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lessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
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Re: dmt and salvia? [Re: healing]
#21947221 - 07/15/15 12:48 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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healing said:
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Coincidentiaoppositorum said: I argree, with salvia there is this uncomfortable skin sensation that I always interpret as a river washing over me.
To me, it feels like I am a drop of water dripping down the stem of a flower.
@ to OP asking about euphoria/no euphoria on Salvia:
Well Salvia is rarely if ever euphoric... , I've never felt euphoric except 1-2 times on it
and those 1-2 times was when I smoked in social setting, kept laughing, and it hurt like hell too and kept laughing still
So you laugh from pain, not exactly euphoric
But maybe the same way as mushrooms, you laugh from pain there too... , laugh from not understanding, from going TOO deep etc.
So the difference seems to be no euphoria on Salvia usually, it's not like traditional psychedelics there at all
I've tried lsd,mushrooms,25i,and a DOx once too iirc , all give stimulation
There's no stimulation on Salvia - like an awake lucid dream, things vanish in air in front of you, no emotions
There's no euphoria , no joy emotions , and to bring anything back is almost impossible (like a lucid dream... you cant bring stuff back there either usually)
So if you want euphoria Salvia is not for you likely, except in social setting, you may get the best laugh of your life and feel a lot of confusion/love at the same time gives the same love and new vision of room,yourself and everyone you see as other psychedelics for me
You may fall in love with your washing machine if you are not careful (any object you may fall in love with, due to its beauty when you come back)
A roll of paper may be beautiful after you come back , just like ordinary psychedelics
The only difference is just Salvia feels like a step up.... like a highdose trip each time So it changes you as much too , you don't get back from high doses without changes to the 'ego' (perceived self) usually
Another reason I can only smoke salvia once every 1-2 years or so, but I always wondered why I didn't smoke it earlier
It is truly epic in social setting, as you can see on youtube vids, if you know a few people who are scientific in their minds(not scared types) Best laughs of my life...
So in all, the only euphoria is when you come back and all is new, every object in your room is new, yourself is new, everyone you know is new. Your thoughts are new. + The laughs that can be very very enjoyable, happens each time for me
Better than weed cookies that way IMO , it's a trip you'll never forget
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lessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
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It felt 95% like a good LSD trip for me when I tripped with a friend, but only if you trip with a sitter that can keep cool and not mess with you
You need a professional sitter for Salvia... not one that asks 'are you ok' , that messes you up
Really like this way of Salvia tripping for sure, might even be my fav psychedelic this way
The perception of the world, carpet, walls, music, yourself, others shifts almost exactly like a normal trip for me... Felt 100% psychedelic for me each time , and a very cheap psychedelic.. $1 a trip or so
The only problem is the risk of overdoing such an intense and cheap psychedelic...
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lessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
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The last really cool thing about Salvia is, if you think your normal shrooms/Lsd are psychedelic, you've seen nothing yet
Just wait till you try Salvia.... it will dissolve the room each time, like a waking dream
send you back and forth in time etc...
it's always a step up, the intensity can seem intimidating..
(I used to be a fan of high dose LSD trips, could never take too many hits, but Salvia is a step up from that... much more psychedelic each time, blows minds each time)
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lessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
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Trichome_Delta9


Registered: 12/30/14
Posts: 1,969
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lessismore you seem to be just trying to warn people but you can honestly just get a small feel for this substance by putting a little bit of leaf in a bowl and starting there. beginners should just simply try to stay away from the extracts. lessismore i appreciate all the info but you sort of add this hesitation and anxiety with all the warnings when i seriously have yet to have experienced anything to make me fear this substance. i get more of a "fear" reading "bad" trips than i do when actually experience the drug itself.
i understand your caution but it seems like a bit much IMO. also you seem to be liking it more since ive first started reading on here.
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healing
Strangest



Registered: 02/22/11
Posts: 6,565
Loc: the universe, the milky w...
Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
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Quote:
lessismore said:
Quote:
healing said:
Quote:
Coincidentiaoppositorum said: I argree, with salvia there is this uncomfortable skin sensation that I always interpret as a river washing over me.
