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Astral Pain
Strange

Registered: 11/10/14
Posts: 2,923
Loc: Chicago
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Baby body parts for sale(now a 2nd video) 1
#21950379 - 07/16/15 03:30 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I've been hearing the audio from this undercover video of a planned parenthood official the last few days, and it's even worse when I saw the video. Sorry, but it makes me sick to see this and I couldn't keep it bottled up, and the more people who see this and are aware the better imo.
EDIT: Changed article http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3161040/Planned-Parenthood-s-doctor-caught-undercover-video-discussing-sale-aborted-fetus-organs-potential-buyers-including-body-worth.html
Quote:
A shocking video has emerged that shows a Planned Parenthood doctor discussing the sale of body parts taken from aborted fetuses with who she believes to be potential buyers from a medical company.
Dr. Deborah Nucatola, who has been the Senior Director of Medical Services at Planned Parenthood Federation of America since February of 2009, is seen on camera as she discusses selling hearts, lungs, livers and even the muscles of aborted fetuses.
She also discusses using 'partial-birth abortion' techniques to deliver some of these organs intact
.
It's downright appalling to see this woman speak so cavalier about the caliper placement on the babies body to spare certain body parts while she stuffs her disgusting face with food. I'm sure most here can't relate as of yet, but for those of us who have sat through an ultrasound and witnessed their unborn child's heartbeat can attest to this being murder. There may be politics behind the legality of the age, but there's a point where it's just sickening.
This should be front page news along with a full investigation, prosecution, and arrest of this woman. Not a peep from the MSM and only time will tell whether anything becomes of this revelation.
There's a video in the article above, but I found it posted in YouTube as well.
EDIT: Second video as of 7-21
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/07/21/new-video-shows-another-planned-parenthood-doctor-haggling-price-of-baby-body-parts/
Quote:
In the second video released today by the Center for Medical Progress, yet another senior medical adviser to Planned Parenthood of America appears to negotiate the price of selling baby body parts to actors playing entrepreneurs from a start-up biotech firm.
-------------------- "I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out" -Bill Hicks-
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Edited by Astral Pain (07/21/15 07:39 AM)
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Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 19,584
Loc: outer space
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Astral Pain] 8
#21950386 - 07/16/15 03:39 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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If I have an abortion and wish to donate a fetus to scientific research, why should I not be able to? I'm really not seeing the problem here.
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Astral Pain
Strange

Registered: 11/10/14
Posts: 2,923
Loc: Chicago
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Crystal G]
#21950392 - 07/16/15 03:47 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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How far along? What the lady is describing in the video appears to be partial birth. She would give you $30 to $100 for specific parts from what I heard.
-------------------- "I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out" -Bill Hicks-
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Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 19,584
Loc: outer space
Last seen: 8 months, 6 days
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Astral Pain] 4
#21950396 - 07/16/15 03:51 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Partial birth abortions are not legal in a single state in the USA. The end of the 2nd trimester, is the farthest you can have an abortion legally in the USA, and even then that is only available in a couple of states, such as California (gotta love my state ). Most states only allow an abortion up until 12 weeks.
I saw the video, it was indeed quoted $30 to $100 per specimen. I still don't see what's wrong with the concept. It is technically dead tissue and medical waste. Might as well be using it to fund stem cell research, legislators should have never impeded that.
Edited by Crystal G (07/16/15 04:00 AM)
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Shroomslip
Architekt



Registered: 11/25/12
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Crystal G]
#21950397 - 07/16/15 03:52 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'm not sure where to say I stand on this. Lot of conflicting emotion/thoughts.
I am pro choice, but at the same time this just seems so callous. Then again we have organ donation for the dead, but even that can be callous. My grandfather wasn't an organ donor, and not even hours after he died, we had people calling us up asking if they could have his corneas. He was a person, not a fucking classic car that up and died that you should just swoop in and try to scavenge parts from. The other side of that is that he didn't need them anymore and they could have improved someone's quality of life.
I dunno.. I see both sides of it and it's hard to form an opinion one way or another on it.
--------------------
With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way. I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today. Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear. I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear. You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline
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Astral Pain
Strange

Registered: 11/10/14
Posts: 2,923
Loc: Chicago
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Shroomslip] 1
#21950404 - 07/16/15 03:56 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'm the same way, but I think the fact that it's a defenseless baby makes it worse than someone donating their organs after natural death. It's apparent they make more money the older the baby is, but there's a point where it becomes flat out murder.
-------------------- "I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out" -Bill Hicks-
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Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 19,584
Loc: outer space
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Astral Pain] 5
#21950409 - 07/16/15 04:01 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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They are aborted fetuses. Aborted. As in not alive. Dead tissue mate. The fetuses do not come out alive when they pull them out.
Better to go towards scientific research, as opposed to simply getting thrown in the dumpster and getting wasted.
Basically if you listen to the lady's reasoning for using an ultrasound during an abortion (which was then compared to "partial birth abortion" procedures in the video), it is to keep the liver and heart intact, since most vendors and researchers want specific organs for research I guess.
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badchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,372
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Astral Pain] 7
#21950414 - 07/16/15 04:03 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I missed the crux of the argument, why shouldn't organs and body tissue be used for research?
-------------------- ...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did. Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27. ...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely. Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
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Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 19,584
Loc: outer space
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: badchad] 4
#21950416 - 07/16/15 04:05 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
badchad said: I missed the crux of the argument, why shouldn't organs and body tissue be used for research?
Because babies.
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Astral Pain
Strange

Registered: 11/10/14
Posts: 2,923
Loc: Chicago
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Crystal G] 1
#21950417 - 07/16/15 04:10 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Dead fetuses would not be a problem, she is talking about harvesting living baby parts. The living part is the entire problem.
-------------------- "I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out" -Bill Hicks-
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Hayoxp
Enlil sucks cock


Registered: 06/05/15
Posts: 812
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Re: Baby body parts for sale *DELETED* [Re: Crystal G] 1
#21950418 - 07/16/15 04:10 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Post deleted by EnlilReason for deletion: Not pub appropriate
-------------------- Enlil is trash, needs to end himself.
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badchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,372
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Crystal G]
#21950421 - 07/16/15 04:11 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Crystal G said:
Quote:
badchad said: I missed the crux of the argument, why shouldn't organs and body tissue be used for research?
Because babies.
At least they added the "selling baby parts" twist to spice it up a bit.
What if they say four hail marys at the end of the procedure, doesn't that make it better?
-------------------- ...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did. Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27. ...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely. Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
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Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 19,584
Loc: outer space
Last seen: 8 months, 6 days
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Astral Pain] 1
#21950424 - 07/16/15 04:14 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Astral Pain said: Dead fetuses would not be a problem, she is talking about harvesting living baby parts. The living part is the entire problem.
Could you point to the specific part of the video where she's talking about harvesting live babies? I heard her talk about using ultrasound to preserve the internal organs and keep them intact.
What do you mean live baby "parts?" An organ by itself is not alive. If I took your liver out your body, your liver is not a live entity.
Also, Hayoxp: Obvious troll is obvious troll. Want to kick my ass? Come on over.
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Astral Pain
Strange

Registered: 11/10/14
Posts: 2,923
Loc: Chicago
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Hayoxp]
#21950430 - 07/16/15 04:17 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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They are alive before they go in and rip the parts off. If it was a rotting carcass it would be useless.
-------------------- "I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out" -Bill Hicks-
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Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 19,584
Loc: outer space
Last seen: 8 months, 6 days
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Astral Pain] 1
#21950437 - 07/16/15 04:22 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Astral Pain said: They are alive before they go in and rip the parts off. If it was a rotting carcass it would be useless.
Well…. yes….. obviously a fetus is alive before an abortion takes place. The fetus however does not come out alive. It is disassembled and taken apart in the womb, that is how an abortion works.
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Hayoxp
Enlil sucks cock


Registered: 06/05/15
Posts: 812
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
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Re: Baby body parts for sale *DELETED* [Re: Crystal G]
#21950438 - 07/16/15 04:23 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Post deleted by EnlilReason for deletion: Not pub appropriate
-------------------- Enlil is trash, needs to end himself.
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pirate-blues


Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 13,656
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Crystal G] 1
#21950441 - 07/16/15 04:23 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Crystal G said: They are aborted fetuses. Aborted. As in not alive. Dead tissue mate. The fetuses do not come out alive when they pull them out.
Better to go towards scientific research, as opposed to simply getting thrown in the dumpster and getting wasted.
Basically if you listen to the lady's reasoning for using an ultrasound during an abortion (which was then compared to "partial birth abortion" procedures in the video), it is to keep the liver and heart intact, since most vendors and researchers want specific organs for research I guess.
Thankyou. There are countless ways this process helps others, the medical field is advancing rapidly towards curing a lot of really horrific things thanks to stem cell research.
I see no issue with this whatsoever.
http://reason.com/blog/2015/07/15/planned-parenthood-and-fetal-tissue
Sure, the lady might talk about it in kind of a stony manner, but what do you want? These aren't babies, these are aborted fetuses that never developed. This is just how people in the medical field are - the polite dinner conversation of a group of doctors would shock and disgust the rest of us.
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Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 19,584
Loc: outer space
Last seen: 8 months, 6 days
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Hayoxp] 2
#21950443 - 07/16/15 04:24 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Look at meeeee I'm so hardcore on the internets 
How fucking stupid do you have to be that you can't even engage in a debate without pulling the "I'm so hardcore I'll beat your ass" card (which no, you can't, I'm willing to be money I'm twice as strong as you are). Like I said, feel free to drop by.
*edit* That was directed to the obvious troll, not to pirate blues
Edited by Crystal G (07/16/15 04:40 AM)
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mndfreeze 
Shroomery Secret Service




Registered: 04/22/02
Posts: 20,529
Loc: PuppetMasterFlash
Last seen: 18 hours, 38 minutes
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Astral Pain] 1
#21950444 - 07/16/15 04:24 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Someone fell victim to the propoganda machine.
p.s. its a machine, THAT EATS BAAAABBIIIEESSSS...
-------------------- Nothing says love like grannies prolapsed anus! quote]Urb said: I know... Its fucked up... Ill fix it minyana..[/quote]
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Astral Pain
Strange

Registered: 11/10/14
Posts: 2,923
Loc: Chicago
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Astral Pain]
#21950446 - 07/16/15 04:26 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yes, but that doesn't make it any better. It just makes it legal, but to a point. Try reading the article if you have just watched the video at this point.
-------------------- "I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out" -Bill Hicks-
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Astral Pain] 4
#21950460 - 07/16/15 04:41 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Jesus. THe majority of people on here is pro choice. Within reasonable limitations (only abort up to a certain stage, prior assessment of the pregnant woman, etc), it's a sane concept. But when someone decides it may help medical advances if we actually do something useful with the tissue that is left over after an abortion, the same supposedly sane people who claim to be pro-choice go into some fit. Get a grip guys...it's the best you can do. Well-considered, sane abortions AND further medical science. The principle is just ethically sound. That there are economics involved is a fact of life; as a society we have decided long ago that human labor as well as production tools and assets are subject of economic traffic. Placing anything related to the human body outside of that would be an asinine stance that has never worked in any society ever, and never will.
Get a grip. Think clearly; the rabid antiabortionists are trying to trick you into believing personal choice is a bad thing by building a charade around the practice. It's a low-down, dirty tactic and you're falling for it. It's pathetic.
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mndfreeze 
Shroomery Secret Service




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Posts: 20,529
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: koraks] 1
#21950466 - 07/16/15 04:48 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I just want to eat babies. Somestimes I'll even cook em first.
WHY IS THE WORLD SO AGAINST ME. I DONT UNDERSTAND.
-------------------- Nothing says love like grannies prolapsed anus! quote]Urb said: I know... Its fucked up... Ill fix it minyana..[/quote]
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Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 19,584
Loc: outer space
Last seen: 8 months, 6 days
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: koraks]
#21950467 - 07/16/15 04:49 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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The utter hypocrisy of wishing death and genocide on others for promoting the scientific research of dead fetuses. "B-b-b-b-but…. those poor babies!!! " Clearly life is not at all sacred at all to you.
Your reaction is hilarious. I would eat a fetus pizza just to watch you cry and at all the butthurt.
Now… putting aside the attention whore who constantly needs to derail every single thread into one of his retarded bitch-fests….
Keep falling prey to propaganda. People like you are way too easily manipulated.
Quote:
Unedited Transcript: "Nobody Should Be 'Selling' Tissue. That's Just Not The Goal Here." The Center for Medical Progress also released a full transcript and longer version of the video with Dr. Nucatola -- featuring more than 150 minutes of additional footage -- which include crucial portions that were edited out. In one case, Nucatola says, "no affiliate should be doing anything that's not like, reasonable and customary. This is not- nobody should be 'selling' tissue. That's just not the goal here."
Quote:
But The Unedited Footage Reveals PPFA Official Was Discussing Reimbursement Costs For Legal Donation Process During Those Missing Minutes.
PPFA Official Repeatedly Referred To "Tissue Donation," Not Sale, In Unedited Transcript. Dr. Nucatola repeatedly refers to "tissue donation" during the conversation. From the Center for Medical Progress' transcript (emphasis added):
http://mediamatters.org/research/2015/07/14/attack-on-planned-parenthood-3-deceptive-edits/204419
*edit* And yes, I'm underage. Which means that considering my 2007 membership registration, I obviously started using drugs when I was 9.
Edited by Crystal G (07/16/15 05:01 AM)
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makaveli8x8
Stranger

Registered: 02/28/06
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Crystal G] 1
#21950491 - 07/16/15 05:08 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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i was in 5th grade when i started, don't feel bad crystal its nothing to be ashamed of, its when you quit thats important.
anyways i didn't know people were getting paid for abortions, now i know why women were fighting so hard for them now, it all makes perfect fucking sense
--------------------
  We were sent to hell for eternity Ø h® We play on earth to pass the time Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.
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Hayoxp
Enlil sucks cock


Registered: 06/05/15
Posts: 812
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Crystal G] 1
#21950513 - 07/16/15 05:20 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I think you clearly misunderstood me, it's not about the fetuses, it's about the self perseveration by trash ways. How desperate are humans going to get? People will steal your organs in parts of the world where no one would find you just because they want to survive themselves. There is no difference between THAT and me killing off at least 50% of the world's population because they are killing me with their pollution. People are their own illness, when they fucking learn that then maybe they can advance into something greater.
How about this then, once one of your organs starts to shut down go fuck someone and let these people take YOUR fetuses' organs for your own survival. If you're okay with that then there is no hope for your devilish mentality. I rather live on in my child than live due to my child. Pathetic.
Or how about this, why don't we just mass produce fetuses and grow them in isolation brainwashing them to be only there for our own purposes? We can send them to other planets without caring for their well being as test subjects born only to do one thing, find a new planet like Earth that we can go and infect?
-------------------- Enlil is trash, needs to end himself.
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TheGreenArrow
Goodbye, Mr. Chops.



Registered: 06/22/12
Posts: 15,270
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Hayoxp]
#21950584 - 07/16/15 06:17 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Hayoxp said: Bitch, I'd smack you and whoever you're going to cry to before you'd open your filthy junkie mouth. People like you should be rounded up.
You're a hateful little person aren't you? Who shit in your Post toasty oaties?
I don't see much of a problem if the child isn't going to be born anyway. Lets face it there are too many people in this world and it seems the dumbest of us decides to have the most children. AlsoI think it's way more than acceptable to research on the tissue if there's not actually a living thing on the other side of it. Fuck man it's not coming back at that point.
-------------------- A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, conn a ship, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve an equation, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.- Robert A. Heinlein Saint RedBow of the Shroomey Loomey-Patron Saint of Sandbaggin Sumbitchs
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Hayoxp
Enlil sucks cock


Registered: 06/05/15
Posts: 812
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
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Just because there is no heart beat doesn't mean it's not alive, the heart is developing while the mother's heart pumps the blood for the ALIVE fetus. It wouldn't need oxygen if it wasn't alive. Tell me why this woman in the video doesn't allow men to cum bucket her fucking cunt so she can have infinite fetuses to work on?
-------------------- Enlil is trash, needs to end himself.
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TheGreenArrow
Goodbye, Mr. Chops.



