08:45 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I should probably just do some research before I ask. But at what point would I do the clone with the cluster? When the cluster is mature or in the beginning stages? I'll order up some agar, dishes, and supplies now.
-------------------- Live the Life you Love! -MagicFingers

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blindingleaf
blue collar underworld


Registered: 07/19/13
Posts: 22,008
Loc: sub-surface unseen
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Re: First Monotub! "FA" Fatass variation. [Re: MagicFingers]
#21955216 - 07/17/15 08:51 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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either one is fine to clone from. smaller pins tend to run out faster.
regardless of how/when/what u clone, u should still run out some test spawn and fruit it to determine if its worth keeping around or not.
-------------------- A few thoughts on cultivation MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!! The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
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Munchauzen


Registered: 06/22/11
Posts: 14,342
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Re: First Monotub! "FA" Fatass variation. [Re: shaggyp]
#21955224 - 07/17/15 08:56 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
shaggyp said: If you case with coir it's not a casing, eh? Cuz it's a nutritive layer that just prevents your wbs from being exposed.
you can case with coir just fine
Edited by Munchauzen (07/17/15 09:05 AM)
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MagicFingers
Stranger


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Re: First Monotub! "FA" Fatass variation. [Re: blindingleaf]
#21955279 - 07/17/15 09:16 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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So you would suggest doing a small 6QT tub with the test spawn? To see if I get the pinset I'm looking for? I haven't had a lot of experience so I'm not sure what I should expect.
This was my result from my last 6QT tub with MS spawned from cakes. This was also a combination of a couple variations.
https://files.shroomery.org/files/15-25/489714052-20150620_180534.jpg
-------------------- Live the Life you Love! -MagicFingers

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blindingleaf
blue collar underworld


Registered: 07/19/13
Posts: 22,008
Loc: sub-surface unseen
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Re: First Monotub! "FA" Fatass variation. [Re: MagicFingers]
#21955288 - 07/17/15 09:18 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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if ur just starting out, best thing to do is over produce spawn and work with agar, work on dialing in tubs and how to identify good fruiting conditions.
even if u had the best cube culture ever, if u can't do the above things, its of no use to you.
-------------------- A few thoughts on cultivation MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!! The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
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insanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
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Re: First Monotub! "FA" Fatass variation. [Re: blindingleaf]
#21955296 - 07/17/15 09:22 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
blindingleaf said: if ur just starting out, best thing to do is over produce spawn and work with agar, work on dialing in tubs and how to identify good fruiting conditions.
even if u had the best cube culture ever, if u can't do the above things, its of no use to you.
Very well stated, leaf. The best cultivators can stilll get decent results from less than favorable genetics. Just remember MF, genetics are more like a potential. Without proper conditions, even good gentics can give you crappy results.
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MagicFingers
Stranger


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Re: First Monotub! "FA" Fatass variation. [Re: insanemike]
#21955485 - 07/17/15 10:23 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yeah, that's why I have been doing a ton of research before I did anything. Just like anything else, experience is the best way to learn. I've already made a few mistakes that I've learned from. isn't that the fun part?! Aside from having poor results, at least you learn!
This is my first monotub. So I need to figure out how to create the best conditions. I've been following some good teks like Franks and others.
Field capacity, depth, FAE, correct lighting, etc.
The tub has 6 holes. 2 on each long side right at the substrate level stuffed tight with polyfil and the short sides up high stuffed lightly. I'm hoping this creates proper FAE. I do have a fan in the room but not facing the tub. I also have a space heater set at 72. 6500k daylight bulb.
Anything else critical I'm missing? I'm going to keep an eye on the substrate to make sure it doesn't dry up.
I've seen some controversy on misting/fanning. I've read a good monotub doesn't need any manual work. I think right now my moisture level looks very good. So i'm definitely not going to mist. But I did do a quick fan when I put it into fruiting. Thoughts?
-------------------- Live the Life you Love! -MagicFingers

Edited by MagicFingers (07/17/15 10:25 AM)
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insanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
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Re: First Monotub! "FA" Fatass variation. [Re: MagicFingers]
#21955782 - 07/17/15 11:46 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Stuffing giant holes with polyfil is not an exact science so you may find yourself adjusting numerous times during a grow cycle to keep conditions ideal. It all comes down to ambient room temp and rh fluctuations in your grow room with shorter fluctuations being the most ideal. Frank's teks are a great source for information so keep reading up on his shit and you should be alright.
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d0urd3n
Just call me "D"

Registered: 09/15/10
Posts: 5,237
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Re: First Monotub! "FA" Fatass variation. [Re: insanemike]
#21957388 - 07/17/15 06:31 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Except you don't want to stuff holes as tight as possible when you aren't using a fan. Just keep that in mind when reading Franks teks.
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shaggyp
California Hottboi



