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The Medic
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Can you grow different mushroom species in the same jar?
#21950389 - 07/16/15 03:42 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I don't mean different strains - I mean completely different species. Do mushroom mycelium have any ability to kill competing mushroom species? Obviously they would both compete for resources, but I'm asking if mushroom species A would eliminate mushroom species B directly, not through indirect means (out competing).
I typically work outside every few days for a neighbor, and he has a lot of mushrooms in his yard. I never directly touch them if possible, but I'm guessing their spores are littered throughout his property, and some inevitably get on my clothing. As irrational as it is to worry about, I can't help but worry that a spore or two from something like a Destroying Angel could potentially get into my jars (which are only just starting to colonize). [not like I couldn't just ID it if that happened, but anyway, I digress]
But besides my irrational fear, I actually am very curious as to the biology of how mushrooms interact with each other. I was unable to find any question/answer to this through Google.
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blindingleaf
blue collar underworld


Registered: 07/19/13
Posts: 22,008
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Re: Can you grow different mushroom species in the same jar? [Re: The Medic]
#21950431 - 07/16/15 04:18 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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unless ur filters are crappy, don't worry too much. i work in a warehouse covered in dust, so i change my clothes when i get home.
-------------------- A few thoughts on cultivation MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!! The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
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Laughingcowwa
Your mum loves it.



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Re: Can you grow different mushroom species in the same jar? [Re: blindingleaf]
#21950463 - 07/16/15 04:45 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Think you goto nothing to worry about there mate. even if you put two strains of cubes in a tek one will take over
-------------------- Those who doubt me, suck cock by choice
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Inocuole
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Re: Can you grow different mushroom species in the same jar? [Re: Laughingcowwa]
#21950506 - 07/16/15 05:14 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Laughingcowwa said: Think you goto nothing to worry about there mate. even if you put two strains of cubes in a tek one will take over
Or, they won't. They could grow half & half or not fruit at all, on top of plenty of other possibilities, including a new strain entirely.
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Akurt5
in Wonder Land



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Re: Can you grow different mushroom species in the same jar? [Re: The Medic]
#21950516 - 07/16/15 05:25 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I am absolutely not an expert or even experienced. But I'm thinking providing there are enough resources and space for the different types of mycelium they should grow harmoniously. However taking into account things like effectiveness of collecting resources, mycelium density and how far and fast each mycelium is comfortable growing you would find one will most likely grow through and overrun a less dense mycelium, over populate or simply out compete it's. But I don't think they calculate assaults on each other. It is most likely that the most fit for the environment will prevail. So when a contamination appears in a partly colonised jar it is effectively a race for the mycelium to use up all the food before a most likely more effective mold catches up to its head start.
-------------------- I'm tired.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
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Re: Can you grow different mushroom species in the same jar? [Re: Laughingcowwa]
#21950673 - 07/16/15 06:55 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Laughingcowwa said: Think you goto nothing to worry about there mate. even if you put two strains of cubes in a tek one will take over
don't give advice when you don't know what you're talking about.
You have 100+ strains in a jar if you grow from spores. We buy varieties not strains. Spores have no clue they have a variety name. If you grow from spores your mushrooms themselves will be more than one strain. Strains work as a single organism and transfer water throughout the whole substrate.
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spacechildo
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Registered: 01/24/13
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Re: Can you grow different mushroom species in the same jar? [Re: bodhisatta]
#21951143 - 07/16/15 09:42 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I saw someone say what that dude said in the strain thread and ever since it has popped up almost daily.
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: Can you grow different mushroom species in the same jar? [Re: spacechildo]
#21951165 - 07/16/15 09:50 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'm pretty sure he's asking about 2 species, not strains in the same species. Unfortunately it's way too vague to tell you. Some species depend on others to germinate and grow over them, whereas others can live in harmony side by side.
Generally speaking though, cubensis will take over other species if it has the upper hand. However unless you opened the jars in open air or waved your arms around over open jars, you got nothing to worry about.
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spacechildo
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Re: Can you grow different mushroom species in the same jar? [Re: Mad Season]
#21951172 - 07/16/15 09:52 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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not sure if its workman or maybe kizzle but in contam forum you can see cubes and pans in the same tray, think it was 2 diff spawn jars mixed together tho.
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MudaFuka
Poppin bottles



