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firstTIMER420
Born the son of a sharecropper..



Registered: 05/08/15
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Types of Transfers
#21950075 - 07/15/15 11:57 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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hey guys, since ive started my grain jars recently as well as some BRF cakes to spawn in trays, its got me wondering. I saw a pic a while ago from a tek from a couple years ago, and the pics had BRF jars with what looked like rye berries in it. got me thinking, what types of transfers can you successfully do.
G2BRF BRF2G
Agar2BRF
anything else I didn't cover(probably a lot, beides the obvious)
I know im new, just trying to explore my options with the tools at hand, and discover the techniques that seem to be unused and unsuggested, but still can work with a good success rate.
thanks
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Kizzle
Misanthrope


Registered: 08/30/11
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You can do transfers with BRF based substrate but it really needs to be done with filter bags instead of the standard PF style jars.
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firstTIMER420
Born the son of a sharecropper..



Registered: 05/08/15
Posts: 1,025
Loc: US, maybe?
Last seen: 6 years, 4 days
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Re: Types of Transfers [Re: Kizzle]
#21950213 - 07/16/15 01:11 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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can you elaborate? ive never used or even looked at filter bags TBH.
You mean getting a new spawn, like grains prepared and sterilized in a filter bag, then transferring the BRF spawn into the bag? If so, how would you do it?
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thoraxx
Wizard


Registered: 12/27/13
Posts: 580
Loc: Bavaria
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
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I guess in a filter bag you might be able to break up BRF cakes and then transfer, in a jar thats just not gonna work
With pf cakes you can only fruit them directly or expand to a bulk sub
If you wanted to do agar to brf you would obviously have to leave out the dry verm
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Revemu


Registered: 06/24/13
Posts: 151
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Re: Types of Transfers [Re: thoraxx]
#21950361 - 07/16/15 03:07 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I have successfully transferred a single standard dry-verm barriered PF cake to 3 grain jars. My friend does this at bulk, he is able to do 10 or more PF jars in a row in a SAB. The method: Clean everything in sab, clean yourself and so on, take 2 bowls into the sab, one for the dry verm and the other one for the spawn. Get out the cake from the jar, get rid off the dry verm layer then crumble the cakes with a cheese grater, as soon as you are ready immediately cover the spawn bowl with tinfoil, now get your grain jars and do a regular (PF2G) transfer with a spoon or smth. I have to mention this method is not really the best way to produce grain spawn due to high risk of contamination, however it is said that if it still gets contamed the PF spawn is as fast if you inoculate grains then contams will not have time to get foots on. I have seen PF2G-ed tubs got contamed after second flushes, I always have 4-5 flushes without any problems. I am curious how my first PF2G jars will perform, I am near full colonization now and no visible contams. (I am doing this for experimenting, my standard method is using agar plates and dropping them on grain, so I can G2G more jars or just simply make monotubs...)
For the next run I will try incoculating a grain spawn bag with a PF cake. It will be easier, you just simply have to get out the PF cake and get rid of the drywerm (if this method was used) then open the bag, drop the whole cake in it then immediately close it, and woala you are able to crush the cake by giving it a good massage through the bag, that's it.
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thoraxx
Wizard


Registered: 12/27/13
Posts: 580
Loc: Bavaria
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
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Re: Types of Transfers [Re: Revemu]
#21950378 - 07/16/15 03:26 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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what is the reason to do this instead of much easier common grainspawn? edit; Well now that i think about it, that seems like a great idea, prepping the BRF is a breeze compared to soaking and straining rye or worse WBS, just weight and mix
Im gonna give this a try next time i do spawn in a filterbag, just crumple it up and transfer massively or spawn to bulk directly
And since the PF tek works without a PC even, it should help me with contamination issues from my tiny PC that barely holds one filterbag at a time
Edited by thoraxx (07/16/15 03:37 AM)
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FreeWorldOrder


