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InvisibleStargate
Addicted To Growing


Registered: 05/26/14
Posts: 1,124
30 Day Half-life of Cannabinoids's effects on driving
    #21931197 - 07/11/15 10:29 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

A little over two months ago, I got a volunteer study group of a whopping 10 subjects for a study. They are gifted specific amounts of weed that they are required to smoke over set periods of time. We are in Colorado.

First, they all claimed to be infrequent users. The point of the experiment is seeing if large amounts of cannabinoids building up in your system over a period of 1-60 days, would impair the driving abilities of the users. This isn't a test of when the subject is high, its for when they are sober.

The tests are based on a few factors.

1. The speed the subject is driving relative to the speed limit.
2. The distance the subject drives behind the driver in front of them.
3. How much the subject weaves in a lane.
4. If/how often the subject weaves out of their lane.
5. If the subject has gotten proper sleep the previous night.
6. Response time to incidents such as the driver in front of them breaking.

The study began on May 3rd. Each subject went through a control recording of 7 days, in an attempt to get a base-line for the individual subjects. The control recording began on Mar 3rd and ended on May 9th.

Once the control was over, each subject was gifted pre-weighed out joints of 0.15 grams, and were allowed to smoke it as is or break it into a bowl for smoking. In addition, they were gifted 1 60mg THC edible per week each for use on the weekend.

The first few weeks seemed fine, with negligible results relative to the baseline. When coming into the 4th week of testing, the subjects seemed to show some effects. The response times began being a bit lagged, they were breaking a bit harder due to the later response times, and they were missing roads more. Basically, it seems so far that the build up of cannabinoids in the system could potentially be having an effect on the subjects driving abilities. The subjects are claiming now, that they feel foggy.

Now, I want your opinions, shroomery members. If you are a heavy, regular toker, what is your opinion on this? Do you think that this project is bullshit? Of course, we know that the subject base is very small.


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,870
Loc: Foreign Lands
Re: 30 Day Half-life of Cannabinoids's effects on driving [Re: Stargate]
    #21931230 - 07/11/15 10:40 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

probably bullshit.  maybe not?  i dunno, i've always smoked weed since before i could drive :shrug:


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Invisible404
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Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 14,539
Re: 30 Day Half-life of Cannabinoids's effects on driving [Re: Stargate]
    #21931235 - 07/11/15 10:42 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Ten subjects is not a healthy population sample size i don't think. Interesting study though

Edit: now i read where you acknowledge that fact.



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Invisible404
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Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 14,539
Re: 30 Day Half-life of Cannabinoids's effects on driving [Re: 404]
    #21931251 - 07/11/15 10:47 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I think there should be more factors. Like the amount of lifetime use, not just frequency. You should perhaps on some level quantify how much they consume regularly, or at least are used to because if you're giving them more than they usually do you will be affecting the outcome of the data in a sense


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: 30 Day Half-life of Cannabinoids's effects on driving [Re: Stargate]
    #21931256 - 07/11/15 10:49 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Stargate said:
The first few weeks seemed fine, with negligible results relative to the baseline. When coming into the 4th week of testing, the subjects seemed to show some effects. The response times began being a bit lagged, they were breaking a bit harder due to the later response times, and they were missing roads more. Basically, it seems so far that the build up of cannabinoids in the system could potentially be having an effect on the subjects driving abilities. The subjects are claiming now, that they feel foggy.






how were the driving habits monitored?

I wouldnt have placed any eggs in the basket on buildup but with impairment after
initially smoking I could certainly see, of course most impaired people dont know
they're impaired, they think they drive better when they're stoned


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InvisibleStargate
Addicted To Growing


Registered: 05/26/14
Posts: 1,124
Re: 30 Day Half-life of Cannabinoids's effects on driving [Re: 404]
    #21931818 - 07/12/15 01:37 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I run a Research & Development lab. Personally, I specialize in programming for sensors. I've set up sensors that detect the distance of the cars in front of them, the speed they are going, and the left/right lines in the road relative to the position of the sensor which is centered in the car looking out the windshield.

The factor that I can't be sure of, is if the subjects are being truthful on the amount of sleep they are getting on the previous nights.

Quote:

404 said:
Ten subjects is not a healthy population sample size i don't think. Interesting study though

Edit: now i read where you acknowledge that fact.





Once this initial micro-study is done, if I gets interesting results, we plan to search for more subjects to add onto the results. I would like a group of at LEAST 10,000 in the end, but that costs the company a lot of money. As it is, we are not making a dime off the study. Its just being done out off curiosity, and to hopefully benefit the understanding of this medicine in the world. If we receive a grant (we're working on it), than we will be able to get the equipment and test subjects we need.


You guys may hate me for this, but if the results show that a certain level of cannabinoids in a system actually do significantly impair the driving capability of an individual to the point where they truly are a danger to others, we will present the information to the state of CO as a realistic benchmark of impairment. We would like to weed out the bullshit of current governmental views, being that even trace amounts of cannabinoids in your system can being used against you.