Registered: 06/22/12
Posts: 15,270
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Hayoxp] 3
#21950623 - 07/16/15 06:36 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Where do they make people like you? It's okay to be THAT hateful to a person just becuase you're on the interwebz? You seem like a trashy person to me. Sounds like somebody needs a hug.
-------------------- A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, conn a ship, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve an equation, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.- Robert A. Heinlein Saint RedBow of the Shroomey Loomey-Patron Saint of Sandbaggin Sumbitchs
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pirate-blues


Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 13,656
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Hayoxp]
#21950670 - 07/16/15 06:54 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Hayoxp said: Just because there is no heart beat doesn't mean it's not alive, the heart is developing while the mother's heart pumps the blood for the ALIVE fetus. It wouldn't need oxygen if it wasn't alive. Tell me why this woman in the video doesn't allow men to cum bucket her fucking cunt so she can have infinite fetuses to work on?
Alive =/= sentience.
There are billions of things in this world that are alive, you've got billions upon billions of cells that are also alive inside you right now.
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Lucis
Nutritional Yeast

Registered: 03/28/15
Posts: 15,622
Last seen: 1 month, 29 days
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Astral Pain]
#21950692 - 07/16/15 07:01 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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sounds like something you would expect to hear coming out of Africa, those dudes do all sorts of strange stuff like this.
-------------------- ©️
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1234go
Ban Lotto Champion


Registered: 07/08/09
Posts: 53,864
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Hayoxp] 1
#21950704 - 07/16/15 07:06 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
TheGreenArrow said: Where do they make people like you? It's okay to be THAT hateful to a person just becuase you're on the interwebz? You seem like a trashy person to me. Sounds like somebody needs a hug.
Yeah I take back what I said the other day, you are lame.
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Psychonautica
Cuddly Wuddly Fuccboi


Registered: 04/20/15
Posts: 10,854
Loc: Free Soul & IISkuNkII
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: 1234go]
#21950774 - 07/16/15 07:33 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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At first I thought they were getting sold to restaurants and shit and I was disappointed to say the least.
-------------------- The chances of you even being born, Were forty million to one. There's two parts of the statistic And I want you to live through one 3/8/95 - 7/10/15 Rest In Paradise, Brother. Sheekle said: yeah, i said i was afraid of psychonautica

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1234go
Ban Lotto Champion


Registered: 07/08/09
Posts: 53,864
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fetus a la carte
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TheGreenArrow
Goodbye, Mr. Chops.



Registered: 06/22/12
Posts: 15,270
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: 1234go]
#21950797 - 07/16/15 07:42 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Have to love the re-imagining of an old fashion dead baby joke.
-------------------- A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, conn a ship, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve an equation, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.- Robert A. Heinlein Saint RedBow of the Shroomey Loomey-Patron Saint of Sandbaggin Sumbitchs
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Kinko
Stranger



Registered: 01/07/11
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Shroomslip]
#21950808 - 07/16/15 07:46 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shroomslip said: I'm not sure where to say I stand on this. Lot of conflicting emotion/thoughts.
I am pro choice, but at the same time this just seems so callous. Then again we have organ donation for the dead, but even that can be callous. My grandfather wasn't an organ donor, and not even hours after he died, we had people calling us up asking if they could have his corneas. He was a person, not a fucking classic car that up and died that you should just swoop in and try to scavenge parts from. The other side of that is that he didn't need them anymore and they could have improved someone's quality of life.
I dunno.. I see both sides of it and it's hard to form an opinion one way or another on it.
That made me sick you let your uncles organs rott away instead of saving someones life?? Fucking pride man or is it ego??either way i hope you are never in need of an organ donor.
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1234go
Ban Lotto Champion


Registered: 07/08/09
Posts: 53,864
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Kinko] 1
#21950816 - 07/16/15 07:49 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Shut up kinko, put yourself in his shoes.
I'd be put off to say the least if i got calls requesting a recently passed family members body parts.
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Adden

Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 39,201
Loc:
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: 1234go]
#21950949 - 07/16/15 08:44 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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What's the difference in being an organ donor vs. donating an aborted fetus?
You're dead so who cares? If my eyes could help a blind kid see, great. If my aborted child could help research into curing xyz, great.
No one makes it out of here alive.
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Malcolm_Xtasy
Oh baby what Is you doin??



Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 13,851
Loc:
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Astral Pain]
#21950959 - 07/16/15 08:45 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Astral Pain said: I've been hearing the audio from this undercover video of a planned parenthood official the last few days, and it's even worse when I saw the video. Sorry, but it makes me sick to see this and I couldn't keep it bottled up, and the more people who see this and are aware the better imo.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/undercover-video-shows-planned-parenthood-exec-discussing-organ-harvesting/2015/07/14/ae330e34-2a4d-11e5-bd33-395c05608059_story.html
Quote:
An antiabortion group on Tuesday released an undercover video of an official at Planned Parenthood discussing in graphic detail how to abort a fetus to preserve its organs for medical research — as well as the costs associated with sharing that tissue with scientists.
Over lunch at a Los Angeles restaurant, two antiabortion activists posing as employees from a biotech firm met with Deborah Nucatola, Planned Parenthood’s senior director of medical research. Armed with cameras, the activists recorded Nucatola talking about Planned Parenthood’s work donating fetal tissue to researchers and pressed her on whether the clinics were charging for the organs
.
It's downright appalling to see this woman speak so cavalier about the caliper placement on the babies body to spare certain body parts while she stuffs her disgusting face with food. I'm sure most here can't relate as of yet, but for those of us who have sat through an ultrasound and witnessed their unborn child's heartbeat can attest to this being murder. There may be politics behind the legality of the age, but there's a point where it's just sickening.
This should be front page news along with a full investigation, prosecution, and arrest of this woman. Not a peep from the MSM and only time will tell whether anything becomes of this revelation.
There's a video in the article above, but I found it posted in YouTube as well.
Dude, did you even read the article?
-------------------- I'm stupid, Enlil is smart. I'm ugly, Enlil is beautiful. I'm a loser, Enlil is a winner. Someday, I hope to be like Enlil but secretly know I never will.
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JayZ Morgan
Samder's 4 prez'



Registered: 01/27/14
Posts: 1,510
Loc: Alameda Co.
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I'm the baby killer-where's my fix ?
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 2 days, 2 hours
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: JayZ Morgan] 1
#21951071 - 07/16/15 09:20 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I don't see a problem, would the body parts going into the dumpster make people feel better? Women are going to get abortions, it's legal.
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Adden

Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 39,201
Loc:
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: qman]
#21951080 - 07/16/15 09:25 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,852
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Adden]
#21951169 - 07/16/15 09:50 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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here are some reasons for why people are understandably squeamish about the buying and selling of human remains.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_snatching
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatomy_murder
--------------------
Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here
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badchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,372
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: ballsalsa]
#21951204 - 07/16/15 09:58 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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^^ which is why legalizing and regulating is a good idea.
-------------------- ...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did. Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27. ...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely. Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,852
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: badchad]
#21951232 - 07/16/15 10:03 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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even some people who support women's right to have an abortion if she needs one, don't necessarily want to see a financial incentive for private business to encourage abortions
--------------------
Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,057
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 3 minutes, 6 seconds
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: 1234go]
#21951249 - 07/16/15 10:05 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
1234go said: Shut up kinko, put yourself in his shoes.
I'd be put off to say the least if i got calls requesting a recently passed family members body parts.
This happens every time someone dies and they still have viable organs. Sometimes, even before they die. Where do you think they get organ transplants from? You can't sell the organs but somebody get paid for harvesting them
--------------------
NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,057
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 3 minutes, 6 seconds
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: ballsalsa]
#21951254 - 07/16/15 10:08 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
ballsalsa said: even some people who support women's right to have an abortion if she needs one, don't necessarily want to see a financial incentive for private business to encourage abortions
So you think the people who have the medical skills required to remove desired tissues should do the work for free? You are paying for the procedure not the tissue.
--------------------
NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,057
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 3 minutes, 6 seconds
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: koods]
#21951270 - 07/16/15 10:11 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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If you think the value of human tissue is about $30 to $100 you are completely delusional.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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1234go
Ban Lotto Champion


Registered: 07/08/09
Posts: 53,864
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: koods] 1
#21951459 - 07/16/15 10:58 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Dys said: What's the difference in being an organ donor vs. donating an aborted fetus?
You're dead so who cares? If my eyes could help a blind kid see, great. If my aborted child could help research into curing xyz, great.
No one makes it out of here alive.
Quote:
koods said:
This happens every time someone dies and they still have viable organs. Sometimes, even before they die. Where do you think they get organ transplants from? You can't sell the organs but somebody get paid for harvesting them 
Yes guys, I understand all of that and i'm for all of that. The post was in reference to kinko being "sick" towards shroomslip all because he was mourning his grandfather and was sensitive at the time about giving his body away.
I was just suggesting before he "gets sick" over someone, that he tries to understand first.
Quote:
Shroomslip said: I'm not sure where to say I stand on this. Lot of conflicting emotion/thoughts.
I am pro choice, but at the same time this just seems so callous. Then again we have organ donation for the dead, but even that can be callous. My grandfather wasn't an organ donor, and not even hours after he died, we had people calling us up asking if they could have his corneas. He was a person, not a fucking classic car that up and died that you should just swoop in and try to scavenge parts from. The other side of that is that he didn't need them anymore and they could have improved someone's quality of life.
I dunno.. I see both sides of it and it's hard to form an opinion one way or another on it.
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,797
Loc: Ottawa
Last seen: 4 hours, 49 minutes
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: 1234go]
#21951470 - 07/16/15 11:02 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Do you think I could get a new liver? I'm pretty sure I fucked mine up pretty badly...
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,797
Loc: Ottawa
Last seen: 4 hours, 49 minutes
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Patlal]
#21951471 - 07/16/15 11:03 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
1234go said: fetus a la carte
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Malcolm_Xtasy
Oh baby what Is you doin??



Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 13,851
Loc:
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Patlal]
#21951473 - 07/16/15 11:03 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Alcoholics are always the lowest on the priority list
-------------------- I'm stupid, Enlil is smart. I'm ugly, Enlil is beautiful. I'm a loser, Enlil is a winner. Someday, I hope to be like Enlil but secretly know I never will.
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ReposadoXochipilli
Here, there, inbetween



Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 7,501
Loc: Sand and sunshine
Last seen: 19 days, 16 hours
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: 1234go]
#21951476 - 07/16/15 11:03 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Eh I'm all for being an organ donor, have always signed up for it. Logic being I doubt I will care after becoming dead, if that is amiss calculation then I suppose I will deal with that regret.
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Psychonautica
Cuddly Wuddly Fuccboi


Registered: 04/20/15
Posts: 10,854
Loc: Free Soul & IISkuNkII
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Patlal]
#21951482 - 07/16/15 11:05 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Patlal said: Do you think I could get a new liver? I'm pretty sure I fucked mine up pretty badly...
I'll trade mine for drugs
-------------------- The chances of you even being born, Were forty million to one. There's two parts of the statistic And I want you to live through one 3/8/95 - 7/10/15 Rest In Paradise, Brother. Sheekle said: yeah, i said i was afraid of psychonautica

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Patlal
You ask too many questions



Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,797
Loc: Ottawa
Last seen: 4 hours, 49 minutes
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Quote:
Malcolm_Xtasy said: Alcoholics are always the lowest on the priority list 
It sucks cause I'm very far from being this typical 24/7 drunk stumbling everywhere and waking up in dumpsters.
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Malcolm_Xtasy
Oh baby what Is you doin??



Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 13,851
Loc:
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Patlal]
#21951503 - 07/16/15 11:11 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I mean same. Unfortunately we're still alcoholics by definition even if we're functional
-------------------- I'm stupid, Enlil is smart. I'm ugly, Enlil is beautiful. I'm a loser, Enlil is a winner. Someday, I hope to be like Enlil but secretly know I never will.
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OsculateOfDemise



Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 2,879
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Patlal] 1
#21951519 - 07/16/15 11:16 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I think the issue of being pro choice or not is much more of a topic rather than what to do with an aborted fetus. If the choice was already made, what difference does it make if it was thrown away or used for research? What's done is done and refusing to donate is not going to change the outcome of the potential child.
If you are pro choice, but think this is sick, then you obviously have your priorities mixed up...
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,797
Loc: Ottawa
Last seen: 4 hours, 49 minutes
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Quote:
Malcolm_Xtasy said: I mean same. Unfortunately we're still alcoholics by definition even if we're functional
They say its a disease.
Why are they discriminating against our disease?
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Psychonautica
Cuddly Wuddly Fuccboi


Registered: 04/20/15
Posts: 10,854
Loc: Free Soul & IISkuNkII
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Patlal]
#21951569 - 07/16/15 11:32 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I think we should start replacing the balls and pucks used in sports with fetuses instead of this monstrosity of selling them to the highest bidder.
-------------------- The chances of you even being born, Were forty million to one. There's two parts of the statistic And I want you to live through one 3/8/95 - 7/10/15 Rest In Paradise, Brother. Sheekle said: yeah, i said i was afraid of psychonautica

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Shroomslip
Architekt



Registered: 11/25/12
Posts: 23,651
Last seen: 3 hours, 39 minutes
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Kinko] 1
#21952044 - 07/16/15 01:22 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kinko said:
Quote:
Shroomslip said: I'm not sure where to say I stand on this. Lot of conflicting emotion/thoughts.
I am pro choice, but at the same time this just seems so callous. Then again we have organ donation for the dead, but even that can be callous. My grandfather wasn't an organ donor, and not even hours after he died, we had people calling us up asking if they could have his corneas. He was a person, not a fucking classic car that up and died that you should just swoop in and try to scavenge parts from. The other side of that is that he didn't need them anymore and they could have improved someone's quality of life.
I dunno.. I see both sides of it and it's hard to form an opinion one way or another on it.
That made me sick you let your uncles organs rott away instead of saving someones life?? Fucking pride man or is it ego??either way i hope you are never in need of an organ donor.
You don't read very well, do you?
For the record we did let them have them. It wouldn't have even been a big deal if he were an organ donor but he wasn't and just hours after he dies we have people trying to scavenge parts from him.
--------------------
With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way. I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today. Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear. I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear. You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Shroomslip]
#21952109 - 07/16/15 01:38 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shroomslip said: just hours after he dies we have people trying to scavenge parts from him.
I'm sorry you had this sad experience. It's one of the dilemmas of the medical profession, because as you understand, organs tend to go bad quite quickly so doctors are faced with the choice between approaching mourning next of kin and telling someone they won't get their sight back. It's a tough one.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: koraks] 1
#21952402 - 07/16/15 03:10 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/289g-1
Quote:
In research carried out under subsection (a) of this section, human fetal tissue may be used only if the attending physician with respect to obtaining the tissue from the woman involved makes a statement, made in writing and signed by the physician, declaring that— (A) in the case of tissue obtained pursuant to an induced abortion— (i) the consent of the woman for the abortion was obtained prior to requesting or obtaining consent for a donation of the tissue for use in such research; (ii) no alteration of the timing, method, or procedures used to terminate the pregnancy was made solely for the purposes of obtaining the tissue; and (iii) the abortion was performed in accordance with applicable State law;
How many consent forms do you think they have on file?
I don't think they should get one nickel of tax money. Charity and fee for service. Not a single government nickel.
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r00tuuu123
Now I'm just really piseed



Registered: 04/20/12
Posts: 8,507
Loc: I'll be there in a minute
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
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Quote:
Malcolm_Xtasy said: Alcoholics are always the lowest on the priority list 
Unless you're a rock star or a governer.
--------------------
Please report me to a Mod for hurting your punk ass hippie feelings And all time Champion thread killer.
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,852
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: r00tuuu123]
#21954346 - 07/16/15 11:37 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
OsculateOfDemise said: I think the issue of being pro choice or not is much more of a topic rather than what to do with an aborted fetus. If the choice was already made, what difference does it make if it was thrown away or used for research? What's done is done and refusing to donate is not going to change the outcome of the potential child.
If you are pro choice, but think this is sick, then you obviously have your priorities mixed up...
I think you are underestimating the power of capitalism. If we as a society create a market for aborted fetuses, believe me, someone will step in to make that money. Now, i am pro choice, but i don't want to see a world where abortions are actively marketed. (Imagine this, The camera zooms in and focuses on a case of hormone birth control pills. A narrator with a stern male voice lists the possible side effects. camera fades out and back in on the front yard of a suburban house, there is a white picket fence. A pretty teenage girl comes walking up the sidewalk to the house. she is wearing a backpack. as she opens the gate, she turns to the camera, shrugs, and says "i just had an abortion instead" then skips into the house. camera fades out) That just seems grotesque to me. Sure sure, its in the name of medical science etc., but so were freaky nazi medical experiments. sometimes the ends don't justify the means IMO.
--------------------
Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here
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Hippocampus



Registered: 04/01/15
Posts: 753
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: ballsalsa]
#21954393 - 07/16/15 11:52 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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has anyone busted out the dead baby jokes yet?
What's red, bubbling, and scratches at the window?
a baby in a microwave
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1234go
Ban Lotto Champion


Registered: 07/08/09
Posts: 53,864
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Hippocampus]
#21954418 - 07/17/15 12:00 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Adden

Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 39,201
Loc:
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: 1234go]
#21954425 - 07/17/15 12:02 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Everyone posting in this thread knows that the 30 to 100 dollars covers cost of shipping and storing the parts, and that they're being used to research cures for debilitating diseases right?
I can only hope as I browse the responses it's not a lot of .
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1234go
Ban Lotto Champion


Registered: 07/08/09
Posts: 53,864
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: 1234go]
#21954445 - 07/17/15 12:09 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
1234go said: Yes, I understand all of that and i'm for all of that.
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OnePerEyeM8
Rhythmysticist


Registered: 01/19/11
Posts: 1,718
Loc: Westeros
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: 1234go]
#21954507 - 07/17/15 12:37 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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The real issue is that barbecue sauce isn't included.
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Bodhi of Ankou
*alternate opinion blocks path*


Registered: 06/02/09
Posts: 24,778
Loc: Soviet Canukistan
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Shroomslip]
#21954564 - 07/17/15 01:34 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shroomslip said:
Quote:
Kinko said:
Quote:
Shroomslip said: I'm not sure where to say I stand on this. Lot of conflicting emotion/thoughts.
I am pro choice, but at the same time this just seems so callous. Then again we have organ donation for the dead, but even that can be callous. My grandfather wasn't an organ donor, and not even hours after he died, we had people calling us up asking if they could have his corneas. He was a person, not a fucking classic car that up and died that you should just swoop in and try to scavenge parts from. The other side of that is that he didn't need them anymore and they could have improved someone's quality of life.
I dunno.. I see both sides of it and it's hard to form an opinion one way or another on it.
That made me sick you let your uncles organs rott away instead of saving someones life?? Fucking pride man or is it ego??either way i hope you are never in need of an organ donor.
You don't read very well, do you?
For the record we did let them have them. It wouldn't have even been a big deal if he were an organ donor but he wasn't and just hours after he dies we have people trying to scavenge parts from him.
Its usually suppose to happen as they die. Organs are only viable for so long. I find it sort of selfish that you would rather have had his organs waste away so you could hold onto what once was for a few more moments. They couldve brought so many more to countless others.
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ

Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
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unless the organ dealer's got some good connect's, the organ won't be viable.
it's a myth.
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: ballsalsa]
#21954589 - 07/17/15 02:04 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
ballsalsa said: If we as a society create a market for aborted fetuses, believe me, someone will step in to make that money.
It's been said before, but the solution is to regulate this, monitor the practices and hold everyone involved to a strict regulatory framework.
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Soulidarity
With Your Halo Slippin . . .



