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germish
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Do chemical fertilizers herbicides or pesticides pose an issue
#21946411 - 07/15/15 08:52 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I know that they can be used for soil remediation after certain spills and other similar things. So is there an issue with the grass sp I've been picking being all pumped up with some nasty round up? I'm picking out of a soccer field so it's not like it's a manure pile in my friends back yard or my lawn for that matter. I guess there is always that risk we take but if no one answers no one knows.
-------------------- Too much clockwork, not enough cogs
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AIRDOG



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Posts: 3,493
Loc: world's shroom capital
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Re: Do chemical fertilizers herbicides or pesticides pose an issue [Re: germish]
#21946427 - 07/15/15 08:57 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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if it was a field that you know was sprayed I would stay away
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RuralAnomaly
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Re: Do chemical fertilizers herbicides or pesticides pose an issue [Re: germish]
#21946463 - 07/15/15 09:07 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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well, roundup (glycophosphate) is used to kill things so you won't find it on soccer fields lol
as for fertilizers and other broadleaf killers they might apply, its my opinion (and mind you just that) that compared to other means of ingesting these same substances, if you eat a few grams of mushrooms you've culled its not going to be in any way significant. you probably get as much or more from your fruits and vegies as you would from mushroom fruits which are formed quickly and wouldn't really 'accumulate' stuff either.
as far as eating them... first, you're not doing it habitually to accumulate any levels that aren't already cleared by you doing what your body does normally to get rid of stuff. secondly, typically compounds that affect plants don't affect us. Pesticides are a lot more toxic to humans than herbicides in small quantities.
i personally do not let it bother me, but of course use reason. if you SMELL the odor of something that's been applied recently or see granules, you might pass on that patch but common sense also might suggest that if they let kids play on it, its not likely poisonous.
-------------------- bite my basidiocarp
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Byrain

Registered: 01/07/10
Posts: 9,664
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Re: Do chemical fertilizers herbicides or pesticides pose an issue [Re: RuralAnomaly]
#21946494 - 07/15/15 09:17 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Please do not spread misinformation, its common knowledge that several species will accumulate toxins in their mycelium and release these toxins in their fruiting bodies. As for what potential toxins you have to worry about, it seems to be species dependent. One example would be that Gymnopus dryophilus is known to accumulate mercury.
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RuralAnomaly
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Re: Do chemical fertilizers herbicides or pesticides pose an issue [Re: Byrain]
#21946745 - 07/15/15 10:46 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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and how many of those do you eat? if you live downwind of a coal burning utility plant, i guaaaaaarantee everything you contact is peppered with mercury please do not confuse reality with perception.
even if you were eating mushrooms that happened to bioaccumulate heavy metals, you'd still need to eat shitloads for it to have negative effects, its not like you're eating grams of the stuff.
please do not chastise me with hyperbole if you can point to some science that shows the species he's probably is interested in accumulating toxins in soccerfields, then i do stand corrected. until then, i stand by my statement, which is expressed as opinion. edit since i'm here, i'll add that pesticides are a real concern since many are basically based on neurotoxins, and very small amounts can be pretty bad for you.
http://www.nrdc.org/health/effects/mercury/sources.asp
-------------------- bite my basidiocarp
Edited by RuralAnomaly (07/15/15 10:57 AM)
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Byrain

