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Invisiblejesuisravi
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bulk substrate sterilization.
    #21947750 - 07/15/15 02:49 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

It is funny how the doctors differ on the subject of whether to sterize bulk substrate or not.On this site sterilization of bulk sub is powerfully frowned upon. Other places people are either not sure or advise that it always be done. I know the reasons for and against. I do it because it has worked for me. It is supposed to promote contaminations. I haven't seen that. My experience is very limited, however, so my words should be weighed accordingly.

I will continue sterilizing until my results teach me to do otherwise.


--------------------
Most of my beliefs I acquired from my father and from John Wayne, and anything that wasn't ultra tough and ultra cool was to me ultra embarrassing. In fact, I lived in a state of near continuous embarrassment, never measuring up to the ridiculous standards I had accepted without question, applied to a framework of expectations neither I nor anyone else could meet.--J C Amberchele

almost nothing important that ever happens to you happens because you engineer it. Destiny has no beeper; destiny always leans trenchcoated out of an alley with some sort of 'psst' that you usually can't even hear because you're in such a rush to or from something important you've tried to engineer. ”
― David Foster Wallace, Infinite Jest


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InvisibleSteveRogers
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Re: bulk substrate sterilization. [Re: jesuisravi]
    #21947795 - 07/15/15 02:58 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

My personal experience has been about a 5-7% loss rate with pasteurization. With a 15-17% contamination rate using sterilization. That is unacceptable to me.


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"General, I am loyal to nothing......except The Dream"


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OfflineDarkhome
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Re: bulk substrate sterilization. [Re: jesuisravi]
    #21947806 - 07/15/15 03:00 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Everyone has their own opinions and methods... If it works for you... It works for you... Now that I have few of the basics down I'm starting to experiment, but I always listen to the people on here... They are incredibly knowledgeable... My methods are a mixture of several teks.:themoreyouknow:


--------------------
“The shaman is not merely a sick man, or a madman; he is a sick man who has healed himself.”
~Terence McKenna~


"NOTHING"...I post or say is "TRUE"...Any pictures are taken from the Web and any conversation is just research for a fictional character. That being said; He is constantly seeking knowledge and evolving.


Edited by Darkhome (07/15/15 03:01 PM)


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Invisiblejesuisravi
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Re: bulk substrate sterilization. [Re: SteveRogers]
    #21948358 - 07/15/15 05:00 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

SteveRogers said:
My personal experience has been about a 5-7% loss rate with pasteurization. With a 15-17% contamination rate using sterilization. That is unacceptable to me.




You are wise to stick with what is working for you. That is my mode of operation also.


--------------------
Most of my beliefs I acquired from my father and from John Wayne, and anything that wasn't ultra tough and ultra cool was to me ultra embarrassing. In fact, I lived in a state of near continuous embarrassment, never measuring up to the ridiculous standards I had accepted without question, applied to a framework of expectations neither I nor anyone else could meet.--J C Amberchele

almost nothing important that ever happens to you happens because you engineer it. Destiny has no beeper; destiny always leans trenchcoated out of an alley with some sort of 'psst' that you usually can't even hear because you're in such a rush to or from something important you've tried to engineer. ”
― David Foster Wallace, Infinite Jest


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Invisiblejesuisravi
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Registered: 06/24/15
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Re: bulk substrate sterilization. [Re: Darkhome]
    #21948379 - 07/15/15 05:04 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Darkhome said:
Everyone has their own opinions and methods... If it works for you... It works for you... Now that I have few of the basics down I'm starting to experiment, but I always listen to the people on here... They are incredibly knowledgeable... My methods are a mixture of several teks.:themoreyouknow:




I agree, this is the mother of mushroom sites. That being said, direct personal experience is the Ur-mother of learning.


--------------------
Most of my beliefs I acquired from my father and from John Wayne, and anything that wasn't ultra tough and ultra cool was to me ultra embarrassing. In fact, I lived in a state of near continuous embarrassment, never measuring up to the ridiculous standards I had accepted without question, applied to a framework of expectations neither I nor anyone else could meet.--J C Amberchele

almost nothing important that ever happens to you happens because you engineer it. Destiny has no beeper; destiny always leans trenchcoated out of an alley with some sort of 'psst' that you usually can't even hear because you're in such a rush to or from something important you've tried to engineer. ”
― David Foster Wallace, Infinite Jest


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: bulk substrate sterilization. [Re: jesuisravi]
    #21948413 - 07/15/15 05:12 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

coir+verm+gypsum = you decide
anything else = proper pasteurization :thumbup:


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OfflineFreeWorldOrder
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Re: bulk substrate sterilization. [Re: spacechildo]
    #21948814 - 07/15/15 06:34 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Yea... what space says...

I have sterilized coir/verm and worked ok, but anything else definitely pasteurize or it's going to contam more often than not. Especially so with straw.


