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Offlinekoods
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Re: Guns control, where do you stand? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #21936911 - 07/13/15 11:34 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

koods said:
The founders solution for a tyrannical government was not the second amendment, it was Article I, II and III of the constitution which set up an elected president, elected members of the house, appointed senators, and a unelected judiciary.




It was all of those, including the Second Amendment.

The writings of the founders are numerous and clear. You need merely open your eyes and read them.




The founders specifically protected the government against uprisings of citizens. Treason is a constitutional crime.

The constitution allows for the suspension of due process in times of rebellion:
The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.

The founders seemed to have a very unsympathetic opinion of people rising up against the US government.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Guns control, where do you stand? [Re: Mr.GuessWork]
    #21936918 - 07/13/15 11:36 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Mr.GuessWork said:
Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

Mr.GuessWork said:
Again dude, you're missing the big picture.




Again dude, I'm not.




How about a counter argument or a clarification of what you disagree with then? All you've done to try to support your argument is post a few quotes out of context and call me obtuse.




The quotes are accurate (and more than enough to show the foolishness of your position) and obtuse was indeed the correct word choice.

Seeing as they had left their home country because of... wait for it... an oppressive government, I'm sure that they never gave a thought to protecting themselves from yet another oppressive government. 

I mean really... WTF?  :lmafo:

Your opinion on this is worthless. You don't get to re-write history to suit your fantasies.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibledaytripper05
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Re: Guns control, where do you stand? [Re: Mr.GuessWork]
    #21936925 - 07/13/15 11:37 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

US government can't effectively run the Post Office. The multi billion dollar healthcare.gov was a debacle, at best. Our federally regulated education system is second class to the rest of the world, even by own standards. All politicians take bribes in the form of lobbying to further their own agenda. I could go on with the list of things we entrust with the government that is continually hurting out economy and national prosperity.

...yet liberals continually seem to think throwing more money, more power, more control to the government is going to magically fix anything.

I do logic and math for a living. Liberal logic just doesn't add up. If it looks like shit and smells like shit, well you know how the story goes....


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Guns control, where do you stand? [Re: koods]
    #21936928 - 07/13/15 11:37 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

koods said:
The founders solution for a tyrannical government was not the second amendment, it was Article I, II and III of the constitution which set up an elected president, elected members of the house, appointed senators, and a unelected judiciary.




It was all of those, including the Second Amendment.

The writings of the founders are numerous and clear. You need merely open your eyes and read them.




The founders specifically protected the government against uprisings of citizens. Treason is a constitutional crime.

The constitution allows for the suspension of due process in times of rebellion:
The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.

The founders seemed to have a very unsympathetic opinion of people rising up against the US government.




So says the guy who clearly hasn't spent much time reading their writings.

But hey... you go with that.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Guns control, where do you stand? [Re: daytripper05]
    #21936930 - 07/13/15 11:38 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

daytripper05 said:
well you know how the story goes....




Clearly they don't.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibledaytripper05
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Re: Guns control, where do you stand? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #21936948 - 07/13/15 11:42 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

daytripper05 said:
well you know how the story goes....




Clearly they don't.




I shit you not... Every time I say that in person to a liberal they look at me dead in the eye and say "actually yes, we need to go further down the rabbit hole. We don't give the goverment ENOUGH power to actually make any real changed." Of course by government they just mean liberal democrat presidents. Not the "GOP tea-bagger conservatives" that control both houses of congress....as if everyone that is for limited government is a teaparty conservative.


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OfflinePatlal
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Re: Guns control, where do you stand? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #21936953 - 07/13/15 11:44 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Too all anti-gun people:

You won't convince them with logic. It's an emotional attachment to guns. They don't care about  logic anymore. Throw all the stats and example you want,  it's not gonna make a difference.