Registered: 07/15/12
Posts: 17,617
Loc: Atlantis
Last seen: 8 years, 1 month
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Astral Pain]
#21954619 - 07/17/15 02:31 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I've fully seen abortion videos where the kid just gets suctioned out at warp speed Into a bloody receptacle and they're all torn up to pieces with limbs and shit all ripped apart. It doesn't come out as a chunk or one blob or w/e, more like fetal minestrone
--------------------
  R.I.P. WoodRuss67, Todcasil, TheMerryIguana, The Rompus, Lord Senate. [/url]
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Psychonautica
Cuddly Wuddly Fuccboi


Registered: 04/20/15
Posts: 10,854
Loc: Free Soul & IISkuNkII
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Soulidarity] 1
#21954621 - 07/17/15 02:33 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Soulidarity said: I've fully seen abortion videos where the kid just gets suctioned out at warp speed Into a bloody receptacle and they're all torn up to pieces with limbs and shit all ripped apart. It doesn't come out as a chunk or one blob or w/e, more like fetal minestrone
-------------------- The chances of you even being born, Were forty million to one. There's two parts of the statistic And I want you to live through one 3/8/95 - 7/10/15 Rest In Paradise, Brother. Sheekle said: yeah, i said i was afraid of psychonautica

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endogenous
נפל מגיהינום


Registered: 10/07/12
Posts: 2,365
Last seen: 24 days, 18 hours
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Crystal G] 1
#21954714 - 07/17/15 03:19 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Crystal G said:
Quote:
Astral Pain said: They are alive before they go in and rip the parts off. If it was a rotting carcass it would be useless.
Well…. yes….. obviously a fetus is alive before an abortion takes place. The fetus however does not come out alive. It is disassembled and taken apart in the womb, that is how an abortion works.
A fetus is "alive" like a liver is alive. The fetus doesn't know itself as separate from the mother's body, just like the other organs. When a fetus is "aborted", it's just like when any other organ is removed.
-------------------- The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.
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Hippocampus



Registered: 04/01/15
Posts: 753
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: endogenous] 2
#21954800 - 07/17/15 04:21 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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no way dude. When I was a fetus I went to fetus college. My dissertation on birth tactics to avoid the squeeze and force a nice easy C-section was very well received. I was born Summa Cum Laude, valedictorian, and first in my uterus class. I was also star stomach boxer, and a master gymnast with three gold medals on the bladder trampoline.
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Psychonautica
Cuddly Wuddly Fuccboi


Registered: 04/20/15
Posts: 10,854
Loc: Free Soul & IISkuNkII
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Hippocampus]
#21954802 - 07/17/15 04:23 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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-------------------- The chances of you even being born, Were forty million to one. There's two parts of the statistic And I want you to live through one 3/8/95 - 7/10/15 Rest In Paradise, Brother. Sheekle said: yeah, i said i was afraid of psychonautica

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Hippocampus



Registered: 04/01/15
Posts: 753
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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Confucian
...


Registered: 03/31/09
Posts: 1,741
Loc: USA
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: zappaisgod]
#21955128 - 07/17/15 08:20 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/289g-1
Quote:
In research carried out under subsection (a) of this section, human fetal tissue may be used only if the attending physician with respect to obtaining the tissue from the woman involved makes a statement, made in writing and signed by the physician, declaring that— (A) in the case of tissue obtained pursuant to an induced abortion— (i) the consent of the woman for the abortion was obtained prior to requesting or obtaining consent for a donation of the tissue for use in such research; (ii) no alteration of the timing, method, or procedures used to terminate the pregnancy was made solely for the purposes of obtaining the tissue; and (iii) the abortion was performed in accordance with applicable State law;
How many consent forms do you think they have on file?
I don't think they should get one nickel of tax money. Charity and fee for service. Not a single government nickel.
In other words you want them to shut down, cause that is what would happen.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Confucian] 1
#21955149 - 07/17/15 08:25 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Confucian said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/289g-1
Quote:
In research carried out under subsection (a) of this section, human fetal tissue may be used only if the attending physician with respect to obtaining the tissue from the woman involved makes a statement, made in writing and signed by the physician, declaring that— (A) in the case of tissue obtained pursuant to an induced abortion— (i) the consent of the woman for the abortion was obtained prior to requesting or obtaining consent for a donation of the tissue for use in such research; (ii) no alteration of the timing, method, or procedures used to terminate the pregnancy was made solely for the purposes of obtaining the tissue; and (iii) the abortion was performed in accordance with applicable State law;
How many consent forms do you think they have on file?
I don't think they should get one nickel of tax money. Charity and fee for service. Not a single government nickel.
In other words you want them to shut down, cause that is what would happen.
Why would you say that? They get charity donations and they charge for their services. The company they sell the parts to charges a shitload more than that to the research facilities they service so maybe they should just cut out the middleman and make real money on market value. Also, I want to see the consent forms. Because that is the law.
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Amanita86
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Crystal G] 1
#21955205 - 07/17/15 08:47 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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People who support abortion are fucked n the head. In a perfect world, an abortion would consist of a bullet to the parents head and some form of life support for the fetus.. "over population" solved
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Orange clock, pencil "They threw me off the hay truck about noon..."
*Mark 15:34  Gam zeh ya’avor...
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Amanita86
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Amanita86] 1
#21955220 - 07/17/15 08:52 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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And to the dumbfucks comparing harvesting aborted organs vs. organ donors..
Do you really believe that stupid fucking bullshit logic? Are you that fucking dumb? "Well yeah the fetus starts off alive but by the end it's dead".... Really? I'm surprised you can tie your own shoes..
How about get your fucking in check.. selfish bitches.
Alright fuck it you got me started...why stop now. I hate to name drop in my rant but, go check out ChickGrow's new baby... go take a look, I'll wait...
You can't inconvienience your life for a few months so that kid can have a life? You can't wait and then go through an adoption process if you really dont want a kid? You just fucking kill it....that's it, just kill it... so you can get back to fuckin'
You dumb heartless mother fuckers need to grow a soul..
You know what they say, pro abortion folks are a bunch of one way, onesided assholes, because they all survived birth... bunch of easy road taking bitches... fuck'em all
/end rant that'll conviently go in one ear and out the other..
I'm sure I'll win a few friends with this post.. had to be said.
Edited by Amanita86 (07/17/15 09:03 AM)
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Adden

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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Amanita86]
#21955535 - 07/17/15 10:40 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I want to ignore you but I can't help myself. It's like when there's a horrible car wreck or pileup and you don't want to see the people burned alive, but you can't avert your eyes.
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Mr.GuessWork
Stranger

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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Amanita86]
#21955598 - 07/17/15 10:53 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Amanita86 said: And to the dumbfucks comparing harvesting aborted organs vs. organ donors..
Do you really believe that stupid fucking bullshit logic? Are you that fucking dumb? "Well yeah the fetus starts off alive but by the end it's dead".... Really? I'm surprised you can tie your own shoes..
How about get your fucking in check.. selfish bitches.
Alright fuck it you got me started...why stop now. I hate to name drop in my rant but, go check out ChickGrow's new baby... go take a look, I'll wait...
You can't inconvienience your life for a few months so that kid can have a life? You can't wait and then go through an adoption process if you really dont want a kid? You just fucking kill it....that's it, just kill it... so you can get back to fuckin'
You dumb heartless mother fuckers need to grow a soul..
You know what they say, pro abortion folks are a bunch of one way, onesided assholes, because they all survived birth... bunch of easy road taking bitches... fuck'em all
/end rant that'll conviently go in one ear and out the other..
I'm sure I'll win a few friends with this post.. had to be said.
That's the standard thoughtless dribble that antiabortion people spew out when they can't handle the emotional impact of killing a fetus. If you really stopped to think about what you posted, you'd realize that it's judgmental horseshit that doesn't help anybody. People die in the world all the time. Kids die, and unwanted fetuses die too. Get over it. You probably don't realize it, but what you posted was a selfish indulgence in your own hangups. If more people indulged like you did, then we'd all suffer more, and that includes the kids.
Doing research with those fetus parts may very well improve or save the lives of children that actually get to be born into homes where they have competent supportive parents. It's arguably even more meaningful than organ donor transplants. A transplant only saves one life. Learning more about how we work from studying our early development has the potential to do a lot more good than that. The women who let their babies be studied are far from selfish. They're actually helping to make the world a better place to live, and that deserves to be rewarded with gratitude and respect, not a hissyfit.
I still like you though.
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Amanita86
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Horseshit..
So if I put a bullet through your face, we could divvy up your parts and end up saving more lives than if we kept you intact, taking up space on this earth... that's your logic?
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Orange clock, pencil "They threw me off the hay truck about noon..."
*Mark 15:34  Gam zeh ya’avor...
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Amanita86
OTD Keymaster


Registered: 09/26/12
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You know, when I go back and reread that, it almost sounds as if I was pissed when I wrote that..
I still like you too man.
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Orange clock, pencil "They threw me off the hay truck about noon..."
*Mark 15:34  Gam zeh ya’avor...
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Amanita86] 1
#21955781 - 07/17/15 11:45 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Amanita86 said: Horseshit..
So if I put a bullet through your face, we could divvy up your parts and end up saving more lives than if we kept you intact, taking up space on this earth... that's your logic?
Seems like a profitable busiess
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Mr.GuessWork
Stranger

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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Amanita86]
#21956050 - 07/17/15 01:00 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Amanita86 said: Horseshit..
So if I put a bullet through your face, we could divvy up your parts and end up saving more lives than if we kept you intact, taking up space on this earth... that's your logic?
Sort of. If you look at the options, you've got a dead baby that could be used and a dead baby that goes to waste. I'm not pushing for more abortions or anything, but the fact that babies body parts are used for research shouldn't dissuade people from making decisions that they think are good. This should be thought of as a benefit rather than a reason not to do abortions.
The whole argument against abortion seems to be purely emotional (I've never heard a clear objective reason stated for why it's bad). Those heavy emotional topics are some of the most dangerous ones to resolve because they tend not to be resolved by reason. It hard to show which side is right on on the abortion argument, but when I look around the world for suffering and fucked up lives, I see a lot of dysfunctional teenage moms and neglected kids where I live. Those kids would have had better lives if they had come into existence later in the mom's life. The girls who get abortions tend to graduate high school and lots of them go to college or have kids later in life when they're more capable parents. Maybe killing those kids before they were born stopped some good from happening, but it damn sure stopped some suffering from happening, and it's dangerous to lose sight of that.
Quote:
Amanita86 said: You know, when I go back and reread that, it almost sounds as if I was pissed when I wrote that..
I still like you too man.
It's emotional stuff. People get angry and ideally they figure out how to not feel bad and make good decisions at the same time. As long as we're not starting silly long-term feuds, then we're cool. I'll gladly entertain a scenario where I get shot in the face if it's productive. It's kind of fun somehow.
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Amanita86
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Quote:
Mr.GuessWork said: The whole argument against abortion seems to be purely emotional (I've never heard a clear objective reason stated for why it's bad). Those heavy emotional topics are some of the most dangerous ones to resolve because they tend not to be resolved by reason. It hard to show which side is right on on the abortion argument
You shouldn't need a 'clear objective reason', you should be able too look and immediately tell..
As for your second argument with the parents, that's a flaw of our society.. Correct the flaw, don't kill the kid.. like I said selfish convenience. I'm guessing you don't hang around kids much..? I don't know, maybe you run a daycare, it really doesn't matter. There's no justification for killing a kid that young. You don't need a reason spelled out, you should inherently know.. or so it would seem to me.
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Orange clock, pencil "They threw me off the hay truck about noon..."
*Mark 15:34  Gam zeh ya’avor...
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Magicman69
All About the Benjamins



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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Amanita86] 1
#21956243 - 07/17/15 01:44 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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A 17 week old baby is formed and can respond to changes in its environment. It's not just some clump of cells. I personally think the cutoff should be 8 weeks for abortion. At a certain point your not aborting a fetus anymore, your murdering a tiny vulnerable person.
Edited by Magicman69 (07/17/15 01:50 PM)
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badchad
Mad Scientist

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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Amanita86]
#21956305 - 07/17/15 01:58 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Amanita86 said: Horseshit..
So if I put a bullet through your face, we could divvy up your parts and end up saving more lives than if we kept you intact, taking up space on this earth... that's your logic?
Actually, yes. This is the most basic premise of science. You do a controlled experiment, and apply the results to the population at large.
-------------------- ...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did. Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27. ...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely. Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
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Mr.GuessWork
Stranger

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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Amanita86]
#21956321 - 07/17/15 02:02 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Amanita86 said:
Quote:
Mr.GuessWork said: The whole argument against abortion seems to be purely emotional (I've never heard a clear objective reason stated for why it's bad). Those heavy emotional topics are some of the most dangerous ones to resolve because they tend not to be resolved by reason. It hard to show which side is right on on the abortion argument
You shouldn't need a 'clear objective reason', you should be able too look and immediately tell..
As for your second argument with the parents, that's a flaw of our society.. Correct the flaw, don't kill the kid.. like I said selfish convenience. I'm guessing you don't hang around kids much..? I don't know, maybe you run a daycare, it really doesn't matter. There's no justification for killing a kid that young. You don't need a reason spelled out, you should inherently know.. or so it would seem to me.
The trouble with that argument is that it artificially forces people into bad situations they can't handle just because they make stupid decisions. It's exactly these kind of scenarios that need a "clear objective reason' because without one people get absorbed in the arguing and stop paying attention to what the real consequences of the decisions are. Correcting the flaw in society isn't going to happen, and it especially isn't going to happen when we force idiots to have kids. We need a solution that will make the problem better, and it needs to be practical enough to work.
I've been around plenty of kids and pregnant people for various reasons. I've also dissected animal fetuses and have been around pregnant animals and baby animals, and I can tell you that fetuses are not the same as babies. It's important not to get confused by vague pictures and stuff like that. You could easily cry your eyes out when you look at a pig fetus because it looks almost exactly like a human fetus for the earlier part of its development (certainly up until the legal deadline for abortions). A lot of this sentimentality has been inflated by political bullshit. Did you know that about 50% of pregnancies self abort? The main reason behind that is because the genetics would produce a bad offspring (I think that's right. It's close if not.). The kind of abortions that are done at the doctor's office are done for similar reasons. They are done because the kid will have a bad environment to develop in, and a kid's environment is at least as important as its genetics. Artificial abortions are kind of like a step up from having to rely on miscarriages. They give us and our offspring a new advantage.
Life is sacred, but so is death. We tend to forget that in the first world. We're at a point with our species now where overproducing our young is detrimental to us as a whole. We're still getting bigger and we're creating more problems than we're solving. We don't need more people in the world, and we'd probably benefit from having a few less people that need to be helped. We don't need any more kids that are going to become fucked up adults. We need kids that will turn into adults that will fix our stupid fuckups. It might seem brutal to decide which kids live and which die, but if we don't start taking responsibility for those decisions, the world will decide for us, and it's a hell of a lot more brutal than we are because it really just doesn't care about our feelings or well being.
Abortions are for the kids as much as they are for the parents, man.
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qman
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Maybe transsexuals could buy the penis or vagina they always wanted through this "body parts for sale".
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ThatKidWithTheFace
R.I.P. ZIG R.I.P. Sloth