Registered: 12/14/13
Posts: 18,648
Loc: Canada
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Re: Can you grow different mushroom species in the same jar? [Re: spacechildo]
#21951193 - 07/16/15 09:55 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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When two different species are present in the same substrate. Generally the more dominant species will win out and you will see only it's fruits. I've put pans and cubs together and only the cubes showed up in the end. Whe oysters and cubes were mixed. I wound up with only oysters. If a tub is spawned with two species and they are kept to oposit sides of the tub you will likely see both species of fruits since they each have a chance to colonise there own area of the tub before one species can take out the other.
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spacechildo
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Re: Can you grow different mushroom species in the same jar? [Re: MudaFuka]
#21951212 - 07/16/15 09:59 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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the post I found showed pans or cubes coming in first, and then the other species came in later flushes. cant remember which way it was or who wrote it 
but as you said, I dont think anything will do well with oysters or reishi they'll just be dinner..
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MudaFuka
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Re: Can you grow different mushroom species in the same jar? [Re: spacechildo]
#21951233 - 07/16/15 10:03 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'd be interested to see myc wars between reishi and oysters. Reishi is stronger and colonises pretty fast but oysters colonise quite quickly and fruit much faster. Maybe I'll try it out when I have more time.
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
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Re: Can you grow different mushroom species in the same jar? [Re: MudaFuka]
#21951292 - 07/16/15 10:17 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Here we go!
Quote:
Workman said:
#5 Psilocybe cubensis (Cubes)
Psilocybe cubensis can contaminate Panaeolus cyanescens (and allies) cultivations and more rarely other species. The reasons are the same as with oyster contamination (see #3 above) with the additional factor of spores intentionally or mistakenly mislabeled (both species have dark spores so the spore prints are visually similar)
Interestingly, trays of fully colonized Panaeolus can produce a normal flush of Panaeolus mushrooms before becoming overwhelmed by Cubensis mycelium and fruiting cubensis for the 2nd and following flushes. This generally happens when both species are grown in close proximity and the grow area is loaded with free cubensis spores. It appears that the Panaeolus colonized substrate is selective for cubensis colonization. This hints at the possibility of sequential use of manure based substrates.
 
