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OfflineNavi
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Does being a virgin hold any spirtual value.
    #21948751 - 07/15/15 06:22 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Now that's not to say just being a virgin is spiritually rewarding/beneficial because you can be a virgin and still be shit head; Most of them are.

This question is mostly for those who believe in a spiritual path of some sort. Apart From Mary having been chosen in part because she was a virgin to carry out the birth of the Messiah. I haven't heard much about virginity holding any spiritual value except for maybe another very vague passage in the bible and learning about how various monks and people on a spiritual path follow abstinence. 


Do you think being a virgin and absent from sexual activity including masturbation holds any value to spiritual growth or development?


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Invisibletravelleler
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Re: Does being a virgin hold any spirtual value. [Re: Navi]
    #21948758 - 07/15/15 06:24 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Uhm.  Maybe?


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: Does being a virgin hold any spirtual value. [Re: travelleler]
    #21948772 - 07/15/15 06:27 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I doubt it. There's just so much to be learned about oneself by exploring one's sexuality.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Does being a virgin hold any spirtual value. [Re: travelleler]
    #21948777 - 07/15/15 06:28 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

According to the Philokalia, no, unless you are able to maintain purity of mind. If you are a virgin but give in to lustful thoughts, there is no value in it.


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OfflineNavi
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Re: Does being a virgin hold any spirtual value. [Re: Deviate]
    #21948904 - 07/15/15 06:54 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Yeh, that's kind of what I was thinking and even kind of hinted at that.

I would also agree in assuming that the path to maintain that level of purity would be difficult and could even cause some conflict if not properly guided & in a proper setting like a monastery.  I don't know, I am just pondering and try to scale things out.  I think it might hold some value though I know for certain I could be wrong.


Thank you all for all of these quick replies, I agree with much of all that was said here.  I am actually not trying to make this about the bible or any particular faith or practice at all, all are welcomed here. Though it seems the Bible & Jewish tradition put a heavy emphasis on being a virgin until marriage.  Reading further into the Judaeo-Christian view one of the reasoning is to keep the body sacred as it is a temple for the holy spirit.

Another one I found involves "the “mystery” of marriage (Ephesians 5:31). When God spoke of two people being joined as one, He was referring to something we’re only beginning to understand in a real, physiological way. When two people are intimate, the hypothalamus in the brain releases chemicals that induce feelings of attachment and trust. Having sex outside of marriage results in a person forming an attachment and trusting someone with whom he or she does not have a committed relationship". 


I guess I could do some research on how other ancient cultures viewed virginity.


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
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Re: Does being a virgin hold any spirtual value. [Re: Navi]
    #21950320 - 07/16/15 02:35 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Navi said:
Now that's not to say just being a virgin is spiritually rewarding/beneficial because you can be a virgin and still be shit head; Most of them are.

This question is mostly for those who believe in a spiritual path of some sort. Apart From Mary having been chosen in part because she was a virgin to carry out the birth of the Messiah. I haven't heard much about virginity holding any spiritual value except for maybe another very vague passage in the bible and learning about how various monks and people on a spiritual path follow abstinence. 


Do you think being a virgin and absent from sexual activity including masturbation holds any value to spiritual growth or development?




Possibly, but I think it would have to do with some form of biological diversity where one is asexual.  The animal kingdom is mighty diverse, so if one was to be asexual, perhaps experimenting with sexuality would  be inauthentic to oneself.


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


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InvisiblePocketLady
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Re: Does being a virgin hold any spirtual value. [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #21950367 - 07/16/15 03:13 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

The reason that abstinence is encouraged if you are on a spiritual path is not because there is any shame in having sex, as many believe and some religions teach. It is simply because the male ejaculation causes a loss in vitality (spiritual energy). For women, vitality is lost through the menses. If you are trying to meditate or reaching higher states of consciousness, you will not be able to do so if you have ejaculated recently, because you simply won't have the energy required to maintain a high level of awareness.


--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.