They're emo about guns. you can't stop that with logic. Kinda like how a parent will always love his kid even though he a convicted murderer.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Guns control, where do you stand? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #21936961 - 07/13/15 11:46 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

What exactly is wrong with the post office? Considering their mandate to deliver mail to every address in the US, they do a really good job. It's hard to run an efficient operation when they have to compete with commercial delivery services with one hand tied behind their back.
Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

koods said:
The founders solution for a tyrannical government was not the second amendment, it was Article I, II and III of the constitution which set up an elected president, elected members of the house, appointed senators, and a unelected judiciary.




It was all of those, including the Second Amendment.

The writings of the founders are numerous and clear. You need merely open your eyes and read them.




The founders specifically protected the government against uprisings of citizens. Treason is a constitutional crime.

The constitution allows for the suspension of due process in times of rebellion:
The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.

The founders seemed to have a very unsympathetic opinion of people rising up against the US government.




So says the guy who clearly hasn't spent much time reading their writings.

But hey... you go with that.




Their writings are a mix of different and contradictory options. They argued amongst themselves as to what would be included in the constitution  which in the end is the only document that legally matters.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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InvisibleMr.GuessWork
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Re: Guns control, where do you stand? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #21936965 - 07/13/15 11:47 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:

...

The quotes are accurate (and more than enough to show the foolishness of your position) and obtuse was indeed the correct word choice.

Seeing as they had left their home country because of... wait for it... an oppressive government, I'm sure that they never gave a thought to protecting themselves from yet another oppressive government. 

I mean really... WTF?  :lmafo:

Your opinion on this is worthless. You don't get to re-write history to suit your fantasies.





I see you don't know the difference between "inaccurate" and "out of context". Look it up. The only arguments you've put any effort into are personal insults against me, and I didn't even exist when the amendment was written. It's ironic that you're calling me obtuse when I've already stated many times that thought was given to the issue you're pushing, and all you've done is unclearly restate that you have some vague disagreement with my posts and state that I'm obtuse. At least you don't have to bother with rewriting history to suit your fantasies since you'd refuse to read it anyway. You, sir, are obtuse.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Guns control, where do you stand? [Re: koods]
    #21936969 - 07/13/15 11:49 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

This is essentially where the second amendment protections stand at this time:

"Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose: For example, concealed weapons prohibitions have been upheld under the Amendment or state analogues. The Court’s opinion should not be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms. Miller’s holding that the sorts of weapons protected are those “in common use at the time” finds support in the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of dangerous and unusual weapons"

scalia's majority opinion in Heller vs DC.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Guns control, where do you stand? [Re: koods]
    #21936975 - 07/13/15 11:50 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Fucking Scalia.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Guns control, where do you stand? [Re: Mr.GuessWork]
    #21936979 - 07/13/15 11:51 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Mr.GuessWork said:
Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:

...

The quotes are accurate (and more than enough to show the foolishness of your position) and obtuse was indeed the correct word choice.

Seeing as they had left their home country because of... wait for it... an oppressive government, I'm sure that they never gave a thought to protecting themselves from yet another oppressive government. 

I mean really... WTF?  :lmafo:

Your opinion on this is worthless. You don't get to re-write history to suit your fantasies.





I see you don't know the difference between "inaccurate" and "out of context". Look it up. The only arguments you've put any effort into are personal insults against me, and I didn't even exist when the amendment was written. It's ironic that you're calling me obtuse when I've already stated many times that thought was given to the issue you're pushing, and all you've done is unclearly restate that you have some vague disagreement with my posts and state that I'm obtuse. At least you don't have to bother with rewriting history to suit your fantasies since you'd refuse to read it anyway. You, sir, are obtuse.




Right, because you know better than they.

:laugh2:


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Guns control, where do you stand? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #21936984 - 07/13/15 11:52 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

What an absurd notion that ANYBODY living today could know better than the founding fathers, emirite?


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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Invisibledaytripper05
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Re: Guns control, where do you stand? [Re: Patlal]
    #21936985 - 07/13/15 11:52 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

So ironic.

One breath we hear...

"Healthcare is a right! Legalize weed! Prohibition doesn't work! LGBT people deserve equal rights too! Black lives matter!"

Right after...

"We need more gun safety and regulation. Guns kill people! People don't have the right to own guns. Assault rifles (semi-auto rifles with self loading magazines) kill our children!"

