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OfflinemotamanM
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Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong
    #21945969 - 07/15/15 06:10 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

http://www.hngn.com/articles/109422/20150715/flakka-hallucinogenic-designer-drug-already-sold-in-several-states-fbi-warns-street-drug-is-strong-and-dangerous.htm


Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong And Dangerous

Authorities still do not know what's in the drug, but flakka has already killed 25 people in Florida and is now present in six states so far.



Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong And Dangerous
Authorities still do not know what's in the drug, but flakka has already killed 25 people in Florida and is now present in six states so far.

By Rachel Cruz | Jul 15, 2015 01:10 AM EDT

Flakka Crackdown in Florida



A flakka crackdown is happening in Florida, as advised by the FBI. (Photo : Getty Images)

The synthetic designer drug flakka is already spreading in the streets of Illinois, Ohio, Texas, Kentucky, California and Florida, 10 TV reported.

The stimulant, which appear is similar to bath salts, can cause hallucinogenic effects that triggers psychotic breakdowns from its users. It leads them to become violent and suicidal.

In Florida, where the drug was first discovered, an 82-year-old grandmother was randomly killed by a man believed to be high on flakka. Several other users have also said that they could not remember what they were doing after taking the synthetic drug. A mother high on the drug abandoned her baby, while hallucinations led people have sex with trees because of flakka.

"I was completely out of my mind. I could have killed somebody. I could have killed myself," said Mike Haney from Chicago in the 10 TV report.

Authorities still do not know what's in the substance as its mixture is ever changing. Flakka can be smoked, swallowed or ingested. The chemical was already found concealed in e-cigarettes and have recently been discovered in gummi bear candies, according to CBS Miami.

The drug is sold ten times cheaper than drug cocktail Molly, according to CBS St. Louis, but the more pressing problem is that people who are buying it don't have any idea what they're in for.

"These synthetics drugs are made with chemicals that nobody knows what they are," says Bill Bergquist, the sheriff of Clay County, Fla., via Valley News Life. "And as soon as the government comes around and bans a certain chemical, well then they will go mix something else up to make a different chemical in this drug."

Florida has been made the "epicenter" as 25 deaths related to flakka were already reported. DEA Special agent Kevin Stanfill is heading the task force. "We have individuals high on flakka that are coming up to parents with their kids, trying to take their kids. They're not just getting high, they're going out and hurting other people. You don't see that with a lot of the other drugs like you are with flakka right now," Stanfill told news outlets.

Local police have been alerted by the FBI for this killer drug, which is now considered more dangerous than meth, bath salts and cocaine.


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OfflineMajickMuffin
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Registered: 05/28/14
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Loc: North
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Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: motaman]
    #21945976 - 07/15/15 06:13 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

"These synthetics drugs are made with chemicals that nobody knows what they are," says Bill Bergquist, the sheriff of Clay County, Fla

What fucking bullshit, lol. This is more bullshit propaganda against drugs.

"And as soon as the government comes around and bans a certain chemical, well then they will go mix something else up to make a different chemical in this drug."


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OfflineRebelutionsssss
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Registered: 07/23/14
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Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: MajickMuffin]
    #21945989 - 07/15/15 06:21 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

That's the stupidest article I've ever read


--------------------
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To define is to confine.


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OfflineMajickMuffin
Edible Cult


Registered: 05/28/14
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Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: Rebelutionsssss]
    #21945996 - 07/15/15 06:23 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Rebelutionsssss said:
That's the stupidest article I've ever read



Its the stupidest thing ive ever seen in my entire life


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OfflineRebelutionsssss
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Registered: 07/23/14
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Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: MajickMuffin]
    #21946022 - 07/15/15 06:36 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

"Have sex with trees" are they fucking a squirrels home in the tree?


--------------------
:
To define is to confine.


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OfflineMajickMuffin
Edible Cult


Registered: 05/28/14
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Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: Rebelutionsssss]
    #21946052 - 07/15/15 06:49 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Rebelutionsssss said:
"Have sex with trees" are they fucking a squirrels home in the tree?



Are they taking a shot at tree huggers?

Are they calling tree huggers drug users!?


Edited by MajickMuffin (07/15/15 06:50 AM)


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Invisibleazur
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Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: MajickMuffin]
    #21946114 - 07/15/15 07:14 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

There was an article a few months back where some guy in Florida was on flakka and was trying to fuck a tree


--------------------


A cube is NOT a cube.

FALL IN LOVE WITH LC
FOTTSE!!!
ALL NOOBS READ THIS!!!



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Invisiblesnakeskin68
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Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: azur]
    #21946197 - 07/15/15 07:48 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Wow... propaganda yet stupid kids are trying drugs on the pretense they are legal... legalize the non lethal ones to stop people from dying for fucks sake!!! Simple as that!!


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Invisibleazur
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Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: snakeskin68]
    #21946257 - 07/15/15 08:13 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Well the war on drugs could be won with basic economics. Supply and demand. Get rid of the demand and the supply will diminish. Education trumps prison. But then how would all the real criminals  (law enforcement) make a living.
It really pisses me off that cops say drugs are so bad, yet they're happy to pimp their rides with drug money.


--------------------


A cube is NOT a cube.

FALL IN LOVE WITH LC
FOTTSE!!!
ALL NOOBS READ THIS!!!



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Invisibletravelleler
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Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: azur]
    #21946300 - 07/15/15 08:23 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

cheaper than drug cocktail Molly, according to CBS St. Loui

/quote]

oh ok I ddint know molly was an admixture.  Thano god for accurate reporting.


--------------------




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:sun:Dreams are the fuel of the soul:sun:

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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: travelleler]
    #21946333 - 07/15/15 08:32 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

The FBI doesn't have access to a CG/MS lab?

How can they not know what it is?

(Even in the "shulgin index" sasha published the chromatography charts for most of these unknown psychedelic compounds, there's really no reason why they shouldn't know what this is...)

It bothers me when they say "we are cracking down on this compound, even though we don't know what it is..."

-E. Borodin


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: azur] * 3
    #21946437 - 07/15/15 09:00 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

azur said:
Well the war on drugs could be won with basic economics. Supply and demand. Get rid of the demand and the supply will diminish. Education trumps prison. But then how would all the real criminals  (law enforcement) make a living.
It really pisses me off that cops say drugs are so bad, yet they're happy to pimp their rides with drug money.




You will never get rid of the demand for drugs.

They did studies on a monkey population in Mexico, these monkeys would steal resort goers alcoholic drinks, and just like in human population some were drunks, some moderately drank, and some never drank at all....every animal species is going to have interest in altering its consciousness, it's 100% natural, and to try to say there's some wrong with people who use drugs is absurd.

Society needs to accept that a % of the population is always going to want to get high, you can't change that, it's nature. Rather than saying these people have moral issues or are criminals or monsters, society is going to have to come to terms with these facts and adjust their policy accordingly, non-users are going to have to accept that people have the right to experiment with their own conscious state (so long as they are not hurting anybody in the process)

We are going to have stop having to bow our heads and hide our stashs, and say "this is who we are, this is what we do, and if that doesn't jive with your political agenda, than maybe you need to change your agenda...

To think that people will simply not want to get high at some point in the future is a fantasy, and education has nothing to do with it. It's nature pure and simple, and by our going against nature all these problems arise.

The CIA and DEA are responsible for dealing cocaine and heroin in this country and across the globe. In Viet nam General pao and our anti-communist allies were notorious heroin dealers, so the CIA began selling heroin to fund them, because congress wouldn't. Before Iran contra the same thing, the CIA is caught selling cocaine to fund the contras...anytime our government needs large sums of untraceable cash to fund armies fighting our enemy's with out congressional approval they sell dangerous and addictive drugs...the war on drugs is working as it was designed to.

Now, what about psychedelics? They are not addictive, they are not big money makers, so why ban them? As a means of oppressing and harassing undesired elements in a culture....they can't make being a hippie illegal, so they make hippie practices and otherwise harmless customs illegal, like LSD....actually when the Spanish came to the new world they didn't like the non-Christian natives, and attacked them through their plant use as well...

I use marijuana,LSD,DMT,yage,mescaline, and psilocybe fungi, I'm not hurting anybody in my practice, including myself. These compounds play a great role in my spiritual practice and are a core part of who I am. Yet the system would say it's a crime to use these compounds, even though I've been constitutionally guaranteed the right to practice my religion without the government throwing me in prison...like mckenna said "if the words life , liberty and the pursuit of happiness don't include the freedom to alter your consciousness, than the constitution isn't worth the hemp it's written on"

-E. Borodin


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OfflineRebelutionsssss
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Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #21946604 - 07/15/15 10:01 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

:congrats: I love each an every one of your posts my man. And you're right on all counts with that post. The drug policy is fucked up in this country


--------------------
:
To define is to confine.


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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
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Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: Rebelutionsssss]
    #21946735 - 07/15/15 10:42 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I am not sure psychedelics are not addictive, how do you know?

Because science has not (with its very limited research) proven them addictive psychologically?

I've seen 100s of addicted people to psychedelics, weed, pharma pills

People get addicted to just about anything


I still believe they should be free


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OfflineNun
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Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #21946871 - 07/15/15 11:23 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
...
Now, what about psychedelics? They are not addictive, they are not big money makers, so why ban them? ...

-E. Borodin



Simple.
They can be abused, used to make people vulnerable.
If someone was handing out LSD to kids queuing for concerts/nightclubs it would be seriously questionable.

You could criminalise the "abuse of the drug on a third party" but that's harder to prove and you're waiting until it's too late.

Essentially there are too many scumbags around to legalise psychedelics.


--------------------
Real men don't need the toilet


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Onlinerxb
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Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: Nun]
    #21947126 - 07/15/15 12:27 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

why do people keep posting about flakka?


--------------------
->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]


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InvisibleOgla
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Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: rxb]
    #21947640 - 07/15/15 02:28 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

i keep seeing more and more news about flakka..  is it really that good? Should i consider trying it sometime?


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: Ogla]
    #21947782 - 07/15/15 02:54 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Okay FINALLY some light in the darknes, this from a government site:

Quote:

Use of a dangerous synthetic cathinone drug called alpha-pyrrolidinopentiophenone (alpha-PVP), popularly known as "Flakka," is surging in Florida




"flakka" is a nonsensical name for alpha-PVP, the shorter acting somewhat less potent brother of MDPV that lacks the methylenedioxy ring.