To me, it feels like I am a drop of water dripping down the stem of a flower.
@ to OP asking about euphoria/no euphoria on Salvia:
Well Salvia is rarely if ever euphoric... , I've never felt euphoric except 1-2 times on it
and those 1-2 times was when I smoked in social setting, kept laughing, and it hurt like hell too and kept laughing still
So you laugh from pain, not exactly euphoric
But maybe the same way as mushrooms, you laugh from pain there too... , laugh from not understanding, from going TOO deep etc.
So the difference seems to be no euphoria on Salvia usually, it's not like traditional psychedelics there at all
I've tried lsd,mushrooms,25i,and a DOx once too iirc , all give stimulation
There's no stimulation on Salvia - like an awake lucid dream, things vanish in air in front of you, no emotions
There's no euphoria , no joy emotions , and to bring anything back is almost impossible (like a lucid dream... you cant bring stuff back there either usually)
So if you want euphoria Salvia is not for you likely, except in social setting, you may get the best laugh of your life and feel a lot of confusion/love at the same time gives the same love and new vision of room,yourself and everyone you see as other psychedelics for me
You may fall in love with your washing machine if you are not careful (any object you may fall in love with, due to its beauty when you come back)
A roll of paper may be beautiful after you come back , just like ordinary psychedelics
The only difference is just Salvia feels like a step up.... like a highdose trip each time So it changes you as much too , you don't get back from high doses without changes to the 'ego' (perceived self) usually
Another reason I can only smoke salvia once every 1-2 years or so, but I always wondered why I didn't smoke it earlier
It is truly epic in social setting, as you can see on youtube vids, if you know a few people who are scientific in their minds(not scared types) Best laughs of my life...
So in all, the only euphoria is when you come back and all is new, every object in your room is new, yourself is new, everyone you know is new. Your thoughts are new. + The laughs that can be very very enjoyable, happens each time for me
Better than weed cookies that way IMO , it's a trip you'll never forget
I don't know what you're talking about. Salvia has always been extremely euphoric for me. For me, salvia just feels right.
-------------------- Open mind, open heart, open book.
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lessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
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Re: dmt and salvia? [Re: healing]
#21949653 - 07/15/15 10:22 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Depends on the person I suppose, I was speaking about how it doesn't induce the same 'emotional disturbances' as a normal trip usually
It's very hard to describe really... , very similar and still not quite
Very psychedelic for sure, people who say it's not psychedelic should try it again It's the most psychedelic psychedelic I've tried for sure, and it has some/many of the same afterglow effects.
It's harder to bring back stuff unless you know it, but so is it with them all I have had many spiritual revelations since taking psychedelics, and Salvia is not excluded there, seems at least as good - just harder to define what happens. All the changes are after the trip, never revealed in the trip usually for me.
It may open the mind, a lot, to new ways of viewing the world/yourself like any psychedelic. Very high awareness sometimes, can be very enjoyable too, and can bring big confusion as well (growing spiritually is not always pleasant...)
The thing I don't like about Salvia is it can cause a foggy head sensation that can persist for days, just like weed (but unlike any other psychedelic, LSD doesn't do this for me). That can be very unpleasant for me, causes me to stay away from Salvia generally
Then there is the confusion too that can last weeks sometimes, but maybe I'm just unlucky with it
Rarely do I feel it increases clarity, it may increase awareness at the cost of confusion
Edited by lessismore (07/15/15 10:53 PM)
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lessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
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Quote:
Trichome_Delta9 said: lessismore you seem to be just trying to warn people but you can honestly just get a small feel for this substance by putting a little bit of leaf in a bowl and starting there. beginners should just simply try to stay away from the extracts. lessismore i appreciate all the info but you sort of add this hesitation and anxiety with all the warnings when i seriously have yet to have experienced anything to make me fear this substance. i get more of a "fear" reading "bad" trips than i do when actually experience the drug itself.
i understand your caution but it seems like a bit much IMO. also you seem to be liking it more since ive first started reading on here.