~ Rumi



The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
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Re: Does being a virgin hold any spirtual value. [Re: PocketLady]
    #21952870 - 07/16/15 05:08 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

PocketLady said:
The reason that abstinence is encouraged if you are on a spiritual path is not because there is any shame in having sex, as many believe and some religions teach. It is simply because the male ejaculation causes a loss in vitality (spiritual energy). For women, vitality is lost through the menses. If you are trying to meditate or reaching higher states of consciousness, you will not be able to do so if you have ejaculated recently, because you simply won't have the energy required to maintain a high level of awareness.




Depends on your hangups I guess, some people don't have these sexual hangups and it would be decreasing their vitality "spiritual energy" if they didn't have sex.  That's my opinion.


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
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Re: Does being a virgin hold any spirtual value. [Re: PocketLady]
    #21952904 - 07/16/15 05:15 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

PocketLady said:
The reason that abstinence is encouraged if you are on a spiritual path is not because there is any shame in having sex, as many believe and some religions teach. It is simply because the male ejaculation causes a loss in vitality (spiritual energy). For women, vitality is lost through the menses. If you are trying to meditate or reaching higher states of consciousness, you will not be able to do so if you have ejaculated recently, because you simply won't have the energy required to maintain a high level of awareness.



I find this concept interesting, because I have found the exact opposite to be true. I have experimented with periods of abstinence from sex and masturbation and this has always resulted in such intrusive sexual thoughts and urges that I find myself unable to hold a space in meditation like I normally can.

Perhaps this would be mitigated if I went for a period of say, 2 months or more, compared to the two weeks or so that I normally cave in at. But I wonder if this loss of energy that I have heard spoken of before might only apply to the most devout of practitioners (e.g a monk), rather than someone living in a world where temptation is constantly thrown upon you by social norms?


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Registered: 11/30/11
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Re: Does being a virgin hold any spirtual value. [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #21952909 - 07/16/15 05:16 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

CosmicJoke said:
Quote:

PocketLady said:
The reason that abstinence is encouraged if you are on a spiritual path is not because there is any shame in having sex, as many believe and some religions teach. It is simply because the male ejaculation causes a loss in vitality (spiritual energy). For women, vitality is lost through the menses. If you are trying to meditate or reaching higher states of consciousness, you will not be able to do so if you have ejaculated recently, because you simply won't have the energy required to maintain a high level of awareness.




Depends on your hangups I guess, some people don't have these sexual hangups and it would be decreasing their vitality "spiritual energy" if they didn't have sex.  That's my opinion.




Pretty much what I was thinking CJ!


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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Offlinedeff
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Re: Does being a virgin hold any spirtual value. [Re: PocketLady]
    #21952951 - 07/16/15 05:24 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

PocketLady said:
The reason that abstinence is encouraged if you are on a spiritual path is not because there is any shame in having sex, as many believe and some religions teach. It is simply because the male ejaculation causes a loss in vitality (spiritual energy). For women, vitality is lost through the menses. If you are trying to meditate or reaching higher states of consciousness, you will not be able to do so if you have ejaculated recently, because you simply won't have the energy required to maintain a high level of awareness.




I have to agree with the others that I haven't found this to be true myself. I went roughly seven months without ejaculating while holding this belief, and I didn't notice much of a difference really. and now i don't notice any energy loss or problems in meditation after ejaculation :shrug: i think there is a great potential for developing hang-ups and obsessive thinking on this topic. and if someone develops this kind of hang-up, i think it would be much more detrimental to meditation than ejaculating is. i know that yogic traditions often hold the view you mentioned, but i haven't found it to be particularly true myself. :smile:

that said, i could see trying to meditate immediately after ejaculating posing some problems in terms of focusing, in much the way that meditating immediately after any physical exercise can. but not so much imo over a longer period of time, that would necessitate abstinence.


--------------------



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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: Does being a virgin hold any spirtual value. [Re: deff]
    #21952968 - 07/16/15 05:29 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Glad you shared that deff - that's enough verification for me to feel that it's not worth experimenting with longer periods of abstinence!!