Registered: 01/07/10
Posts: 9,664
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Re: Do chemical fertilizers herbicides or pesticides pose an issue [Re: RuralAnomaly]
#21946842 - 07/15/15 11:14 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Seems like pretty simple reasoning to me, pesticides contaminate water sources, mycelium accumulates water and mushrooms consist of mostly water.
But anyways, here you go.
http://cdn.intechopen.com/pdfs-wm/45263.pdf http://www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/abs/10.1139/m68-181 http://ecowatch.com/2014/01/23/mushrooms-bioremedation-clean-pesticides-waterways/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6999754
Unfortunately some of those links are only abstracts...
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RuralAnomaly
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Re: Do chemical fertilizers herbicides or pesticides pose an issue [Re: Byrain]
#21947120 - 07/15/15 12:25 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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i think you're making my point quite nicely.
all these things are ubiquitous in our modern environment, so worrying about what one might consider 'normal' situations is pretty pointless.
you do realize that if you're drinking municipal water, it ain't JUST water? they don't filter out jack shit hardly, chemically, they just add ozone or chlorine to kill whats there make it clear and send it up the pipes.
and again, making the argument that mushrooms consist mostly of water is a red herring in my opinion, apples do too. as do we. it doesn't mean that everything absorbs everything just because its around. thats why we're a big bag of membranes.
i'm not saying that there's absolutely no absorbtion, or that certain species aren't prone to do it under circumstances that allow toxins to concentrate (dumps, mines, run-off issues etc) what i am saying is (in my modestly educated opinion) that the concentration of these items in a handful of grass-grown mushrooms does not rise to the level of major concern in what can be construed as a public space in modern america. stay away from playgrounds with treated lumber if you want, but again, measure the bio-available arsenic in the background, or your water, and you'll see its there too.
i understand trying to scare people off eating unidentified mushrooms, but trying to scare them about fertilizer or normal substances is different.
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Byrain

Registered: 01/07/10
Posts: 9,664
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Re: Do chemical fertilizers herbicides or pesticides pose an issue [Re: RuralAnomaly]
#21947229 - 07/15/15 12:49 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Woke up on the wrong side of the bed? I'm not trying to scare anyone, I just don't want to spend time correcting the mistakes someone else made when the misinfo gets spread further. Just look at what SubbedHunter's guide has done. It took ages to get past the lines one the stem being in a spiral or not...
Pesticides are a serious concern though, in the way they end up in the water supply and wreak havoc on the ecosystem. Frogs and other aquatic amphibians are a great example of this... There is evidence all over google, I spent 5 minutes finding those links. Not to mention that they kill beneficial species as well as the pest species which just leaves the more resistant pests with no predators or competition and lots of food. Then in following seasons these traits are the ones that are largely passed on which will just make the pesticides have diminishing effects as time progresses to the point they will be doing worse than if they had no pesticides and just let natural predators do the work.
Quote:
RuralAnomaly said: it doesn't mean that everything absorbs everything just because its around.
Uhh, mycelium does.... Plants do as well.
Quote:
RuralAnomaly said: i'm not saying that there's absolutely no absorbtion, or that certain species aren't prone to do it under circumstances that allow toxins to concentrate (dumps, mines, run-off issues etc) what i am saying is (in my modestly educated opinion) that the concentration of these items in a handful of grass-grown mushrooms does not rise to the level of major concern in what can be construed as a public space in modern america.
Perhaps with limited exposure, the harm is minimal and I'm not sure the studies have been done to know if lot of species on lawn turfs are are prone to this and to what level. I understand Coprinellus micaceus might be one that picks up stuff you don't want to consume. Though the point of my post was not to demonstrate the level of danger, just that environmental toxins do and will end up in the mushroom fruiting bodies. If that is a concern is up to the individual to decide, I just hope they have all the available facts before making this decision.
Ideally the solution would be to reduce the amount of environmental toxins, sadly that is easier said than done...
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Alan Rockefeller
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Re: Do chemical fertilizers herbicides or pesticides pose an issue [Re: germish]
#21947545 - 07/15/15 02:07 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
germish said: I know that they can be used for soil remediation after certain spills and other similar things. So is there an issue with the grass sp I've been picking being all pumped up with some nasty round up? I'm picking out of a soccer field so it's not like it's a manure pile in my friends back yard or my lawn for that matter. I guess there is always that risk we take but if no one answers no one knows.
You have nothing to worry about. Mushrooms filter out toxins other than heavy metals, and you would need to eat pounds and pounds of mushrooms from a heavily contaminated site for years to have any effect from heavy metals.
The only known poisoning from eating contaminated mushrooms was a guy who ate morels from an arsenic contaminated apple orchard every year. Pesticides and fertilizers are nothing to worry about as they aren't very toxic and are unlikely to be found in the mushroom.
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Signeg