The asuthor of that story didnt even know what he was talking about and you just enter Flakka in Google and the first hit gives it.

Douchebag reporter.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here


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OfflineXTCentral
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Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: Asante]
    #21948029 - 07/15/15 03:42 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
Okay FINALLY some light in the darknes, this from a government site:

Quote:

Use of a dangerous synthetic cathinone drug called alpha-pyrrolidinopentiophenone (alpha-PVP), popularly known as "Flakka," is surging in Florida




"flakka" is a nonsensical name for alpha-PVP, the shorter acting somewhat less potent brother of MDPV that lacks the methylenedioxy ring.

The asuthor of that story didnt even know what he was talking about and you just enter Flakka in Google and the first hit gives it.

Douchebag reporter.




Yes, Flakka is A-PVP and the author simply does not know the difference between stimulants which can induce psychosis and hallucinogenics which induce a psychedelic experience.


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OfflineMajickMuffin
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Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #21948144 - 07/15/15 04:06 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
Quote:

azur said:
Well the war on drugs could be won with basic economics. Supply and demand. Get rid of the demand and the supply will diminish. Education trumps prison. But then how would all the real criminals  (law enforcement) make a living.
It really pisses me off that cops say drugs are so bad, yet they're happy to pimp their rides with drug money.




You will never get rid of the demand for drugs.

They did studies on a monkey population in Mexico, these monkeys would steal resort goers alcoholic drinks, and just like in human population some were drunks, some moderately drank, and some never drank at all....every animal species is going to have interest in altering its consciousness, it's 100% natural, and to try to say there's some wrong with people who use drugs is absurd.

Society needs to accept that a % of the population is always going to want to get high, you can't change that, it's nature. Rather than saying these people have moral issues or are criminals or monsters, society is going to have to come to terms with these facts and adjust their policy accordingly, non-users are going to have to accept that people have the right to experiment with their own conscious state (so long as they are not hurting anybody in the process)

We are going to have stop having to bow our heads and hide our stashs, and say "this is who we are, this is what we do, and if that doesn't jive with your political agenda, than maybe you need to change your agenda...

To think that people will simply not want to get high at some point in the future is a fantasy, and education has nothing to do with it. It's nature pure and simple, and by our going against nature all these problems arise.

The CIA and DEA are responsible for dealing cocaine and heroin in this country and across the globe. In Viet nam General pao and our anti-communist allies were notorious heroin dealers, so the CIA began selling heroin to fund them, because congress wouldn't. Before Iran contra the same thing, the CIA is caught selling cocaine to fund the contras...anytime our government needs large sums of untraceable cash to fund armies fighting our enemy's with out congressional approval they sell dangerous and addictive drugs...the war on drugs is working as it was designed to.

Now, what about psychedelics? They are not addictive, they are not big money makers, so why ban them? As a means of oppressing and harassing undesired elements in a culture....they can't make being a hippie illegal, so they make hippie practices and otherwise harmless customs illegal, like LSD....actually when the Spanish came to the new world they didn't like the non-Christian natives, and attacked them through their plant use as well...

I use marijuana,LSD,DMT,yage,mescaline, and psilocybe fungi, I'm not hurting anybody in my practice, including myself. These compounds play a great role in my spiritual practice and are a core part of who I am. Yet the system would say it's a crime to use these compounds, even though I've been constitutionally guaranteed the right to practice my religion without the government throwing me in prison...like mckenna said "if the words life , liberty and the pursuit of happiness don't include the freedom to alter your consciousness, than the constitution isn't worth the hemp it's written on"

-E. Borodin




Very well said :thatsaten:


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OfflineLuSiD enthusiast
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Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: XTCentral]
    #21948169 - 07/15/15 04:12 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I think its funny how all these new drugs that can't be tested for in a standar 5 panel test, are being thrown into any article with enough buzzwords.

Guy eats face.... Lets throw bath salt in there to make it interesting. How do we know he was on it? How do we know he wasn't on it? How do we know everyone isn't on it? Next day, MAN ON BATH SALTS EATS ANOTHER MANS FACE!(listen to flatbush zombies hit, face off for full details)

Naked, tree, sex.... lets throw that new drug in there whats it called? Idk. Well make up a name! Whats hot and happening right now? You intern, what are you bumping your head to? Man thats wakka flakka. YES, we call it flakka. Naked woman has sex with tree while high on flakka.(evidence still needed)


That's literally what has to happen in these press offices.


--------------------
I'm addicted to coke, weed, booze, ludes and speed.
Not LSD, you can't get addicted to LSD, it was built by scientists.

I ain't got no demons that gonna get woke.


In erowid we trust.

Just take your damn pills and don't ask any questions, you'll be fine.


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OfflinePsilocybinMan
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Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: LuSiD enthusiast]
    #21948254 - 07/15/15 04:34 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)



--------------------
🖨️🖥️🖱️📠👓🔬🔭
מאוד גבוה, האטמוספרה של כדור הארץ הופכת להיות דקה מאוד. האזור שבו האטומים ומולקולות לברוח לחלל נקרא אקסוםפירה. אקסוםפירה היא על גבי תרמוספירה.


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OfflineMi-Go
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Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: rxb]
    #21948470 - 07/15/15 05:24 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

rxb said:
why do people keep posting about flakka?




Seriously, waaay too many threads on flakka, we get it! That shit will make you fuck trees, eat faces, and get full blown psychosis in one puff.. Just stick to meth kids..


--------------------


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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: Nun]
    #21949598 - 07/15/15 10:06 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Nun said:
Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
...
Now, what about psychedelics? They are not addictive, they are not big money makers, so why ban them? ...

-E. Borodin



Simple.
They can be abused, used to make people vulnerable.
If someone was handing out LSD to kids queuing for concerts/nightclubs it would be seriously questionable.

You could criminalise the "abuse of the drug on a third party" but that's harder to prove and you're waiting until it's too late.

Essentially there are too many scumbags around to legalise psychedelics.




I probably have to agree with this...

The real politics they should spend time on is NEVER to jail people for victimless crimes

Never jail people for psychedelics unless they sold huge amounts, and never for long

Jail for life is insanity, they jail people for life for weed/psychedelics


I don't think they should be legal, I don't care about that, I don't think people would be able to respect them
Only a very open mind can respect these tools, how many open minds are there on earth?

Not even psychologists/psychiatrists may be responsible with these...
They may use them for fun before/after class , like anyone who is 25 of age or so


I'm not sure I would see anyone taking these, I like it somewhat the way it is now
Only some people take it, everybody knows everybody basically
People don't go spiking others because of this usually... , spiking drinks etc.

Fewer morons around than if they were 100% legal , with illegality comes extra responsibility often/extra thought about what you're doing

People carefully test their drugs, read up on them, take set,setting,dose carefully etc.

I like it the way it is now... I'm not sure what could happen if we legalized psychedelics,mdma etc.


Sure it may work, but it will cause fatalities too, should we just accept them?

It's society's duty to take care of irresponsible souls so they don't harm themselves/others


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OfflineMajickMuffin
Edible Cult


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Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: lessismore]
    #21950603 - 07/16/15 06:23 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Thats an interesting perspective 'Lessismore'


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic
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Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: Rebelutionsssss]
    #21950865 - 07/16/15 08:10 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Rebelutionsssss said:
:congrats: I love each an every one of your posts my man. And you're right on all counts with that post. The drug policy is fucked up in this country





Thank you, I appreciate it very much.

I always wanted to be a writer, so just knowing that people are actually reading some of the things I write make a big difference to me.

Thanks again,

-E. Borodin


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: lessismore] * 1
    #21951331 - 07/16/15 10:27 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

lessismore said:
I am not sure psychedelics are not addictive, how do you know?

Because science has not (with its very limited research) proven them addictive psychologically?

I've seen 100s of addicted people to psychedelics, weed, pharma pills

People get addicted to just about anything


I still believe they should be free




You say "they should be free" when psychedelic users are free. They are not bound to their psychedelic tools in any way, and at any time they may put down the tools and walk.away without consequence. The human body can not see distant planets with the naked eye so we built telescopes, just as the human body can not access these psychedelic states on its own so we use entheogens provided by our plant symbiote allies. There's no shame in using tools, in fact that's what a good deal of human intelligence is attributed to, our ability to use tools.

In your view we are addicted to these tools, but I don't feel we are any more addicted to entheogens than a carpenter is addicted to his wood-working tools, or than an astronaut is addicted to his space-craft, they are necessary means of this type of exploration. I'm actually glad that you must ingest the entheogen for these states to occur, it bonds humans with nature and our plant helpers/teachers, plus is gives grounding to the experience, psychologically a person would break if these states occured on their own

Psychedelics are not addictive. There is massive amounts of research confirming this. IM not going to list specific studies, because there are tons (Google "psychedelics cure addiction"
if you don't believe me) but if you are currant with MAPS or the heffter research institute or even the work of any big names in the field you should find ample amounts of evidence confirming that not only are the classic psychedelics not addictive, but they may in fact help treat the problem.

You say you have seen people addicted to weed and pharmaceutical pills, neither of which are classic psychedelics...(DMT,LSD,Psilocybin/psilocin, mescaline, harmine, etc.. are classics) though i do sometimes include marijuana as a classic, it's different in the sense that nature designated this compound for safe and effective daily medical use which can be stopped at any time without serious consequence. You can not become physically dependant to marijuana....but that's another topic all together.


Psychedelics can not cause physical dependence, the do not cause compulsive re-dosing, and they do not induce unexamined destructive compulsive behaviors.

In all actuality psychedelics break habits, they do not form them.

Due to rapid tolerance you must put 3-7 days between your psychedelic experiences anyway, thus making abuse exceedingly difficult.

There are people who can become psychologically dependant on anything, though in all actuality the classic psychedelics are very rarely seen abused even in this manor.

There's a very big difference between use and abuse, abusus non tollit usum, it means "Abuse does not preclude proper use"


The fact that a person uses psychedelics multiple times throughout there life does not indicate dependence or abuse.

I have had similar conversations with you on this matter on gotten no where, so I'm going cut this one short, and though we may have to agree to disagree I still feel you are grossly misinformed on the issue....

-E. Borodin


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OfflineOrgasmicBanana
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Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: azur] * 1
    #21951411 - 07/16/15 10:45 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

azur said:
There was an article a few months back where some guy in Florida was on flakka and was trying to fuck a tree



There was an article a couple months back about a guy who was on LSD who attacked a car with a katana and tried to have sex with a tree. "journalists" aren't even pretending to bother to make it seem like everything they write isn't made up, fuck them, fuck all the sheep who read their dumb shit fuck fox news and all news and america.