Registered: 12/24/13
Posts: 2,002
Loc: Indiana, USA
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Re: Types of Transfers [Re: Revemu]
#21950802 - 07/16/15 07:45 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Revemu said: I have successfully transferred a single standard dry-verm barriered PF cake to 3 grain jars. My friend does this at bulk, he is able to do 10 or more PF jars in a row in a SAB. The method: Clean everything in sab, clean yourself and so on, take 2 bowls into the sab, one for the dry verm and the other one for the spawn. Get out the cake from the jar, get rid off the dry verm layer then crumble the cakes with a cheese grater, as soon as you are ready immediately cover the spawn bowl with tinfoil, now get your grain jars and do a regular (PF2G) transfer with a spoon or smth. I have to mention this method is not really the best way to produce grain spawn due to high risk of contamination, however it is said that if it still gets contamed the PF spawn is as fast if you inoculate grains then contams will not have time to get foots on. I have seen PF2G-ed tubs got contamed after second flushes, I always have 4-5 flushes without any problems. I am curious how my first PF2G jars will perform, I am near full colonization now and no visible contams. (I am doing this for experimenting, my standard method is using agar plates and dropping them on grain, so I can G2G more jars or just simply make monotubs...)
For the next run I will try incoculating a grain spawn bag with a PF cake. It will be easier, you just simply have to get out the PF cake and get rid of the drywerm (if this method was used) then open the bag, drop the whole cake in it then immediately close it, and woala you are able to crush the cake by giving it a good massage through the bag, that's it.
I've grated cakes into bulk substrate with okay results, but IMO it seems like a waste of time using a cake to inoculate more spawn. May as well noc a bulk sub or just start out with grains via agar... 
Just trying to help...
-------------------- "They who can give up essential liberty, to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin Lets Grow Mushrooms Videos PastyWhyte's Easy Agar TEK Agar's Liquid Inoculant TEK
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Revemu


Registered: 06/24/13
Posts: 151
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Quote:
FreeWorldOrder said:
Quote:
I've grated cakes into bulk substrate with okay results, but IMO it seems like a waste of time using a cake to inoculate more spawn. May as well noc a bulk sub or just start out with grains via agar... 
Just trying to help...
Quote:
Revemu said:
Quote:
(I am doing this for experimenting, my standard method is using agar plates and dropping them on grain, so I can G2G more jars or just simply make monotubs...)
But hey thanks mate!  
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Kizzle
Misanthrope


Registered: 08/30/11
Posts: 9,855
Last seen: 17 hours, 53 minutes
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Re: Types of Transfers [Re: Revemu]
#21952231 - 07/16/15 02:21 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Revemu said: I have successfully transferred a single standard dry-verm barriered PF cake to 3 grain jars. My friend does this at bulk, he is able to do 10 or more PF jars in a row in a SAB. The method: Clean everything in sab, clean yourself and so on, take 2 bowls into the sab, one for the dry verm and the other one for the spawn. Get out the cake from the jar, get rid off the dry verm layer then crumble the cakes with a cheese grater, as soon as you are ready immediately cover the spawn bowl with tinfoil, now get your grain jars and do a regular (PF2G) transfer with a spoon or smth. I have to mention this method is not really the best way to produce grain spawn due to high risk of contamination, however it is said that if it still gets contamed the PF spawn is as fast if you inoculate grains then contams will not have time to get foots on. I have seen PF2G-ed tubs got contamed after second flushes, I always have 4-5 flushes without any problems. I am curious how my first PF2G jars will perform, I am near full colonization now and no visible contams. (I am doing this for experimenting, my standard method is using agar plates and dropping them on grain, so I can G2G more jars or just simply make monotubs...)
For the next run I will try incoculating a grain spawn bag with a PF cake. It will be easier, you just simply have to get out the PF cake and get rid of the drywerm (if this method was used) then open the bag, drop the whole cake in it then immediately close it, and woala you are able to crush the cake by giving it a good massage through the bag, that's it.
Sounds like BS to me. If you use anything that's not sterile, like a bowl or cheese grater, to transfer something to uncolonized grains contamination is pretty much guaranteed. Some people's idea of success is "Oh I still got some mushrooms it worked" ignoring the fact you'd get more by not contaminating your substrate and just fruiting the cakes as is. Transferring cakes to bulk substrates like that is another story of course but uncolonized grains/BRF are extremely vulnerable to bacteria and the bacteria reduces yield, leaves the substrate vulnerable to molds and in many cases prevents full colonization.
OP the main reason I said you should use bags is the cakes are a pain to get out of the jars, even more so to do it while keeping them sterile which is necessary if you're transferring them to grain or BRF substrate. However if BRF substrate was being transferred to it'd also be better to use bags so you mix them up afterwards as there's no way to shake up BRF in a jar as you could grains.
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firstTIMER420
Born the son of a sharecropper..