The day I find out if Salvia can cause a pure egodeath is the day I find out if I can recommend it to people :-)
Egodeath is not for everyone that's for sure
It may change lives around 180. But then again so can weed(it can probably cause egodeath too)
Weed and psychedelics are really only for certain people it seems They can do much damage to some people when overdone
I wonder how many of those school kids tripping Salvia 80x extract on youtube come out of it intact?
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wolf8312
Pennywise


Registered: 10/01/12
Posts: 2,356
Last seen: 4 days, 1 hour
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Quote:
lessismore said: Very psychedelic for sure, people who say it's not psychedelic should try it again It's the most psychedelic psychedelic I've tried for sure, and it has some/many of the same afterglow effects.
I did it quite a bit from 5x to 25x and I couldn't tell you how many times I used it.
Powerful yes to the point of scaring me off it, but when I say 'psychedelic' I mean really in the sense of LSD, mescaline, DMT and those with the rainbow colored visuals that make one trip as I never did on salvia.
I guess its a semantic divergence of opinion but for me salvia was in a class all on its own, and so utterly different to the other psychedelics I have tried that I honestly would find it confusing to place Salvia in the 'psychedelic' family. It just didnt remind me of any of them.
Salvia unlike any psychedelics confused me to the point of not knowing who, what, why, or when I was, but maybe I just haven't seen the psychedelic side of it. All I can go on is personal experience and my own definition of what psychedelic actually means. To me it is not or was not psychedelic. The closest thing that I ever tried to salvia was actually huffing solvents when I was a teen, with those crazy 'dreams' that carry you away without you knowing where you have gone. Only much more confusing and terrifying.
I tend to see it more as a hallucinogen unique to itself.
Would be interested to know by what criteria do you yourself judge it to in fact be psychedelic?
-------------------- "I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of." Pennywise the dancing clown
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lessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
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Re: dmt and salvia? [Re: wolf8312]
#21955120 - 07/17/15 08:15 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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My definition of psychedelic is hallucinogenic
But Salvia is extremely hallucinogenic, psychedelic doesn't guarantee any thing (i.e. doesn't guarantee mind expansion which they often do)
So a hallucinogen without guarantees.
Salvia can give me the classic LSD visuals in a few ways. Becoming one with room. Morphing room. Morping objects. Objects taking form as other objects. My hands repeating into infinity. My hands becoming other objects. My arms becoming the walls of another room, now I am in a new reality that I can walk in. Swirling carpet / sliding carpet in intense ways. Geometric patterns in carpet/objects/my hands/arms etc.
It's like a waking lucid dream... feels so real
LSD can feel 100% real too each time, to the point you cannot tell it is visuals, just take a high dose (extremely high dose, 400ug+)
Same for shrooms, at a point your visuals become real.
The good effects of classical psychedelics I have yet to experience on Salvia, it hasn't appeared meaningful to me yet. But LSD didn't appear meaningful to me either before 50-100 trips or so where it lead to an awakening suddenly. It seems we have to learn to let go with any psychedelic before we even remotely can start to understand the molecule. I haven't learned fully to let go with Salvia yet though, no breakthrough yet, except being transferred out of body each time.
Psychedelics also have dangers, and Salvia has its dangers. The danger i.e. is that you can smoke it everyday or several times a week and disassociate completely from this reality. It will take a long time to regain consciousness after a trip. It can often feel like a high dose mushrooms/LSD in that regard.
It can expand the mind too like classical psychedelics, like weed etc.
But how do we classify psychedelics? - many drugs can expand the mind is it the drug experience, or is it the drug?
As many people claim weed has expanded their minds as psychedelics
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chaka333
mountain grunt.


Registered: 07/16/12
Posts: 1,097
Loc: on a hill in a pasture.
Last seen: 4 months, 20 days
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Ive always explained the two as being very similar yet on opposite ends of a spectrum. Both are intense, but as stated earlier in the thread dmt is on the light side as salvia is way off on the dark side. Ive had some wild rides in salvia world.
-------------------- If you want to achieve greatness Stop asking for permission.