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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: qman]
#21956340 - 07/17/15 02:05 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Such a sick fucking world we live in.
-------------------- Check Out My Beats SoundCloud
[quote]Sheekle said: [quote]ThatKidWithTheFace said: Is this the same aunt that fucks dogs?[/quote] u bet ur ass it is.[/quote]
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Amanita86
OTD Keymaster


Registered: 09/26/12
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I hear you man, but I'm not swaying on this one. I guess you aren't either, so there it is.. I'm sticking by what I've said.
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Orange clock, pencil "They threw me off the hay truck about noon..."
*Mark 15:34  Gam zeh ya’avor...
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ThatKidWithTheFace
R.I.P. ZIG R.I.P. Sloth


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Quote:
Mr.GuessWork said: The kind of abortions that are done at the doctor's office are done for similar reasons. They are done because the kid will have a bad environment to develop in, and a kid's environment is at least as important as its genetics.
I'm pretty sure that's not the usual reason for abortions.
It's usually because the woman is a lazy whore.
-------------------- Check Out My Beats SoundCloud
[quote]Sheekle said: [quote]ThatKidWithTheFace said: Is this the same aunt that fucks dogs?[/quote] u bet ur ass it is.[/quote]
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Shroomism
Space Travellin



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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Astral Pain]
#21956370 - 07/17/15 02:11 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Are people really upset about them taking organs and tissue from fucking aborted fetuses for scientific research?
Yeah you guys are right.. they are much better off in the dumpster.
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Mr.GuessWork
Stranger

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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Amanita86]
#21956377 - 07/17/15 02:12 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Amanita86 said: I hear you man, but I'm not swaying on this one. I guess you aren't either, so there it is.. I'm sticking by what I've said.
I'll remain open to counter arguments and appeals. I hope you will too.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Shroomism]
#21956381 - 07/17/15 02:13 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I don't think they put them in the dumpster and I already posted the relevant law regarding parental consent and procedure.
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Mr.GuessWork
Stranger

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Quote:
ThatKidWithTheFace said:
Quote:
Mr.GuessWork said: The kind of abortions that are done at the doctor's office are done for similar reasons. They are done because the kid will have a bad environment to develop in, and a kid's environment is at least as important as its genetics.
I'm pretty sure that's not the usual reason for abortions.
It's usually because the woman is a lazy whore.
I euphemized it a bit, but the point holds. Lazy whores make bad parents and they're doing the world, the kid, and themselves a service by opting out when the chance arises. It's always nice when selfishness works out in everyone's best interest.
EDIT: Fucking spellcheck.
Edited by Mr.GuessWork (07/17/15 02:18 PM)
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Amanita86
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Shroomism] 2
#21956426 - 07/17/15 02:23 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shroomism said: Are people really upset about them taking organs and tissue from fucking aborted fetuses for scientific research?
Yeah you guys are right.. they are much better off in the dumpster.
As far as I'm concerned, it's more the abortion I have a problem with. It really doesn't much matter what happens with the remains once killed..
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Orange clock, pencil "They threw me off the hay truck about noon..."
*Mark 15:34  Gam zeh ya’avor...
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Adden

Registered: 06/04/03
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Loc:
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Amanita86]
#21957301 - 07/17/15 06:08 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Amanita86 said: You know, when I go back and reread that, it almost sounds as if I was pissed when I wrote that..
I still like you too man.

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Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 19,584
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: zappaisgod]
#21957517 - 07/17/15 07:09 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
I don't think they should get one nickel of tax money. Charity and fee for service. Not a single government nickel.
0 cents of taxpayer money go towards abortion. What taxpayer money goes to is things such as STD testing or other preventative healthcare services. None of it goes towards abortions. Hence why patients have to pay like $500 out-of-pocket or whatever the industry standard cost is for an abortion nowadays.
Personally I think abortions should be provided free and reimbursed by taxes, that way we would have a lot less unwanted children, less crime, less poverty, less people on welfare, etc.
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Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Magicman69]
#21957529 - 07/17/15 07:12 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Magicman69 said: A 17 week old baby is formed and can respond to changes in its environment. It's not just some clump of cells. I personally think the cutoff should be 8 weeks for abortion. At a certain point your not aborting a fetus anymore, your murdering a tiny vulnerable person.
8 weeks? Way too early. A lot of women don't even realize they are pregnant until the 6-8 week mark. That would simply make it almost impossible for many women to acquire very needed abortions.
Plus, the cerebral cortex isn't even intact at 8 weeks. The fetus isn't even cognizant or conscious.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Crystal G]
#21957541 - 07/17/15 07:14 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Crystal G said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
I don't think they should get one nickel of tax money. Charity and fee for service. Not a single government nickel.
0 cents of taxpayer money go towards abortion. What taxpayer money goes to is things such as STD testing or other preventative healthcare services. None of it goes towards abortions. Hence why patients have to pay like $500 out-of-pocket or whatever the industry standard cost is for an abortion nowadays.
Personally I think abortions should be provided free and reimbursed by taxes, that way we would have a lot less unwanted children, less crime, etc.
Dollars are fungible. If you want to fund them go ahead. Kill all the fetuses you want. I note that it isn't your fucking money you are spending.
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makaveli8x8
Stranger

Registered: 02/28/06
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Crystal G]
#21957554 - 07/17/15 07:19 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Crystal G said:
Quote:
Magicman69 said: A 17 week old baby is formed and can respond to changes in its environment. It's not just some clump of cells. I personally think the cutoff should be 8 weeks for abortion. At a certain point your not aborting a fetus anymore, your murdering a tiny vulnerable person.
8 weeks? Way too early. A lot of women don't even realize they are pregnant until the 6-8 week mark. That would simply make it almost impossible for many women to acquire very needed abortions.
Plus, the cerebral cortex isn't even intact at 8 weeks. The fetus isn't even cognizant or conscious.
thats complete bullshit, in the tv show vikings ragnar lothbrok had sex with princess aslaug and she knew the next day that she was pregnaunt, and she also knew it would be a boy with a serpent in his eye and now your trying to tell me it takes 8 weeks
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  We were sent to hell for eternity Ø h® We play on earth to pass the time Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.
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Amanita86
OTD Keymaster


Registered: 09/26/12
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Crystal G]
#21957596 - 07/17/15 07:31 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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And that's why your point of view doesnt matter and has no need to be taken into consideration. Fuck if Im paying for your worthless "wild" life.. why not go back where 'ya came from'.. huh? It couldnt be because your people made your life suck so your daddy jumped continents and dropped an anchor, anything to get away from his people, and now you are comfortable repeating the same mistakes infecting this continent with the same garbage your parents were running from, crying about why your own fucking parents cant stand you...
Nothing like that right?....
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Orange clock, pencil "They threw me off the hay truck about noon..."
*Mark 15:34  Gam zeh ya’avor...
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Amanita86
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Registered: 09/26/12
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Crystal G] 1
#21957643 - 07/17/15 07:42 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yeah feel free to speak up when you're ready because I have a brake job that needs you paying for it because I'm too goddamn dumb to plan ahead so its up to you... save me..
Oh and dont forget Ill stand here and tell you to your fucking face how brakes can be neglected all day long... ha ha..
Nobody needs brakes...ha ha..
Your logic is shit.
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Orange clock, pencil "They threw me off the hay truck about noon..."
*Mark 15:34  Gam zeh ya’avor...
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Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Amanita86]
#21957673 - 07/17/15 07:48 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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^^Are you posting under the influence again? Seems like it, cause you're not making any sense again.
Please explain to me how you're paying for my life. You're not. I owe you nothing except maybe a broken jaw.
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Amanita86
OTD Keymaster


Registered: 09/26/12
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Crystal G]
#21957677 - 07/17/15 07:49 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'm making perfect sense.
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Orange clock, pencil "They threw me off the hay truck about noon..."
*Mark 15:34  Gam zeh ya’avor...
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Crystal G]
#21957690 - 07/17/15 07:53 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Crystal G said: ^^Are you posting under the influence again? Seems like it, cause you're not making any sense again.
Please explain to me how you're paying for my life. You're not. I owe you nothing except maybe a broken jaw.
Darling, do you have a job and are you paying taxes? Because if you don't and aren't everybody who is is paying for you. Will you please get your shit together. You could do so much.
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makaveli8x8
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Crystal G]
#21957696 - 07/17/15 07:55 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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curious question, if these parts sales starts to become a big thing and people really do start getting paid to donate fetus's by having abortions ect ect, how would u feel if the fetus's father got half the money?
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  We were sent to hell for eternity Ø h® We play on earth to pass the time Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.
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Amanita86
OTD Keymaster


Registered: 09/26/12
Posts: 89,464
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Crystal G]
#21957703 - 07/17/15 07:56 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Ohh, I missed that ninja edit with the broken jaw...
Id like to see you try. Ive never fought a midget before but I'm sure the same rules apply..
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Orange clock, pencil "They threw me off the hay truck about noon..."
*Mark 15:34  Gam zeh ya’avor...
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Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: zappaisgod]
#21957710 - 07/17/15 07:57 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Crystal G said: ^^Are you posting under the influence again? Seems like it, cause you're not making any sense again.
Please explain to me how you're paying for my life. You're not. I owe you nothing except maybe a broken jaw.
Darling, do you have a job and are you paying taxes? Because if you don't and aren't everybody who is is paying for you. Will you please get your shit together. You could do so much.
I called you and told you about my new job, I am paying taxes.
Also, even IF somebody is unemployed, the only time everybody else is paying for them is if they are on government benefits, such as EBT. Which I have never been.
The only taxpayer financial assistance I have ever received was college tuition grants back when I was going to school. I have never been on food stamps, social security, disability, or whatever.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: makaveli8x8]
#21957717 - 07/17/15 07:58 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
makaveli8x8 said: curious question, if these parts sales starts to become a big thing and people really do start getting paid to donate fetus's by having abortions ect ect, how would u feel if the fetus's father got half the money?
Oh you are so evil. How about legalizing people selling their organs? Slopes and slipperiness. Good time, good times.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Crystal G]
#21957733 - 07/17/15 08:01 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Crystal G said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Crystal G said: ^^Are you posting under the influence again? Seems like it, cause you're not making any sense again.
Please explain to me how you're paying for my life. You're not. I owe you nothing except maybe a broken jaw.
Darling, do you have a job and are you paying taxes? Because if you don't and aren't everybody who is is paying for you. Will you please get your shit together. You could do so much.
I called you and told you about my new job, I am paying taxes.
Also, even IF somebody is unemployed, the only time everybody else is paying for them is if they are on government benefits, such as EBT. Which I have never been.
The only taxpayer financial assistance I have ever received was college tuition grants back when I was going to school. I have never been on food stamps, social security, disability, or whatever.
Unless you are in the top quintile of taxpayers you are being subsidized.
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Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 19,584
Loc: outer space
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: makaveli8x8]
#21957737 - 07/17/15 08:01 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
makaveli8x8 said: curious question, if these parts sales starts to become a big thing and people really do start getting paid to donate fetus's by having abortions ect ect, how would u feel if the fetus's father got half the money?
Wouldn't make any sense to do that. First of all, how would the man even prove that he is the real father of the baby?
Second of all, it wouldn't be fair. I say this because single or unmarried women who are pregnant receive 100% of the medical bills in their name. So, let's say single woman gets pregnant by boyfriend, they break up, and she has a miscarriage that costs her $4,000 or whatever in the hospital. She cannot even legally sue the man, or come after the real father for half the cost of the pregnancy. Because unless you have a paternity test done while pregnant, or unless you have him sign papers agreeing to pay for half the cost of the pregnancy, you cannot prove that he is the real father.
The only justifiable reason I could see the father getting half is if the couple is married legally and getting an abortion.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Crystal G]
#21957743 - 07/17/15 08:03 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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The proceeds aren't enough to justify the expense of a paternity test
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makaveli8x8
Stranger

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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Crystal G]
#21957768 - 07/17/15 08:09 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Crystal G said:
Quote:
makaveli8x8 said: curious question, if these parts sales starts to become a big thing and people really do start getting paid to donate fetus's by having abortions ect ect, how would u feel if the fetus's father got half the money?
Wouldn't make any sense to do that. First of all, how would the man even prove that he is the real father of the baby?
Second of all, it wouldn't be fair. I say this because single or unmarried women who are pregnant receive 100% of the medical bills in their name. So, let's say single woman gets pregnant by boyfriend, they break up, and she has a miscarriage that costs her $4,000 or whatever in the hospital. She cannot even legally sue the man, or come after the real father for half the cost of the pregnancy. Because unless you have a paternity test done while pregnant, or unless you have him sign papers agreeing to pay for half the cost of the pregnancy, you cannot prove that he is the real father.
The only justifiable reason I could see the father getting half is if the couple is married legally and getting an abortion.
so do you feel the same way about women who don't have an abortion while single, then force a man to get a paternity test, and them force him to pay child support? and by feel the same way, im refering to the man not being accountable for all of that
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  We were sent to hell for eternity Ø h® We play on earth to pass the time Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.
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Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: makaveli8x8]
#21957781 - 07/17/15 08:11 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
makaveli8x8 said: so do you feel the same way about women who don't have an abortion while single, then force a man to get a paternity test, and them force him to pay child support? and by feel the same way, im refering to the man not being accountable for all of that
Uhhhh no. Child support is for the CHILD. If the father doesn't pay anything, then that kid is either going to go hungry, or the rest of the taxpayers will be paying for that kid. Parents should be responsible for their own kids once they are born. Period.
Besides, in many cases, the amount of child support one pays is nowhere near enough to sustain a child. According to the NY Times, the average amount of child support paid per month by the average man (or woman) is around $327 a month. I've seen 17 year old kids pay as little as $70 a month of child support, simply because their income was too low. That's not even enough to buy a month's supply of diapers.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Crystal G]
#21957808 - 07/17/15 08:16 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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The child support I paid was pretty much exactly the cost of raising a child from the year she was born. The total cost. We looked it up because her mother was being a cunt, as usual, and telling my daughter I didn't give her enough money. She had a decent income herself she was just greedy.
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Amanita86
OTD Keymaster


Registered: 09/26/12
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: zappaisgod] 1
#21957814 - 07/17/15 08:18 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Imagine that..
..I'm still holding out for the day a woman says the money is too much, bring the figures down a little... let's be reasonable here.. I'm still waiting.
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Orange clock, pencil "They threw me off the hay truck about noon..."
*Mark 15:34  Gam zeh ya’avor...
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Amanita86]
#21957999 - 07/17/15 08:49 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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She tried to get me to keep paying after the girl was 21 even though she was going to college totally free and hardly living at home at all. Then she couldn't even figure what county to demand I appear in. Then she got the fucking e-mail. I would have loved to have been in the lawyer's office when she tried to sell that shit as a viable case. She dropped it.
By the way, I still give my daughter money. I just don't pay it to the cunt so she can embezzle it
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ

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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: zappaisgod]
#21958036 - 07/17/15 08:57 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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LOL
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: akira_akuma]
#21958124 - 07/17/15 09:12 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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You should have seen the e-mail. It was devastating.
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ

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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: zappaisgod]
#21958137 - 07/17/15 09:14 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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the independent woman thing got a little like thin ice over a freezing lake, i'm sure.
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Psychonautica
Cuddly Wuddly Fuccboi


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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Crystal G] 4
#21958147 - 07/17/15 09:16 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Crystal G said: Child support is for the CHILD.
Bullshit. Bullshit bullshit bullshit.
That doesn't stop women from taking out a brand spankin' new lease on a 2015 model car with the child support money and feeding the kid kraft macaroni and hotdogs for their entire life.
I've seen that shit happen LOADS of times.
-------------------- The chances of you even being born, Were forty million to one. There's two parts of the statistic And I want you to live through one 3/8/95 - 7/10/15 Rest In Paradise, Brother. Sheekle said: yeah, i said i was afraid of psychonautica

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Amanita86
OTD Keymaster


Registered: 09/26/12
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But the transportation is for the child psychonautica, you have too see this..
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Orange clock, pencil "They threw me off the hay truck about noon..."
*Mark 15:34  Gam zeh ya’avor...
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Astral Pain
Strange