I actually used to meditate at times not long after ejaculation - conversely, I found that the calm that follows to be quite conducive to meditation!


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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Offlinedeff
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Re: Does being a virgin hold any spirtual value. [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #21952985 - 07/16/15 05:33 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

yeah I can see the calmness being beneficial :smile: it's something I don't think I've really tried before, or if I did then I didn't take mental note of it :smile:


--------------------



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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Does being a virgin hold any spirtual value. [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #21953551 - 07/16/15 08:02 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
Quote:

PocketLady said:
The reason that abstinence is encouraged if you are on a spiritual path is not because there is any shame in having sex, as many believe and some religions teach. It is simply because the male ejaculation causes a loss in vitality (spiritual energy). For women, vitality is lost through the menses. If you are trying to meditate or reaching higher states of consciousness, you will not be able to do so if you have ejaculated recently, because you simply won't have the energy required to maintain a high level of awareness.



I find this concept interesting, because I have found the exact opposite to be true. I have experimented with periods of abstinence from sex and masturbation and this has always resulted in such intrusive sexual thoughts and urges that I find myself unable to hold a space in meditation like I normally can.

Perhaps this would be mitigated if I went for a period of say, 2 months or more, compared to the two weeks or so that I normally cave in at. But I wonder if this loss of energy that I have heard spoken of before might only apply to the most devout of practitioners (e.g a monk), rather than someone living in a world where temptation is constantly thrown upon you by social norms?





I experience the same thing. First off, I do experience an energy loss if I ejaculate, especially if I ejaculate frequently. But if I don't, then often  like you I will experience intrusive sexual thoughts that prevent me from maintaining any sort of calm state of mind. If I ejaculate, its like ah now I can finally meditate without being disturbed by sexual thoughts constantly. So it seems like the energy loss is made up for by the ability to concentrate which I gain. I really hate going through the day trying to resist sexual thoughts all day long. I experienced this the worst when I was recieving shaktipat and trying to raise kundalini. I gave up on the kundalini path because it gave me too many sexual thoughts.

I really dont know what to do about this issue. Sometimes I feel like the only solution for me would be to get married.


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Invisiblecez
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Re: Does being a virgin hold any spirtual value. [Re: Deviate] * 1
    #21954451 - 07/17/15 12:10 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Why can't you watch a sexual thought as you would any other?


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OfflineAjahn Don
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Re: Does being a virgin hold any spirtual value. [Re: cez] * 1
    #21954998 - 07/17/15 07:27 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

cez said:
Why can't you watch a sexual thought as you would any other?




Exactly. Note it, and return to the breath. The voice in my head is just noise anyway.


--------------------
"He's not altogether dense, but he's not altogether there."


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OfflineMush-Room
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Re: Does being a virgin hold any spirtual value. [Re: Ajahn Don]
    #21955331 - 07/17/15 09:34 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

In my opinion no sex before marriage probably originated to help prevent disease, and also to protect the sanctity of marriage which had a sole purpose of procreation. Or you may view it as something similar to saving the best for last. Waiting  most of your life for a beautiful crescendo when you finally do have that sexual release

Now if you abstain longer than that it just may say something about your character. It shows you have very strong willpower. Nowadays that is something most people do no have and they are just looking for a quick fix. Something similar to a guy whose always looking for a get rich quick scheme vs someone who plans it out and does the time and labor and achieves greatness.

Quote:

Navi said:
is to keep the body sacred as it is a temple for the holy spirit.

Another one I found involves "the “mystery” of marriage (Ephesians 5:31). When God spoke of two people being joined as one, He was referring to something we’re only beginning to understand in a real, physiological way. When two people are intimate, the hypothalamus in the brain releases chemicals that induce feelings of attachment and trust. Having sex outside of marriage results in a person forming an attachment and trusting someone with whom he or she does not have a committed relationship". 



