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daz01
Learning


Registered: 09/30/10
Posts: 4,652
Loc: Scotland
Last seen: 7 hours, 59 minutes
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Panaeolus olivaceus in Scotland!
#21940510 - 07/14/15 03:29 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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This year, Panaeolus olivaceus are fruiting. It has been a pretty dull time in terms of Panaeolus, in the last year year or two, it has been 2~ years/seasons since they last fruited.




I am very confident in my ability to distinguish them between Panaeolina foenisecii. They can look very similar to Panaeolina foenisecii and Panaeolus cinctulus. Mean features; pruinose stipe, gills are grey-greenish, red stipe.
For every 10 Panaeolus olivaceus, there is probably 100 Panaeolina foenisecii so it can very frustrating to ID.
-------------------- Pain is temporary. It may last for a minute or an hour or a day or even a year but eventually it will subside and something else will take its place. If I quit, however, it will last forever.
Edited by daz01 (07/14/15 03:33 AM)
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catnip40
xฬ็



Registered: 03/09/12
Posts: 703
Last seen: 8 days, 16 hours
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Re: Panaeolus olivaceus in Scotland! [Re: daz01]
#21941399 - 07/14/15 10:04 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Nice
Do you ever find any Panaeolus fimicola?
I have been finding a mixed collection of pans in my yard the last couple years, all black spored when matured and when young they are greyish and pale/cream even when very young
I just think mine a mix between fimicola, olivaceus, or cinctulus (and foenisecii for sure) but I've never really nailed it for sure but you really can't without a scope with these pans
None of these panaeolus besides cinctulus and foes are listed to grow here, however it is the right climate
Edited by catnip40 (07/14/15 10:06 AM)
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Byrain

Registered: 01/07/10
Posts: 9,664
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Re: Panaeolus olivaceus in Scotland! [Re: daz01]
#21941406 - 07/14/15 10:06 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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What makes these P. olivaceus and not P. cinctulus or P. fimicola?
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daz01
Learning


Registered: 09/30/10
Posts: 4,652
Loc: Scotland
Last seen: 7 hours, 59 minutes
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Re: Panaeolus olivaceus in Scotland! [Re: Byrain]
#21941486 - 07/14/15 10:30 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Here, cinctulus are alot bigger, olivaceus are very petite in all stage growths. The gills have a green, lime hue. Wet cinctulus are darker in colour, olivaceus are more caramel and grey.
I have hundreds of Cinctulus in my backyard, I will do a comparison soon.
-------------------- Pain is temporary. It may last for a minute or an hour or a day or even a year but eventually it will subside and something else will take its place. If I quit, however, it will last forever.
Edited by daz01 (07/14/15 10:31 AM)
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Byrain

Registered: 01/07/10
Posts: 9,664
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Re: Panaeolus olivaceus in Scotland! [Re: daz01]
#21941516 - 07/14/15 10:39 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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The size is a plastic feature and quite variable in Panaeolus, the green hue of the gills doesn't seem very important either and would need careful examination of several collections to determine if it is or not. The literature doesn't mention it at least. How do you know the Panaeolus cinctulus in your yard are that? How about P. fimicola? Have any of these collections been scoped or sequenced?
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daz01
Learning


Registered: 09/30/10
Posts: 4,652
Loc: Scotland
Last seen: 7 hours, 59 minutes
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Re: Panaeolus olivaceus in Scotland! [Re: Byrain]
#21942057 - 07/14/15 01:28 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I compare them to the Panaeolus cinctulus that grow in the dung piles, both identical in appearance (dung and grass dwelling). Is there any other active dung Panaeolus sp. in the UK?
-------------------- Pain is temporary. It may last for a minute or an hour or a day or even a year but eventually it will subside and something else will take its place. If I quit, however, it will last forever.
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Byrain

Registered: 01/07/10
Posts: 9,664
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Re: Panaeolus olivaceus in Scotland! [Re: daz01]
#21942087 - 07/14/15 01:38 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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There is probably P. fimicola in the UK and you might have P. subfirmus too which occurs on dung and should look a lot like P. cinctulus (Excluding the spore size), but I'm not sure if its active or not. I can see the finds here not being P. cinctulus, they don't really look right, but Panaeolus is the genus that will fool even the experts. Without looking at the spores I wouldn't have a clue how to distinguish P. olivaceus from P. fimicola...
There is also Panaeolus guttulatus and P. reticulatus in Europe, but they might not look at all similar for all I know. Do keep an eye out for an Panaeolus with yellow droplets on the gill edge (P. guttulatus), you should be able to see it with a hand lens. It would be really awesome if someone found a good collection of that and saved it.
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daz01
Learning


Registered: 09/30/10
Posts: 4,652
Loc: Scotland
Last seen: 7 hours, 59 minutes
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Re: Panaeolus olivaceus in Scotland! [Re: Byrain]
#21947325 - 07/15/15 01:12 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Thanks Bryain, never knew there is so many other European Panaeolus!
-------------------- Pain is temporary. It may last for a minute or an hour or a day or even a year but eventually it will subside and something else will take its place. If I quit, however, it will last forever.
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