Registered: 12/27/12
Posts: 454
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
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Re: First Monotub! "FA" Fatass variation. [Re: Munchauzen]
#21957416 - 07/17/15 06:40 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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you can case with coir just fine
Quote:
Munchauzen said:
Quote:
shaggyp said: If you case with coir it's not a casing, eh? Cuz it's a nutritive layer that just prevents your wbs from being exposed.
you can case with coir just fine
What I mean is you CAN use coir as a top layer with cubes and get great results but it's technically a nutritive layer. It will be colonized and used by the myc. Casings are by definition non nutritive and only used to hold moisture to the surface.
This is all just information my brain cut and pasted from RRs posts. I am not the master on casing, just parroting the master.
The importance of this "technicality" (I believe, keeping in mind I'm just paraphrasing RR) is that when you are working with a species that NEEDS a casing, coir is not going to cut it, you'll need to use an actual casing layer. And you don't case after colonization in this case, you just treat the coir layer as the substrate since it IS the substrate and add it when you're first mixing your bulk.
RRs method, btw, is to use a layer of coir.
-------------------- Burt Cocaine
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Darkhome
•Shaman•N•Training•



Registered: 07/10/15
Posts: 517
Loc: United States
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
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Re: First Monotub! "FA" Fatass variation. [Re: d0urd3n]
#21957443 - 07/17/15 06:47 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'm just now getting into casing myself... I want to experiment with "jiffy mix" soon...but for my current Mini-Monos... I'm going to try different mixtures of Vermiculite/Coir...properly pasteurized, not bucketed...I think if you properly pasteurize a casing layer and take reasonable precautions...It shouldn't open you up to risk of Contamination...more experienced growers correct me if need be. My first casing will be applied in a few days...I've seen 80/20 and 50/50 Coir/Verm...I would think more Verm would be beneficial, because it retains water so well...*side note* using very fine Vermiculite. Good job Magic fingers...keep us updated.
-------------------- “The shaman is not merely a sick man, or a madman; he is a sick man who has healed himself.” ~Terence McKenna~ "NOTHING"...I post or say is "TRUE"...Any pictures are taken from the Web and any conversation is just research for a fictional character. That being said; He is constantly seeking knowledge and evolving.
Edited by Darkhome (07/17/15 07:04 PM)
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Buck513

Registered: 04/17/14
Posts: 5,682
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Re: First Monotub! "FA" Fatass variation. [Re: shaggyp]
#21957446 - 07/17/15 06:47 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
shaggyp said: just parroting the master.
There's your first mistake. RR has a lot of good info, but he's also got a shitload of bad info that he eventually walked himself down from.
Coir makes a great casing. You can case with just about anything. Straight up dirt if you want.
-------------------- Fail to plan and you plan to fail. Enter the Ban Lottery
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Darkhome
•Shaman•N•Training•



Registered: 07/10/15
Posts: 517
Loc: United States
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
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Re: First Monotub! "FA" Fatass variation. [Re: d0urd3n]
#21957447 - 07/17/15 06:48 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
d0urd3n said: Except you don't want to stuff holes as tight as possible when you aren't using a fan. Just keep that in mind when reading Franks teks.
Good info Thanks bro...I'm not using a fan, but I'm thinking about getting one.
-------------------- “The shaman is not merely a sick man, or a madman; he is a sick man who has healed himself.” ~Terence McKenna~ "NOTHING"...I post or say is "TRUE"...Any pictures are taken from the Web and any conversation is just research for a fictional character. That being said; He is constantly seeking knowledge and evolving.
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Buck513

Registered: 04/17/14
Posts: 5,682
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Re: First Monotub! "FA" Fatass variation. [Re: Buck513]
#21957450 - 07/17/15 06:49 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Casing layers are not an extra vector for contam!
-------------------- Fail to plan and you plan to fail. Enter the Ban Lottery
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shaggyp
California Hottboi



Registered: 12/27/12
Posts: 454
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
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Re: First Monotub! "FA" Fatass variation. [Re: Buck513]
#21957480 - 07/17/15 06:59 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Lol, silly me tried to go find posts from multiple people about what I'm saying using the search function, and 30 minutes later I'm wading thru the whole last 9 years of schools of thought about coir.
I'll link to some of the better stuff about casing when I get off work. Did find some relevant discussions that aren't a decade old.
-------------------- Burt Cocaine
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shaggyp
California Hottboi



Registered: 12/27/12
Posts: 454
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
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Re: First Monotub! "FA" Fatass variation. [Re: shaggyp]
#21957483 - 07/17/15 07:01 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Btw when you are using the search function you can use the advanced search and filter only stuff from trusted cultivators, OP. Sorry if that's obvious but it makes research on this site way faster. Otherwise there's soooooo much to wade thru.
-------------------- Burt Cocaine
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up