This article is retarded, someone deserves to get shot over this stupidity I cant decide who but... someone.


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: Nun]
    #21951477 - 07/16/15 11:04 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Nun said:
Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
...
Now, what about psychedelics? They are not addictive, they are not big money makers, so why ban them? ...

-E. Borodin



Simple.
They can be abused, used to make people vulnerable.
If someone was handing out LSD to kids queuing for concerts/nightclubs it would be seriously questionable.

You could criminalise the "abuse of the drug on a third party" but that's harder to prove and you're waiting until it's too late.

Essentially there are too many scumbags around to legalise psychedelics.




abusus non tollit usum


Abuse of the compounds is another issue we are going to have to accept and deal with,we can keep fighting these things and getting no where, or we can accept the facts of the matter and deal.with them in an intelligent and rational way.

....though in all actuality the only people to use psychedelics as chemical weapons was the CIA and the government who supposedly is trying to "protect" us from these things...the government caused victims, where the counter-culture really didn't hurt anybody, even in Ken kesey's acid test model negative incidents were minimal....even when abbie Hoffman was talking about"lace vs mace" the yippies had the moral conscience not to employ the tactic.

An abuse like the one you described above is actually more likely to happen when a compound is contraband, when compounds are illegal it motivates shifty hustlers to push them on people irresponsibly, where as if they were legal people wouldn't take drugs from people off the street, they would only take drugs from their trusted legal source.

The fact is that, yes, incidents are going to occur, and will have to be dealt with individually. We know this is going to happen just as we know that a percentage of people will.always want to use drugs an even smaller precent will want to Abuse them , we are going to.have to accept this and deal with it the best we can.

The potential Abuse of something should not preclude its proper use.

There are a large number of illegal drug users in society right now and society doesn't collapse, if all drugs were legalized tomorrow all the same people would still be using, it wouldn't be the end of the world, the only difference would involve the way we treat drug users and the methods by which they obtain their compounds.

It's human nature, and in my opinion, a basic human right to alter you own conscious state. By fighting human nature we are only exacerbating the issue.

If you have ever wondered why billions are spent on the drug war yet cocaine and heroin are available on every street corner the links below may be the tip of the ice-berg in explanation....These institutions have interest in these drugs being contraband (well at least the addictive and money making ones)
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_CIA_drug_trafficking

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_involvement_in_Contra_cocaine_trafficking

The links above are only two small examples of the government agencies that are keeping these drugs illegal are not doing so for our protection, but for their exploitation of these compounds and their ability to generate large sums of untraceable cash. If these compounds were legal they would loose most their value over-night, and the population of users would shrink back down to that percentage of people who would be using any way.

Prohibition gives way for abuse, during alcohol prohibition the popular drinks were hard alcohol, after prohibition beer became the drink of choice...it's sounds counter-intuitive, but legalization and regulation causes the numbers of users to drop, and the people who.are using begin to use in a more responsible manor.

Psychedelic mushrooms are sold in shops in Amsterdam, and yet you don't hear stories of "scum bags abusing them", you don't hear much at all, which is good, it means the community respectfully and responsibly uses their compounds without incident.

We can either keep fighting nature, and keep pretending we can make this issue go away, or we can handle it like educated and responsible adults and actually deal with the issue in a rational way. We must expect certain abuses, but I think people will find these things are a rare exception and not the rule, and if your use of any compound is hurting or bothering anybody you should be dealt with as an individual, you should be blamed not the compound...


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Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: lessismore]
    #21951506 - 07/16/15 11:12 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

lessismore said:
Quote:

Nun said:
Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
...
Now, what about psychedelics? They are not addictive, they are not big money makers, so why ban them? ...

-E. Borodin



Simple.
They can be abused, used to make people vulnerable.
If someone was handing out LSD to kids queuing for concerts/nightclubs it would be seriously questionable.

You could criminalise the "abuse of the drug on a third party" but that's harder to prove and you're waiting until it's too late.

Essentially there are too many scumbags around to legalise psychedelics.




I probably have to agree with this...

The real politics they should spend time on is NEVER to jail people for victimless crimes

Never jail people for psychedelics unless they sold huge amounts, and never for long

Jail for life is insanity, they jail people for life for weed/psychedelics


I don't think they should be legal, I don't care about that, I don't think people would be able to respect them
Only a very open mind can respect these tools, how many open minds are there on earth?

Not even psychologists/psychiatrists may be responsible with these...
They may use them for fun before/after class , like anyone who is 25 of age or so


I'm not sure I would see anyone taking these, I like it somewhat the way it is now
Only some people take it, everybody knows everybody basically
People don't go spiking others because of this usually... , spiking drinks etc.

Fewer morons around than if they were 100% legal , with illegality comes extra responsibility often/extra thought about what you're doing

People carefully test their drugs, read up on them, take set,setting,dose carefully etc.

I like it the way it is now... I'm not sure what could happen if we legalized psychedelics,mdma etc.


Sure it may work, but it will cause fatalities too, should we just accept them?

It's society's duty to take care of irresponsible souls so they don't harm themselves/others




The government isn't my mommy and daddy setting rules to keep me safe because they care about my well being
.
Its very troubling that so many people will so easily accept that the government "needs" make things like drugs legal or illegal (for society's own good) like we are fucking children. We are grown ass adults who can decide to cut our own dicks off if we want to. Fuck the government they have no say in what people do to themselves. Dealers don't cause harm that is fucking retarded. stop getting ethics and morals and how we should live mixed up with what the laws should be, this is fucking AMERICA no one even remembers the point of this country, its pathetic.


"keep them illegal so people RESPECT psychedelics"
"I don't care if they're legal"
"I like it when psychedelics are done this way"

In the USA, its definitely NOT society's duty to "take care of irresponsible souls so they don't harm themselves/others" In nature it isn't either, we just don't include their genes in future generations so we dont have to deal with their dumb asses.



Edited by OrgasmicBanana (07/16/15 11:17 AM)


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Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: OrgasmicBanana]
    #21953663 - 07/16/15 08:32 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I can't remember the last article on a drug in the popular media got me upset.  I expect it, in fact it's exceedingly rare to see an article which sticks to science and explains drugs in terms of the pharmacological activity and reveals effects both negative and positive.

So to the angry folks, this is how drugs are sensationalized in our culture.  It's the way it is and it won't change in our life times:shrug:

Remember news is not news, it's infotainment and should be regarded as such.

Rant completed.


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OfflineMajickMuffin
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Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: OrgasmicBanana]
    #21954122 - 07/16/15 10:33 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

OrgasmicBanana said:
Quote:

azur said:
There was an article a few months back where some guy in Florida was on flakka and was trying to fuck a tree



There was an article a couple months back about a guy who was on LSD who attacked a car with a katana and tried to have sex with a tree. "journalists" aren't even pretending to bother to make it seem like everything they write isn't made up, fuck them, fuck all the sheep who read their dumb shit fuck fox news and all news and america.

This article is retarded, someone deserves to get shot over this stupidity I cant decide who but... someone.



:thatsaten:


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Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #21954190 - 07/16/15 10:48 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Cognitive_Shift said:
Remember news is not news, it's infotainment and should be regarded as such.





That's about the crux of the matter right there IMO. Think click-bait - designed to draw in as many as possible - and you're on about the right track.


--------------------
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Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: motaman]
    #21954730 - 07/17/15 03:26 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

i hate these articles. all they do is get people scared about things they've got no idea about creating a boogy man that helps to perpetuate the drug war because... DRUGS ARE BAD!


So lame. i want to know what molecule is in whatever the fuck "flakka" is, i'm guessing some kind of synthetic cathinone? perhaps i missed something while reading this.


i can't... there's just too much misinformation in this article it's like it was done on purpose.


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OfflineMajickMuffin
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Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: 404]
    #21954960 - 07/17/15 07:02 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

404 said:
i hate these articles. all they do is get people scared about things they've got no idea about creating a boogy man that helps to perpetuate the drug war because... DRUGS ARE BAD!


So lame. i want to know what molecule is in whatever the fuck "flakka" is, i'm guessing some kind of synthetic cathinone? perhaps i missed something while reading this.


i can't... there's just too much misinformation in this article it's like it was done on purpose.



"These synthetics drugs are made with chemicals that nobody knows what they are," says Bill Bergquist, the sheriff of Clay County, Fla


Like they havent gotten 1 sample of the stuff? They cant figure out what it is?
Proof of bullshit


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OfflineMi-Go
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Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: MajickMuffin] * 1
    #21955236 - 07/17/15 09:01 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

MajickMuffin said:
Quote:

404 said:
i hate these articles. all they do is get people scared about things they've got no idea about creating a boogy man that helps to perpetuate the drug war because... DRUGS ARE BAD!


So lame. i want to know what molecule is in whatever the fuck "flakka" is, i'm guessing some kind of synthetic cathinone? perhaps i missed something while reading this.


i can't... there's just too much misinformation in this article it's like it was done on purpose.



"These synthetics drugs are made with chemicals that nobody knows what they are," says Bill Bergquist, the sheriff of Clay County, Fla


Like they havent gotten 1 sample of the stuff? They cant figure out what it is?
Proof of bullshit



Dude a-pvp has been around since the 60s im pretty sure they have researched a bit on pyrrolidine compounds seeing as to how alot of nootropics/stimulants stem from these amines, i remember reading somewhere about french soldiers using pyrovalerone or prolintane cant remember which, to keep them awake and pumped up during war, it was a crazier and more effective alternative to methamphetamine.


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Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: motaman]
    #21955818 - 07/17/15 11:56 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

motaman said:
The drug is sold ten times cheaper than drug cocktail Molly




:facepalm:


--------------------
An old man and his grandson are sitting by the fire outside the tepee, wrapped in furs and gazing into the leaping flames. High on a snowy ridge, a wolf howls at the moon and another answers from far away. Soon after, the old man removes the pipe from his mouth.

‘Grandson,’ he says. ‘There are two wolves inside you. One is white and the other is black.’
‘What are they doing there, Grandfather?’ asks the wide-eyed boy.
‘They are fighting each other,’ says the old man.
The boy considers this, then asks, ‘Why are they white and black?’
‘The white one is your love, your peace and your truth. The black one is your fear, your anger and your lies.’