Registered: 05/08/15
Posts: 1,025
Loc: US, maybe?
Last seen: 6 years, 4 days
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Re: Types of Transfers [Re: Kizzle]
#21953834 - 07/16/15 09:09 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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So instead of colonizing them individually in each jar you just colonize in the bag, break it up, then transfer. Sounds like it would definitely be easier. And tbh, I don't think I would even attempt to transfer a cake to grains, I would think it would be an automatic contam and a waste of a good cake.
maybe you guys are just more ballsy than me
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Revemu


Registered: 06/24/13
Posts: 151
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Yeah I think that the whole procedure do not worth it, I would just wanted to say that these routes which do not follow the standards could also work as well. It is hard to achieve spawn from a cake, but it's not impossible.
I'm just writing down again: I am doing this for only experimenting not because this is the only way left for me. Please, take in mind this.
Okay, now back to the OP's subject. I will just post pictures from my PF2G-ed jars and soon tubs. This experiment will show us if it's working or not and if my tub contam out before usual. I don't really think it's bullshit, let's say you noc up 3 PF cakes. You fruit it, get some fruit and happy. Takes 1-2 months. What if you noc up 3 PF cakes. let colonize, transfer to 3 grain bag (or up to 9 jar), you can make 2-3 tubs from it. Still 1-2 months. I think I don't have to ask which will yield more even if I count failures IF ONLY 1 tub will do it's job it's way more cubes than from 3 shitty cakes. PF is totally good for learning and getting involved in micology, and to get some fruits, but no more. And here is this method with cakes which could increase yields why not to use if, if I already have cakes? I don't want me to look like I'm defending this method and I always doing this because that's not true, I see why people are arguing here about non-standard things like this but I have to say I've done many tubs with success and sometimes with failure but why not experiment? Why should I follow PF tek SGFC (I don't really like SGFC's, at all)? All I can say is I've done this kind of transfer successfully and will write a report here to prove if it works or not. Just please people don't treat me as a noob-childo, I have to work with agar again soon so please Just let's see what will become of this.
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OPB
Wanderer

Registered: 05/30/15
Posts: 198
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Re: Types of Transfers [Re: Revemu]
#21954597 - 07/17/15 02:11 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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You can transfer in any direction you can imagine. Some transfers are more likely to contam than others but if you can do it with reasonable mold and bacteria sterility than you can transfer from a grain jar to a loaf of bread if you want. I don't recommend this but you should get the idea. There is no complete list of potential transfers. If you can move mycelium from one substrate to another than its a potential transfer.
-------------------- "Wasn't that fun"
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Buck513

Registered: 04/17/14
Posts: 5,682
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Re: Types of Transfers [Re: OPB]
#21954601 - 07/17/15 02:15 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
OPB said: you can transfer from a grain jar to a loaf of bread if you want
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Kizzle
Misanthrope


Registered: 08/30/11
Posts: 9,855
Last seen: 17 hours, 53 minutes
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Re: Types of Transfers [Re: Buck513]
#21956402 - 07/17/15 02:17 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
What if you noc up 3 PF cakes. let colonize, transfer to 3 grain bag (or up to 9 jar), you can make 2-3 tubs from it.
You could just noc up 3 PF cakes and 3 grain bags and avoid the transfer altogether not to mention have them ready sooner because you don't have to wait for the cakes to colonize before the bags start colonizing.
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OPB
Wanderer

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Re: Types of Transfers [Re: Buck513]
#21956419 - 07/17/15 02:21 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Buck513 said:
Quote:
OPB said: you can transfer from a grain jar to a loaf of bread if you want

I'm sure it wouldn't work in the long run haha but I am just trying to illustrate the point that "transfer" is just the process of moving mycelium on to a nutritious substrate so attempting to list all of the ways to do this is a fool's errand.
-------------------- "Wasn't that fun"
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