Registered: 06/09/12
Posts: 1,545
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Re: Do chemical fertilizers herbicides or pesticides pose an issue [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#21949277 - 07/15/15 08:40 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I disagree about them not being very toxic. This shit will kill the bee population, pesticides and herbicides and fungicides are all toxic IMO. "Are you ready to drink one glass of glyphosate?"
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germish
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Re: Do chemical fertilizers herbicides or pesticides pose an issue [Re: Signeg]
#21949957 - 07/15/15 11:31 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Lol you guys are funny sometimes.. Thanks for the good answers though! I kind of figured a few grams of pans out of the weedy soccer field just the same if not better than a few grams of ps. cyan out of your random street side planter they don't grow slow and they are small and mostly water. Plus I'll sweat that shit out while I'm frying anyway more than likely. No I'm not down wind from the power plant or the mine which would be much more concerning issues agreed. Unless I saw the guy out in his tractor spraying away I think I should be ok.
-------------------- Too much clockwork, not enough cogs
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germish
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Re: Do chemical fertilizers herbicides or pesticides pose an issue [Re: germish]
#21949991 - 07/15/15 11:34 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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You wouldn't need one glass of it hardly and the problem as far as killing everything with the glyphs is more than likely improper mixture or application. I was just using the round up as a generic example, I'm not super educated but I know some stuff.
-------------------- Too much clockwork, not enough cogs
Edited by germish (07/15/15 11:37 PM)
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

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Re: Do chemical fertilizers herbicides or pesticides pose an issue [Re: Signeg]
#21951567 - 07/16/15 11:32 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Signeg said: I disagree about them not being very toxic. This shit will kill the bee population, pesticides and herbicides and fungicides are all toxic IMO. "Are you ready to drink one glass of glyphosate?"
My friend drank one glass of standard dilution glyphosate to see if it was toxic - he suffered no ill effects.
Glyphosate is one of the least toxic herbacides ever manufactured.
The pesticides that are killing bees are not the ones used in lawns / cities, and are nontoxic to humans.
The fertilizers used in lawns are relatively nontoxic salts, so I am not sure what exactly there is to be paranoid about?
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germish
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Re: Do chemical fertilizers herbicides or pesticides pose an issue [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#21954314 - 07/16/15 11:27 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I wouldn't drink it period but I would think it would make you pretty sick in the concentrated form. I've never tried nor looked at the accidental? ingestion label though. Haha oops I accidentally drank half this bottle of RTU. Right? I guess if you are a blind alcoholic looking for your stash in the gardening cabinet. I just follow the use instructions.
-------------------- Too much clockwork, not enough cogs
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germish
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Re: Do chemical fertilizers herbicides or pesticides pose an issue [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#21954319 - 07/16/15 11:28 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Not trying to be a smart ass I'm just kinda stoned and it made me laugh..
-------------------- Too much clockwork, not enough cogs
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Signeg


Registered: 06/09/12
Posts: 1,545
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Re: Do chemical fertilizers herbicides or pesticides pose an issue [Re: germish]
#21962560 - 07/18/15 09:51 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Haha yeah.
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Gilzman
Strangerthanfriction

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Re: Do chemical fertilizers herbicides or pesticides pose an issue [Re: Signeg]
#21962823 - 07/18/15 11:15 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Are there any radiated fields here that are not deserts? Maybe Washington State?
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/radiation-helps-fungi-grow/
-------------------- The more I see mushrooms, the more I see mushrooms. I swear it gets into you.
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stevo