The fire crackles and sparks flare in the night. The wolf on the ridge howls again and the old man puffs contentedly on his pipe. Finally, the boy says, ‘Which one will win, Grandfather?’

‘Ah,’ says the old man, removing the pipe once more. ‘The one that wins is the one that you feed.’


Edited by Wormi (07/17/15 11:57 AM)


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Offlinemy3rdeye
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Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: Asante]
    #21958110 - 07/17/15 09:10 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
Okay FINALLY some light in the darknes, this from a government site:

Quote:

Use of a dangerous synthetic cathinone drug called alpha-pyrrolidinopentiophenone (alpha-PVP), popularly known as "Flakka," is surging in Florida




"flakka" is a nonsensical name for alpha-PVP, the shorter acting somewhat less potent brother of MDPV that lacks the methylenedioxy ring.

The asuthor of that story didnt even know what he was talking about and you just enter Flakka in Google and the first hit gives it.

.





I like my hysterical drug stories to have a catchy street name that no one on the street has ever called it. Remember Meow meow?


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Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: my3rdeye]
    #21958120 - 07/17/15 09:12 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Drug cocktail :lol: give me a fucking break


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: Rebelutionsssss] * 1
    #21959542 - 07/18/15 07:51 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I think the media wants people to be misinformed, the use names like "flakka" instead of a-PvP because if you knew what it was you could obtain scientific and accurate information and make an educated decision to ingest the compound, being aware of its dose, pharmacology, and interactions with other drugs...

They want people to go nuts on scary unidentifiable things, it's more interesting "reporting", and as long as the readers are ignorant it's bound to happen again...

This article is like a modern parody of reefer madness...

-E. Borodon


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Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #21959860 - 07/18/15 10:01 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

People do dumb shit and kill others on just about anything.  Especially alcohol.  Even wellbutrin, the anti-D (Bupropion) is a 'bath salt' (Substituted Cathinone) that can cause violent psychosis. In Wellbutrin's case, though, they took a bath salt and took the feel good out of it to make an anti-D, and only left the side-effects. :grin:


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Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #21960087 - 07/18/15 11:16 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
I think the media wants people to be misinformed, the use names like "flakka" instead of a-PvP because if you knew what it was you could obtain scientific and accurate information and make an educated decision to ingest the compound, being aware of its dose, pharmacology, and interactions with other drugs...

They want people to go nuts on scary unidentifiable things, it's more interesting "reporting", and as long as the readers are ignorant it's bound to happen again...

This article is like a modern parody of reefer madness...

-E. Borodon



:whathesaid:


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #21960121 - 07/18/15 11:26 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
I think the media wants people to be misinformed, the use names like "flakka" instead of a-PvP because if you knew what it was you could obtain scientific and accurate information and make an educated decision to ingest the compound, being aware of its dose, pharmacology, and interactions with other drugs...

They want people to go nuts on scary unidentifiable things, it's more interesting "reporting", and as long as the readers are ignorant it's bound to happen again...

This article is like a modern parody of reefer madness...

-E. Borodon





It's not exactly that the media wants people to be misinformed.  The people who work in media want to keep their jobs, so they produce stories in a way that gets people to read and share them.  Not many people will read or share an accurate piece with chemical names and an honest assessment of the dangers - if they produce such a work, their boss will be very unhappy with the revenue it generates.  Much better to write something sensational, as if today's kids are on the verge of becoming a zombie epidemic of epic proportions.  That sells papers / gets clicks.

They are misleading people, but the reason they are doing this is not to misinform them - that is an unfortunate side effect of their strategy, which is shared by most media outlets because it is guided by human nature.


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Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #21963523 - 07/19/15 05:05 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I understand your point, though I slightly (and respectfully) disagree...I think it is very intentional how they handle these things....

I used to study marshal McLuhan to learn how I could take advantage of media and ended up learning how media is taking advantage of me....

These reporters must report this garbage or get fired, yes? It's the owners of the company who dictate this, these owners have agendas, and use their media outlets to enact them.

-E. Borodin


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Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #21963820 - 07/19/15 08:34 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
These reporters must report this garbage or get fired, yes? It's the owners of the company who dictate this, these owners have agendas, and use their media outlets to enact them.






Why would the owners of these companies care what the public thinks about drugs?


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Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #21965389 - 07/19/15 02:27 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

:lol: so fucking on point hahah


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Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: Rebelutionsssss]
    #21965538 - 07/19/15 02:45 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Its all about the moneyzzz and sensationalism ahhhh:ufo:


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Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: motaman]
    #21965820 - 07/19/15 03:27 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

http://dosemakespoison.blogspot.com/2015/05/another-day-another-flakka-story.html?m=1

Another day, another flakka story
A new article centered on flakka was published on CNN.com today. And some of it just makes me shake my head. Blatant misinformation as usual in a few aspects.

But like “bath salts”, a group of related synthetic drug that were banned in 2012…

No. “Bath salts” weren’t banned in 2012. Three components commonly found in “bath salts” products were banned by 2012. These were MDPV, Mephedrone, and Methylone. More "bath salts" compounds, including alpha-PVP, were banned in 2014.

A small overdose of the drug, which can be smoked, injected, snorted or injected, can lead to a range of extreme symptoms: “excited delirium,” as experts call it, marked by violent behavior; spikes in body temperature (105 degrees and higher, Hall said); paranoia.

Stimulant psychosis. Not excited delirium.

Probably what has brought flakka the most attention is that it gives users what feels like the strength and fury of the Incredible Hulk.

Strength and fury? Nice, but, no, you won't be meeting this guy after taking a dose of flakka (alpha-PVP).



But it [flakka] does have one advantage over its predecessor: it has not been banned – yet.

Yes, it has. Alpha-PVP has been considered a Schedule I controlled substance since March 7, 2014. It is banned in the USA.

It will probably take several years to get the data necessary to put a federal ban on flakka, he added.

No. It is currently considered a federal Schedule I controlled substance and it isn't coming off that list in any way, shape, or form.



Journalists, there are people out there that could help you, if you'd ask. Please do ask.

Cheers,

FTG


http://dosemakespoison.blogspot.com/2015/04/flakka-in-meme.html?m=1


Who fed these puppies some Flakka?




Here's Johnny! On Flakka. Looking back at the Shining, it makes a little more sense...




Wonder if Darth Vader knew the Emperor was on Flakka?




Of course, we all knew Charlie Sheen was on Flakka. Winning!




ALL THE FLAKKA!




Say Flakka again. Say Flakka again. I dare you. I double dare you motherfucker. Say Flakka one more goddamn time!




Research Ryan wants to invite you over for some cuddling and some Flakka.




We wants it...we needs it. Must have the Flakka. They stole it from us. Sneaky little hobbittses. Wicked, tricksy, false!




Get off my lawn with that flakka!





Even Grumpy Cat weighs in on Flakka.




And finally, beware of those drop bears on Flakka. When you least expect it...







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Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: motaman]
    #21979442 - 07/22/15 08:42 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

To help present a larger picture to you all I feel it important to point out here that amphetamines and weird RCs are availabke OTC in japan where suicide is also not illegal.  Do the math people.


the onky thing Earth needs mankind for is making more plastic, she just couldn't do it on her own--


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Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #21983249 - 07/23/15 06:18 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
These reporters must report this garbage or get fired, yes? It's the owners of the company who dictate this, these owners have agendas, and use their media outlets to enact them.






Why would the owners of these companies care what the public thinks about drugs?




Because it suits their agenda or the people they answer to's agenda.

It would be pretty hard to keep these things illegal if the media was not constantly releasing these "reefer-madness" style horror stories that keep public opinion on these things murky and divided.

(Why would they want to keep drugs illegal? Because the CIA and DEA sell drugs on a global scale to fund foreign rebel armies who  are fighting our enemies with out congressional approval or public knowledge...if drugs became legal global politics would never be the same...

Then we have the "non-money makers", the psychedelics, Americans are not afraid of drugs, there are drugs for sale in every gas station and super market in the United states, so it's not the drug part that scares them, with psychedelics it really is the psychedelics ability to allow people to deprogram from cultural standards and replace them with their own set of morals and cultural guidelines...this happened in the 1960s, you couldn't make being a beatnik or a hippie or anti-war into a crime, we can't criminalize cultures, so we criminalize their practices as a means of harassment and oppression...)

...Ok,back to media owners, look at Rupert Murdoch and how he uses media to enact his right-wing agenda, fuck, look at the Fox network, that's all Rupert...

...and since he has a political agenda he has political backing, so he allows distribution of their propaganda...now Rupert is not the only media owner (though he would like to be), but they all operate the same way.

Marshal mcluhan was a philosopher of media, when you see groups like Greenpeace exploit media, that's pure mcluhanism, though at the very same time you can see the media already using all these same tricks...we must take the tactics of the opposition and use them against them,but in learning how to do this i learned of how they are already employing these tactics on a mass scale...

-E. Borodin


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Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum] * 1
    #21984018 - 07/23/15 10:36 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
Because it suits their agenda or the people they answer to's agenda.




What is their agenda?  Why do they have that agenda?


Quote:

(Why would they want to keep drugs illegal? Because the CIA and DEA sell drugs on a global scale to fund foreign rebel armies who  are fighting our enemies with out congressional approval or public knowledge...if drugs became legal global politics would never be the same...




I have not seen any recent evidence that the CIA or DEA sells illegal drugs.  I have read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_CIA_drug_trafficking, and certainly it is true that some people who have worked for the CIA have used their planes to move drugs and get rich.  However I haven't seen any evidence that it is more than a few rogue agents.



Quote:

Then we have the "non-money makers", the psychedelics, Americans are not afraid of drugs, there are drugs for sale in every gas station and super market in the United states, so it's not the drug part that scares them, with psychedelics it really is the psychedelics ability to allow people to deprogram from cultural standards and replace them with their own set of morals and cultural guidelines...




Psychedelics don't actually do that. 

And I don't think the US government really cares about keeping cultural standards and moral guidelines the same.

Congressmen aren't sitting around saying "These psychedelics are freeing people from our shackles - let's increase the penalties!"

It's more like "These psychedelics are a real problem for some people, we need to restrict them".



Quote:

...Ok,back to media owners, look at Rupert Murdoch and how he uses media to enact his right-wing agenda, fuck, look at the Fox network, that's all Rupert...




Fox news sucks, but that is a very small subset of the media. 