Registered: 01/24/13
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Loc: Babylon
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Re: First Monotub! "FA" Fatass variation. [Re: shaggyp]
#21957496 - 07/17/15 07:03 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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best way to learn about casing layers is to go case a bulk sub!
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Darkhome
•Shaman•N•Training•



Registered: 07/10/15
Posts: 517
Loc: United States
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
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Re: First Monotub! "FA" Fatass variation. [Re: spacechildo]
#21957509 - 07/17/15 07:07 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
spacechildo said: best way to learn about casing layers is to go case a bulk sub! 
You are very right sir...I've learned a lot from the very patient people on this site...but I've learned more from doing... I'm about to case in a few days, when I do I'll start a new thread.
-------------------- “The shaman is not merely a sick man, or a madman; he is a sick man who has healed himself.” ~Terence McKenna~ "NOTHING"...I post or say is "TRUE"...Any pictures are taken from the Web and any conversation is just research for a fictional character. That being said; He is constantly seeking knowledge and evolving.
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Buck513

Registered: 04/17/14
Posts: 5,682
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Re: First Monotub! "FA" Fatass variation. [Re: Darkhome]
#21957519 - 07/17/15 07:09 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Uhh...that's why you limit your results to within the last few years
-------------------- Fail to plan and you plan to fail. Enter the Ban Lottery
Edited by Buck513 (07/17/15 07:17 PM)
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MagicFingers
Stranger


Registered: 04/30/15
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Re: First Monotub! "FA" Fatass variation. [Re: Buck513]
#21989917 - 07/24/15 11:48 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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So I started to get some pinning earlier this week. But I didn't want to give an update until I had something to show. So far I think using a casing would have been good to get a better pinset. I'm definitively going to do that on the next tub. I also just received my agar kit. So I'll get that going soon enough.
A few days ago I noticed some yellowing in the center of the tub. I'm almost 100% sure these are metabolies. A way for the Myc to protect itself from contam.Now it seems that the myc is growing over the top of the metabolies. I really hope it isnt a cotton mold or something like that.
Even though I thought I did proper field capacity it seems that I'm getting a little pooling. But I think it is from the water coming down from the sides of the tub.
I'll get some pictures up later tonight on how everything looks.
Live and Learn! :P
-------------------- Live the Life you Love! -MagicFingers

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taGyo
Strainiac/AMU



Registered: 10/16/14
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Re: First Monotub! "FA" Fatass variation. [Re: MagicFingers]
#21989922 - 07/24/15 11:50 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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-------------------- Gyo's Better Grows TNF Q&A AMU Q&A Dominus fortunae meae sum
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d0urd3n
Just call me "D"

Registered: 09/15/10
Posts: 5,237
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Re: First Monotub! "FA" Fatass variation. [Re: taGyo]
#21990384 - 07/24/15 01:58 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Now theres a fella I haven't seen for a while.
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MagicFingers
Stranger


Registered: 04/30/15
Posts: 214
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Re: First Monotub! "FA" Fatass variation. [Re: d0urd3n]
#21992719 - 07/24/15 09:36 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Well, now that I have taken a closer look I am sad to say it appears I have some green mold. Hence the metabolies. Also a good reason for a crappy pinset, I would assume.
It is embarrassing to have this happen. But I guess it happens to all of us. I was excited to show all of you a good first time monotub. But I guess that is to be expected. My friend has had a lot of the mean green. Says the lighter color green is penicillin.
My question at this point is when did the contamination occur? I guess it doesn't matter at this point. I just need to throw it out and start over. Live and learn!
At least I still have some of these spores along with some Golden Teacher, Creeper, and B+. Doing some research those seem like good choices.
I'm still going to do some agar work and get a good isolation. I'm not going to mess with a clone on anything from this tub. I'm going to focus on getting a ton of spawn going for now.
I promise I'll be able to share a successful grow in the future!
If you are interested, here are the pictures of my epic failure! *cry*
-------------------- Live the Life you Love! -MagicFingers

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Buck513
Registered: 04/17/14
Posts: 5,682
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Re: First Monotub! "FA" Fatass variation. [Re: MagicFingers]
#21993060 - 07/24/15 10:38 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Dirty spawn.
-------------------- Fail to plan and you plan to fail. Enter the Ban Lottery
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taGyo
Strainiac/AMU



Registered: 10/16/14
Posts: 18,802
Loc: Journal Land
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
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Re: First Monotub! "FA" Fatass variation. [Re: MagicFingers]
#21993078 - 07/24/15 10:41 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
MagicFingers said:

Happens to the best of us. Definitely dirty spawn.
-------------------- Gyo's Better Grows TNF Q&A AMU Q&A Dominus fortunae meae sum
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