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InvisibleMr.GuessWork
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Mr.GuessWork]
    #21960602 - 07/18/15 01:19 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

We should just start combining our posts, pirate blues. It's entertaining to see that this argument has been done enough times that we can arrive at the same points at the same times. I feel like we're fleshing out the points nicely.


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InvisibleAmanita86
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: pirate-blues]
    #21960612 - 07/18/15 01:21 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

We arent talking about them..  we're talking about a fetus who hasn't made it out of a uterus yet..

You want to talk about bad deeds deserving death?  None of us would be here.  You're judging a fetus on what you suspect it to do and you're using negative suggestions in order to justify your killing it..


--------------------
:mushroom2:Orange clock, pencil:bouncysmoke:
"They threw me off the hay truck about noon...":fishing:
:mushroom2:*Mark 15:34:levitate::mushroom2::blueninja:
Gam zeh ya’avor...:sunny:


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InvisibleAmanita86
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: pirate-blues]
    #21960639 - 07/18/15 01:29 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Btw I like how you justify habitually killing fetuses in order to cut down on the serial killer population..  that's pretty rich.


--------------------
:mushroom2:Orange clock, pencil:bouncysmoke:
"They threw me off the hay truck about noon...":fishing:
:mushroom2:*Mark 15:34:levitate::mushroom2::blueninja:
Gam zeh ya’avor...:sunny:


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Invisiblepirate-blues
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Amanita86]
    #21960684 - 07/18/15 01:42 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Agreed :highfive: always nice to run into someone who's way of thinking clicks with your own.
Quote:

Amanita86 said:
We arent talking about them..  we're talking about a fetus who hasn't made it out of a uterus yet..

You want to talk about bad deeds deserving death?  None of us would be here.  You're judging a fucking fetus on what you suspect it to do and you're using negative suggestions in order to justify your killing it..





I haven't killed anything, if I got pregnant, yeah, I would very seriously consider and probably pursue an abortion, because objective facts tell me that the tissue growing in my stomach is not a baby yet. It's a bundle of nerves and cells that is the framework of a human being, and I'm sorry but science and healthcare are fields where people devote their entire careers to studies that undergo enormous scrutiny before any conclusion is drawn, studies that involve hundred upon hundreds of people, and studies that are built upon those studies that solidify it. I view death as going back to the place before you were born where awareness of your existence is nil, and in the early stages of pregnancy your brain is simply not yet a brain yet - it's the framework for one, it's not capable of producing thoughts, feelings, or doing much more than any other cell in terms of reaction to stimuli. "Pain response" is not necessarily the same sort of pain response that sentient creatures(and not even all sentient creatures.) I do think that it is morally wrong to perform abortions after the fetus has developed into an actual baby, unless the mother is at risk of dying. A lot of mental illness runs in my family, I'm bipolar, and I have relatives who are schizophrenic. I am incredibly hesitant to pass on my genes in the future(at least that's how I feel now). I don't want to burden a child with a life long ailment that drastically effects quality of life. Additionally, I'm on medication that absolutely should not be taken while pregnant. If I got pregnant, I would be incredibly worried about the harm that would come to the baby because of that medication and the effects it could have on the fetus from the get go and in the long run.

And no.
I'm not talking about bad deed. I'm talking about children who are born into horrible circumstances through no fault of their own. In an ideal world, people would take responsibility or put it up for adoption, but that's not how the world works.
Millions of unwanted children end up either in broken homes whether it's their biological family's or wherever the system has placed them. If you can't see the association between abuse, crime(whether victimized, or perpetrated) mental illness and poorly equipped parents I can't help but assume you live in an area and see things that are very different from the situation going on in wide swaths of not only the US but everywhere else.

Let's not forget that regardless of legality, there will always be people who will find a way, and abortion with subsist, where there is no regulation or cut off date, and where late stage abortions the baby has actually developed enough to feel and percieve pain in the same sense as us.
Quote:

Amanita86 said:
Btw I like how you justify habitually killing fetuses in order to cut down on the serial killer population..  that's pretty rich.




jesus fucking christ, I've tried to be respectful towards you, but either you are intentionally twisting my words with failed logic, or you simply cannot deduce anything that I've actually said and it's clear that you're not mature enough to have a civil discussion. It's a shame, because when someone tries to reach out and understand opposing view points, you do nothing but convince them to keep their own with that attitude.
:heart:


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InvisibleAmanita86
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: pirate-blues]
    #21960724 - 07/18/15 01:51 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

You're the one that said it..