Registered: 04/11/05
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Re: Do chemical fertilizers herbicides or pesticides pose an issue *DELETED* [Re: Gilzman]
#21963061 - 07/19/15 12:11 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Post deleted by stevo
Reason for deletion: .
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Alan Rockefeller
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Re: Do chemical fertilizers herbicides or pesticides pose an issue [Re: stevo]
#21963140 - 07/19/15 12:33 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
stevo said: Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:
My friend drank one glass of standard dilution glyphosate to see if it was toxic - he suffered no ill effects.
Your friend is an idiot.
He is actually one of the smartest people I know, and got me started DNA sequencing mushrooms on my own.
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Signeg


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Re: Do chemical fertilizers herbicides or pesticides pose an issue [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#21963171 - 07/19/15 12:47 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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crazy then?
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confuzzed
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Re: Do chemical fertilizers herbicides or pesticides pose an issue [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#21963258 - 07/19/15 01:23 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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The glyphosate point is moot in regards to the grass... It was created to allow for mono-culture, as in no need for weeding... Not something that would get put on a soccer field..
As Alan stated anything given to a "grass" area is mostly salts. Changing the pH of the soil even a little will weed out many other grasses, allowing the one they intend to grow... no real need for much "herbicides" and there is no reason to give grass a pesticide... I've never heard of a devastating "grass" beetle. Grubs maybe, but that's larvae and usually easy to rid. Don't require mass pesticiding... maybe just once a year... no room for much accumulation.
without any drastic environmental source point of pollution around, that grass is probably one of the safer mush environments IMHO.
Edited by confuzzed (07/19/15 10:36 AM)
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karode13
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Re: Do chemical fertilizers herbicides or pesticides pose an issue [Re: confuzzed]
#21963279 - 07/19/15 01:33 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
As Alan stated anything given to a "grass" area is mostly salts.
What about people who pick from wood chipped landscape areas that are sprayed with Glyphosate.
Quote:
no real need for much "herbicides" and there is no reason to give grass a pesticide...
Sports fields and other recreational grass areas are often sprayed with Broad leafed Herbicides to stop broad leafed weeds from growing. Also fungicides are applied in cooler months to control rusts and other fungi that attacks grass. Imidacloprid is also applied to grass fields to control insects, like the grub larvae, this is a systemic insecticide that is not safe to use on food crops.
My experience is 10+ years working in the Horticultural sector in 2 different countries. Recreational grass fields and golf courses are probably the most toxic places to pick from in my opinion. They are highly managed with herbicide and pesticide regimes in force year round.
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stevo

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Re: Do chemical fertilizers herbicides or pesticides pose an issue *DELETED* [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#21963308 - 07/19/15 01:54 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Post deleted by stevo
Reason for deletion: .
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Gilzman
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Re: Do chemical fertilizers herbicides or pesticides pose an issue [Re: stevo]
#21963917 - 07/19/15 09:14 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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-------------------- The more I see mushrooms, the more I see mushrooms. I swear it gets into you.
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confuzzed
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Re: Do chemical fertilizers herbicides or pesticides pose an issue [Re: karode13]
#21964228 - 07/19/15 10:35 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sports fields and other recreational grass areas are often sprayed with Broad leafed Herbicides to stop broad leafed weeds from growing. Also fungicides are applied in cooler months to control rusts and other fungi that attacks grass. Imidacloprid is also applied to grass fields to control insects, like the grub larvae, this is a systemic insecticide that is not safe to use on food crops.
My experience is 10+ years working in the Horticultural sector in 2 different countries. Recreational grass fields and golf courses are probably the most toxic places to pick from in my opinion. They are highly managed with herbicide and pesticide regimes in force year round.
That's crazy man. I have played soccer most of my life. I have also maintained fields for recreational leagues as well as helped maintain my college soccer field. (not for free of course )
We never put anything of the sort on our fields. I did not know people did this. I have seen this done on golf courses, but not on a soccer field.
We only ever insecticide if grubs appeared. Same thing had a built-in fungicide, but we may have done this once every year or two...
News to me. Thanks for the information.
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germish
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Re: Do chemical fertilizers herbicides or pesticides pose an issue [Re: confuzzed]
#21968261 - 07/20/15 12:06 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yeah I have the feeling he is a pretty smart guy but he might have some bat shit crazy friends as it seems he has spent a lot of time studying hallucinogenic mushrooms.
-------------------- Too much clockwork, not enough cogs
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germish
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Re: Do chemical fertilizers herbicides or pesticides pose an issue [Re: germish]
#21968289 - 07/20/15 12:17 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I did see their aerator machine and it has hoppers for some granules. There is a big playground right in the center and I've never seen them spray anything. Just because I haven't seen them spraying doesn't mean they don't but I'm guessing it's some dry herbicide/fertilizer. The fields are not weed free by far but dandelions are none existent on the playing field.
-------------------- Too much clockwork, not enough cogs
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germish
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Re: Do chemical fertilizers herbicides or pesticides pose an issue [Re: germish]
#21968309 - 07/20/15 12:24 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Or should I say dry plant killing stuff in granulated form? Perhaps herbicide is too narrow of a definition.
-------------------- Too much clockwork, not enough cogs
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karode13
Tāne Mahuta




