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germish
Stranger



Registered: 11/12/13
Posts: 377
Loc: PNW WA
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
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Do chemical fertilizers herbicides or pesticides pose an issue
#21946411 - 07/15/15 08:52 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I know that they can be used for soil remediation after certain spills and other similar things. So is there an issue with the grass sp I've been picking being all pumped up with some nasty round up? I'm picking out of a soccer field so it's not like it's a manure pile in my friends back yard or my lawn for that matter. I guess there is always that risk we take but if no one answers no one knows.
-------------------- Too much clockwork, not enough cogs
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AIRDOG



Registered: 10/16/99
Posts: 3,493
Loc: world's shroom capital
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Re: Do chemical fertilizers herbicides or pesticides pose an issue [Re: germish]
#21946427 - 07/15/15 08:57 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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if it was a field that you know was sprayed I would stay away
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RuralAnomaly
Sporadic



Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 2,153
Loc: Spitzenkörper Ohio
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Re: Do chemical fertilizers herbicides or pesticides pose an issue [Re: germish]
#21946463 - 07/15/15 09:07 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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well, roundup (glycophosphate) is used to kill things so you won't find it on soccer fields lol
as for fertilizers and other broadleaf killers they might apply, its my opinion (and mind you just that) that compared to other means of ingesting these same substances, if you eat a few grams of mushrooms you've culled its not going to be in any way significant. you probably get as much or more from your fruits and vegies as you would from mushroom fruits which are formed quickly and wouldn't really 'accumulate' stuff either.
as far as eating them... first, you're not doing it habitually to accumulate any levels that aren't already cleared by you doing what your body does normally to get rid of stuff. secondly, typically compounds that affect plants don't affect us. Pesticides are a lot more toxic to humans than herbicides in small quantities.
i personally do not let it bother me, but of course use reason. if you SMELL the odor of something that's been applied recently or see granules, you might pass on that patch but common sense also might suggest that if they let kids play on it, its not likely poisonous.
-------------------- bite my basidiocarp
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Byrain

Registered: 01/07/10
Posts: 9,664
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Re: Do chemical fertilizers herbicides or pesticides pose an issue [Re: RuralAnomaly]
#21946494 - 07/15/15 09:17 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Please do not spread misinformation, its common knowledge that several species will accumulate toxins in their mycelium and release these toxins in their fruiting bodies. As for what potential toxins you have to worry about, it seems to be species dependent. One example would be that Gymnopus dryophilus is known to accumulate mercury.
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RuralAnomaly
Sporadic



Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 2,153
Loc: Spitzenkörper Ohio
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Re: Do chemical fertilizers herbicides or pesticides pose an issue [Re: Byrain]
#21946745 - 07/15/15 10:46 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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and how many of those do you eat? if you live downwind of a coal burning utility plant, i guaaaaaarantee everything you contact is peppered with mercury please do not confuse reality with perception.
even if you were eating mushrooms that happened to bioaccumulate heavy metals, you'd still need to eat shitloads for it to have negative effects, its not like you're eating grams of the stuff.
please do not chastise me with hyperbole if you can point to some science that shows the species he's probably is interested in accumulating toxins in soccerfields, then i do stand corrected. until then, i stand by my statement, which is expressed as opinion. edit since i'm here, i'll add that pesticides are a real concern since many are basically based on neurotoxins, and very small amounts can be pretty bad for you.
http://www.nrdc.org/health/effects/mercury/sources.asp
-------------------- bite my basidiocarp
Edited by RuralAnomaly (07/15/15 10:57 AM)
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Byrain

Registered: 01/07/10
Posts: 9,664
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Re: Do chemical fertilizers herbicides or pesticides pose an issue [Re: RuralAnomaly]
#21946842 - 07/15/15 11:14 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Seems like pretty simple reasoning to me, pesticides contaminate water sources, mycelium accumulates water and mushrooms consist of mostly water.
But anyways, here you go.
http://cdn.intechopen.com/pdfs-wm/45263.pdf http://www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/abs/10.1139/m68-181 http://ecowatch.com/2014/01/23/mushrooms-bioremedation-clean-pesticides-waterways/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6999754
Unfortunately some of those links are only abstracts...
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RuralAnomaly
Sporadic



Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 2,153
Loc: Spitzenkörper Ohio
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Re: Do chemical fertilizers herbicides or pesticides pose an issue [Re: Byrain]
#21947120 - 07/15/15 12:25 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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i think you're making my point quite nicely.
all these things are ubiquitous in our modern environment, so worrying about what one might consider 'normal' situations is pretty pointless.
you do realize that if you're drinking municipal water, it ain't JUST water? they don't filter out jack shit hardly, chemically, they just add ozone or chlorine to kill whats there make it clear and send it up the pipes.
and again, making the argument that mushrooms consist mostly of water is a red herring in my opinion, apples do too. as do we. it doesn't mean that everything absorbs everything just because its around. thats why we're a big bag of membranes.
i'm not saying that there's absolutely no absorbtion, or that certain species aren't prone to do it under circumstances that allow toxins to concentrate (dumps, mines, run-off issues etc) what i am saying is (in my modestly educated opinion) that the concentration of these items in a handful of grass-grown mushrooms does not rise to the level of major concern in what can be construed as a public space in modern america. stay away from playgrounds with treated lumber if you want, but again, measure the bio-available arsenic in the background, or your water, and you'll see its there too.
i understand trying to scare people off eating unidentified mushrooms, but trying to scare them about fertilizer or normal substances is different.
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Byrain

Registered: 01/07/10
Posts: 9,664
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Re: Do chemical fertilizers herbicides or pesticides pose an issue [Re: RuralAnomaly]
#21947229 - 07/15/15 12:49 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Woke up on the wrong side of the bed? I'm not trying to scare anyone, I just don't want to spend time correcting the mistakes someone else made when the misinfo gets spread further. Just look at what SubbedHunter's guide has done. It took ages to get past the lines one the stem being in a spiral or not...
Pesticides are a serious concern though, in the way they end up in the water supply and wreak havoc on the ecosystem. Frogs and other aquatic amphibians are a great example of this... There is evidence all over google, I spent 5 minutes finding those links. Not to mention that they kill beneficial species as well as the pest species which just leaves the more resistant pests with no predators or competition and lots of food. Then in following seasons these traits are the ones that are largely passed on which will just make the pesticides have diminishing effects as time progresses to the point they will be doing worse than if they had no pesticides and just let natural predators do the work.
Quote:
RuralAnomaly said: it doesn't mean that everything absorbs everything just because its around.
Uhh, mycelium does.... Plants do as well.
Quote:
RuralAnomaly said: i'm not saying that there's absolutely no absorbtion, or that certain species aren't prone to do it under circumstances that allow toxins to concentrate (dumps, mines, run-off issues etc) what i am saying is (in my modestly educated opinion) that the concentration of these items in a handful of grass-grown mushrooms does not rise to the level of major concern in what can be construed as a public space in modern america.
Perhaps with limited exposure, the harm is minimal and I'm not sure the studies have been done to know if lot of species on lawn turfs are are prone to this and to what level. I understand Coprinellus micaceus might be one that picks up stuff you don't want to consume. Though the point of my post was not to demonstrate the level of danger, just that environmental toxins do and will end up in the mushroom fruiting bodies. If that is a concern is up to the individual to decide, I just hope they have all the available facts before making this decision.
Ideally the solution would be to reduce the amount of environmental toxins, sadly that is easier said than done...
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,276
Last seen: 1 hour, 41 minutes
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Re: Do chemical fertilizers herbicides or pesticides pose an issue [Re: germish]
#21947545 - 07/15/15 02:07 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
germish said: I know that they can be used for soil remediation after certain spills and other similar things. So is there an issue with the grass sp I've been picking being all pumped up with some nasty round up? I'm picking out of a soccer field so it's not like it's a manure pile in my friends back yard or my lawn for that matter. I guess there is always that risk we take but if no one answers no one knows.
You have nothing to worry about. Mushrooms filter out toxins other than heavy metals, and you would need to eat pounds and pounds of mushrooms from a heavily contaminated site for years to have any effect from heavy metals.
The only known poisoning from eating contaminated mushrooms was a guy who ate morels from an arsenic contaminated apple orchard every year. Pesticides and fertilizers are nothing to worry about as they aren't very toxic and are unlikely to be found in the mushroom.
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Signeg


Registered: 06/09/12
Posts: 1,545
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Re: Do chemical fertilizers herbicides or pesticides pose an issue [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#21949277 - 07/15/15 08:40 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I disagree about them not being very toxic. This shit will kill the bee population, pesticides and herbicides and fungicides are all toxic IMO. "Are you ready to drink one glass of glyphosate?"
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germish
Stranger