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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Magicman69]
#21959166 - 07/18/15 03:02 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Confucian said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/289g-1
Quote:
In research carried out under subsection (a) of this section, human fetal tissue may be used only if the attending physician with respect to obtaining the tissue from the woman involved makes a statement, made in writing and signed by the physician, declaring that— (A) in the case of tissue obtained pursuant to an induced abortion— (i) the consent of the woman for the abortion was obtained prior to requesting or obtaining consent for a donation of the tissue for use in such research; (ii) no alteration of the timing, method, or procedures used to terminate the pregnancy was made solely for the purposes of obtaining the tissue; and (iii) the abortion was performed in accordance with applicable State law;
How many consent forms do you think they have on file?
I don't think they should get one nickel of tax money. Charity and fee for service. Not a single government nickel.
In other words you want them to shut down, cause that is what would happen.
Why would you say that? They get charity donations and they charge for their services. The company they sell the parts to charges a shitload more than that to the research facilities they service so maybe they should just cut out the middleman and make real money on market value. Also, I want to see the consent forms. Because that is the law.
Now way they would shut down. Warren Buffett alone has donated more than $1.2 billion to abortion organizations from 2001 to 2012, and in 2013 alone, Buffett donated $99,809,148 to abortion groups including $62 million to Planned Parenthood. http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/05/13/warren-buffet-donates-12-billion-to-abortion-groups.html
http://www.lifenews.com/2015/07/15/warren-buffett-gives-100-million-to-pro-abortion-groups-in-a-single-year/
Quote:
Magicman69 said: A 17 week old baby is formed and can respond to changes in its environment. It's not just some clump of cells. I personally think the cutoff should be 8 weeks for abortion. At a certain point your not aborting a fetus anymore, your murdering a tiny vulnerable person.
The cutoff varies from state to state(max 28 weeks), and there's a point where it isn't just an irrelevant mass of cells. It's evident that the older the fetus, the more profitable it is. I'm sure this new video has made potential abortion customers aware that there are profits involved, and see it more as a money making opportunity that would convince them to extend the length of time they carry. After hearing the lady in the video, I wouldn't put it past the clinics for orchestrating the timing for more profitable abortions.
I heard an interesting clip from Ben Carson that touched on the research aspect and made some other good points.
There's profit to be made for research that has nothing to do with helping human lives.
http://www.wnd.com/2015/07/abortion-body-parts-not-just-for-medical-research/ I know there are people out there more concerned about protecting some fish to the extent of preventing the construction of dams and reservoirs that would save human life from the droughts, but some of these people may have no problem aborting a 28 week baby. I don't really see this as a black and white pro-choice/pro abortion type of issue, but more a point of where to draw the line when you can see profits being a deciding factor of where it's drawn. It makes it worse when profits become the main motivator.
-------------------- "I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out" -Bill Hicks-
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endogenous
נפל מגיהינום


Registered: 10/07/12
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Amanita86]
#21959186 - 07/18/15 03:19 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Amanita86 said: You shouldn't need a 'clear objective reason', you should be able too look and immediately tell..
As for your second argument with the parents, that's a flaw of our society.. Correct the flaw, don't kill the kid.. like I said selfish convenience. I'm guessing you don't hang around kids much..? I don't know, maybe you run a daycare, it really doesn't matter. There's no justification for killing a kid that young. You don't need a reason spelled out, you should inherently know.. or so it would seem to me.
It's not killing a child. It's removing an organ of the mother's body. Would you object to removing a kidney? or a gall bladder?
This is no different.
If a kidney dies after being removed from the body, it doesn't know it. Neither does the fetus. It doesn't know itself apart from the organs of its mother's body.
-------------------- The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,852
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: endogenous] 2
#21959193 - 07/18/15 03:23 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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just for clarity, if a fetus is an organ, why does it have different DNA than all of the mother's other organs?
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endogenous
נפל מגיהינום


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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: ballsalsa]
#21959198 - 07/18/15 03:28 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
ballsalsa said: just for clarity, if a fetus is an organ, why does it have different DNA than all of the mother's other organs?
If a person has an organ transplant, they have an organ with even greater DNA differences than that of a fetus and mother.
-------------------- The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.
Edited by endogenous (07/18/15 03:29 AM)
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: endogenous]
#21959202 - 07/18/15 03:30 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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i suppose the same would be true of a fetus transplant, but we aren't talking about transplanted organs or fetuses.
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Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here
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Hippocampus



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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: ballsalsa]
#21959204 - 07/18/15 03:33 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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yeah it's more of a parasite
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Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: ballsalsa]
#21959205 - 07/18/15 03:34 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
ballsalsa said: just for clarity, if a fetus is an organ, why does it have different DNA than all of the mother's other organs?
Because technically, a fetus is a parasite. It is a parasitic organism that is feeding off its host, and if the host wishes to extract this organism from their body, they have a perfectly legitimate reason for wanting to do so.
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Crystal G]
#21959208 - 07/18/15 03:37 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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so its not an organ at all then?
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endogenous
נפל מגיהינום


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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: endogenous]
#21959211 - 07/18/15 03:38 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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The point is that the fetus doesn't know itself apart from the other organs in the mother's body.
If you take a person from Russia and bring them to the US - it usually will take a long time before they start feeling like they're separate from Russia.
-------------------- The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.
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Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: ballsalsa]
#21959216 - 07/18/15 03:42 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
ballsalsa said: so its not an organ at all then?
No. Who the fuck said it was an organ? It's an orgaNISM, not an organ. It HAS organs, depending on the various stages of the trimester.
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,852
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: endogenous]
#21959220 - 07/18/15 03:49 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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so a fetus is a parasite, with elaborate life support mechanisms built by the mother and it can't distinguish itself from a liver or a section of small intestine?
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Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,852
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: endogenous]
#21959221 - 07/18/15 03:51 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Crystal G said:
Quote:
ballsalsa said: so its not an organ at all then?
No. Who the fuck said it was an organ? It's an orgaNISM, not an organ. It HAS organs, depending on the various stages of the trimester.
*points finger* He said it!
Quote:
endogenous said:
Quote:
Amanita86 said: You shouldn't need a 'clear objective reason', you should be able too look and immediately tell..
As for your second argument with the parents, that's a flaw of our society.. Correct the flaw, don't kill the kid.. like I said selfish convenience. I'm guessing you don't hang around kids much..? I don't know, maybe you run a daycare, it really doesn't matter. There's no justification for killing a kid that young. You don't need a reason spelled out, you should inherently know.. or so it would seem to me.
It's not killing a child. It's removing an organ of the mother's body. Would you object to removing a kidney? or a gall bladder?
This is no different.
If a kidney dies after being removed from the body, it doesn't know it. Neither does the fetus. It doesn't know itself apart from the organs of its mother's body.
--------------------
Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here
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ChinChiller



Registered: 07/03/10
Posts: 3,270
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Astral Pain]
#21959238 - 07/18/15 04:22 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Where is the order form? Instead of it going to medical research I would like to use it to spread on my toast also stocking stuffers!
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makaveli8x8
Stranger

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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: endogenous]
#21959240 - 07/18/15 04:23 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
endogenous said: The point is that the fetus doesn't know itself apart from the other organs in the mother's body.
If you take a person from Russia and bring them to the US - it usually will take a long time before they start feeling like they're separate from Russia.
you actually don't know that for a fact. All you know is that you don't have memories of knowing what it was like to be a fetus.
For all we know, 8+ weeks in, you have 1 neuron in just the right place that lets you experience what its like to be a fetus, but with zero memory retention, or memory for 1 second, whatever it may be.
Fact is, we don't know, which is why its a debate, the only ones pretending its fact, is the baby killers so they don't feel guilty for doing it, if they even feel guilt at all.
--------------------
  We were sent to hell for eternity Ø h® We play on earth to pass the time Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.
Edited by makaveli8x8 (07/18/15 04:29 AM)
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ChinChiller



Registered: 07/03/10
Posts: 3,270
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: makaveli8x8]
#21959253 - 07/18/15 04:31 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I was reading about this in the WSJ this morning and medical research on fetuses has been common practice for a long time. Its any profits made of off the fetuses that could potentially cause some problems for PP, however isnt the money just making abortions more available.
Im all for it, abortions are good..in fact great for the planet (which cant sustain all these kids) as a whole and for women who dont want the kids (cant sustain kids).
Its a win win, also we get the added benefit of medical research ON TOP OF SAVING THE PLANET!
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ChinChiller



Registered: 07/03/10
Posts: 3,270
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: ChinChiller]
#21959268 - 07/18/15 04:38 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Planned Parenthood, saving the planet one packaged and sold fetus at a time!
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Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 19,584
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: ChinChiller]
#21959366 - 07/18/15 05:46 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Errolscool said: Where is the order form? Instead of it going to medical research I would like to use it to spread on my toast also stocking stuffers!
Fetus grais, that would be interesting. Not enough fat though (I'm assuming). Perhaps it should be pickled and eaten like balut. I prefer sashimi style.
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Amanita86
OTD Keymaster


Registered: 09/26/12
Posts: 89,464
Loc: hades
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Crystal G] 1
#21959984 - 07/18/15 10:50 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
endogenous said:
Quote:
Amanita86 said: You shouldn't need a 'clear objective reason', you should be able too look and immediately tell..
As for your second argument with the parents, that's a flaw of our society.. Correct the flaw, don't kill the kid.. like I said selfish convenience. I'm guessing you don't hang around kids much..? I don't know, maybe you run a daycare, it really doesn't matter. There's no justification for killing a kid that young. You don't need a reason spelled out, you should inherently know.. or so it would seem to me.
It's not killing a child. It's removing an organ of the mother's body. Would you object to removing a kidney? or a gall bladder?
This is no different.
If a kidney dies after being removed from the body, it doesn't know it. Neither does the fetus. It doesn't know itself apart from the organs of its mother's body.
That right there ranks up with the dumbest shit I've ever heard in my life. That's just incredible you actually believe that, or you're a troll.
Quote:
Crystal G said:
Quote:
ballsalsa said: just for clarity, if a fetus is an organ, why does it have different DNA than all of the mother's other organs?
Because technically, a fetus is a parasite. It is a parasitic organism that is feeding off its host, and if the host wishes to extract this organism from their body, they have a perfectly legitimate reason for wanting to do so.
, that's like saying a tomato, or an ear of corn, or a flower is a parasite to it's own plant.
This is not a tick, it's a different category all together. By your logic every seed that has ever been produced is a parasite.. parasites dont give a fuck about the survival of the host organism. It's the propogation of a species...
No wonder you people can murder infants without losing sleep, even recommed it... you see babies as parasites
Well let me ask you this. In the mind of every aborted fetus that ever was and will be... what does that make you?
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Beanhead
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Astral Pain]
#21960041 - 07/18/15 11:05 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Fuck yeah.
WHERE ARE THE BABYFARMS!?
Quote:
Astral Pain said: How far along? What the lady is describing in the video appears to be partial birth. She would give you $30 to $100 for specific parts from what I heard.
That's pretty sick.
I thought organs were way more lucrative
Edited by Beanhead (07/18/15 11:10 AM)
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Mr.GuessWork
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Amanita86]
#21960091 - 07/18/15 11:17 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Amanita86 said:
...
Well let me ask you this. In the mind of every aborted fetus that ever was and will be... what does that make you?
You're personifying the fetus too much, man. It doesn't have a functional mind. It can respond to some stimuli, but it sure as hell isn't forming abstract ideas. It's still developing nervous tissue that let's it do stuff like breathe. It's WAY less functional than a new born baby, and they can't do a whole lot. How do you feel about taking brain dead people off of life support? An abortion is much closer to that, in terms of ending a thing with a personality, than it is to killing a kid.
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Amanita86
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A brain dead person doesn't have much life ahead of them, a fetus does..
You're robbing an entire life, as opposed to ending one that has reached it's end naturally.
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Orange clock, pencil "They threw me off the hay truck about noon..."
*Mark 15:34  Gam zeh ya’avor...
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zappaisgod
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Beanhead]
#21960131 - 07/18/15 11:29 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Beanhead said: Fuck yeah.
WHERE ARE THE BABYFARMS!?
Quote:
Astral Pain said: How far along? What the lady is describing in the video appears to be partial birth. She would give you $30 to $100 for specific parts from what I heard.
That's pretty sick.
I thought organs were way more lucrative 
They are.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/07/17/why-planned-parenthood-wont-stop-donating-fetal-organs/
Quote:
One of those companies, Placerville, Calif.-based StemExpress, is mentioned in the anti-abortion video and calls itself in its marketing "the largest variety of raw materials available in the industry."
The company receives tissue directly from donors in addition to Planned Parenthood, a representative said, and extracts cells to purify them for researchers. The StemExpress catalog features a vial of two million "fresh" cells from a fetal liver for $1,932, and $1,840 for the same amount "cryopreserved," or frozen.
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Mr.GuessWork
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Amanita86]
#21960143 - 07/18/15 11:33 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Amanita86 said: A brain dead person doesn't have much life ahead of them, a fetus does..
You're robbing an entire life, as opposed to ending one that has reached it's end.
Why is the fetus entitled to a life in the first place? It really is closer to an organ than it is to a person while it's in the womb, especially up to the abortion dead line. Why do you feel a lady should be obligated to turn a sac of tissues into a person if she doesn't want to? You might as well argue that we're all obligated to have children just because we've got sperm or eggs. Is a sperm or egg a person? You should have a solid reason if you want to draw that line for other people and define what life is for them, because killing a chicken and frying an egg are two different things to most people.
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Amanita86
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Again your logic is flawed... eggs by themself dont make a baby, sperm by itself, doesnt make a baby.. so there is no need to feel like you have to mix the two..
That's like saying why dont we mix all gas and fire, just because they're there.
Any why dont you kill a fetus you ask? Because you don't kill babies.. period. Have some respect and atleast some form of responsibility for yourself.. there's people fucking dieing here.. enjoy your breakfast.
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Orange clock, pencil "They threw me off the hay truck about noon..."
*Mark 15:34  Gam zeh ya’avor...
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Amanita86
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And for the record, those eggs you're frying, are unfertilized..
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Orange clock, pencil "They threw me off the hay truck about noon..."
*Mark 15:34  Gam zeh ya’avor...
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pirate-blues


Registered: 10/15/12
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Quote:
Mr.GuessWork said:
Quote:
Amanita86 said: A brain dead person doesn't have much life ahead of them, a fetus does..
You're robbing an entire life, as opposed to ending one that has reached it's end.
Why is the fetus entitled to a life in the first place? It really is closer to an organ than it is to a person while it's in the womb, especially up to the abortion dead line. Why do you feel a lady should be obligated to turn a sac of tissues into a person if she doesn't want to? You might as well argue that we're all obligated to have children just because we've got sperm or eggs. Is a sperm or egg a person? You should have a solid reason if you want to draw that line for other people and define what life is for them, because killing a chicken and frying an egg are two different things to most people.
An interesting thing about women's bodies is that, miscarriage in early pregnancy if FAR more common than people realize - even the women themselves. Our own bodies self-abort more frequently than we know. Self-abortion(and abortion at will) is actually something that happens to several species of animals, other species can delay the pregnancy. It's something that is essential for their species - and you could argue that aborting a fetus that has very little chance of being born into a family that's ready, mature, or capable of raising a child in a safe home environment benefit our society. Some even argue that legalization of abortion has been a factor(one of many) in the decline of violent crime in the US.
I know armadillos can induce abortions, but here's an interesting article about self-termination among primates(particularly gelada monkeys)
http://io9.com/5886670/gelada-monkeys-offer-evidence-that-abortion-is-part-of-evolutionary-fitness
http://women.texaschildrens.org/Health-Topics/Pregnancy-Center/Early-Miscarriage/ ^ source for frequency of undetected miscarriages in early stages of pregnances, arguably another evolutionary mechanism.
Edited by pirate-blues (07/18/15 11:46 AM)
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Amanita86
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It's one thing if your body rejects it.. it's another thing when a doctor sucks that fucker out even though your body was "all systems go" and fully planned to deliver a healthy living baby.
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Orange clock, pencil "They threw me off the hay truck about noon..."
*Mark 15:34  Gam zeh ya’avor...
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zappaisgod
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Why are you entitled to a life? Did you know that the human brain does not become fully mature until the mid twenties? That is why I support abortion into at least the 75th trimester.
Roe was based on a faulty application of the Constitution but I thought it was a brilliant piece of legislation. I also saw the looming problem in the reasoning. Much of the argument supporting the 26 week limit was predicated on fetal viability at the time. Well guess what. Technology has improved and it is now possible to save babies born at 20 weeks. What does that do to the law?
Unless it is for some some medical issue that surfaces late, and those are permitted up to the end, why doesn't the fucking moron just get it done right away? You have 3 months no questions asked. Just fucking do it if your gonna do it and no a fucking fetus is not an unfeeling cluster of cells or an organ at 20 weeks. That's fucking stupid. It reacts to stimuli and can feel pain.. Your liver does not feel pain because it doesn't have a brain. You feel pain. Your organs don't. They cause pain.
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Mr.GuessWork
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Amanita86]
#21960212 - 07/18/15 11:50 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Amanita86 said: Again your logic is flawed... eggs by themself dont make a baby, sperm by itself, doesnt make a baby.. so there is no need to feel like you have to mix the two..
That's like saying why dont we mix all gas and fire, just because they're there.
Any why dont you kill a fetus you ask? Because you don't kill babies.. period. Have some respect and atleast some form of responsibility for yourself.. there's people fucking dieing here.. enjoy your breakfast.
First, eggs that chickens lay will produce offspring if the chickens are allowed to run around with roosters like cage free chickens do. When you take an egg away from a chicken, you're taking away an embryo that would have grown into a chicken if the momma chicken felt like brooding. That analogy was solid. By eating breakfast, you are effectively performing a chicken abortion.
The fetus by itself doesn't make a baby either. It requires the continued cooperation of the mother for 9 months. Without that cooperation from the mother there is no baby, so no babies are killed in an abortion. fetus does not equal baby in any sense just because it might become a baby later. You're confusing the present with the future.
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zappaisgod
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At what point does it become a baby and not just a lumpen fetus parasite? Blackmun hinged his decision on viability. Well the technology now can save a 20 week old fetus and turn it into a baby.
None of the eggs that you eat are fertilized. They cannot be fertilized by roosters after they are laid.
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pirate-blues