--------------------
"They who can give up essential liberty, to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

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OfflineThe shroomy 1
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Re: bulk substrate sterilization. [Re: FreeWorldOrder]
    #21949024 - 07/15/15 07:28 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

In my experience.... PROPER PASTEURIZATION and "CLEAN SPAWN" is a recipe for success.


--------------------


AMU Q&A thread.


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Invisiblejesuisravi
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Registered: 06/24/15
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Re: bulk substrate sterilization. [Re: FreeWorldOrder]
    #21949052 - 07/15/15 07:36 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

FreeWorldOrder said:
Yea... what space says...

I have sterilized coir/verm and worked ok, but anything else definitely pasteurize or it's going to contam more often than not. Especially so with straw.




I have enough spawn to experiment. I am going to try both ways and see what I can see. I don't doubt that you speak from your own experience. But my experience--small though it may be--tells me otherwise. That's how the world is. It is very hard to pin anything down, at least for long. Truth seems to be like one of those viruses that keeps mutating so that the medical men can't get a permanent handle on it.


--------------------
Most of my beliefs I acquired from my father and from John Wayne, and anything that wasn't ultra tough and ultra cool was to me ultra embarrassing. In fact, I lived in a state of near continuous embarrassment, never measuring up to the ridiculous standards I had accepted without question, applied to a framework of expectations neither I nor anyone else could meet.--J C Amberchele

almost nothing important that ever happens to you happens because you engineer it. Destiny has no beeper; destiny always leans trenchcoated out of an alley with some sort of 'psst' that you usually can't even hear because you're in such a rush to or from something important you've tried to engineer. ”
― David Foster Wallace, Infinite Jest


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Invisiblejesuisravi
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Re: bulk substrate sterilization. [Re: The shroomy 1]
    #21949059 - 07/15/15 07:38 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

The shroomy 1 said:
In my experience.... PROPER PASTEURIZATION and "CLEAN SPAWN" is a recipe for success.




Proper pasteurization? How is that done with manure and straw and coffee grounds? You will say, Look it up! I have. There again, Doctors differ.


--------------------
Most of my beliefs I acquired from my father and from John Wayne, and anything that wasn't ultra tough and ultra cool was to me ultra embarrassing. In fact, I lived in a state of near continuous embarrassment, never measuring up to the ridiculous standards I had accepted without question, applied to a framework of expectations neither I nor anyone else could meet.--J C Amberchele

almost nothing important that ever happens to you happens because you engineer it. Destiny has no beeper; destiny always leans trenchcoated out of an alley with some sort of 'psst' that you usually can't even hear because you're in such a rush to or from something important you've tried to engineer. ”
― David Foster Wallace, Infinite Jest


Edited by jesuisravi (07/15/15 07:39 PM)


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OfflineFreeWorldOrder
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Re: bulk substrate sterilization. [Re: jesuisravi]
    #21950990 - 07/16/15 08:55 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

jesuisravi said:
Quote:

The shroomy 1 said:
In my experience.... PROPER PASTEURIZATION and "CLEAN SPAWN" is a recipe for success.




Proper pasteurization? How is that done with manure and straw and coffee grounds? You will say, Look it up! I have. There again, Doctors differ.




Easy, put it in quart jars or even a pillowcase in a stockpot of water.
I heat it up until the internal temp of the jars reaches about 130 on a digital thermometer. Then I turn the burner down till its almost off. I periodically check the temp of the jars. Don't want to go over 170... I try to not to let them go over 160 but over 170 it may start to sterilize. I usually heat in the 130-160f temp range for about 90min.

Have fun experimenting... you will soon see what we are talking about when it comes to using sterilized manure or straw.

Just trying to help by sharing tried and true methods with knowledge acquired through our own experience with these materials.

Good luck... :thumbup:


--------------------
"They who can give up essential liberty, to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

Lets Grow Mushrooms Videos
PastyWhyte's Easy Agar TEK
Agar's Liquid Inoculant TEK


Edited by FreeWorldOrder (07/16/15 08:57 AM)


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InvisibleGrey
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Re: bulk substrate sterilization. [Re: FreeWorldOrder]
    #21951051 - 07/16/15 09:16 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I sterilize my cvg at the same time I sterilize my grain. It works well.


--------------------


:takingnotes:  AMU Q&A  :takingnotes:


If you don't have a plan of your own, you'll become a part of somebody else's.


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: bulk substrate sterilization. [Re: jesuisravi]
    #21951058 - 07/16/15 09:17 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

jesuisravi said:
It is funny how the doctors differ on the subject of whether to sterize bulk substrate or not.On this site sterilization of bulk sub is powerfully frowned upon. Other places people are either not sure or advise that it always be done. I know the reasons for and against. I do it because it has worked for me. It is supposed to promote contaminations. I haven't seen that. My experience is very limited, however, so my words should be weighed accordingly.