Most people in the media just do their job and go home, it's not a big conspiracy to keep drugs illegal.  The voters are the ones that are keeping psychedelics illegal.


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Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #21994155 - 07/25/15 08:58 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

I have not seen any recent evidence that the CIA or DEA sells illegal drugs.




what I discovered is drug smuggling is like assassination. If the government isn't involved, it never seems to really happen-terence mckenna

To think CIA agents get caught dealing massive amounts of drugs are occurrences relating only to the agent and not the whole VIA is absurd


Yeah it's funny how everybody who reports on these things is discredited in the mainstream...

It's hard for me to believe you don't see any evidence that the people who have ultimate control over drugs are not the same people distributing them, Because the more I research the more I see the CIA and DEA distributing drugs, then giving the profits to dangerous rebel armies who are overthrowing the government's of our enemys. To fund these people otherwise would require congressional approval, the public would be made aware of it, and the United states would have to take responsibility when these armies turn on us...

Here's another example I did not bring up, General pao and his army was our anti-communist ally in Viet-nam and his army were notorious heroin dealers, and to.fund them the CIA began selling heroin globally.

Or during the Reagan years, the CIA sold cocaine to fund the contras, along with some other back-handed methods for going around congress to fund foreign armies which got Reagan and Oliver north in quite a bit of trouble
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_involvement_in_Contra_cocaine_trafficking

There is no drug problem, it's an addiction problem, and the addiction is government agencies addicted to large sums of untraceable cash, the have every interest in these things being contraband

...do you really think they are fighting tooth and nail to keep these things prohibited because they care that much about public health and safety?

In the text below Mr. Mckennadiscusses his views on the issue, which I agree with 100%

:tmckenna:I did a lot of research on an area I didn't know that much about, which is, let's say from 1500 to the present, drugs of addiction. And what I discovered is drug smuggling is like assassination. If the government isn't involved, it never seems to really happen. And governments have been using drugs for centuries as forms of secret revenue. This whole sugar thing that I laid out to you, those were decisions made by the crown heads of Europe in collusion with the Pope. It wasn't common people who set those policies in place.

During the 1960's, when the black ghettos began to come apart, suddenly number three China white heroin was cheaper and more available than it had ever been in any time in this history of the heroin problem in the United States. Why? Because the CIA saw, you know, all these black guys are getting up, a bunch of uppity niggers as the government calls them, you just smother it in heroin. Get everybody either hooked or making money...

And they don't care really about the effects of drugs, and one group, one faction will work against another. For example, I'm a great afficianado of hashish, and hashish became very hard to get in the United States in the late 70's. But as soon as the Russians invaded Afghanistan, suddenly there was massive amounts of excellent Afghani hashish, at prices that nobody had seen for fifteen years. Well, the reason was, the CIA knows that hashish is not really a problem. But what they wanted is, they wanted an income for the mujahadin. And they had to pay for all these weapons. So they just started bringing it in wholesale. And it wasn't even a smuggling operation. I mean, I received reports from people who said, you know, 'Smuggling? They're not smuggling. They're unloading it on pier 39, union local 1030 is taking off, you know, five hundred pound blocks of hashish by the tens of thousands.' And the day the Afghan war ended? They staged an enormous series of interlocking busts on their own infrastructure, and they closed it down, and they pulled it to pieces.

When Khomeni kicked out the Shah, the Iranian heroin business then fell under the control of the mulahs, and at that point, suddenly cocaine emerges as a major problem in the United States, because we just switched our supply lines. We could no longer depend on Iranian heroin, because we couldn't depend on these screwy Islamic fundamentalists, so we just turned toward all of these company assets in Honduras and Ecuador and Columbia. Very, very cynical.

You know, it's only been a hundred and twenty years since the so called opium wars. Very few people know what the opium wars, what was the issue in the opium wars. Well, it turns out the British government wanted to deal opium in China, and the Chinese Emperor told them to get lost. And they flipped. And they sent naval units, and they laid siege to several Chinese cities, and they forced the Chinese imperial court to agree that they could deal as much opium as they wanted on the wharves of Shanghai...

The Japanese, when they invaded Manchuria in the Second World War, they immediately began producing heroin and opium in vast amounts, not then as an economic strategy, but as a strategy to break the will of the Chinese population by encouraging addiction, and there was vast amounts of opium addiction. If any of you saw 'The Last Emperor,' you recall that his mistress was severely addicted to opium, and it depicted it in a number of scenes.

So governments have very cynically manipulated drugs, so that the drugs which make it possible for capitalism to function are cheap and freely available, and the drugs which erode dominator values, or cause people to question their situation, are savagely supressed.

-E. Borodin


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Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #21994257 - 07/25/15 09:14 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
what I discovered is drug smuggling is like assassination. If the government isn't involved, it never seems to really happen-terence mckenna




That isn't true at all - there is a huge profit motive in smuggling drugs.

Also, anything that Terrence Mckenna said is the opposite of the truth.

Quote:

To think CIA agents get caught dealing massive amounts of drugs are occurrences relating only to the agent and not the whole VIA is absurd




Why?  Are you saying that CIA agents don't like money?

Quote:

Yeah it's funny how everybody who reports on these things is discredited in the mainstream...





There hasn't been anyone reporting it recently.


Quote:

It's hard for me to believe you don't see any evidence that the people who have ultimate control over drugs are not the same people distributing them, Because the more I research the more I see the CIA and DEA distributing drugs, then giving the profits to dangerous rebel armies who are overthrowing the government's of our enemys. To fund these people otherwise would require congressional approval, the public would be made aware of it, and the United states would have to take responsibility when these armies turn on us...




The CIA has a large black budget, they would be very foolish to risk it all by selling drugs.



Quote:

...do you really think they are fighting tooth and nail to keep these things prohibited because they care that much about public health and safety?




No.  It's not about public safety.  It's about the will of the voters.  Most people who vote want drug possession to remain a crime, and so they vote for candidates that are tough on crime.

Drugs will remain illegal until the voters decide otherwise.


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Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #21994282 - 07/25/15 09:18 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Psychedelics don't actually do that. 

And I don't think the US government really cares about keeping cultural standards and moral guidelines the same.

Congressmen aren't sitting around saying "These psychedelics are freeing people from our shackles - let's increase the penalties!"

It's more like "These psychedelics are a real problem for some people, we need to restrict them"




Psychedelics don't do what?

They obviously care, if public opinion is vastly anti-government revolutions occur, why do you think LSD became illegal in the 1960s? The system saw itself literally dissolving in acid. It was changing minds, it was changing culture... the government is not afraid of drugs and neither are Americans, I made this point before, there are drugs being pushed on Americans from all directions, they are for sell at every store on every corner...so it's not the drugs that freaked them out, it was the cultural change the drugs were producing, it was changing the way people thought about and saw the world...

It's funny you say "these things were a problem for people" when the only people they were a problem for was the establishment.
You can not become addicted to a traditional psychedelic, you can not become physically dependant, and due to rapid tolerance you must put 3-7 days between each use. These compound actually break habits, they don't form them. The do not cause compulsive re-dosing, or unexamined destructive compulsive behaviors.
Physically these compounds are benign:

As senior LSD researcher Dr. David Nichols, Distinguished Chair of Pharmacology at Purdue University and head of one of the world's top LSD research labs, stated in his 2004 review article on hallucinogens, "There is no evidence that any of the hallucinogens, even the very powerful semisynthetic LSD, causes damage to any human body organ. [...] Hallucinogens do not cause life-threatening changes in cardiovascular, renal, or hepatic function because they have little or no affinity for the biological receptors and targets that mediate vital vegetative functions.(-erowid)

Quote:

Congressmen aren't sitting around saying "These psychedelics are freeing people from our shackles - let's increase the penalties!"





In the above link is Nixon not doing just that?


Seriously, if you don't agree that's fine, but I leave again with another mckenna quote on the topic:

:tmckenna:You see, the hidden issue, and it need not be hidden among us...the government always tries to paint itself as the mother hen, concerned about her errant chicks. And so, to keep you from crashing into other people on the freeway, to keep you from leaping out of buildings or committing society, we have to control these drugs. As a matter of fact, you know, this is absurd. More people die because of alcohol than all illegal drugs combined in a given year. The government is not your friend on this issue. The government is very concerned to control the mass mind. And marijuana -- my God, since the British Commission on Hemp, which was in 1889, I believe -- the British East India Company commissioned a study of hemp -- they have spent millions and millions and millions of dollars to find something, anything, you name it, wrong with cannabis. There is nothing wrong with cannabis. It is the most thoroughly tested, pawed over, and examined drug in human history. And they just come up with the lamest stuff. I mean, they tell you, you know, you're gonna have tits. Give me a break. They say, 'You won't be motivated in your job.' Like your job is supposed to be the (pinnacle) against which all things are to be measured.

-E. Borodin


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Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #21994305 - 07/25/15 09:24 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
what I discovered is drug smuggling is like assassination. If the government isn't involved, it never seems to really happen-terence mckenna




That isn't true at all - there is a huge profit motive in smuggling drugs.

Also, anything that Terrence Mckenna said is the opposite of the truth.

Quote:

To think CIA agents get caught dealing massive amounts of drugs are occurrences relating only to the agent and not the whole VIA is absurd




Why?  Are you saying that CIA agents don't like money?

Quote:

Yeah it's funny how everybody who reports on these things is discredited in the mainstream...





There hasn't been anyone reporting it recently.


Quote:

It's hard for me to believe you don't see any evidence that the people who have ultimate control over drugs are not the same people distributing them, Because the more I research the more I see the CIA and DEA distributing drugs, then giving the profits to dangerous rebel armies who are overthrowing the government's of our enemys. To fund these people otherwise would require congressional approval, the public would be made aware of it, and the United states would have to take responsibility when these armies turn on us...




The CIA has a large black budget, they would be very foolish to risk it all by selling drugs.



Quote:

...do you really think they are fighting tooth and nail to keep these things prohibited because they care that much about public health and safety?




No.  It's not about public safety.  It's about the will of the voters.  Most people who vote want drug possession to remain a crime, and so they vote for candidates that are tough on crime.

Drugs will remain illegal until the voters decide otherwise.





Jesus, I'm not even sure how to respond to this other than saying you are totally wrong.

If you want to debate Please back up you claims with something other than personal opinion, I've taken the time to offer plenty of evidence.