Registered: 10/15/12
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: zappaisgod]
#21960242 - 07/18/15 11:57 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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The question of when the human fetus develops the capacity for sentience is central to many contentious issues. The answer could and should influence attitudes toward IVF and embryo experimentation, abortion, and fetal and neonatal surgery. For the fetus to be described as sentient, the somatosensory pathways from the periphery to the primary somatosensory region of the cerebral cortex must be established and functional. Fetal behaviour is described and the development of the underlying anatomical substrate and the chemical and electrical pathways involved in the detection, transmission, and perception of somatosensory stimuli are reviewed.
It is concluded that the basic neuronal substrate required to transmit somatosensory information develops by mid-gestation (18 to 25 weeks), however, the functional capacity of the neural circuitry is limited by the immaturity of the system. Thus, 18 to 25 weeks is considered the earliest stage at which the lower boundary of sentience could be placed. At this stage of development, however, there is little evidence for the central processing of somatosensory information. Before 30 weeks gestational age, EEG activity is extremely limited and somatosensory evoked potentials are immature, lacking components which correlate with information processing within the cerebral cortex. Thus, 30 weeks is considered a more plausible stage of fetal development at which the lower boundary for sentience could be placed.
Keywords
Read More: http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.3109/14767059209161911p
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Amanita86
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You can take that science talk on out of here.. that fetus is a baby in the making... but for the fact the doctor blew that process, you have a baby human ... living..
Aka, the doctor killed a living human.
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Orange clock, pencil "They threw me off the hay truck about noon..."
*Mark 15:34  Gam zeh ya’avor...
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zappaisgod
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I didn't say sentience. They react to stimuli and feel pain. They have tiny little brains
http://www.readcube.com/articles/10.1111%2Fj.1748-720X.2011.00592.x?r3_referer=wol&tracking_action=preview_click&show_checkout=1&purchase_referrer=onlinelibrary.wiley.com&purchase_site_license=LICENSE_DENIED_NO_CUSTOMER
Quote:
(1) At least by twenty weeks after fertilization there is substantial evidence that an unborn child has the physical structures necessary to experience pain; (2) There is substantial evi-dence that, by twenty weeks after fertilization, unborn children seek to evade certain stimuli in a manner in which in an infant or an adult would be interpreted as a response to pain; (3) Anesthesia is routinely administered to unborn children who have developed twenty weeks or more past fertilization who undergo prenatal surgery; (4) Even before twenty weeks after fer-tilization, unborn children have been observed to exhibit hormonal stress responses to painful stimuli. Such responses were reduced when pain medication was administered directly to such unborn children;
http://www.rhm-elsevier.com/article/S0968-8080(08)31370-6/abstract
Quote:
Neurobiological features that develop at 7, 18 and 26 weeks gestation suggest an experience of pain in utero.
Both of these papers are written from an abortion supporter's perspective but they have to acknowledge things
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Mr.GuessWork
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: zappaisgod]
#21960294 - 07/18/15 12:09 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: Why are you entitled to a life? Did you know that the human brain does not become fully mature until the mid twenties? That is why I support abortion into at least the 75th trimester.
Roe was based on a faulty application of the Constitution but I thought it was a brilliant piece of legislation. I also saw the looming problem in the reasoning. Much of the argument supporting the 26 week limit was predicated on fetal viability at the time. Well guess what. Technology has improved and it is now possible to save babies born at 20 weeks. What does that do to the law?
Unless it is for some some medical issue that surfaces late, and those are permitted up to the end, why doesn't the fucking moron just get it done right away? You have 3 months no questions asked. Just fucking do it if your gonna do it and no a fucking fetus is not an unfeeling cluster of cells or an organ at 20 weeks. That's fucking stupid. It reacts to stimuli and can feel pain.. Your liver does not feel pain because it doesn't have a brain. You feel pain. Your organs don't. They cause pain.
The fetus brain is still developing big time at 20 weeks. A plant can react to pain (slightly sloppy use of language, but it's similar enough), and a pig has a way more developed reaction to pain than a 20 week old fetus has, but it's still okay to make it bacon because it's not a person. Reacting to pain is not the same thing as being a person. Nobody said it wasn't alive, just that it's not a person. It's more complex than an organ, but it's not a small person or a tiny baby either.
Personally, I'd draw the line for abortions at whenever the baby can live independently of the mother with a reasonably good outlook. And nothing in this world will stop people from being stupid except death, so any reasoning that depends on people not being idiots is useless and unrealistic. We sure as hell don't need laws that force stupid people to reproduce.
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Amanita86
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Pigs aren't humans..different set of rules.
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Orange clock, pencil "They threw me off the hay truck about noon..."
*Mark 15:34  Gam zeh ya’avor...
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Mr.GuessWork
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: zappaisgod]
#21960323 - 07/18/15 12:16 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: At what point does it become a baby and not just a lumpen fetus parasite? Blackmun hinged his decision on viability. Well the technology now can save a 20 week old fetus and turn it into a baby.
None of the eggs that you eat are fertilized. They cannot be fertilized by roosters after they are laid.
I would hinge it on viability and sentience, something like what pirate blues was talking about. I would say that sentience is needed, but viability has to be there to ensure that the baby can survive without the mother. I think that's a fair way to determine whether or not it's a "person" that's being killed.
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Mr.GuessWork
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Amanita86]
#21960332 - 07/18/15 12:18 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Amanita86 said: Pigs aren't humans..different set of rules.
The point was that feeling pain alone is not sufficient to be considered a person. People do more stuff than that.
Edited by Mr.GuessWork (07/18/15 12:19 PM)
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pirate-blues


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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: zappaisgod]
#21960345 - 07/18/15 12:22 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: I didn't say sentience. They react to stimuli and feel pain. They have tiny little brains
http://www.readcube.com/articles/10.1111%2Fj.1748-720X.2011.00592.x?r3_referer=wol&tracking_action=preview_click&show_checkout=1&purchase_referrer=onlinelibrary.wiley.com&purchase_site_license=LICENSE_DENIED_NO_CUSTOMER
Quote:
(1) At least by twenty weeks after fertilization there is substantial evidence that an unborn child has the physical structures necessary to experience pain; (2) There is substantial evi-dence that, by twenty weeks after fertilization, unborn children seek to evade certain stimuli in a manner in which in an infant or an adult would be interpreted as a response to pain; (3) Anesthesia is routinely administered to unborn children who have developed twenty weeks or more past fertilization who undergo prenatal surgery; (4) Even before twenty weeks after fer-tilization, unborn children have been observed to exhibit hormonal stress responses to painful stimuli. Such responses were reduced when pain medication was administered directly to such unborn children;
http://www.rhm-elsevier.com/article/S0968-8080(08)31370-6/abstract
Quote:
Neurobiological features that develop at 7, 18 and 26 weeks gestation suggest an experience of pain in utero.
Both of these papers are written from an abortion supporter's perspective but they have to acknowledge things
Out of curiousity, have they proven that reacting to stimuli=pain? Do they react different to painful stimuli compared to other forms? Is hormonal stress absolutely indicative of that, being and involuntary physiological reaction? I'm just wondering, I can't disprove that and I'd imagine we don't have much more to go off of than that.
On the other hand bacteria and any kind of microorganism reacts to stimuli. Our bodies internally react to stimuli pretty much constantly, even stressful stimuli that is not always apparent to said person can cause a physiological response.
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Amanita86
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Quote:
Mr.GuessWork said:
Quote:
Amanita86 said: Pigs aren't humans..different set of rules.
The point was that feeling pain alone is not sufficient to be considered a person. People do more stuff than that.
It should be sufficent enough to not voluntarily inflict pain upon it..
The only reason you're spewing this shit is because it's not you who is the victim here.
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Orange clock, pencil "They threw me off the hay truck about noon..."
*Mark 15:34  Gam zeh ya’avor...
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Beanhead
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Amanita86]
#21960389 - 07/18/15 12:31 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Amanita86 said: You can take that science talk on out of here.. that fetus is a baby in the making... but for the fact the doctor blew that process, you have a baby human ... living..
Aka, the doctor killed a living human.
yeah wouldn't that be easy.
Edited by Beanhead (07/18/15 12:32 PM)
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Salomon
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Astral Pain]
#21960395 - 07/18/15 12:32 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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if i was in the genetic research business, i'd buy a grip of baby tissue, theres alot of good material use for good human samples.
-------------------- EVERYTHING EVENTUALLY BECOMES A DESERT
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pirate-blues


Registered: 10/15/12
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Amanita86]
#21960411 - 07/18/15 12:36 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Amanita, I respect your right to have your own opinion on something you obviously feel strongly about. I get that no one involved in this thread is going to successfully convince anyone to do a 180 about abortion, which is why threads like these make me laugh because they never really lead anywhere conclusive - but I think it's important to hear differing view points.
That being said, I'm still genuinely wondering if these responses are the actual result of pain, or a simple response to stimuli, in the same sense a simpler organism(crustaceans are one that come to mind that are macroorganisms. They will react to threats and they will react to another animal attacking them, but there is a lot of evidence that they're not developed enough to actually feel pain. The brain is incredibly complex and takes a long time to develop, if the right part shuts down or is simply not developed, despite someone being alive(for the sake of an example, someone brain dead or who's brain is shutting down from something like bacterial meningitis) then they really are not considered human anymore, they're brain is reduced to the same primal functions seen in simpler organisms.
I am curious, is your stance religious, or ethical? Do you believe life begins at conception, or in the existence of souls. I myself, don't believe in life at conception - but I do believe that we return to the earth in some way - perhaps not even as one "entity" but recycled with other matter that's returned to the universe(I'm also open to the idea that life ends with the brain), I do not consider a fetus in early term pregnancy to be human, even if I strongly believed in some kind of variation of a soul. I just feel that sentience comes later, and because something is alive does not necessarily share similarities with what we normally think - but more along the lines of cells, internal organs, etc.
I'm just curious about your opinion.
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Mr.GuessWork
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Amanita86] 1
#21960420 - 07/18/15 12:37 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Amanita86 said:
Quote:
Mr.GuessWork said:
Quote:
Amanita86 said: Pigs aren't humans..different set of rules.
The point was that feeling pain alone is not sufficient to be considered a person. People do more stuff than that.
It should be sufficent enough to not voluntarily inflict pain upon it..
The only reason you're spewing this shit is because it's not you who is the victim here.
I am not a fetus, and a fetus is not a victim. Again, Why do you consider it to be a person? Am I a rock-star astronaut just because I could be one? No, I'm not.
It's not sadism, man. Nobody enjoys making living things feel pain (mostly nobody). We cause pain in other animals and humans for lots of very good reasons. In this particular case we're causing pain and harm to a developing cluster of tissues because we don't want it to become a person. That's as good a reason as any, especially if the alternative is to force an idiot to assume responsibility for that person. Again, why do you think it's necessary to force people to undergo 9 months of pain and suffering (and a lifetime on top of that) just to avoid a few seconds or minutes of "pain" for a fetus? Why is the fetus more important than the parents?
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zappaisgod
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Quote:
Mr.GuessWork said:
Personally, I'd draw the line for abortions at whenever the baby can live independently of the mother with a reasonably good outlook. And nothing in this world will stop people from being stupid except death, so any reasoning that depends on people not being idiots is useless and unrealistic. We sure as hell don't need laws that force stupid people to reproduce.
Currently it is possible for 20 week old fetuses to survive outside of the womb. Hence my point about Blackmun's reasoning which was calculated on 26 week viability. It was inevitable that the technology would improve. And when technology advances to the point that the fetus can survive in an incubator from fertilization? What happens to the law then?
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Mr.GuessWork
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Quote:
pirate-blues said:
...
That being said, I'm still genuinely wondering if these responses are the actual result of pain, or a simple response to stimuli, in the same sense a simpler organism(crustaceans are one that come to mind that are macroorganisms. They will react to threats and they will react to another animal attacking them, but there is a lot of evidence that they're not developed enough to actually feel pain. The brain is incredibly complex and takes a long time to develop, if the right part shuts down or is simply not developed, despite someone being alive(for the sake of an example, someone brain dead or who's brain is shutting down from something like bacterial meningitis) then they really are not considered human anymore, they're brain is reduced to the same primal functions seen in simpler organisms.
...
I think one of the links you posted mentioned a bit about it. It's not pain in the sense that we perceive it. Depending on the stage of development, the input from pain probably gets managed in different ways since the whole brain is developing pretty aggressively. I don't think the brain is stable enough during fetal development to do anything as complex as form memories, and our response to pain is pretty damn complex, so I strongly doubt that the pain response does anything that's very functional for the baby. The brain has to be alive to develop, and functionality slowly gets put in place while everything is developing.
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zappaisgod
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I don't have any memories from before 4. I don't think many people do. Does that mean they are expendable. Like I said earlier, your brain does not really fully form until you are in your twenties.
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pirate-blues