You know what you have changed me, perhaps the murder of your bloodlines is a good thing.  The problem taking care of it's self.  Just pretend I was never here, and carry on as you were..  Infact, step up the pace if you can, let's reach that goal sooner than later.. :suicide:


--------------------
:mushroom2:Orange clock, pencil:bouncysmoke:
"They threw me off the hay truck about noon...":fishing:
:mushroom2:*Mark 15:34:levitate::mushroom2::blueninja:
Gam zeh ya’avor...:sunny:


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InvisibleMr.GuessWork
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Amanita86]
    #21960730 - 07/18/15 01:53 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Amanita86 said:
My stance is both.  In my world I can't justify the ending of life for convenience.  It just doesn't work that way.  In my world we suggest that a person be responsible for their actions.  We don't murder people for convenience, the thought of that is ...it's beyond words.

We take life pretty seriously where I come from, on all levels whether it's plants, animals or people etc..

Where I come from, when someone becomes pregnant, usually the celebrations commence.  It's a big fucking deal..

So whether it's moral, religious, or spiritual.. it's probably a mixture of all in my case.  But it's blatant respect for others when you get down to the nitty gritty of it..




I want to give you some perspective on this, because it works for you, but it doesn't work for everybody.

My highschool class had about 100 people in it. 3 or 4 of the girls in my class got pregnant and had the babies. It was a big deal for them too.  They had poor families with strong religious beleifs, and at least a couple of them broke out in tears and/or tried to hide the pregnancy from their parents when they found out about their pregnancies. They dropped out of school, had their babies, and lived at home with stressed out parents and no good future in sight. Last I heard, one of them was going to community college after being a heroine addict for several years, and the grandparents pretty much take care of the kids. Another girl, currently still a pill popper, is working at a gas station part time, and I avoid contact with her because I've seen the police at her parent's place too many times. The rest of the girls I haven't heard about in a while, but they were fucking up too the last time I heard. As far as I can tell, only the kids of the first girl I mentioned had any luck, and that's because they had good people like their grandparents around to help (basically take over for her is what I mean). None of them actually did anything good for themselves or the kids by taking responsibility for their actions like you suggest. The one that did best by her kids shirked most of her responsibilities to her parents.

Now, having those babies wasn't the sole cause of these girl's problems, and they'd probably have fucked up anyway, but the babies made all of their other problems more difficult to manage, and definitely contributed to fucking up their lives and their kids lives. Several girls had abortions or miscarriages in my class too, and they're doing better. Most of them had decent jobs or educations after school, and one or two of them were happily married last I heard.

You're point of view can be responsible for suffering as well as joy, depending on the circumstances. Make sure you don't get absorbed in ethnocentrism.



@pirate-blues - Go easy on Amanita. He's emotionally involved, but he's not trying to twist anybody's words deliberately. It's part of what makes emotional topics difficult to discuss. People make connections that aren't presented and they lose track of the structure of the argument, and forget about solidly reasoned points. He just feels a little threatened and he's reacting to that feeling by being defensive. If we can respectfully and satisfactory address his emotional concerns (which I'm not discounting), then he'll be more reasonable.

EDIT: Someday I'm going to stop fixing typos.


Edited by Mr.GuessWork (07/18/15 01:54 PM)


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InvisibleAmanita86
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Mr.GuessWork]
    #21960738 - 07/18/15 01:55 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

So all abortions are high school girls that come from poor families now?

...hey, atleast they aren't murderers.


--------------------
:mushroom2:Orange clock, pencil:bouncysmoke:
"They threw me off the hay truck about noon...":fishing:
:mushroom2:*Mark 15:34:levitate::mushroom2::blueninja:
Gam zeh ya’avor...:sunny:


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InvisibleSalomon
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Amanita86]
    #21960740 - 07/18/15 01:56 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

some real passion in this thread:kittywalk:


--------------------
EVERYTHING EVENTUALLY BECOMES A DESERT



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InvisibleAmanita86
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Mr.GuessWork] * 1
    #21960756 - 07/18/15 02:04 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

lol, I appreciate your concern.  Don't worry about my being "threatened", I'm not a fetus, and can defend myself quite adequately.

I've not twisted any words either, but discounted every bullshit scenario and hypothetical situation you come up with.  My stance can be summed up in one sentence and all my posts reflect that.

So you can take your little in jest suggestion/accusation back to the drawing board and fire back a reply when you brainstorm one up..


--------------------
:mushroom2:Orange clock, pencil:bouncysmoke:
"They threw me off the hay truck about noon...":fishing:
:mushroom2:*Mark 15:34:levitate::mushroom2::blueninja:
Gam zeh ya’avor...:sunny:


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Invisiblepirate-blues
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Amanita86]
    #21960758 - 07/18/15 02:05 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Amanita86 said:
You're the one that said it..

You know what you have changed me, perhaps the murder of your bloodlines is a good thing.  The problem taking care of it's self.  Just pretend I was never here, and carry on as you were..  Infact, step up the pace if you can, let's reach that goal sooner than later.. :suicide:





oh, you're too cute.

Classy, immature AND unable to have an intelligent discussion of any kind.

