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Mr.GuessWork
Stranger

Registered: 03/30/13
Posts: 4,563
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Quote:
ThatKidWithTheFace said: Says who? You?
Ask more detailed questions so people can discern what you're talking about.
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,864
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Quote:
Mr.GuessWork said:
Quote:
ballsalsa said:
Quote:
endogenous said:
The fact is that the fetus is like an organ of the mother's body and it is reasonable to assume that it relates to the mother's body in the same way as the other organs of the mother's body.
But the fetus-freaks, (similar to "Jesus-freaks") don't want to listen to reason. They are too busy believing that people who've been dead for 3 days can come back to life.
No reason to waste time debating with someone like that.
The fact is that you are going to have to prove that claim somehow if you want people to accept it as fact. It is reasonable to assume that organs don't "relate" to anything, so what are you talking about? A fetus has very few things in common with it's mothers organs, aside from a temporary connection to the mother's circulatory system. As for "fetus-freaks", thats just an ad hominem attack, with little bearing on the topic at hand. It shows that your argument cannot stand on it's own merit. You are doing a disservice to women by trivializing a decision that should be carefully considered
This analogy has gotten far too convoluted. The point is that a fetus is not the same thing as a baby in either a physiological sense or a psychological sense. Yes it's more complicated than an organ, but it is not a tiny baby either. The reason the analogy was put forth was because people were talking about fetuses like they were mini people or mini babies, and they are not persons as in "a human being regarded as an individual". There is a significant difference between between a fetus and a person that should not be ignored by reasonable fair-minded people.
what you are saying is true, but there are also significant differences between an infant and a toddler, or a zygote and a fetus, so the line being drawn is an arbitrary one. on this side of the line, you are a person, and on the other, you are less even than an animal. That's fine, after all, humans are great at seperating things into groups, but we should recognize the arbitrary nature of the distinctions we sometimes make, lest we start believing that they have a "factual" basis.
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Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here
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Mr.GuessWork
Stranger

Registered: 03/30/13
Posts: 4,563
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: ballsalsa]
#21964134 - 07/19/15 10:11 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
ballsalsa said:
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what you are saying is true, but there are also significant differences between an infant and a toddler, or a zygote and a fetus, so the line being drawn is an arbitrary one. on this side of the line, you are a person, and on the other, you are less even than an animal. That's fine, after all, humans are great at seperating things into groups, but we should recognize the arbitrary nature of the distinctions we sometimes make, lest we start believing that they have a "factual" basis.
I agree completely. That's why we need to be very careful about what we call a person. I think it's fair to say that the fetus takes on evident qualities that make it pretty person-like somewhere before birth if you look at it in terms of a fetus being close to a baby in terms of it's physiological and psychological development (as derived from physiological studies). I think looking at the physiological underpinnings of what sentience is a good start. Pirate blues posted a great link on it a while back. It's a bit involved, and it may be difficult to understand if you don't have some background in the stuff, but it's worth a read none the less. It's certainly better than just calling it a person because it has the potential to become one someday.
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endogenous
נפל מגיהינום


Registered: 10/07/12
Posts: 2,365
Last seen: 24 days, 22 hours
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: ballsalsa]
#21966130 - 07/19/15 04:34 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
ballsalsa said: It is reasonable to assume that organs don't "relate" to anything, so what are you talking about?
Organ Transplants Cellular Memory Proves Major Organs Have Self-Contained Brains?
Organ transplants cellular memory is a premise which exemplifies that our brain is not the only organ that stores personality traits and memories.... Major organs like the heart, liver, kidney, and even muscles are known to contain large populations of neural networks, which are self-contained brains and produce noticeable changes.
http://guardianlv.com/2013/06/organ-transplants-cellular-memory-proves-major-organs-have-self-contained-brains/
-------------------- The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.
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endogenous
נפל מגיהינום


Registered: 10/07/12
Posts: 2,365
Last seen: 24 days, 22 hours
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: ballsalsa]
#21966251 - 07/19/15 05:12 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
ballsalsa said: As for "fetus-freaks", thats just an ad hominem attack, with little bearing on the topic at hand.
Fetus-freaks are people who, like Jesus-freaks, have no reasonable or scientific basis for their statements. They have only "faith" on which to base their assertions. You can't argue with someone like that since there are no facts that are being used to base anything on.
They also have the regrettable characteristic of trying to push their beliefs onto others as well as trying to enforce their beliefs through passage of laws.
-------------------- The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.
Edited by endogenous (07/19/15 05:28 PM)
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Astral Pain
Strange

Registered: 11/10/14
Posts: 2,923
Loc: Chicago
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: endogenous]
#21975048 - 07/21/15 10:18 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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They just released another video of a Dr. Mary Gatter, President of Planned Parenthood’s Medical Director’s Council discussing prices. They're clearly guilty of the profit part, but the most damaging is them changing the technique for their benefit. The lady even states while discussing prices that she wants to get a Lamborghini.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/07/21/new-video-shows-another-planned-parenthood-doctor-haggling-price-of-baby-body-parts/
-------------------- "I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out" -Bill Hicks-
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Mr.GuessWork
Stranger