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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: zappaisgod]
#21960475 - 07/18/15 12:50 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yup. Can confirm, am 23, have been way stupider than I thought I ever was due to lack of brain development, am only less stupid enough to know that I'm still stupid and my brain won't be done for another two years.
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Mr.GuessWork
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: zappaisgod]
#21960486 - 07/18/15 12:53 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Mr.GuessWork said:
Personally, I'd draw the line for abortions at whenever the baby can live independently of the mother with a reasonably good outlook. And nothing in this world will stop people from being stupid except death, so any reasoning that depends on people not being idiots is useless and unrealistic. We sure as hell don't need laws that force stupid people to reproduce.
Currently it is possible for 20 week old fetuses to survive outside of the womb. Hence my point about Blackmun's reasoning which was calculated on 26 week viability. It was inevitable that the technology would improve. And when technology advances to the point that the fetus can survive in an incubator from fertilization? What happens to the law then?
That's why I'd add in that bit about sentience, which probably develops around 30 weeks (source is the link pirate blue posted). It keeps the limit kind of high, it probably cuts down on medical costs, and it helps draw the line on what should be classified as people in a clear way that can be supported with some evidence at least
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Amanita86
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My stance is both. In my world I can't justify the ending of life for convenience. It just doesn't work that way. In my world we suggest that a person be responsible for their actions. We don't murder people for convenience, the thought of that is ...it's beyond words.
We take life pretty seriously where I come from, on all levels whether it's plants, animals or people etc..
Where I come from, when someone becomes pregnant, usually the celebrations commence. It's a big fucking deal..
So whether it's moral, religious, or spiritual.. it's probably a mixture of all in my case. But it's blatant respect for others when you get down to the nitty gritty of it..
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Orange clock, pencil "They threw me off the hay truck about noon..."
*Mark 15:34  Gam zeh ya’avor...
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Mr.GuessWork
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Registered: 03/30/13
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Quote:
pirate-blues said: Yup. Can confirm, am 23, have been way stupider than I thought I ever was due to lack of brain development, am only less stupid enough to know that I'm still stupid and my brain won't be done for another two years.
Haha, full development of the frontal lobes happens earlier in girls, so you're all there.
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pirate-blues said:
Quote:
Mr.GuessWork said:
Quote:
Amanita86 said: A brain dead person doesn't have much life ahead of them, a fetus does..
You're robbing an entire life, as opposed to ending one that has reached it's end.
Why is the fetus entitled to a life in the first place? It really is closer to an organ than it is to a person while it's in the womb, especially up to the abortion dead line. Why do you feel a lady should be obligated to turn a sac of tissues into a person if she doesn't want to? You might as well argue that we're all obligated to have children just because we've got sperm or eggs. Is a sperm or egg a person? You should have a solid reason if you want to draw that line for other people and define what life is for them, because killing a chicken and frying an egg are two different things to most people.
An interesting thing about women's bodies is that, miscarriage in early pregnancy if FAR more common than people realize - even the women themselves. Our own bodies self-abort more frequently than we know. Self-abortion(and abortion at will) is actually something that happens to several species of animals, other species can delay the pregnancy. It's something that is essential for their species - and you could argue that aborting a fetus that has very little chance of being born into a family that's ready, mature, or capable of raising a child in a safe home environment benefit our society. Some even argue that legalization of abortion has been a factor(one of many) in the decline of violent crime in the US.
I know armadillos can induce abortions, but here's an interesting article about self-termination among primates(particularly gelada monkeys)
http://io9.com/5886670/gelada-monkeys-offer-evidence-that-abortion-is-part-of-evolutionary-fitness
http://women.texaschildrens.org/Health-Topics/Pregnancy-Center/Early-Miscarriage/ ^ source for frequency of undetected miscarriages in early stages of pregnances, arguably another evolutionary mechanism.
Ya, I made this point a few pages earlier too. Miscarriage is usually the result of messed up genes in the fertilized egg (meiosis is kinda error prone), so miscarriages are a way of getting rid of bad genetics so we don't waste resources on bad offspring. It's gives us an advantage against the nature side of nature and nurture. Abortions at the doctors office give us an advantage against the nurture side of nature and nurture. You could probably argue that doctor's abortions are even more advantageous because miscarriage offspring that would otherwise be born would die shortly after birth, while the genetically viable kids that are raised in dysfunctional families are likely to end up as welfare bums and jailbirds, and that's a lifetime of wasted resources.
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Amanita86
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Registered: 09/26/12
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You know how many respect worthy people came from a shit upbringing? You generalizations are bunk..
..and I'll add, you know how many truly horrible people came from a background of never having want?
Judge not less ye be..
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Orange clock, pencil "They threw me off the hay truck about noon..."
*Mark 15:34  Gam zeh ya’avor...
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pirate-blues


Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 13,656
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Amanita86]
#21960585 - 07/18/15 01:16 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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And many more end up slipping through the cracks, failed by the system, victims of violent crime, or perpetrators of violent crime. And a lot of horrible people have come from backgrounds where they were not wanted.
Serial killers, for instance, when given cat scans(maybe mris, idk, but brain scans none the less) all share patterns in the "wiring" of their brain. These individuals are very much capable of living a healthy life and not becoming violent or homicidal provided that the environment is good(the neuroscientist leading this study himself had the same patterns in his scans, but came from a healthy environment). I'm not saying that there aren't serial killers that were wanted and loved, because there are - but the overwhelming majority came from extremely abusive homes. That's been proven time and time again.
Kids who are raised in poverty stricken areas, particularly areas in large cities that have been left to decay for decades after the loss of industry, are extremely vulnerable to the influences of that neighborhood. There are brilliant people that come out of there against all odds, but many end up getting sucked into the culture of violence that surrounds them - especially if their parents are not trying to set good examples and goals and encouraging them to get out.
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Mr.GuessWork
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Amanita86]
#21960590 - 07/18/15 01:17 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Amanita86 said: My stance is both. In my world I can't justify the ending of life for convenience. It just doesn't work that way. In my world we suggest that a person be responsible for their actions. We don't murder people for convenience, the thought of that is ...it's beyond words.
We take life pretty seriously where I come from, on all levels whether it's plants, animals or people etc..
Where I come from, when someone becomes pregnant, usually the celebrations commence. It's a big fucking deal..
So whether it's moral, religious, or spiritual.. it's probably a mixture of all in my case. But it's blatant fucking respect for others when you get down to the nitty gritty of it..
That's cool as long as everybody is happy with it and it's all voluntary. It's only really bad, IMO, when that view gets forced on people who don't want it. I kind of feel like you want to do that a bit, and that you're judging the people who choose the more convenient route as if they're being immoral. Your view is the traditional one, and it's been held pretty much world wide until recently.
Quote:
Amanita86 said: You know how many respect worthy people came from a shit upbringing? You generalizations are bunk..
..and I'll add, you know how many truly horrible people came from a background of never having want?
Judge not less ye be..
I didn't say it was fate, and I didn't say it was impossible for people with shit upbringings to do well, but a shit upbringing is a clear disadvantage for a child, and that is a well supported fact, and it's common knowledge. People who are brought up in dysfuntional families have problems that could have been avoided if they had better circumstances. And if you look at it on a meaningfully sized scale, socioeconomic factors like poverty and lack of education have a huge impact on people's well-being. Abortions let people choose to have kids when they feel prepared to give the kid an adequate or optimal upbringing. That is a blessing, and I'm glad my parents gave a fuck about how they'd raise me. If more people did that, then we'd have a lot less problems.
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Mr.GuessWork
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We should just start combining our posts, pirate blues. It's entertaining to see that this argument has been done enough times that we can arrive at the same points at the same times. I feel like we're fleshing out the points nicely.
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Amanita86
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We arent talking about them.. we're talking about a fetus who hasn't made it out of a uterus yet..
You want to talk about bad deeds deserving death? None of us would be here. You're judging a fetus on what you suspect it to do and you're using negative suggestions in order to justify your killing it..
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Orange clock, pencil "They threw me off the hay truck about noon..."
*Mark 15:34  Gam zeh ya’avor...
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Amanita86
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Btw I like how you justify habitually killing fetuses in order to cut down on the serial killer population.. that's pretty rich.
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Orange clock, pencil "They threw me off the hay truck about noon..."
*Mark 15:34  Gam zeh ya’avor...
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pirate-blues


Registered: 10/15/12
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Amanita86]
#21960684 - 07/18/15 01:42 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Agreed always nice to run into someone who's way of thinking clicks with your own.Quote:
Amanita86 said: We arent talking about them.. we're talking about a fetus who hasn't made it out of a uterus yet..
You want to talk about bad deeds deserving death? None of us would be here. You're judging a fucking fetus on what you suspect it to do and you're using negative suggestions in order to justify your killing it..
I haven't killed anything, if I got pregnant, yeah, I would very seriously consider and probably pursue an abortion, because objective facts tell me that the tissue growing in my stomach is not a baby yet. It's a bundle of nerves and cells that is the framework of a human being, and I'm sorry but science and healthcare are fields where people devote their entire careers to studies that undergo enormous scrutiny before any conclusion is drawn, studies that involve hundred upon hundreds of people, and studies that are built upon those studies that solidify it. I view death as going back to the place before you were born where awareness of your existence is nil, and in the early stages of pregnancy your brain is simply not yet a brain yet - it's the framework for one, it's not capable of producing thoughts, feelings, or doing much more than any other cell in terms of reaction to stimuli. "Pain response" is not necessarily the same sort of pain response that sentient creatures(and not even all sentient creatures.) I do think that it is morally wrong to perform abortions after the fetus has developed into an actual baby, unless the mother is at risk of dying. A lot of mental illness runs in my family, I'm bipolar, and I have relatives who are schizophrenic. I am incredibly hesitant to pass on my genes in the future(at least that's how I feel now). I don't want to burden a child with a life long ailment that drastically effects quality of life. Additionally, I'm on medication that absolutely should not be taken while pregnant. If I got pregnant, I would be incredibly worried about the harm that would come to the baby because of that medication and the effects it could have on the fetus from the get go and in the long run.
And no. I'm not talking about bad deed. I'm talking about children who are born into horrible circumstances through no fault of their own. In an ideal world, people would take responsibility or put it up for adoption, but that's not how the world works. Millions of unwanted children end up either in broken homes whether it's their biological family's or wherever the system has placed them. If you can't see the association between abuse, crime(whether victimized, or perpetrated) mental illness and poorly equipped parents I can't help but assume you live in an area and see things that are very different from the situation going on in wide swaths of not only the US but everywhere else.
Let's not forget that regardless of legality, there will always be people who will find a way, and abortion with subsist, where there is no regulation or cut off date, and where late stage abortions the baby has actually developed enough to feel and percieve pain in the same sense as us.Quote:
Amanita86 said: Btw I like how you justify habitually killing fetuses in order to cut down on the serial killer population.. that's pretty rich.
jesus fucking christ, I've tried to be respectful towards you, but either you are intentionally twisting my words with failed logic, or you simply cannot deduce anything that I've actually said and it's clear that you're not mature enough to have a civil discussion. It's a shame, because when someone tries to reach out and understand opposing view points, you do nothing but convince them to keep their own with that attitude.
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Amanita86
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You're the one that said it..
You know what you have changed me, perhaps the murder of your bloodlines is a good thing. The problem taking care of it's self. Just pretend I was never here, and carry on as you were.. Infact, step up the pace if you can, let's reach that goal sooner than later..
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Orange clock, pencil "They threw me off the hay truck about noon..."
*Mark 15:34  Gam zeh ya’avor...
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Mr.GuessWork
Stranger

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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Amanita86]
#21960730 - 07/18/15 01:53 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Amanita86 said: My stance is both. In my world I can't justify the ending of life for convenience. It just doesn't work that way. In my world we suggest that a person be responsible for their actions. We don't murder people for convenience, the thought of that is ...it's beyond words.
We take life pretty seriously where I come from, on all levels whether it's plants, animals or people etc..
Where I come from, when someone becomes pregnant, usually the celebrations commence. It's a big fucking deal..
So whether it's moral, religious, or spiritual.. it's probably a mixture of all in my case. But it's blatant respect for others when you get down to the nitty gritty of it..
I want to give you some perspective on this, because it works for you, but it doesn't work for everybody.
My highschool class had about 100 people in it. 3 or 4 of the girls in my class got pregnant and had the babies. It was a big deal for them too. They had poor families with strong religious beleifs, and at least a couple of them broke out in tears and/or tried to hide the pregnancy from their parents when they found out about their pregnancies. They dropped out of school, had their babies, and lived at home with stressed out parents and no good future in sight. Last I heard, one of them was going to community college after being a heroine addict for several years, and the grandparents pretty much take care of the kids. Another girl, currently still a pill popper, is working at a gas station part time, and I avoid contact with her because I've seen the police at her parent's place too many times. The rest of the girls I haven't heard about in a while, but they were fucking up too the last time I heard. As far as I can tell, only the kids of the first girl I mentioned had any luck, and that's because they had good people like their grandparents around to help (basically take over for her is what I mean). None of them actually did anything good for themselves or the kids by taking responsibility for their actions like you suggest. The one that did best by her kids shirked most of her responsibilities to her parents.
Now, having those babies wasn't the sole cause of these girl's problems, and they'd probably have fucked up anyway, but the babies made all of their other problems more difficult to manage, and definitely contributed to fucking up their lives and their kids lives. Several girls had abortions or miscarriages in my class too, and they're doing better. Most of them had decent jobs or educations after school, and one or two of them were happily married last I heard.
You're point of view can be responsible for suffering as well as joy, depending on the circumstances. Make sure you don't get absorbed in ethnocentrism.
@pirate-blues - Go easy on Amanita. He's emotionally involved, but he's not trying to twist anybody's words deliberately. It's part of what makes emotional topics difficult to discuss. People make connections that aren't presented and they lose track of the structure of the argument, and forget about solidly reasoned points. He just feels a little threatened and he's reacting to that feeling by being defensive. If we can respectfully and satisfactory address his emotional concerns (which I'm not discounting), then he'll be more reasonable.
EDIT: Someday I'm going to stop fixing typos.
Edited by Mr.GuessWork (07/18/15 01:54 PM)
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Amanita86
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So all abortions are high school girls that come from poor families now?
...hey, atleast they aren't murderers.
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Orange clock, pencil "They threw me off the hay truck about noon..."
*Mark 15:34  Gam zeh ya’avor...
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Salomon
ಠ︵ಠ balance ಠ_ಠ weaver ಠ‿ಠ

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Loc: America, FUCK YEAH
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Amanita86]
#21960740 - 07/18/15 01:56 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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some real passion in this thread
-------------------- EVERYTHING EVENTUALLY BECOMES A DESERT
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Amanita86
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lol, I appreciate your concern. Don't worry about my being "threatened", I'm not a fetus, and can defend myself quite adequately.
I've not twisted any words either, but discounted every bullshit scenario and hypothetical situation you come up with. My stance can be summed up in one sentence and all my posts reflect that.
So you can take your little in jest suggestion/accusation back to the drawing board and fire back a reply when you brainstorm one up..
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Orange clock, pencil "They threw me off the hay truck about noon..."
*Mark 15:34  Gam zeh ya’avor...
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pirate-blues


Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 13,656
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Amanita86]
#21960758 - 07/18/15 02:05 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Amanita86 said: You're the one that said it..
You know what you have changed me, perhaps the murder of your bloodlines is a good thing. The problem taking care of it's self. Just pretend I was never here, and carry on as you were.. Infact, step up the pace if you can, let's reach that goal sooner than later.. 
oh, you're too cute.
Classy, immature AND unable to have an intelligent discussion of any kind.
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Amanita86
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Registered: 09/26/12
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Orange clock, pencil "They threw me off the hay truck about noon..."
*Mark 15:34  Gam zeh ya’avor...
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Mr.GuessWork
Stranger

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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Amanita86]
#21960771 - 07/18/15 02:12 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Amanita86 said: So all abortions are high school girls that come from poor families now?
...hey, atleast they aren't murderers.
No. SOME abortions are high school girls that come from poor families now. Would you force your point of view on a high school girl if you thought she might end up like one of the girls I described?
Please don't dodge the question.
Quote:
Amanita86 said: lol, I appreciate your concern. Don't worry about my being "threatened", I'm not a fetus, and can defend myself quite adequately.
I've not twisted any words either, but discounted every bullshit scenario and hypothetical situation you come up with. My stance can be summed up in one sentence and all my posts reflect that.
So you can take your little in jest suggestion/accusation back to the drawing board and fire back a reply when you brainstorm one up..
Calm down, dude. I wasn't attacking you, and I wasn't concerned. I know you're not a fetus. I was trying to encourage reasonable discussion, and it seems to me that you're teetering on the edge a bit. There's nothing wrong with that, and I'm sincerely not trying to fuck with you. I'm trying to make sure we're all aware that the emotional weight of the conversation can and will step on the reason in it. Look at you're last replies, and look at your tone and look at what you said we said. You're not being fair.
Just to reaffirm, I still like you.
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Amanita86
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Registered: 09/26/12
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You don't have to reaffirm anything, we're all adults here. I've made where I stand on this matter real clear. And I didn't need bullshit hypotheticals to make my points. Like I said, I'm not swaying..
Quote:
pirate-blues said: oh, you're too cute.
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Orange clock, pencil "They threw me off the hay truck about noon..."
*Mark 15:34  Gam zeh ya’avor...
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Mr.GuessWork
Stranger

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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Amanita86]
#21960880 - 07/18/15 02:49 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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There was nothing bullshit about that hypothetical. It happens all the time. You've probably noticed it happen more than once yourself.
So, to reiterate the question that you dodged, should I assume you would want a highschool girl to have a baby even when you honestly think she'll seriously fuck up her life and the kid's life by doing it? What you've posted so far suggests that that's what you would push for.
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Amanita86
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Registered: 09/26/12
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I'd push for whatever inconveniences you personally the most.
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Orange clock, pencil "They threw me off the hay truck about noon..."
*Mark 15:34  Gam zeh ya’avor...
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pirate-blues


Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 13,656
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Amanita86]
#21960896 - 07/18/15 02:55 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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my jimmies have been sufficiently ruffled. It takes a rare person(or good troll) to do that, so mad props for that.

it's time for me to gtfo of this thread because I've got some actual shit to do.
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Mr.GuessWork
Stranger

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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Amanita86]
#21960918 - 07/18/15 03:00 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Amanita86 said: I'd push for whatever inconveniences you personally the most.
Then you're going to be conflicted because I haven't made up my mind about what that is. Belligerently refusing to answer simple questions because the truth makes you uncomfortable is a good effort though.
Later, pirate-blues.
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Amanita86
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Far from uncomfortable either..
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Orange clock, pencil "They threw me off the hay truck about noon..."
*Mark 15:34  Gam zeh ya’avor...
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Mr.GuessWork
Stranger