Registered: 11/12/13
Posts: 377
Loc: PNW WA
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
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Re: Do chemical fertilizers herbicides or pesticides pose an issue [Re: Signeg]
#21949957 - 07/15/15 11:31 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Lol you guys are funny sometimes.. Thanks for the good answers though! I kind of figured a few grams of pans out of the weedy soccer field just the same if not better than a few grams of ps. cyan out of your random street side planter they don't grow slow and they are small and mostly water. Plus I'll sweat that shit out while I'm frying anyway more than likely. No I'm not down wind from the power plant or the mine which would be much more concerning issues agreed. Unless I saw the guy out in his tractor spraying away I think I should be ok.
-------------------- Too much clockwork, not enough cogs
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germish
Stranger



Registered: 11/12/13
Posts: 377
Loc: PNW WA
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
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Re: Do chemical fertilizers herbicides or pesticides pose an issue [Re: germish]
#21949991 - 07/15/15 11:34 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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You wouldn't need one glass of it hardly and the problem as far as killing everything with the glyphs is more than likely improper mixture or application. I was just using the round up as a generic example, I'm not super educated but I know some stuff.
-------------------- Too much clockwork, not enough cogs
Edited by germish (07/15/15 11:37 PM)
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,276
Last seen: 1 hour, 41 minutes
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Re: Do chemical fertilizers herbicides or pesticides pose an issue [Re: Signeg]
#21951567 - 07/16/15 11:32 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Signeg said: I disagree about them not being very toxic. This shit will kill the bee population, pesticides and herbicides and fungicides are all toxic IMO. "Are you ready to drink one glass of glyphosate?"
My friend drank one glass of standard dilution glyphosate to see if it was toxic - he suffered no ill effects.
Glyphosate is one of the least toxic herbacides ever manufactured.
The pesticides that are killing bees are not the ones used in lawns / cities, and are nontoxic to humans.
The fertilizers used in lawns are relatively nontoxic salts, so I am not sure what exactly there is to be paranoid about?
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germish
Stranger



Registered: 11/12/13
Posts: 377
Loc: PNW WA
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
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Re: Do chemical fertilizers herbicides or pesticides pose an issue [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#21954314 - 07/16/15 11:27 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I wouldn't drink it period but I would think it would make you pretty sick in the concentrated form. I've never tried nor looked at the accidental? ingestion label though. Haha oops I accidentally drank half this bottle of RTU. Right? I guess if you are a blind alcoholic looking for your stash in the gardening cabinet. I just follow the use instructions.
-------------------- Too much clockwork, not enough cogs
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germish
Stranger



Registered: 11/12/13
Posts: 377
Loc: PNW WA
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
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Re: Do chemical fertilizers herbicides or pesticides pose an issue [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#21954319 - 07/16/15 11:28 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Not trying to be a smart ass I'm just kinda stoned and it made me laugh..
-------------------- Too much clockwork, not enough cogs
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Signeg


Registered: 06/09/12
Posts: 1,545
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Re: Do chemical fertilizers herbicides or pesticides pose an issue [Re: germish]
#21962560 - 07/18/15 09:51 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Haha yeah.
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Gilzman
Strangerthanfriction

Registered: 05/27/15
Posts: 285
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
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Re: Do chemical fertilizers herbicides or pesticides pose an issue [Re: Signeg]
#21962823 - 07/18/15 11:15 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Are there any radiated fields here that are not deserts? Maybe Washington State?
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/radiation-helps-fungi-grow/
-------------------- The more I see mushrooms, the more I see mushrooms. I swear it gets into you.
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stevo

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 5,100
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Re: Do chemical fertilizers herbicides or pesticides pose an issue *DELETED* [Re: Gilzman]
#21963061 - 07/19/15 12:11 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Post deleted by stevo
Reason for deletion: .
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,276
Last seen: 1 hour, 41 minutes
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Re: Do chemical fertilizers herbicides or pesticides pose an issue [Re: stevo]
#21963140 - 07/19/15 12:33 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
stevo said: Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:
My friend drank one glass of standard dilution glyphosate to see if it was toxic - he suffered no ill effects.
Your friend is an idiot.
He is actually one of the smartest people I know, and got me started DNA sequencing mushrooms on my own.
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Signeg


Registered: 06/09/12
Posts: 1,545
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Re: Do chemical fertilizers herbicides or pesticides pose an issue [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#21963171 - 07/19/15 12:47 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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crazy then?
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