:thumbup:


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InvisibleAmanita86
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: pirate-blues]
    #21960763 - 07/18/15 02:07 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

:thatsinteresting:


--------------------
:mushroom2:Orange clock, pencil:bouncysmoke:
"They threw me off the hay truck about noon...":fishing:
:mushroom2:*Mark 15:34:levitate::mushroom2::blueninja:
Gam zeh ya’avor...:sunny:


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InvisibleMr.GuessWork
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Amanita86]
    #21960771 - 07/18/15 02:12 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Amanita86 said:
So all abortions are high school girls that come from poor families now?

...hey, atleast they aren't murderers.




No. SOME abortions are high school girls that come from poor families now. Would you force your point of view on a high school girl if you thought she might end up like one of the girls I described?

Please don't dodge the question.


Quote:

Amanita86 said:
lol, I appreciate your concern.  Don't worry about my being "threatened", I'm not a fetus, and can defend myself quite adequately.

I've not twisted any words either, but discounted every bullshit scenario and hypothetical situation you come up with.  My stance can be summed up in one sentence and all my posts reflect that.

So you can take your little in jest suggestion/accusation back to the drawing board and fire back a reply when you brainstorm one up..




Calm down, dude. I wasn't attacking you, and I wasn't concerned. I know you're not a fetus. I was trying to encourage reasonable discussion, and it seems to me that you're teetering on the edge a bit. There's nothing wrong with that, and I'm sincerely not trying to fuck with you. I'm trying to make sure we're all aware that the emotional weight of the conversation can and will step on the reason in it. Look at you're last replies, and look at your tone and look at what you said we said. You're not being fair.

Just to reaffirm, I still like you.


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InvisibleAmanita86
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Mr.GuessWork]
    #21960865 - 07/18/15 02:42 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

You don't have to reaffirm anything, we're all adults here.  I've made where I stand on this matter real clear.  And I didn't need bullshit hypotheticals to make my points.  Like I said, I'm not swaying..

Quote:

pirate-blues said:
oh, you're too cute.




:bashful:


--------------------
:mushroom2:Orange clock, pencil:bouncysmoke:
"They threw me off the hay truck about noon...":fishing:
:mushroom2:*Mark 15:34:levitate::mushroom2::blueninja:
Gam zeh ya’avor...:sunny:


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InvisibleMr.GuessWork
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Amanita86]
    #21960880 - 07/18/15 02:49 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

There was nothing bullshit about that hypothetical. It happens all the time. You've probably noticed it happen more than once yourself.

So, to reiterate the question that you dodged, should I assume you would want a highschool girl to have a baby even when you honestly think she'll seriously fuck up her life and the kid's life by doing it? What you've posted so far suggests that that's what you would push for.


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InvisibleAmanita86
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Mr.GuessWork]
    #21960892 - 07/18/15 02:53 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I'd push for whatever inconveniences you personally the most.


--------------------
:mushroom2:Orange clock, pencil:bouncysmoke:
"They threw me off the hay truck about noon...":fishing:
:mushroom2:*Mark 15:34:levitate::mushroom2::blueninja:
Gam zeh ya’avor...:sunny:


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Invisiblepirate-blues
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Amanita86]
    #21960896 - 07/18/15 02:55 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

my jimmies have been sufficiently ruffled. It takes a rare person(or good troll) to do that, so mad props for that.
:jimmies:

it's time for me to gtfo of this thread because I've got some actual shit to do.


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InvisibleMr.GuessWork
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Amanita86]
    #21960918 - 07/18/15 03:00 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Amanita86 said:
I'd push for whatever inconveniences you personally the most.




Then you're going to be conflicted because I haven't made up my mind about what that is. Belligerently refusing to answer simple questions because the truth makes you uncomfortable is a good effort though.:thumbup:





Later, pirate-blues.:bye:


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InvisibleAmanita86
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Mr.GuessWork]
    #21960927 - 07/18/15 03:04 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Far from uncomfortable either..


--------------------
:mushroom2:Orange clock, pencil:bouncysmoke:
"They threw me off the hay truck about noon...":fishing:
:mushroom2:*Mark 15:34:levitate::mushroom2::blueninja:
Gam zeh ya’avor...:sunny:


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InvisibleMr.GuessWork
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Amanita86]
    #21960971 - 07/18/15 03:13 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Amanita86 said:
Far from uncomfortable either..




Care to clarify that statement?:smug:


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InvisibleAmanita86
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Re: Baby body parts for sale [Re: Mr.GuessWork]
    #21961004 - 07/18/15 03:18 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Uhhh..

If uncomfortable was over there, I'd be like way over here, in comfortable.  ...and stuff.


--------------------
:mushroom2:Orange clock, pencil:bouncysmoke:
"They threw me off the hay truck about noon...":fishing:
:mushroom2:*Mark 15:34:levitate::mushroom2::blueninja:
Gam zeh ya’avor...:sunny:


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