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lessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
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Re: dmt and salvia? [Re: chaka333]
#21955425 - 07/17/15 10:03 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Don't smoke Salvia while listening to Psykovsky dark psytrance ;-)
It's not pleasant lol
It mindfucked me into my walls and couch, hurt like hell, yet I still laughed. Got squeezed into the wall and stuck in the wall Can be dark :-)
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wolf8312
Pennywise


Registered: 10/01/12
Posts: 2,356
Last seen: 4 days, 1 hour
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Quote:
lessismore said: My definition of psychedelic is hallucinogenic
But Salvia is extremely hallucinogenic, psychedelic doesn't guarantee any thing (i.e. doesn't guarantee mind expansion which they often do)
So a hallucinogen without guarantees.
Salvia can give me the classic LSD visuals in a few ways. Becoming one with room. Morphing room. Morping objects. Objects taking form as other objects. My hands repeating into infinity. My hands becoming other objects. My arms becoming the walls of another room, now I am in a new reality that I can walk in. Swirling carpet / sliding carpet in intense ways. Geometric patterns in carpet/objects/my hands/arms etc.
It's like a waking lucid dream... feels so real
LSD can feel 100% real too each time, to the point you cannot tell it is visuals, just take a high dose (extremely high dose, 400ug+)
Same for shrooms, at a point your visuals become real.
The good effects of classical psychedelics I have yet to experience on Salvia, it hasn't appeared meaningful to me yet. But LSD didn't appear meaningful to me either before 50-100 trips or so where it lead to an awakening suddenly. It seems we have to learn to let go with any psychedelic before we even remotely can start to understand the molecule. I haven't learned fully to let go with Salvia yet though, no breakthrough yet, except being transferred out of body each time.
Psychedelics also have dangers, and Salvia has its dangers. The danger i.e. is that you can smoke it everyday or several times a week and disassociate completely from this reality. It will take a long time to regain consciousness after a trip. It can often feel like a high dose mushrooms/LSD in that regard.
It can expand the mind too like classical psychedelics, like weed etc.
But how do we classify psychedelics? - many drugs can expand the mind is it the drug experience, or is it the drug?
As many people claim weed has expanded their minds as psychedelics
Yeah we definitely just dont share the same definition of what a psychedelic is buddy. I know this is a very subjective thing.
I used to define psychedelic as 'mind manifesting' as we are kind of supposed to but I began to find this definition very problematic as so many regular hallucinogens that are nothing like each other also manifest the mind and will cause you to hallucinate.
So for me LSD is both a hallucinogen and a psychedelic, but salvia only a hallucinogen. I'd place it more in dissociative catagory than I would psychedelic to be honest as although obviously you wouldn't go under the knife on salvia, it did in me produce a kind of disociative experience!
Even psychedelics I feel, should be dived into two distinct groups with DMT and mushrooms (etc) being on one side and the mescaline and LSD (etc) experience on the other. Explaining the differences is time consuming and something I have attempted too many times on the shroomery already to make the writing enjoyable, but for brevitys sake, a psychedelic to me is something instantly recognizable as being at least related to other very familiar and distinct molecules within its own family (psychedelic).
I dont consider cannabis to be a psychedelic and class that too as a distinct hallucinogen.
I know I must seem a bit pedantic here but I feel that when communicating together, in order to differentiate between these various experiences we have to draw the line somewhere and clearly define our terms.
For me its something like this.
Psychedelics
Mescaline DMT LSD LSA etc
Dissociatives
Ketamine, DXM, PCP
Deliriants
Scoplamine, atropine, (datura, nightshade etc)
Hallucinagens
All of the above, Cannabis, Salvia etc
The halluninagen catagory encompasses every distinct chemical and group but I also use this catagory mainly to lump together molecules that are not so easily grouped but I dont feel should be placed into catogaries that they often confusingly are, as with cannabis being placed with the psychedelics for example.
I dont know quite where to place salvia and cannabis I just dont feel it intuitively correct to lump them in with psychedelics. This is just really though how my own mind diffrentiates between all of these experiences, I know where most of them go, but something like salvia at least for me belongs all by itself as as being utterly unique.
Sir Nerd-ington out!
(ha I dont take all this shit as seriously as it might seem! Just explaining myself!)