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Re: Do chemical fertilizers herbicides or pesticides pose an issue [Re: confuzzed]
#21968710 - 07/20/15 01:13 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
confuzzed said:
That's crazy man. I have played soccer most of my life. I have also maintained fields for recreational leagues as well as helped maintain my college soccer field. (not for free of course )
We never put anything of the sort on our fields. I did not know people did this. I have seen this done on golf courses, but not on a soccer field.
We only ever insecticide if grubs appeared. Same thing had a built-in fungicide, but we may have done this once every year or two...
News to me. Thanks for the information.
Not all sports fields are heavily managed, and some are only managed once a problem comes up. Often times they aren't at all. The higher end fields and Golf courses will be heavily managed and product applied on a regular basis. Those sorts of places don't look like that without lots of Agri chemicals and diligence from the workers. If it's just an empty grass lot down the street then chances of it having products applied are slim to none.
I only popped in here to give people some food for thought. I didn't like the responses people were giving.
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germish
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Re: Do chemical fertilizers herbicides or pesticides pose an issue [Re: karode13]
#21982642 - 07/22/15 11:57 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Oh on further inspection the hoppers get filled with sand which is dumped while they aerate the fields. Is pretty cool ass little implement I think.
-------------------- Too much clockwork, not enough cogs
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RuralAnomaly
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Re: Do chemical fertilizers herbicides or pesticides pose an issue [Re: germish]
#21982748 - 07/23/15 12:24 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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i guess the way to clear this up is to make an outside control patch and another patch that you pile on the herbicides, then send both fruits to the mass spec and gas chromatography and see what pops out.
anyone want to start the crowdsourcing to raise funds? 
nice to see this is still alive after a few days vacation lol
i'd still put money on 'no difference' within standard deviation, and of course if they put on fungicides, well you're not going to be finding anything anyway, right?
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Gilzman
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Re: Do chemical fertilizers herbicides or pesticides pose an issue [Re: RuralAnomaly]
#21983312 - 07/23/15 06:40 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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It is my personal thinking, but I do not eat any mushroom raw. My reading says that even plain ediddybles need to be cooked to get the nutritional value. And since I, and most people, suffer from Vitamin D deficiency, mushrooms are a part of my diet.
In the case of actives, I dry everything and reconstitute in a hot tea. I doubt that there is much good in the water content that has come from being sucked up by the ground. I suppose home-grown might be OK, since the actual growing media and water are controlled. But drying might have effects on the actual active components. But still, by personal taste, I would rather consume after drying. No way I am picking a mushroom off an animal turd and putting it in my mouth.
A possible investigation route might be to read up on the organic store mushrooms and claims they make as far as pesticides in 'regular' store-bought mushrooms. Its a big industry that is self-sourced, and they may have some data. Otherwise, a 'cheap' test is to just get a bunch of Pan Foes (not hard to source), squeeze the water out of them, and send that water to be analyzed.
I sort of suspect, and these discussions seem to have a bit of speculation, that 'lawn' mushrooms might actually do better in a treated environment. That is, they are benefiting by the elimination of other competitors. They like us and want to be near us. They love our chemistry and want to share theirs. I think in the future, they will develop little mouths and primitive vocal chords, they will scream out from the lawns..."STOP CHOPPING MY CAPS OFF WITH THAT LAWNMOWER!!!"...