-E. Borodin


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Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #21994316 - 07/25/15 09:28 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Regardless of what you think about mckenna, on these topics he was dead on, so it may help to actually read the quotes before you dismiss mckenna as "unable of telling the truth"

-E. Borodin


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Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #21994390 - 07/25/15 09:37 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
Psychedelics don't do what?




Psychedelics do not "allow people to deprogram from cultural standards and replace them with their own set of morals and cultural guidelines..."



Quote:

They obviously care, if public opinion is vastly anti-government revolutions occur, why do you think LSD became illegal in the 1960s?




No drug can cause people to have anti-government sentiments - that is beyond the scope of what drugs can do.

Quote:

It's funny you say "these things were a problem for people" when the only people they were a problem for was the establishment.




Psychedelics are rarely a problem for the establishment.  I was talking about these types of problems:  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/ap/article-3079110/Man-killed-Madison-officer-high-mushrooms.html





Quote:

Quote:

Congressmen aren't sitting around saying "These psychedelics are freeing people from our shackles - let's increase the penalties!"





In the above link is Nixon not doing just that?




He sucked.



Seriously, if you don't agree that's fine, but I leave again with another mckenna quote on the topic:




Everything he says is true until he starts talking about controlling the mass mind.  That's what most people don't get - it's not a conspiracy.  It's just the way things are right now.


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Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #21994399 - 07/25/15 09:39 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

There hasn't been anyone reporting it recently.




Bullshit, there's a huge amount of reporting because the CIA is running heroin from the middle east, just like the did in Viet nam...

I typed this into Google, http://americanfreepress.net/?p=16169 ans this was the first to come up, so people are still reporting.

I'll pull up some good reports when I have some more time

-E. Borodin


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Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #21996552 - 07/25/15 06:10 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
I typed this into Google, http://americanfreepress.net/?p=16169 ans this was the first to come up, so people are still reporting





That article makes some vague accusations, but doesn't cite any evidence.


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Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: Alan Rockefeller] * 1
    #22000561 - 07/26/15 04:13 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:








Edited by travelleler (07/26/15 04:15 PM)


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Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: travelleler]
    #22040748 - 08/04/15 05:32 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

The text below was taken from http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-real-drug-lords-a-brief-history-of-cia-involvement-in-the-drug-trade/10013

FRANCE

According to Alfred W. McCoy in The Politics of Heroin in Southeast Asia, CIA arms, money, and disinformation enabled Corsican criminal syndicates in Marseille to wrestle control of labor unions from the Communist Party. The Corsicans gained political influence and control over the docks — ideal conditions for cementing a long-term partnership with mafia drug distributors, which turned Marseille into the postwar heroin capital of the Western world. Marseille’s first heroin laboratones were opened in 1951, only months after the Corsicans took over the waterfront.

EARLY 1950s, SOUTHEAST ASIA

The Nationalist Chinese army, organized by the CIA to wage war against Communist China, became the opium barons of The Golden Triangle (parts of Burma, Thailand and Laos), the world’s largest source of opium and heroin. Air America, the ClA’s principal airline proprietary, flew the drugs all over Southeast Asia. (See Christopher Robbins, Air America, Avon Books, 1985, chapter 9)

1950s to early 1970s, INDOCHINA During U.S. military involvement in Laos and other parts of Indochina, Air America flew opium and heroin throughout the area. Many Gl’s in Vietnam became addicts. A laboratory built at CIA headquarters in northern Laos was used to refine heroin. After a decade of American military intervention, Southeast Asia had become the source of 70 percent of the world’s illicit opium and the major supplier of raw materials for America’s booming heroin market.

1973-80, AUSTRALIA

The Nugan Hand Bank of Sydney was a CIA bank in all but name. Among its officers were a network of US generals, admirals and CIA men, including fommer CIA Director William Colby, who was also one of its lawyers. With branches in Saudi Arabia, Europe, Southeast Asia, South America and the U.S., Nugan Hand Bank financed drug trafficking, money laundering and international arms dealings. In 1980, amidst several mysterious deaths, the bank collapsed, $50 million in debt. (See Jonathan Kwitny, The Crimes of Patriots: A True Tale of Dope, Dirty Money and the CIA, W.W. Norton & Co., 1 987.)

1970s and 1980s, PANAMA

For more than a decade, Panamanian strongman Manuel Noriega was a highly paid CIA asset and collaborator, despite knowledge by U.S. drug authorities as early as 1971 that the general was heavily involved in drug trafficking and money laundering. Noriega facilitated ”guns-for-drugs” flights for the contras, providing protection and pilots, as well as safe havens for drug cartel otficials, and discreet banking facilities. U.S. officials, including then-ClA Director William Webster and several DEA officers, sent Noriega letters of praise for efforts to thwart drug trafficking (albeit only against competitors of his Medellin Cartel patrons). The U.S. government only turned against Noriega, invading Panama in December 1989 and kidnapping the general once they discovered he was providing intelligence and services to the Cubans and Sandinistas. Ironically drug trafficking through Panama increased after the US invasion. (John Dinges, Our Man in Panama, Random House, 1991; National Security Archive Documentation Packet The Contras, Cocaine, and Covert Operations.)

1980s, CENTRAL AMERICA

The San Jose Mercury News series documents just one thread of the interwoven operations linking the CIA, the contras and the cocaine cartels. Obsessed with overthrowing the leftist Sandinista government in Nicaragua, Reagan administration officials tolerated drug trafficking as long as the traffickers gave support to the contras. In 1989, the Senate Subcommittee on Terrorism, Narcotics, and International Operations (the Kerry committee) concluded a three-year investigation by stating:

“There was substantial evidence of drug smuggling through the war zones on the part of individual Contras, Contra suppliers, Contra pilots mercenaries who worked with the Contras, and Contra supporters throughout the region…. U.S. officials involved in Central America failed to address the drug issue for fear of jeopardizing the war efforts against Nicaragua…. In each case, one or another agency of the U.S. govemment had intormation regarding the involvement either while it was occurring, or immediately thereafter…. Senior U S policy makers were nit immune to the idea that drug money was a perfect solution to the Contras’ funding problems.” (Drugs, Law Enforcement and Foreign Policy, a Report of the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations, Subcommittee on Terrorism, Narcotics and Intemational Operations, 1989)

In Costa Rica, which served as the “Southern Front” for the contras (Honduras being the Northern Front), there were several different ClA-contra networks involved in drug trafficking. In addition to those servicing the Meneses-Blandon operation detailed by the Mercury News, and Noriega’s operation, there was CIA operative John Hull, whose farms along Costa Rica’s border with Nicaragua were the main staging area for the contras. Hull and other ClA-connected contra supporters and pilots teamed up with George Morales, a major Miami-based Colombian drug trafficker who later admitted to giving $3 million in cash and several planes to contra leaders. In 1989, after the Costa Rica government indicted Hull for drug trafficking, a DEA-hired plane clandestinely and illegally flew the CIA operative to Miami, via Haiti. The US repeatedly thwarted Costa Rican efforts to extradite Hull back to Costa Rica to stand trial. Another Costa Rican-based drug ring involved a group of Cuban Amencans whom the CIA had hired as military trainers for the contras. Many had long been involved with the CIA and drug trafficking They used contra planes and a Costa Rican-based shnmp company, which laundered money for the CIA, to move cocaine to the U.S. Costa Rica was not the only route. Guatemala, whose military intelligence service — closely associated with the CIA — harbored many drug traffickers, according to the DEA, was another way station along the cocaine highway.

Additionally, the Medellin Cartel’s Miami accountant, Ramon Milian Rodriguez, testified that he funneled nearly $10 million to Nicaraguan contras through long-time CIA operative Felix Rodriguez, who was based at Ilopango Air Force Base in El Salvador. The contras provided both protection and infrastructure (planes, pilots, airstrips, warehouses, front companies and banks) to these ClA-linked drug networks. At least four transport companies under investigation for drug trafficking received US govemment contracts to carry non-lethal supplies to the contras. Southern Air Transport, “formerly” ClA-owned, and later under Pentagon contract, was involved in the drug running as well. Cocaine-laden planes flew to Florida, Texas, Louisiana and other locations, including several militarv bases Designated as ‘Contra Craft,” these shipments were not to be inspected. When some authority wasn’t clued in and made an arrest, powerful strings were pulled on behalf of dropping the case, acquittal, reduced sentence, or deportation.

1980s to early 1990s, AFGHANISTAN

ClA-supported Moujahedeen rebels engaged heavily in drug trafficking while fighting against the Soviet-supported govemment and its plans to reform the very backward Afghan society. The Agency’s principal client was Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, one of the leading druglords and leading heroin refiner. CIA supplied trucks and mules, which had carried arms into Afghanistan, were used to transport opium to laboratories along the Afghan Pakistan border. The output provided up to one half of the heroin used annually in the United States and three-quarters of that used in Western Europe. US officials admitted in 1990 that they had failed to investigate or take action against the drug operabon because of a desire not to offend their Pakistani and Afghan allies. In 1993, an official of the DEA called Afghanistan the new Colombia of the drug world.

MlD-1980s to early 199Os, HAITI

While working to keep key Haitian military and political leaders in power, the CIA turned a blind eye to their clients’ drug trafficking. In 1986, the Agency added some more names to its payroll by creating a new Haitian organization, the National Intelligence Service (SIN). SIN was purportedly created to fight the cocaine trade, though SIN officers themselves engaged in the trafficking, a trade aided and abetted by some of the Haitian military and political leaders.

-E. Borodin


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Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22040763 - 08/04/15 05:35 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/item/12247-cia-manages-drug-trade-mexican-official-says

Officials in Mexican government accuse the CIA of "managing the drug trade for their benefits"

-E. Borodin


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Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22040779 - 08/04/15 05:39 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

The CIA Drug ConnectionIs as Old as the Agency

This is the title of the new York Times article posted in the link below:

http://www.nytimes.com/1993/12/03/opinion/03iht-edlarry.html

-E. Borodin


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Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22041384 - 08/04/15 10:17 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:

Officials in Mexican government accuse the CIA of "managing the drug trade for their benefits"







As they should be!

The US government can't get every drug smuggler, they ought to be choosing their targets carefully.  Hopefully they are going after the more problematic ones.


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Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #22041445 - 08/04/15 10:30 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Looking the other way on confidential informants or their organization is standard counter narcotics practice, i'm not sure why people would find that surprising.