Total hypocrisy. Here's an idea... How about we legalize drugs, give gay people equal rights, and let people own guns. More freedom for everyone, because you know... People that break the law and harm people with guns don't give a shit about the law in the first place. People will just get a gun in the same way they do now.

My state already does background checks. If you don't have a damn near perfect record you have to wait like 3-6 weeks for a more details checked. Luckily for me, I can walk into any store and but a gun off the shelf and walk out the door in 30 minutes.


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InvisibleMr.GuessWork
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Re: Guns control, where do you stand? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #21936989 - 07/13/15 11:53 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

Mr.GuessWork said:
Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:

...

The quotes are accurate (and more than enough to show the foolishness of your position) and obtuse was indeed the correct word choice.

Seeing as they had left their home country because of... wait for it... an oppressive government, I'm sure that they never gave a thought to protecting themselves from yet another oppressive government. 

I mean really... WTF?  :lmafo:

Your opinion on this is worthless. You don't get to re-write history to suit your fantasies.





I see you don't know the difference between "inaccurate" and "out of context". Look it up. The only arguments you've put any effort into are personal insults against me, and I didn't even exist when the amendment was written. It's ironic that you're calling me obtuse when I've already stated many times that thought was given to the issue you're pushing, and all you've done is unclearly restate that you have some vague disagreement with my posts and state that I'm obtuse. At least you don't have to bother with rewriting history to suit your fantasies since you'd refuse to read it anyway. You, sir, are obtuse.




Right, because you know better than they.

:laugh2:




They don't even mention the second amendment in those quotes bro. Quit partying and go to class.

EDIT: They loosely reference it under limited context though, so I'll give you your D.


Edited by Mr.GuessWork (07/13/15 11:55 AM)


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Guns control, where do you stand? [Re: koods]
    #21937008 - 07/13/15 11:57 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
This is essentially where the second amendment protections stand at this time:

"Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose: For example, concealed weapons prohibitions have been upheld under the Amendment or state analogues. The Court’s opinion should not be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms. Miller’s holding that the sorts of weapons protected are those “in common use at the time” finds support in the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of dangerous and unusual weapons"

scalia's majority opinion in Heller vs DC.




Your off-topic desperation reeks. You come across as if all here were demanding the right to their own personal atomic warheads.

There are no 'dangerous and unusual' weapons available to private citizens. I can't think of anyone who has expressed a desire for 'felons and the mentally ill' to have access to firearms.

Fortunately, for those able to reason, weapons “in common use at the time” renders your desires moot.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Guns control, where do you stand? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #21937009 - 07/13/15 11:57 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

BlindSophist said:
Fucking Scalia.




Well, that decision says that it is perfectly fine to ban weapons that are not in common use or are dangerous or unusual. Later he writes that a ban on guns like the M-16 would not necessarily be unconstituional.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Invisibledaytripper05
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Re: Guns control, where do you stand? [Re: koods]
    #21937010 - 07/13/15 11:57 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
What exactly is wrong with the post office? Considering their mandate to deliver mail to every address in the US, they do a really good job. It's hard to run an efficient operation when they have to compete with commercial delivery services with one hand tied behind their back.




Wow dude... really? Do you not read the new about how bad financial shape the post office is in?

Here is just one link of dozens.

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/michael-w-chapman/postal-service-faces-100b-debts-and-unfunded-benefits

UPS and Fedex don't have that problem. UPS posted a profit of $1B the first fiscal quarter this year, while the post office continually loses money despite the ever increasing price of a postage stamp.


Edited by daytripper05 (07/13/15 12:12 PM)


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Guns control, where do you stand? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #21937015 - 07/13/15 11:58 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

BlindSophist said:
What an absurd notion that ANYBODY living today could know better than the founding fathers, emirite?




About what they meant when they said it? Yes, that is absurd. How fortunate they documented their opinions as well as they did.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
Re: Guns control, where do you stand? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #21937018 - 07/13/15 11:59 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

The Constitution is not a body of opinion. :picard:


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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