-------------------- "I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of." Pennywise the dancing clown
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lessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
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There's no difference, only to certain minds
Other minds can get the same effect on any of these drugs, lsd,mescaline,dmt,salvia,shrooms
My lsd and shrooms trips are 95% similar in visuals and content, and learning, and what I tend to do in them I wouldn't be able to tell them apart except for bodyload..
If you say mind manifesting, how they manifest depends on your culture so if you're a scientist you want to categorize them
If you're a hippie it doesn't matter which one you take, they all get you high and can give the same kinda high often
If you're a shaman you can get there on any of these tools, weed too which can also be very psychedelic
If you're a buddhist you can get there on any of them too incl weed, or without them
Mind manifesting to me means that the mind can produce the experience with/without the drug. Any any of these drugs may give the same experience, depending on your SET (previous experience)
They all show your subconscious it seems... they're unpredictable in many people
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wolf8312
Pennywise


Registered: 10/01/12
Posts: 2,356
Last seen: 4 days, 1 hour
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Quote:
lessismore said: There's no difference, only to certain minds
Other minds can get the same effect on any of these drugs, lsd,mescaline,dmt,salvia,shrooms
My lsd and shrooms trips are 95% similar in visuals and content, and learning, and what I tend to do in them I wouldn't be able to tell them apart except for bodyload..
If you say mind manifesting, how they manifest depends on your culture so if you're a scientist you want to categorize them
If you're a hippie it doesn't matter which one you take, they all get you high and can give the same kinda high often
If you're a shaman you can get there on any of these tools, weed too which can also be very psychedelic
If you're a buddhist you can get there on any of them too incl weed, or without them
Mind manifesting to me means that the mind can produce the experience with/without the drug. Any any of these drugs may give the same experience, depending on your SET (previous experience)
They all show your subconscious it seems... they're unpredictable in many people
You mean in regards to salvia and things like LSD?
I just feel that 'mind manifesting' is too broad a description to apply if you need to differentiate between what can be very specific experiences. If you tell me salvia and LSD are both psychedelics to be honest the word loses all meaning completely and I might as well just say hallucinogen.
I understand it might be difficult for some to differentiate between LSD and DMT etc (they are all psychedlics) but not with something like salvia which needs IMO to be in a clearly defined group of its own. Thats all I am saying.
I'm pretty confident I could tell the difference between LSD and DMT though mainly because of the hyperspace aspect. I've never had entity contact with LSD of the same kind I have had with Shrooms and DMT. Not to say I havent had Godly experiences with demons and all kinds of delusions with LSD it just wasnt the hyperspace dimension which for me is very distinct.
I do agree though and as I said in another post DMT and Salvia do share many similarities and in some spookey way do seem to be linked somehow.
-------------------- "I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of." Pennywise the dancing clown
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lessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
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Re: dmt and salvia? [Re: wolf8312]
#21955905 - 07/17/15 12:20 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Aint seen hyperspace and entities in free air? take more LSD... been there done that
500-1000ug is your dose
There's nothing that cannot happen on a high dose LSD, nothing. You can go to hyperspace everytime and you feel like floating upwards/flying in the air.
I would say any psychedelic can be equally intense to me, incl weed, and even edible weed. Salvia is no more intense than weed for me. Weed can be very intense psychologically.
Some just measure intensity by visuals, some psychedelics are "usually" more visual, but not always
I have had 500ug+ LSD with few visuals before, sometimes you get no visuals at all
Few people just try a -high dose- of LSD, or a -high dose- of weed.
Grav bong, or bucket to smoke out of, then take 3-5 hits of the strongest stuff you can get, then you will agree weed can be psychedelic likely.
Take 5-10 hits of LSD, then you will agree LSD can show you anything
Edited by lessismore (07/17/15 12:26 PM)
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AIRDOG



Registered: 10/16/99
Posts: 3,493
Loc: world's shroom capital
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Quote:
Salvia is no more intense than weed for me
then its bunk
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wolf8312
Pennywise


Registered: 10/01/12
Posts: 2,356
Last seen: 4 days, 1 hour
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Quote:
lessismore said: Aint seen hyperspace and entities in free air? take more LSD... been there done that
500-1000ug is your dose
There's nothing that cannot happen on a high dose LSD, nothing. You can go to hyperspace every time and you feel like floating upwards/flying in the air.