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Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #22041512 - 08/04/15 10:43 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Cognitive_Shift said:
Looking the other way on confidential informants or their organization is standard counter narcotics practice, i'm not sure why people would find that surprising.





The reason people find it surprising is that they are "convinced" that the CIA is actively selling illegal drugs in an official capacity.

They are probably wrong.

However they are already convinced, and they really want to believe - so they latch on to any shred of evidence, no matter how slim to attempt to "prove" what they already "know".

If the CIA gets caught selling drugs I'll be shouting about it from the rooftops.  But without evidence, saying that they are is irresponsible.  Yes, I have read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_CIA_drug_trafficking;  It's all old info which fails to make a convincing argument that this is an ongoing issue.  The most damning evidence comes from highly dubious sources.  CIA agents have been caught selling drugs, but there was no evidence that this was anything other than poor management oversight.


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Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #22053146 - 08/06/15 11:44 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:

Officials in Mexican government accuse the CIA of "managing the drug trade for their benefits"

/quote]


As they should be!

The US government can't get every drug smuggler, they ought to be choosing their targets carefully.  Hopefully they are going after the more problematic ones.




The article was about how the CIA controls the cartels, providing them with opportunity to import as well as supply of product.

The Mexican government who is trying to stop the drug cartels is upset with the CIA because the CIA is manipulating the drug trade for profit and enforcing the drug trade not deconstructing it.

-E. Borodin


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Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #22053293 - 08/06/15 12:05 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

At one point you said "why would the CIA risk selling drugs" first it's not a risk because it's the CIA and DEA who have permits to handle as much drugs as they want, they are not risking anything, and the government knows the CIA deals drugs...
Look at Iran contra, Ollie north and Reagan sold weapons to Iran to fund rebel armies in Nicaragua...so what makes you think it's so outrageous that the VIA sells drugs to do the same thing? a plane full of cocaine also crashed just before this in Nicaragua, the pilot was a CIA agent running cocaine importation from Nicaragua to the US, then running the profits back to give to the contras, when the pilot was found by the Nicaraguan government he did not hysterectomy say "I work for the CIA"
Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:

Cognitive_Shift said:
Looking the other way on confidential informants or their organization is standard counter narcotics practice, i'm not sure why people would find that surprising.





The reason people find it surprising is that they are "convinced" that the CIA is actively selling illegal drugs in an official capacity.

They are probably wrong.

However they are already convinced, and they really want to believe - so they latch on to any shred of evidence, no matter how slim to attempt to "prove" what they already "know".

If the CIA gets caught selling drugs I'll be shouting about it from the rooftops.  But without evidence, saying that they are is irresponsible.  Yes, I have read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_CIA_drug_trafficking;  It's all old info which fails to make a convincing argument that this is an ongoing issue.  The most damning evidence comes from highly dubious sources.  CIA agents have been caught selling drugs, but there was no evidence that this was anything other than poor management oversight.







Grabbing any shred of evidence?, have you read any other post on this thread? Have you ever done the least bit of research on drugs and the drug war? This isn't speculation, this is known, and it's confirmed by ex-CIA and all their civilian ex-operitives

Ex-CIA agents will admit everything as they have before, regardless it's obvious that this is what's going on, and if you have ever done any in depth research on the drug war you would know the CIA are notorious drug dealers, seriously read a book or watch a documentary on the drug war, I promise the CIA gets credit where it's due.

Are you familiar with MKULTRA? This was more CIA drug manipulation. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra


Again you find it hard to believe that the people who control the drugs are not taking advantage of their contraband status to fund rebel armies fighting their enemies without congressional or public approval, when they have been caught doing it thousands of times...hell, Reagan and Ollie north sold weapons to Iran to do the exact same thing (to fund the contrast in Nicaragua)

I'd say before you think that your precious government and CIA and DEA are not global drug dealers that maybe you should do.some research on the topic.

I'll make it easy, in this link is a credible documentary on the drug war called American drug war:the last white hope
The whole film.is for free in the link, it breaks down the drug war objectively, and surprise surprise, the CIA are at the top of the drug dealing empire.

This should be common sense, anybody who knows anything about drugs and their history knows the role the CIA and DEA play.

I'll leave you with a mckenna lecture, I encourage  you to research every historical reference he makes regarding political parties and the drugs the CIA helped them deal to fight the enemies of the United states...

:tmckenna:When I wrote this book, I did a lot of research on an area I didn't know that much about, which is, let's say from 1500 to the present, drugs of addiction. And what I discovered is drug smuggling is like assassination. If the government isn't involved, it never seems to really happen. And governments have been using drugs for centuries as forms of secret revenue. This whole sugar thing that I laid out to you, those were decisions made by the crown heads of Europe in collusion with the Pope. It wasn't common people who set those policies in place.

During the 1960's, when the black ghettos began to come apart, suddenly number three China white heroin was cheaper and more available than it had ever been in any time in this history of the heroin problem in the United States. Why? Because the CIA saw, you know, all these black guys are getting up, a bunch of uppity niggers as the government calls them, you just smother it in heroin. Get everybody either hooked or making money...

And they don't care really about the effects of drugs, and one group, one faction will work against another. For example, I'm a great afficianado of hashish, and hashish became very hard to get in the United States in the late 70's. But as soon as the Russians invaded Afghanistan, suddenly there was massive amounts of excellent Afghani hashish, at prices that nobody had seen for fifteen years. Well, the reason was, the CIA knows that hashish is not really a problem. But what they wanted is, they wanted an income for the mujahadin. And they had to pay for all these weapons. So they just started bringing it in wholesale. And it wasn't even a smuggling operation. I mean, I received reports from people who said, you know, 'Smuggling? They're not smuggling. They're unloading it on pier 39, union local 1030 is taking off, you know, five hundred pound blocks of hashish by the tens of thousands.' And the day the Afghan war ended? They staged an enormous series of interlocking busts on their own infrastructure, and they closed it down, and they pulled it to pieces.

When Khomeni kicked out the Shah, the Iranian heroin business then fell under the control of the mulahs, and at that point, suddenly cocaine emerges as a major problem in the United States, because we just switched our supply lines. We could no longer depend on Iranian heroin, because we couldn't depend on these screwy Islamic fundamentalists, so we just turned toward all of these company assets in Honduras and Ecuador and Columbia. Very, very cynical.

You know, it's only been a hundred and twenty years since the so called opium wars. Very few people know what the opium wars, what was the issue in the opium wars. Well, it turns out the British government wanted to deal opium in China, and the Chinese Emperor told them to get lost. And they flipped. And they sent naval units, and they laid siege to several Chinese cities, and they forced the Chinese imperial court to agree that they could deal as much opium as they wanted on the wharves of Shanghai...

The Japanese, when they invaded Manchuria in the Second World War, they immediately began producing heroin and opium in vast amounts, not then as an economic strategy, but as a strategy to break the will of the Chinese population by encouraging addiction, and there was vast amounts of opium addiction. If any of you saw 'The Last Emperor,' you recall that his mistress was severely addicted to opium, and it depicted it in a number of scenes.

So governments have very cynically manipulated drugs, so that the drugs which make it possible for capitalism to function are cheap and freely available, and the drugs which erode dominator values, or cause people to question their situation, are savagely supressed.

-E. Borodin


Edited by Coincidentiaoppositorum (08/06/15 12:06 PM)


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Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22053434 - 08/06/15 12:32 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

http://www.nytimes.com/1993/12/03/opinion/03iht-edlarry.html

This is a net York Times article titled "the CIA drug connection is as old as the agency"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_involvement_in_Contra_cocaine_trafficking

Why did you not include this wiki link in your post?, you must have seen it

American drug war: the last white hope


Did you see that long list in my last post? Please research every item on it in depth.

http://www.rt.com/usa/194992-cia-crack-scandal-webb/
An article backing the initial report of CIA running cocaine for the contras, the initial reporter killed himself, but now people involved are comming forward.

http://nsarchive.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB2/index.html#1 https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/10/02/cont-o02.html
In the links there's a document proving the CIA knew of cocaine smuggling activities tied to the contras

http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/item/12247-cia-manages-drug-trade-mexican-official-says

The link above I posted before, but the last person who read it did not understand what it was saying at all...

http://americanfreepress.net/?p=16169
This is an article on how the CIA is fueling the heroin epidemic.

In April 1998, Celerino Castillo, a former top-level Drug Enforcement Agency operative, provided sensitive, first-hand testimony to the US Senate House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence.  He told the Senators of his direct personal knowledge of massive CIA complicity in the drug trade.
http://www.deepblacklies.co.uk/cia_drug_trafficking.htm
Here is the article from which the above clip was taken...

This is just scratching the surface, there's report after report, documents, ex-CIA and DEA testimony, programs like MKULTRA which became public, look into"operation midnight climax" this is where a high level CIA agent (Sidney gotlieb) would dress as a beatnik and go to coffee houses in the bay area feeding unsuspecting citizens LSD, which he named "stormy" due to the varied and wild reactions.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Midnight_Climax

How much evidence do you need?

It would be harder to prove that they are not drug distributors.

If you don't think the CIA and DEA are drug distributors that's your choice, but anybody educated in the matter would not agree with you.

-E. Borodin


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Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22053442 - 08/06/15 12:35 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)



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Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum] * 1
    #22053450 - 08/06/15 12:39 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Oh, I just realized, when I said "do you remember that long list?" That it was many many post back, so here it is again, please research these events.

The text below was taken from http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-real-drug-lords-a-brief-history-of-cia-involvement-in-the-drug-trade/10013

FRANCE

According to Alfred W. McCoy in The Politics of Heroin in Southeast Asia, CIA arms, money, and disinformation enabled Corsican criminal syndicates in Marseille to wrestle control of labor unions from the Communist Party. The Corsicans gained political influence and control over the docks — ideal conditions for cementing a long-term partnership with mafia drug distributors, which turned Marseille into the postwar heroin capital of the Western world. Marseille’s first heroin laboratones were opened in 1951, only months after the Corsicans took over the waterfront.