Although Cubensis contamination is common, pictures are almost always of one species or the other. Currently I am only able to find one good Shroomery posted picture showing both species growing in the same container. The two pictures on the right are from the thehawkseye and mycotopia. If I find more Shroomery posted pictures I will replace the the offsite ones.
Pans don't look like pans
Rogue mushrooms
Cubensis instead of Oysters
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MudaFuka
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Re: Can you grow different mushroom species in the same jar? [Re: Mad Season]
#21951317 - 07/16/15 10:24 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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That is a more dominant species germinating and taking hold of a substrate already colonised by a less dominant species. The pans still fruit because they were already established but they aren't strong enough to keep the cubs from germinating and taking over a portion of the substrate.
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
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Re: Can you grow different mushroom species in the same jar? [Re: MudaFuka]
#21951353 - 07/16/15 10:30 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I think it's hella cool though that cubes germinated on established pans, and took it over in subsequent flushes
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spacechildo
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Re: Can you grow different mushroom species in the same jar? [Re: Mad Season]
#21951364 - 07/16/15 10:32 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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yeah, that was the post I thought of but I must have remembered it differently or just focused too much on this thing; " It appears that the Panaeolus colonized substrate is selective for cubensis colonization. This hints at the possibility of sequential use of manure based substrates. "
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The Medic
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Re: Can you grow different mushroom species in the same jar? [Re: Mad Season]
#21952082 - 07/16/15 01:32 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mad Season said: I'm pretty sure he's asking about 2 species, not strains in the same species. Unfortunately it's way too vague to tell you. Some species depend on others to germinate and grow over them, whereas others can live in harmony side by side.
Generally speaking though, cubensis will take over other species if it has the upper hand. However unless you opened the jars in open air or waved your arms around over open jars, you got nothing to worry about.
>opened the jars in open air I actually did do this for a few jars. You see, my whole brown rice jars were extremely slow to germinate; so slow I thought the spores were defective. So I lifted my aluminum foil lids off slightly (in hindsight I should have definitely gotten tyvek or something similar to that) and within a few days I had germination.
With a few of the jars, I completely lifted the lids off. But with 5 or so other ones, I took the lid off and replaced it with a coffee filter right away. Guess I'll just have to see.
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MudaFuka
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Re: Can you grow different mushroom species in the same jar? [Re: The Medic]
#21952155 - 07/16/15 01:53 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Are you sure it was germination of your cube spores and not some mold that got in when you opened them.
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KauaiOrca
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Registered: 08/12/08
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Re: Can you grow different mushroom species in the same jar? [Re: MudaFuka]
#21952438 - 07/16/15 03:18 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Would be really interesting to take a quart of colonized grain of cubes and some other species and then mix those two grains together thoroughly then case those all mixed up grains to see what would happen??? I would think that if each species had colonized a quart of grain thoroughly, the ability for one species to "defeat" the other would be eliminated but I have no idea.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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Sadburner
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Re: Can you grow different mushroom species in the same jar? *DELETED* [Re: KauaiOrca]
#21952494 - 07/16/15 03:34 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Post deleted by SadburnerReason for deletion: .
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MudaFuka
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Re: Can you grow different mushroom species in the same jar? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#21952500 - 07/16/15 03:37 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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It really depends on the species. If you mixed cubes with a fast agresive wood loving edible like oysters. The cubs would likely be completely over run.
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The Medic
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Re: Can you grow different mushroom species in the same jar? [Re: Sadburner]
#21952586 - 07/16/15 03:51 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
MudaFuka said: Are you sure it was germination of your cube spores and not some mold that got in when you opened them.
Allow me to clarify. I had my jars completely covered in tin foil with no gas exchange. I then loosened the tin foil lids on 3 jars so that air could get in through the 5 holes I made in the top of the metal Mason jar lid.
I did the same with 7 other jars, except instead of loosening the tin foil, I removed the tin foil and quickly put on a coffee filter as a lid.
Then a day or two later white fuzzy growth started forming about 1-2 inches down in the jars, near each side of the container where I injected spores. It's possible they are contaminants, but I find it unlikely when it coincides so specifically with where I inoculated the jars.
Quote:
Sadburner said:
Let me know if your jars start fruiting Destroying Angels. 
Shall do. Stranger things have happened...
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MudaFuka
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Re: Can you grow different mushroom species in the same jar? [Re: The Medic]
#21952604 - 07/16/15 03:55 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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If germination started in 5h3 middle of the jar you are probably OK. FYI coffee filters do next to nothing to protect your jars frome mold and bacteria. The pours are much to large to be used as a filter.
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spacechildo
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Re: Can you grow different mushroom species in the same jar? [Re: MudaFuka]
#21952616 - 07/16/15 03:58 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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something that hasn't even germinated yet dont need ge it doesnt make gases yet..
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The Medic
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Re: Can you grow different mushroom species in the same jar? [Re: MudaFuka]
#21953034 - 07/16/15 05:49 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
spacechildo said: something that hasn't even germinated yet dont need ge it doesnt make gases yet..
Still, the fact that a few days after I lifted the lid off lead to germination, while other jars didn't germinate until I did the same several days later makes me think it was GE that did it.
Quote:
MudaFuka said: If germination started in 5h3 middle of the jar you are probably OK. FYI coffee filters do next to nothing to protect your jars frome mold and bacteria. The pours are much to large to be used as a filter.
But how are you supposed to know if it's growing in the middle when you can't see it, eh? I'm just going to have to hope my still air box keeps things sterile and that I don't lose any more jars.
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Mad Season
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Re: Can you grow different mushroom species in the same jar? [Re: The Medic]
#21953050 - 07/16/15 05:53 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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That's just luck. I've had spores germinate on agar with zero ge.
You should only have the jar filled 2/3rds the way. You should be able to see the top
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spacechildo
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Re: Can you grow different mushroom species in the same jar? [Re: The Medic]
#21953055 - 07/16/15 05:55 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Medic said:
Quote:
spacechildo said: something that hasn't even germinated yet dont need ge it doesnt make gases yet..
Still, the fact that a few days after I lifted the lid off lead to germination, while other jars didn't germinate until I did the same several days later makes me think it was GE that did it.
Quote:
MudaFuka said: If germination started in 5h3 middle of the jar you are probably OK. FYI coffee filters do next to nothing to protect your jars frome mold and bacteria. The pours are much to large to be used as a filter.
But how are you supposed to know if it's growing in the middle when you can't see it, eh? I'm just going to have to hope my still air box keeps things sterile and that I don't lose any more jars.
completely random. a thing that isnt there doesnt need ge. myc grows in 360deg that's how you know the center is done!
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MudaFuka
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Re: Can you grow different mushroom species in the same jar? [Re: spacechildo]
#21953248 - 07/16/15 06:37 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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When I said middle I was referring to the inoculation site on the side. Not the center. If your growth started on top after opening them you can be pretty sure it's contam.
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The Medic
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Re: Can you grow different mushroom species in the same jar? [Re: MudaFuka]
#21953493 - 07/16/15 07:42 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
MudaFuka said: When I said middle I was referring to the inoculation site on the side. Not the center. If your growth started on top after opening them you can be pretty sure it's contam.
I see what you mean. With one of them it's hard to tell. Something that is white and fuzzy and looks like mycelium growth is growing on the top of the rice, but it's isolated in the center of the jar where I injected. Guess I'll just have to wait and see if it's a contam or not.
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