Or it could be referring to the joining of chromosomes to create offspring which occurs in all forms of life. We are all created in his image, not just humans, but all plants and animals.

And the chemicals you refer to are serotonin and Oxytocin. Serotonin is released to reduce stress and can be done in numerous ways. Oxytocin is release on touch, during breast feeding, and also during sexual release- in an intimate relationship. It is known as the love hormone, or the trust hormone. More on that here http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/275795.php

I think this may be linked to poor behavior if you are abused physically. Your receive oxytocin on touch but your cortisol levels rise as you are stressed out and it sends mixed signals to the brain making you less trusting of others.

Quote:

PocketLady said:
The reason that abstinence is encouraged if you are on a spiritual path is not because there is any shame in having sex, as many believe and some religions teach. It is simply because the male ejaculation causes a loss in vitality (spiritual energy). For women, vitality is lost through the menses. If you are trying to meditate or reaching higher states of consciousness, you will not be able to do so if you have ejaculated recently, because you simply won't have the energy required to maintain a high level of awareness.




I wonder if there is factual evidence of this, but this view is common an not unheard of. Many times coaches tell their players no sex before the big game because it may diminish their drive.

Like others said though after abstaining for periods of time i too find it difficult to focus on anything other than sex. Like i said before though many are just looking for a quick fix and nowadays porn is just a click away. When sex wasn't as easily accessible, abstaining will make you do things you wouldn't normally do. Similar to how a starving animal is more hostile than one that is fed.


Edited by Mush-Room (07/17/15 09:55 AM)


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InvisibleChronic7
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Re: Does being a virgin hold any spirtual value. [Re: Navi]
    #21955507 - 07/17/15 10:31 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

It can, but it's not a good rule for people to follow as there would be no people left!

Some people without supressing anything are naturally not very sexual beings, they could potentially find peace of mind a lot easier than someone who is distracted with sex, although it's not always the case as a virgin could easily be distracted by other means

Ultimately we are all the pure being itself but in the relative realms purity of speech, food, action etc counts for a lot, but that's not to say a prostitute is less pure than a virgin, it just depends on where your heads at...


--------------------


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InvisiblePocketLady
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Re: Does being a virgin hold any spirtual value. [Re: deff]
    #21956256 - 07/17/15 01:46 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Tbh I didn't really start noticing the effect of losing vitality until I started doing meditations in which the purpose is to store and build up this energy for later transmutation. It is the loss of the life giving seed that causes the loss of vital energy, sperm in men, and the passing of the egg in women. Personally I am female, so the ejaculation thing doesn't really apply to me.  I do however notice a drastic difference at the start of my cycle, so much so that I cannot get anywhere near a state of dhyana. But as I move away from the loss of vitality, meditation gradually becomes easier and easier, until I reach my peak towards the end of the cycle. It happens every month without fail. I know men who also do the same practices as me, as they all report the same thing. They also report being unable to prevent ejaculation at times, wet dreams etc, but once you get to a certain level that stops happening.

It has been mentioned to me before that a male abstaining from sex can run into issues such as the ones that have been described here. This is because the act of abstaining becomes more of a repression which isn't healthy. It must be an act of transmutation (rather than resistance), which occurs when the energy is being transformed or used in a certain way. This is really nothing to do with having sexual hang ups. Abstaining is not for everyone. IMHO this is the reason that religion seems so obsessed with encouraging people not to have sex. It's not because sex is dirty or shameful. "To the pure, all things are pure." The truth has just been distorted.


--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.

~ Rumi



The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir


Edited by PocketLady (07/17/15 01:57 PM)


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InvisiblePocketLady
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Re: Does being a virgin hold any spirtual value. [Re: PocketLady]
    #21956333 - 07/17/15 02:03 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Also wanted to add that it is the ejaculation itself that causes the loss of vitality. A person can learn to orgasm without ejaculation and can even harness it's power for spiritual transformation :smile:


--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.

~ Rumi



The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir


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