EARLY 1950s, SOUTHEAST ASIA

The Nationalist Chinese army, organized by the CIA to wage war against Communist China, became the opium barons of The Golden Triangle (parts of Burma, Thailand and Laos), the world’s largest source of opium and heroin. Air America, the ClA’s principal airline proprietary, flew the drugs all over Southeast Asia. (See Christopher Robbins, Air America, Avon Books, 1985, chapter 9)

1950s to early 1970s, INDOCHINA During U.S. military involvement in Laos and other parts of Indochina, Air America flew opium and heroin throughout the area. Many Gl’s in Vietnam became addicts. A laboratory built at CIA headquarters in northern Laos was used to refine heroin. After a decade of American military intervention, Southeast Asia had become the source of 70 percent of the world’s illicit opium and the major supplier of raw materials for America’s booming heroin market.

1973-80, AUSTRALIA

The Nugan Hand Bank of Sydney was a CIA bank in all but name. Among its officers were a network of US generals, admirals and CIA men, including fommer CIA Director William Colby, who was also one of its lawyers. With branches in Saudi Arabia, Europe, Southeast Asia, South America and the U.S., Nugan Hand Bank financed drug trafficking, money laundering and international arms dealings. In 1980, amidst several mysterious deaths, the bank collapsed, $50 million in debt. (See Jonathan Kwitny, The Crimes of Patriots: A True Tale of Dope, Dirty Money and the CIA, W.W. Norton & Co., 1 987.)

1970s and 1980s, PANAMA

For more than a decade, Panamanian strongman Manuel Noriega was a highly paid CIA asset and collaborator, despite knowledge by U.S. drug authorities as early as 1971 that the general was heavily involved in drug trafficking and money laundering. Noriega facilitated ”guns-for-drugs” flights for the contras, providing protection and pilots, as well as safe havens for drug cartel otficials, and discreet banking facilities. U.S. officials, including then-ClA Director William Webster and several DEA officers, sent Noriega letters of praise for efforts to thwart drug trafficking (albeit only against competitors of his Medellin Cartel patrons). The U.S. government only turned against Noriega, invading Panama in December 1989 and kidnapping the general once they discovered he was providing intelligence and services to the Cubans and Sandinistas. Ironically drug trafficking through Panama increased after the US invasion. (John Dinges, Our Man in Panama, Random House, 1991; National Security Archive Documentation Packet The Contras, Cocaine, and Covert Operations.)

1980s, CENTRAL AMERICA

The San Jose Mercury News series documents just one thread of the interwoven operations linking the CIA, the contras and the cocaine cartels. Obsessed with overthrowing the leftist Sandinista government in Nicaragua, Reagan administration officials tolerated drug trafficking as long as the traffickers gave support to the contras. In 1989, the Senate Subcommittee on Terrorism, Narcotics, and International Operations (the Kerry committee) concluded a three-year investigation by stating:

“There was substantial evidence of drug smuggling through the war zones on the part of individual Contras, Contra suppliers, Contra pilots mercenaries who worked with the Contras, and Contra supporters throughout the region…. U.S. officials involved in Central America failed to address the drug issue for fear of jeopardizing the war efforts against Nicaragua…. In each case, one or another agency of the U.S. govemment had intormation regarding the involvement either while it was occurring, or immediately thereafter…. Senior U S policy makers were nit immune to the idea that drug money was a perfect solution to the Contras’ funding problems.” (Drugs, Law Enforcement and Foreign Policy, a Report of the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations, Subcommittee on Terrorism, Narcotics and Intemational Operations, 1989)

In Costa Rica, which served as the “Southern Front” for the contras (Honduras being the Northern Front), there were several different ClA-contra networks involved in drug trafficking. In addition to those servicing the Meneses-Blandon operation detailed by the Mercury News, and Noriega’s operation, there was CIA operative John Hull, whose farms along Costa Rica’s border with Nicaragua were the main staging area for the contras. Hull and other ClA-connected contra supporters and pilots teamed up with George Morales, a major Miami-based Colombian drug trafficker who later admitted to giving $3 million in cash and several planes to contra leaders. In 1989, after the Costa Rica government indicted Hull for drug trafficking, a DEA-hired plane clandestinely and illegally flew the CIA operative to Miami, via Haiti. The US repeatedly thwarted Costa Rican efforts to extradite Hull back to Costa Rica to stand trial. Another Costa Rican-based drug ring involved a group of Cuban Amencans whom the CIA had hired as military trainers for the contras. Many had long been involved with the CIA and drug trafficking They used contra planes and a Costa Rican-based shnmp company, which laundered money for the CIA, to move cocaine to the U.S. Costa Rica was not the only route. Guatemala, whose military intelligence service — closely associated with the CIA — harbored many drug traffickers, according to the DEA, was another way station along the cocaine highway.

Additionally, the Medellin Cartel’s Miami accountant, Ramon Milian Rodriguez, testified that he funneled nearly $10 million to Nicaraguan contras through long-time CIA operative Felix Rodriguez, who was based at Ilopango Air Force Base in El Salvador. The contras provided both protection and infrastructure (planes, pilots, airstrips, warehouses, front companies and banks) to these ClA-linked drug networks. At least four transport companies under investigation for drug trafficking received US govemment contracts to carry non-lethal supplies to the contras. Southern Air Transport, “formerly” ClA-owned, and later under Pentagon contract, was involved in the drug running as well. Cocaine-laden planes flew to Florida, Texas, Louisiana and other locations, including several militarv bases Designated as ‘Contra Craft,” these shipments were not to be inspected. When some authority wasn’t clued in and made an arrest, powerful strings were pulled on behalf of dropping the case, acquittal, reduced sentence, or deportation.

1980s to early 1990s, AFGHANISTAN

ClA-supported Moujahedeen rebels engaged heavily in drug trafficking while fighting against the Soviet-supported govemment and its plans to reform the very backward Afghan society. The Agency’s principal client was Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, one of the leading druglords and leading heroin refiner. CIA supplied trucks and mules, which had carried arms into Afghanistan, were used to transport opium to laboratories along the Afghan Pakistan border. The output provided up to one half of the heroin used annually in the United States and three-quarters of that used in Western Europe. US officials admitted in 1990 that they had failed to investigate or take action against the drug operabon because of a desire not to offend their Pakistani and Afghan allies. In 1993, an official of the DEA called Afghanistan the new Colombia of the drug world.

MlD-1980s to early 199Os, HAITI

While working to keep key Haitian military and political leaders in power, the CIA turned a blind eye to their clients’ drug trafficking. In 1986, the Agency added some more names to its payroll by creating a new Haitian organization, the National Intelligence Service (SIN). SIN was purportedly created to fight the cocaine trade, though SIN officers themselves engaged in the trafficking, a trade aided and abetted by some of the Haitian military and political leaders.

-E. Borodin


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Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22053548 - 08/06/15 01:12 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Here is another link to the same movie in case you prefer youtube



I encourage you to actually watch this film, I encourage you to actually understand the drug war so we can end it.

-E. Borodin


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Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22053651 - 08/06/15 01:42 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
At one point you said "why would the CIA risk selling drugs" first it's not a risk because it's the CIA and DEA who have permits to handle as much drugs as they want, they are not risking anything, and the government knows the CIA deals drugs...




If the Inspector General finds out that the CIA or DEA are selling drugs, they will put a stop to it real fast and people will lose their jobs and go to jail.  Their permits do not cover sales.

Every federal agency has their own division of Inspector General looking over their shoulders.  These guys are professional auditors, and they are very good at their jobs. 

Quote:

Look at Iran contra




That's a bit before my time - and they did get caught and heads (sort of) rolled.

These days with cell phones and cameras everywhere, it is much more difficult to get away with shady things.



Quote:

Grabbing any shred of evidence?, have you read any other post on this thread?




I have read every post in this thread.


Quote:

Have you ever done the least bit of research on drugs and the drug war?




I have been active in drug policy reform for 20 years.


Quote:

Ex-CIA agents will admit everything as they have before, regardless it's obvious that this is what's going on, and if you have ever done any in depth research on the drug war you would know the CIA are notorious drug dealers, seriously read a book or watch a documentary on the drug war, I promise the CIA gets credit where it's due.





Which ex-CIA agents have come out and said this?

Quote:

Are you familiar with MKULTRA? This was more CIA drug manipulation.





I am very familiar with MKULTRA - I have read Acid Dreams, and even have visited a house in SF where this occurred.  By visited I mean walked by and been like....damn there's the house!



Quote:

Again you find it hard to believe that the people who control the drugs are not taking advantage of their contraband status to fund rebel armies fighting their enemies without congressional or public approval, when they have been caught doing it thousands of times...





I don't believe anything without evidence.

If you have evidence that the CIA or DEA is currently selling drugs, please share it.


I'd say before you think that your precious government and CIA and DEA are not global drug dealers that maybe you should do.some research on the topic.

Quote:

I'll make it easy, in this link is a credible documentary on the drug war called American drug war:the last white hope
The whole film.is for free in the link, it breaks down the drug war objectively, and surprise surprise, the CIA are at the top of the drug dealing empire.




The internet is too slow to watch videos here in this tiny town in Mexico.



Quote:

I'll leave you with a mckenna lecture





Nearly everything that mckenna said was wrong.


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
Mycologist
Male User Gallery
Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,276
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Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22053707 - 08/06/15 01:56 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
http://www.nytimes.com/1993/12/03/opinion/03iht-edlarry.html

This is a net York Times article titled "the CIA drug connection is as old as the agency"





This happened when I was in high school, and the information came from a sketchy unverified source.


Quote:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_involvement_in_Contra_cocaine_trafficking

Why did you not include this wiki link in your post?, you must have seen it






From your source:  A CIA internal investigation found that agents had worked with drug traffickers to support the Contra program, but found no evidence of any conspiracy by CIA or its employees to bring drugs into the United States.

Everyone agrees they did that - it's shady and they got busted, but it's a far cry from the CIA selling drugs.


Quote:

How much evidence do you need?





Anything that indicates that the CIA or DEA are currently involved in selling drugs would suffice.



Quote:

It would be harder to prove that they are not drug distributors.





You can't prove a negative.  Certainly some CIA and DEA agents sell drugs - but if they get caught by their boss, they'll be fired and criminally charged.

Quote:

If you don't think the CIA and DEA are drug distributors that's your choice, but anybody educated in the matter would not agree with you.




Without any current evidence?????


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OfflineRebelutionsssss
Mdmazing
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 07/23/14
Posts: 13,137
Loc: San Francisco
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
Re: Flakka: Hallucinogenic Designer Drug Already Sold In Several States; FBI Warns Street Drug Is Strong [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #22053717 - 08/06/15 01:57 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

What's up Alan :hug: nice seeing you


--------------------
:
To define is to confine.


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