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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Amanita86]
#21960971 - 07/18/15 03:13 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Amanita86 said: Far from uncomfortable either..
Care to clarify that statement?
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Amanita86
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Registered: 09/26/12
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Uhhh..
If uncomfortable was over there, I'd be like way over here, in comfortable. ...and stuff.
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Orange clock, pencil "They threw me off the hay truck about noon..."
*Mark 15:34  Gam zeh ya’avor...
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Mr.GuessWork
Stranger

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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Amanita86]
#21961016 - 07/18/15 03:21 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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You know that's not the answer I was baiting.
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Amanita86
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I have an answer you can bait..
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Orange clock, pencil "They threw me off the hay truck about noon..."
*Mark 15:34  Gam zeh ya’avor...
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Mr.GuessWork
Stranger

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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Amanita86]
#21961060 - 07/18/15 03:33 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I don't think I want that one.
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ

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my God,... you're all posting such regurgitated crap.
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Amanita86
OTD Keymaster


Registered: 09/26/12
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Are you sitting around waiting on me to reply?
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Orange clock, pencil "They threw me off the hay truck about noon..."
*Mark 15:34  Gam zeh ya’avor...
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Amanita86
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: akira_akuma]
#21961082 - 07/18/15 03:38 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
akira_akuma said: my God,... you're all posting such regurgitated crap.
Enlighten us dunzo. You seem to be pretty content with your own intelligence, what doth you profess?
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Orange clock, pencil "They threw me off the hay truck about noon..."
*Mark 15:34  Gam zeh ya’avor...
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Mr.GuessWork
Stranger

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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: akira_akuma]
#21961084 - 07/18/15 03:38 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
akira_akuma said: my God,... you're all posting such regurgitated crap.
It's true at this point.
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Mr.GuessWork
Stranger

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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Amanita86]
#21961092 - 07/18/15 03:40 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Amanita86 said: Are you sitting around waiting on me to reply?
I must be at this point because nothing else is happening. Maybe we should just abandon what little discussion might remain for the sake of rule #4.
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ

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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Amanita86]
#21961142 - 07/18/15 03:49 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Amanita86 said:
Quote:
akira_akuma said: my God,... you're all posting such regurgitated crap.
Enlighten us dunzo. You seem to be pretty content with your own intelligence, what doth you profess?
seriously... 11 pages about abortion rights?
you live in modern society. give it a rest, is all i'm saying. it's boring and you're all arguing for no good reason. no one can get along here unless they on the same exact side of a gouged out issue that's already been paraded around since the dawn of modern civilization.
just give it up.
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Crystal G



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Quote:
Mr.GuessWork said:
Quote:
Amanita86 said:
...
Well let me ask you this. In the mind of every aborted fetus that ever was and will be... what does that make you?
You're personifying the fetus too much, man. It doesn't have a functional mind. It can respond to some stimuli, but it sure as hell isn't forming abstract ideas.
Precisely what I was going to say. There is no "mind" within an aborted fetus. Why are you pretending like they are capable of forming coherently streamlined thoughts?
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akira_akuma
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Crystal G]
#21962803 - 07/18/15 11:08 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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a fetus mind:
"i am laying inbetween two magnificent folds right now, a consciousness broken between the fragments of my coming together, and non-existence."
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makaveli8x8
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Crystal G]
#21962936 - 07/18/15 11:43 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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why do they need abstract thought or streamlined thoughts for it to matter? Isn't being able to use your senses, if even only partly useing them, enough?
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  We were sent to hell for eternity Ø h® We play on earth to pass the time Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.
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akira_akuma
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: makaveli8x8]
#21963063 - 07/19/15 12:12 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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fetus's cannot voice their opinion's, thus they are bereft from having any say in their livelihood. then take into account that they couldn't possibly care about that, well...think about that.
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endogenous
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: makaveli8x8] 1
#21963256 - 07/19/15 01:22 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
makaveli8x8 said:
Quote:
endogenous said: The point is that the fetus doesn't know itself apart from the other organs in the mother's body.
If you take a person from Russia and bring them to the US - it usually will take a long time before they start feeling like they're separate from Russia.
you actually don't know that for a fact. All you know is that you don't have memories of knowing what it was like to be a fetus.
For all we know, 8+ weeks in, you have 1 neuron in just the right place that lets you experience what its like to be a fetus, but with zero memory retention, or memory for 1 second, whatever it may be.
Fact is, we don't know, which is why its a debate, the only ones pretending its fact, is the baby killers so they don't feel guilty for doing it, if they even feel guilt at all.
We don't know for sure that the sun is going to rise in the morning. But there aren't many people who would want to debate about it.
The fact is that the fetus is like an organ of the mother's body and it is reasonable to assume that it relates to the mother's body in the same way as the other organs of the mother's body.
But the fetus-freaks, (similar to "Jesus-freaks") don't want to listen to reason. They are too busy believing that people who've been dead for 3 days can come back to life.
No reason to waste time debating with someone like that.
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akira_akuma
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: endogenous]
#21963263 - 07/19/15 01:23 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Y-Y-Y-YYYYYYYYeap.
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makaveli8x8
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: endogenous]
#21963280 - 07/19/15 01:33 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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that sounds like alot of opinion, i bet there are lots of people who debate when a baby gains the ability to feel and sense, as well as when it begins to think, hence, the great debate
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ballsalsa
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: endogenous] 1
#21963987 - 07/19/15 09:36 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
endogenous said:
The fact is that the fetus is like an organ of the mother's body and it is reasonable to assume that it relates to the mother's body in the same way as the other organs of the mother's body.
But the fetus-freaks, (similar to "Jesus-freaks") don't want to listen to reason. They are too busy believing that people who've been dead for 3 days can come back to life.
No reason to waste time debating with someone like that.
The fact is that you are going to have to prove that claim somehow if you want people to accept it as fact. It is reasonable to assume that organs don't "relate" to anything, so what are you talking about? A fetus has very few things in common with it's mothers organs, aside from a temporary connection to the mother's circulatory system. As for "fetus-freaks", thats just an ad hominem attack, with little bearing on the topic at hand. It shows that your argument cannot stand on it's own merit. You are doing a disservice to women by trivializing a decision that should be carefully considered
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ThatKidWithTheFace
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: akira_akuma] 1
#21963994 - 07/19/15 09:40 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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,Quote:
akira_akuma said: fetus's cannot voice their opinion's, thus they are bereft from having any say in their livelihood. then take into account that they couldn't possibly care about that, well...think about that.
Neither can infants and we can't go around hittin' 'em with a hammer.
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[quote]Sheekle said: [quote]ThatKidWithTheFace said: Is this the same aunt that fucks dogs?[/quote] u bet ur ass it is.[/quote]
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Mr.GuessWork
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: ballsalsa]
#21964024 - 07/19/15 09:48 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
ballsalsa said:
Quote:
endogenous said:
The fact is that the fetus is like an organ of the mother's body and it is reasonable to assume that it relates to the mother's body in the same way as the other organs of the mother's body.
But the fetus-freaks, (similar to "Jesus-freaks") don't want to listen to reason. They are too busy believing that people who've been dead for 3 days can come back to life.
No reason to waste time debating with someone like that.
The fact is that you are going to have to prove that claim somehow if you want people to accept it as fact. It is reasonable to assume that organs don't "relate" to anything, so what are you talking about? A fetus has very few things in common with it's mothers organs, aside from a temporary connection to the mother's circulatory system. As for "fetus-freaks", thats just an ad hominem attack, with little bearing on the topic at hand. It shows that your argument cannot stand on it's own merit. You are doing a disservice to women by trivializing a decision that should be carefully considered
This analogy has gotten far too convoluted. The point is that a fetus is not the same thing as a baby in either a physiological sense or a psychological sense. Yes it's more complicated than an organ, but it is not a tiny baby either. The reason the analogy was put forth was because people were talking about fetuses like they were mini people or mini babies, and they are not persons as in "a human being regarded as an individual". There is a significant difference between between a fetus and a person that should not be ignored by reasonable fair-minded people.
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ThatKidWithTheFace
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Says who? You?
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[quote]Sheekle said: [quote]ThatKidWithTheFace said: Is this the same aunt that fucks dogs?[/quote] u bet ur ass it is.[/quote]
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Mr.GuessWork
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Quote:
ThatKidWithTheFace said: Says who? You?
Ask more detailed questions so people can discern what you're talking about.
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ballsalsa
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Quote:
Mr.GuessWork said:
Quote:
ballsalsa said:
Quote:
endogenous said:
The fact is that the fetus is like an organ of the mother's body and it is reasonable to assume that it relates to the mother's body in the same way as the other organs of the mother's body.
But the fetus-freaks, (similar to "Jesus-freaks") don't want to listen to reason. They are too busy believing that people who've been dead for 3 days can come back to life.
No reason to waste time debating with someone like that.
The fact is that you are going to have to prove that claim somehow if you want people to accept it as fact. It is reasonable to assume that organs don't "relate" to anything, so what are you talking about? A fetus has very few things in common with it's mothers organs, aside from a temporary connection to the mother's circulatory system. As for "fetus-freaks", thats just an ad hominem attack, with little bearing on the topic at hand. It shows that your argument cannot stand on it's own merit. You are doing a disservice to women by trivializing a decision that should be carefully considered
This analogy has gotten far too convoluted. The point is that a fetus is not the same thing as a baby in either a physiological sense or a psychological sense. Yes it's more complicated than an organ, but it is not a tiny baby either. The reason the analogy was put forth was because people were talking about fetuses like they were mini people or mini babies, and they are not persons as in "a human being regarded as an individual". There is a significant difference between between a fetus and a person that should not be ignored by reasonable fair-minded people.
what you are saying is true, but there are also significant differences between an infant and a toddler, or a zygote and a fetus, so the line being drawn is an arbitrary one. on this side of the line, you are a person, and on the other, you are less even than an animal. That's fine, after all, humans are great at seperating things into groups, but we should recognize the arbitrary nature of the distinctions we sometimes make, lest we start believing that they have a "factual" basis.
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Mr.GuessWork
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: ballsalsa]
#21964134 - 07/19/15 10:11 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
ballsalsa said:
...
what you are saying is true, but there are also significant differences between an infant and a toddler, or a zygote and a fetus, so the line being drawn is an arbitrary one. on this side of the line, you are a person, and on the other, you are less even than an animal. That's fine, after all, humans are great at seperating things into groups, but we should recognize the arbitrary nature of the distinctions we sometimes make, lest we start believing that they have a "factual" basis.
I agree completely. That's why we need to be very careful about what we call a person. I think it's fair to say that the fetus takes on evident qualities that make it pretty person-like somewhere before birth if you look at it in terms of a fetus being close to a baby in terms of it's physiological and psychological development (as derived from physiological studies). I think looking at the physiological underpinnings of what sentience is a good start. Pirate blues posted a great link on it a while back. It's a bit involved, and it may be difficult to understand if you don't have some background in the stuff, but it's worth a read none the less. It's certainly better than just calling it a person because it has the potential to become one someday.
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endogenous
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: ballsalsa]
#21966130 - 07/19/15 04:34 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
ballsalsa said: It is reasonable to assume that organs don't "relate" to anything, so what are you talking about?
Organ Transplants Cellular Memory Proves Major Organs Have Self-Contained Brains?
Organ transplants cellular memory is a premise which exemplifies that our brain is not the only organ that stores personality traits and memories.... Major organs like the heart, liver, kidney, and even muscles are known to contain large populations of neural networks, which are self-contained brains and produce noticeable changes.
http://guardianlv.com/2013/06/organ-transplants-cellular-memory-proves-major-organs-have-self-contained-brains/
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endogenous
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: ballsalsa]
#21966251 - 07/19/15 05:12 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
ballsalsa said: As for "fetus-freaks", thats just an ad hominem attack, with little bearing on the topic at hand.
Fetus-freaks are people who, like Jesus-freaks, have no reasonable or scientific basis for their statements. They have only "faith" on which to base their assertions. You can't argue with someone like that since there are no facts that are being used to base anything on.
They also have the regrettable characteristic of trying to push their beliefs onto others as well as trying to enforce their beliefs through passage of laws.
-------------------- The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.
Edited by endogenous (07/19/15 05:28 PM)
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Astral Pain
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: endogenous]
#21975048 - 07/21/15 10:18 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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They just released another video of a Dr. Mary Gatter, President of Planned Parenthood’s Medical Director’s Council discussing prices. They're clearly guilty of the profit part, but the most damaging is them changing the technique for their benefit. The lady even states while discussing prices that she wants to get a Lamborghini.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/07/21/new-video-shows-another-planned-parenthood-doctor-haggling-price-of-baby-body-parts/
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Mr.GuessWork
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Astral Pain]
#21975081 - 07/21/15 10:31 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Pretty much everybody in a high up position like that is a thoughtless profiteering scumbag in some significant way. She's trying to increase profits. It's her job. Even charities do this shit. I don't know why you're especially disgusted that it's happening here. . Expecting otherwise is just naive.
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Astral Pain
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I'm well aware of the scumbaggery, but now that this is out in the open with video evidence of clear criminal wrongdoing, it'll be interesting to see what becomes of it if anything.
-------------------- "I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out" -Bill Hicks-
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Mr.GuessWork
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Astral Pain]
#21975191 - 07/21/15 11:07 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Clear criminal wrong doing?
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Astral Pain
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Selling the body parts is illegal, and changing the abortion procedure to make them more profitable is as well. Admitting both of those criminal wrongdoings were captured of video.
-------------------- "I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out" -Bill Hicks-
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Mr.GuessWork
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Astral Pain]
#21975248 - 07/21/15 11:20 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'm pretty sure both of those things can be done within the confines of the law, but I could be wrong. Do you have a source to back up the illegality claim?
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koods
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wait. that is the video that is causing such a fuss? nothing in that was out of the ordinary. she obviously is taking about being compensated for the costs associated with harvesting tissue. If private industry wants the tiisue, they should pay for the work.
this is ridiculous. the actual value of human tissue is way more than $75. you are delusional if you think this is some big baby parts assembly line. The planned parenthood lady even said they "have low volume"
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Astral Pain
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: koods]
#21975345 - 07/21/15 11:54 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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So you're saying it's just the labor cost of extraction they are referring to?
-------------------- "I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out" -Bill Hicks-
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zappaisgod
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: koods]
#21977290 - 07/21/15 08:02 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said: wait. that is the video that is causing such a fuss? nothing in that was out of the ordinary. she obviously is taking about being compensated for the costs associated with harvesting tissue. If private industry wants the tiisue, they should pay for the work.
this is ridiculous. the actual value of human tissue is way more than $75. you are delusional if you think this is some big baby parts assembly line. The planned parenthood lady even said they "have low volume"
It is explicitly against the law to structure an abortion procedure in order to preserve desired parts. I already posted a link to the applicable statute
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nooneman


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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Astral Pain]
#21977360 - 07/21/15 08:17 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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If planned parenthood was off the government dime and had zero government regulation, that shit would do insane business. There'd be a planned parenthood next to a starbucks on every corner.
That's pretty much all I have to contribute to this thread. I read OTD pretty regularly. These videos are bland and boring in comparison.
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Mr.GuessWork
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: zappaisgod]
#21977404 - 07/21/15 08:26 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
koods said: wait. that is the video that is causing such a fuss? nothing in that was out of the ordinary. she obviously is taking about being compensated for the costs associated with harvesting tissue. If private industry wants the tiisue, they should pay for the work.
this is ridiculous. the actual value of human tissue is way more than $75. you are delusional if you think this is some big baby parts assembly line. The planned parenthood lady even said they "have low volume"
It is explicitly against the law to structure an abortion procedure in order to preserve desired parts. I already posted a link to the applicable statute
This is the post I think you're refering to:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/289g-1
Quote:
In research carried out under subsection (a) of this section, human fetal tissue may be used only if the attending physician with respect to obtaining the tissue from the woman involved makes a statement, made in writing and signed by the physician, declaring that— (A) in the case of tissue obtained pursuant to an induced abortion— (i) the consent of the woman for the abortion was obtained prior to requesting or obtaining consent for a donation of the tissue for use in such research; (ii) no alteration of the timing, method, or procedures used to terminate the pregnancy was made solely for the purposes of obtaining the tissue; and (iii) the abortion was performed in accordance with applicable State law;
...
You're referring to point (ii), I presume. I think there might be a meaningful difference between altering the methods solely to obtain the tissue, and altering the methods solely to preserve the tissue.
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zappaisgod
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That was exactly the clause I was referring to. And obtaining the tissue would occur before preserving the tissue so your point seems to be moot. The article speaks of preserving. The law speaks to obtaining. You cannot preserve what you have not obtained. Are we really going to be this nitpickery? It is against the law to structure an abortion for the purposes of selecting the tissue you want. Is that better for you? What they are doing is clearly against the law.
These people are shit. I think they are scum and I DO NOT OPPOSE ABORTION RIGHTS. I just oppose the rationale and the legal reasoning these idiots use to allow it.
PP should not get any tax money
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