I would say any psychedelic can be equally intense to me, incl weed, and even edible weed. Salvia is no more intense than weed for me. Weed can be very intense psychologically.
Some just measure intensity by visuals, some psychedelics are "usually" more visual, but not always
I have had 500ug+ LSD with few visuals before, sometimes you get no visuals at all
Few people just try a -high dose- of LSD, or a -high dose- of weed.
Grav bong, or bucket to smoke out of, then take 3-5 hits of the strongest stuff you can get, then you will agree weed can be psychedelic likely.
Take 5-10 hits of LSD, then you will agree LSD can show you anything
Again it isn't just about seeing entities because as I said I have indeed seen and encountered what could constitute 'entities' (angels demons creatures people etc) with LSD on high doses I just haven't been to hyperspace and seen those very distinct creatures that constitute that very distinct space that one will encounter on DMT or a high dose of Anahuasca or mushrooms.
Quote:
Grav bong, or bucket to smoke out of, then take 3-5 hits of the strongest stuff you can get, then you will agree weed can be psychedelic likely.
Please dont assume or tell me what I have and havent experienced dude I am not talking here about potency or how many bong rips one can take.
You could eat a quater ounce of potent cannabis and still not experience anything close to an LSD trip but you would very likely scare the living crap out of yourself hallucinating out of your mind.
Im saying its still not psychedelic in the sense that I would put cannabis into the same group as LSD or mescaline. That is all.
I am not talking about potency here or how fucked up these things can or cannot make someone or if they make you hallucinate or see and hear things or not.
-------------------- "I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of." Pennywise the dancing clown
Edited by wolf8312 (07/17/15 12:49 PM)
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lessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
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Re: dmt and salvia? [Re: AIRDOG]
#21955961 - 07/17/15 12:37 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
AIRDOG said:
Quote:
Salvia is no more intense than weed for me
then its bunk
Nope it depends on your mind, do you have an 18 year old "oh my gosh im gonna trip its sooo cool mind" , or "today I just want to have fun, im gonna take the strongest stuff i can find with no tolerance in my grav bong bucket huge coke bottle hits until I have to sit/lay down"
After you have tried a bit of most psychedelics you usually find you can 'get there' on any of them
It's the mind that counts, you can get there without them too... I can get very high in meditation or lucid dreaming
But all this is unbelieveable to a mind that hasn't tried opening itself in multiple ways
It's NOT the tool that counts, you can use any tool
People see the demon/devils on weed you know, girls etc.
Btw. the creatures I saw on LSD looked like those on DMT, but does that make them good entities? Talking to random entities on drugs are usually not too safe, and I wouldn't encorage it. It's like it's a club you have to be apart, to take DMT and talk to the entities sometimes, else you 'havent tripped'
But LSD can for sure take you there, as far as mushrooms/DMT , it's not the tool that counts It's your set,setting
You can get there with meditation
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lessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
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A high dose of LSD can be very similar to a lucid dream for me, you think it's real, and sometimes you can control your reality and manifest , become aware of the oneness
You are the walls, the entities, your screen (if typing on the pc)
Then it all starts to melt when you become aware of the oneness, you now master your reality
You can master your reality on any psychedelic, or without (lucid dreaming)
In fact lucid dreaming is the most amazing 'mind manifesting' experience I have ever had, together with out of body
No words can do it justice, sure psychedelics are just as nice at times, but still not quite, flying anywhere is the best feeling in the world
Only people who have tried a lucid dream/real OBE knows what I mean here... , you remember your home, you remember not being this body you remember coming into your body and using your senses and forgetting your real existance
Can be very emotional, once you have one LD/OBE you remember it for life. People practice them too, I've been practicing them for many years, flying in my dreams.
Psychedelics is just an alternate mind manifesting experience for me, but I like the control that LDs give, Salvia is very much like a lucid dream - just no control , so not pleasant so often
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