Registered: 03/30/13
Posts: 4,563
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Astral Pain]
#21975081 - 07/21/15 10:31 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Pretty much everybody in a high up position like that is a thoughtless profiteering scumbag in some significant way. She's trying to increase profits. It's her job. Even charities do this shit. I don't know why you're especially disgusted that it's happening here. . Expecting otherwise is just naive.
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Astral Pain
Strange

Registered: 11/10/14
Posts: 2,923
Loc: Chicago
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I'm well aware of the scumbaggery, but now that this is out in the open with video evidence of clear criminal wrongdoing, it'll be interesting to see what becomes of it if anything.
-------------------- "I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out" -Bill Hicks-
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Mr.GuessWork
Stranger

Registered: 03/30/13
Posts: 4,563
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Astral Pain]
#21975191 - 07/21/15 11:07 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Clear criminal wrong doing?
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Astral Pain
Strange

Registered: 11/10/14
Posts: 2,923
Loc: Chicago
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Selling the body parts is illegal, and changing the abortion procedure to make them more profitable is as well. Admitting both of those criminal wrongdoings were captured of video.
-------------------- "I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out" -Bill Hicks-
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Mr.GuessWork
Stranger

Registered: 03/30/13
Posts: 4,563
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Astral Pain]
#21975248 - 07/21/15 11:20 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'm pretty sure both of those things can be done within the confines of the law, but I could be wrong. Do you have a source to back up the illegality claim?
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,059
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 30 minutes, 19 seconds
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wait. that is the video that is causing such a fuss? nothing in that was out of the ordinary. she obviously is taking about being compensated for the costs associated with harvesting tissue. If private industry wants the tiisue, they should pay for the work.
this is ridiculous. the actual value of human tissue is way more than $75. you are delusional if you think this is some big baby parts assembly line. The planned parenthood lady even said they "have low volume"
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Astral Pain
Strange

Registered: 11/10/14
Posts: 2,923
Loc: Chicago
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: koods]
#21975345 - 07/21/15 11:54 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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So you're saying it's just the labor cost of extraction they are referring to?
-------------------- "I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out" -Bill Hicks-
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: koods]
#21977290 - 07/21/15 08:02 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said: wait. that is the video that is causing such a fuss? nothing in that was out of the ordinary. she obviously is taking about being compensated for the costs associated with harvesting tissue. If private industry wants the tiisue, they should pay for the work.
this is ridiculous. the actual value of human tissue is way more than $75. you are delusional if you think this is some big baby parts assembly line. The planned parenthood lady even said they "have low volume"
It is explicitly against the law to structure an abortion procedure in order to preserve desired parts. I already posted a link to the applicable statute
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nooneman


Registered: 04/24/09
Posts: 14,561
Loc: Utah
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Astral Pain]
#21977360 - 07/21/15 08:17 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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If planned parenthood was off the government dime and had zero government regulation, that shit would do insane business. There'd be a planned parenthood next to a starbucks on every corner.
That's pretty much all I have to contribute to this thread. I read OTD pretty regularly. These videos are bland and boring in comparison.
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Mr.GuessWork
Stranger

Registered: 03/30/13
Posts: 4,563
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: zappaisgod]
#21977404 - 07/21/15 08:26 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
koods said: wait. that is the video that is causing such a fuss? nothing in that was out of the ordinary. she obviously is taking about being compensated for the costs associated with harvesting tissue. If private industry wants the tiisue, they should pay for the work.
this is ridiculous. the actual value of human tissue is way more than $75. you are delusional if you think this is some big baby parts assembly line. The planned parenthood lady even said they "have low volume"
It is explicitly against the law to structure an abortion procedure in order to preserve desired parts. I already posted a link to the applicable statute
This is the post I think you're refering to:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/289g-1
Quote:
In research carried out under subsection (a) of this section, human fetal tissue may be used only if the attending physician with respect to obtaining the tissue from the woman involved makes a statement, made in writing and signed by the physician, declaring that— (A) in the case of tissue obtained pursuant to an induced abortion— (i) the consent of the woman for the abortion was obtained prior to requesting or obtaining consent for a donation of the tissue for use in such research; (ii) no alteration of the timing, method, or procedures used to terminate the pregnancy was made solely for the purposes of obtaining the tissue; and (iii) the abortion was performed in accordance with applicable State law;
...
You're referring to point (ii), I presume. I think there might be a meaningful difference between altering the methods solely to obtain the tissue, and altering the methods solely to preserve the tissue.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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That was exactly the clause I was referring to. And obtaining the tissue would occur before preserving the tissue so your point seems to be moot. The article speaks of preserving. The law speaks to obtaining. You cannot preserve what you have not obtained. Are we really going to be this nitpickery? It is against the law to structure an abortion for the purposes of selecting the tissue you want. Is that better for you? What they are doing is clearly against the law.
These people are shit. I think they are scum and I DO NOT OPPOSE ABORTION RIGHTS. I just oppose the rationale and the legal reasoning these idiots use to allow it.
PP should not get any tax money
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