Anyway, time for a walk.
-------------------- The more I see mushrooms, the more I see mushrooms. I swear it gets into you.
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Gilzman
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Re: Do chemical fertilizers herbicides or pesticides pose an issue [Re: RuralAnomaly]
#21983618 - 07/23/15 08:38 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
RuralAnomaly said:
i'd still put money on 'no difference' within standard deviation, and of course if they put on fungicides, well you're not going to be finding anything anyway, right?
Depends on the fungicide. Commercial mushroom growers spray fungicide on the mushrooms to target predatory fungus.
An interesting read...
https://austorganic.wordpress.com/2013/12/10/the-business-of-organic-mushrooms/
-------------------- The more I see mushrooms, the more I see mushrooms. I swear it gets into you.
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RuralAnomaly
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Re: Do chemical fertilizers herbicides or pesticides pose an issue [Re: Gilzman]
#21983838 - 07/23/15 09:44 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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again, this is specialized and targeted and in a non-wild environment, and apparently the edibles don't absorb significant amounts or it wouldn't be allowed even for non-organics.
very interesting article though, thanks for the link.
the municipalities around here seem to have issues paying for salt and keeping the roads cleared and paved, so i'm not so much worried they're spending money applying anything on local fields they're just mowing to keep weeds down and things looking tidy.
i think this just boils down to common sense and not seeing boogiemen when there are none. i don't go to state parks that are 'reclaimed mining land' because generally i follow creeks, and who knows what shit is leaching out of those and there are more places to go than time to go to them.
and since i'm not eating gobs of them, if i find something 'interesting' on a golf course, its coming home.
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germish
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Re: Do chemical fertilizers herbicides or pesticides pose an issue [Re: RuralAnomaly]
#21987889 - 07/24/15 12:00 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Gobs. Nice, I wish I had a gob of them it might be 2.5 grams and I always dry them and almost always tea off anymore. My stomach is an asshole. I agree! I should eat them anyhow! I like to eat what I find much better than to find what I eat. But it's harder to find what I eat than to eat it. Hmmm perhaps if I say I would rather find them than to ever eat cubes again I'll go with being dry until I find more. I found a cyan patch last year that keeps me straight for at least the whole year so I'm not worried about getting off. But they all hit me a bit differently as well plus it's one more species in my area checked off the list. Now I just need a scope so I can learn how to properly ID stuff that way.
-------------------- Too much clockwork, not enough cogs
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Signeg


Registered: 06/09/12
Posts: 1,545
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Re: Do chemical fertilizers herbicides or pesticides pose an issue [Re: germish]
#21997547 - 07/25/15 10:16 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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What i would say is that without observing the study yourself theres no way of knowing if what you've heard is right or wrong. There are arguments on both sides, and studies from both sides. Monsanto have been caught on multiple occasions, they were convicted of lying about Glyphosate. Many scientists who have reviewed their research have declared it tobacco science. There are studies saying it's carcinogenic and studies saying it isn't. When Monsanto is involved it's a bad idea IMO and definitely worth avoiding. It's just common sense really. And science is full of propaganda these days.
Edited by Signeg (07/25/15 10:18 PM)
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