I will continue sterilizing until my results teach me to do otherwise.




Probably has a lot to do with individual growing conditions.  Some people may have higher mold spore count in their homes than others.  Dryer vs more humid climate, etc.  When I lived in Hawaii, the contam issue was off the charts.  Now, in the desert, not nearly as much of a problem.  I've moved to the tek's where contams are a very low likelihood, but if you go with bulk, then it's a real issue.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: bulk substrate sterilization. [Re: Grey]
    #21951093 - 07/16/15 09:29 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Grey said:
I sterilize my cvg at the same time I sterilize my grain. It works well.



I've heard more than a dozen times sterilized cvg is better than pasteurized, even pasty says so. However if you sterilize manure/straw/etc. you're in for a world of contaminations.


--------------------
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Invisibleinsanemike

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Re: bulk substrate sterilization. [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #21951104 - 07/16/15 09:32 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

With my last two pe trays, I decided to sterilize my hpoo and straw pellets. The first time I ended up with trich and had to fruit it outside. With my new tray, it is just about fully colonized with no sign of contamination. I believe dirty spawn may have been the culprit the first time around. Both trays were spawned in front of a flow hood though. I lack confidence in spawning to sterilized substrate in open air so more power to anyone who does and gets away with it.


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: bulk substrate sterilization. [Re: insanemike]
    #21951125 - 07/16/15 09:37 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

its perfectly fine to spawn to sterilized manure as long as it isnt done in open air. think mudabottles.

this thread is somewhat confusing as OP just says "bulk sub", and some think manure while others think coir.


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InvisibleMudaFuka
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Re: bulk substrate sterilization. [Re: spacechildo] * 1
    #21951156 - 07/16/15 09:45 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Pasteurisation of CVG is pointless. The whole point of pasteurisation is to kill harmful microbes while leaving the beneficial ones alive to protect your substrate from contaminants while it colonises. Coir doesn't contain any beneficial microbes to begin with. So pasteurising it does nothing. With coir all you need to do is cook it so it is more easilly digested by your mycelium. Sterilization cooks it more and as a result works better. Pasteurize everything else though. You may get away with sterilised manure or straw frome time to time but it will bite you in the ass more often than not. I find oven or bucket pasteurisation to be much easier than stove top pasteurisation.

Like space said if you are not spawning in open air you can sterilise everything. This is handy since it Letts you add a lot more nutrition.


--------------------
AMU
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Edited by MudaFuka (07/16/15 09:47 AM)


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Offlinehamloaf
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Re: bulk substrate sterilization. [Re: MudaFuka]
    #21951225 - 07/16/15 10:01 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

When spawning fully colonized grains to a bulk substrate pasteurization generally is used. 

Bulk substrate materials are generally sterilized when they are intended to be fruited out of the media vessel like saw dust blocks, and/or sterilized manure substrates fortified with grains for some invitro, and or green house fruitings.  Keep sterilized substrates blocks & bottles closed until full colonization is reached.

Once cool thing about inoculating sterilized bulk substrates in bags over jars is that sterilized substrate bags can be inoculated with grain spawn.  With the bottle tek you are confined to a liquid inoculation of sorts (LC, LI, slurries).


--------------------

   
How I Get Stuff done. - My Reference Guide. - My Grows.


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InvisibleMudaFuka
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Re: bulk substrate sterilization. [Re: hamloaf]
    #21951246 - 07/16/15 10:05 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Pasty has inoculated bottle subs with millet spawn and I inoculate sawdust bottles with wheat and out spawn.


--------------------
AMU
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Edited by MudaFuka (07/16/15 10:05 AM)


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Invisibleinsanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
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Re: bulk substrate sterilization. [Re: hamloaf]
    #21951257 - 07/16/15 10:09 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

hamloaf said:
When spawning fully colonized grains to a bulk substrate pasteurization generally is used. 

Bulk substrate materials are generally sterilized when they are intended to be fruited out of the media vessel like saw dust blocks, and/or sterilized manure substrates fortified with grains for some invitro, and or green house fruitings.  Keep sterilized substrates blocks & bottles closed until full colonization is reached.

Once cool thing about inoculating sterilized bulk substrates in bags over jars is that sterilized substrate bags can be inoculated with grain spawn.  With the bottle tek you are confined to a liquid inoculation of sorts (LC, LI, slurries).




The bold is not true. I inoculate muda bottles successfully all the time with colonized grain. I prefer it over any other inoculant type I have used for them bottles. I have tried noc'ing up bottles with pf slurry, lc and li and have come to the conclusion that slighlty hydrated rice spawn colonizes muda bottles the quickest (7-10 days) with 1/2 cup of rice. I use 75ml of sterilized water per 3 cups of rice spawn.


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