My personal hope, is that this study could open the gateway for cannabis users to be more easily hired for jobs, as well as not fired for taking a toke every now and then. I would have to agree, personally, that a HEAVY user of cannabis could end up impairing their work ability, but if you are a responsible user, I believe that your employer should understand that light/moderate use isn't a problem at all.

Quote:

404 said:
I think there should be more factors. Like the amount of lifetime use, not just frequency. You should perhaps on some level quantify how much they consume regularly, or at least are used to because if you're giving them more than they usually do you will be affecting the outcome of the data in a sense




Thank you, I will write up a proposition. Your suggestion is reasonable.


--------------------
From before I started growing gourmet mushrooms:


Edited by Stargate (07/12/15 01:40 AM)


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Offlineteamkiller
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Registered: 06/06/11
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Re: 30 Day Half-life of Cannabinoids's effects on driving [Re: Stargate]
    #21931845 - 07/12/15 01:48 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)



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Invisiblenooneman
Male

Registered: 04/24/09
Posts: 14,561
Loc: Utah
Re: 30 Day Half-life of Cannabinoids's effects on driving [Re: Stargate]
    #21931850 - 07/12/15 01:50 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

You had 10 subjects. It's not statistically significant by a long shot. What I mean by that is, it's meaningless because you don't have enough people to show anything.

Plus, the design of your "study" has flaws.


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Invisibleshadyy
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Posts: 21,330
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Re: 30 Day Half-life of Cannabinoids's effects on driving [Re: Stargate] * 1
    #21931888 - 07/12/15 02:09 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I wouldn't be surprised. If I'm smoking frequently, I stay in a fog until I take a nice break.

That is why weed is gay.


--------------------

ga ga ga eets eets how you gone be mad on vacation?
MONICA COULDN'T TELL TIME UNTIL SHE WAS 13


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Invisiblenooneman
Male

Registered: 04/24/09
Posts: 14,561
Loc: Utah
Re: 30 Day Half-life of Cannabinoids's effects on driving [Re: shadyy] * 1
    #21931894 - 07/12/15 02:10 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

i hate liz said:
That is why weed is gay.



You're thinking of mushrooms. Mushrooms make you gay, you know.


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InvisibleShroomopotamus
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Registered: 09/27/09
Posts: 18,757
Loc: Funkotron
Re: 30 Day Half-life of Cannabinoids's effects on driving [Re: nooneman]
    #21931921 - 07/12/15 02:27 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

there's a major difference between people with and without a tolerance

i can't get off the couch with no tolerance, that doesn't mean i can't walk


--------------------
*
Live by the mushroom, die by the mushroom
:mushroom2::rainbowdrink:
This is a trap! A trap! You are all busted! Busted! You fools!
:twirlyface:

If a time comes where I fail to appear I've been abducted and I will miss you all
Please smile and pet puppies as often as possible
Be happy
Be nice
(<3);}


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
Universally Loathed and Reviled
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Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,870
Loc: Foreign Lands
Re: 30 Day Half-life of Cannabinoids's effects on driving [Re: Shroomopotamus]
    #21931934 - 07/12/15 02:33 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)



--------------------


Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here


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InvisibleStargate
Addicted To Growing


Registered: 05/26/14
Posts: 1,124
Re: 30 Day Half-life of Cannabinoids's effects on driving [Re: nooneman]
    #21933487 - 07/12/15 01:09 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

nooneman said:
You had 10 subjects. It's not statistically significant by a long shot. What I mean by that is, it's meaningless because you don't have enough people to show anything.

Plus, the design of your "study" has flaws.



I completely agree that a study group of only 10 subjects is borderline worthless, but that is just for a micro-study test, in order to determine if it may be worth perusing at all.

Now, you mentioned that the study has flaws. The reason I posted this here in the first place, was to invite others to critique this for flaws. If you feel up to it, I invite you to point out these flaws so that the study may be adjusted. I invite everyone here to do the same.


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From before I started growing gourmet mushrooms:


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OfflineSunnyD
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Registered: 04/29/13
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Re: 30 Day Half-life of Cannabinoids's effects on driving [Re: Stargate]
    #21933539 - 07/12/15 01:26 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I honestly admire what your doing


Try to keep it as rational and pure as you can for the sake of knowledge! :smile:


--------------------
:sunny::inlove::peyotespectrum::peyotespectrum::inlove::sunny:
And to everyone who thinks life is just a game,
Do you like the part you are playing?
This is the time in life I am living!
And I face each day with a smile :smile:
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Invisible4HO-DMT
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Re: 30 Day Half-life of Cannabinoids's effects on driving [Re: Stargate] * 1
    #21933572 - 07/12/15 01:37 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I think you should get a minimum of 50 subjects, 100 would be better.  Also, if people are starting with no tolerance, I think this will affect the outcome. For your next study, you should get a control group of people that don't use cannabis at all. Then I would compare their driving habits to a group of people that regularly use, but don't drive under the influence. Then compare the results from each group. I think this would give more meaningful results. Just like people who train themselves to drive after drinking, I think that people who regularly use cannabis have learned to drive well under the influence. Good luck, it's a fascinating study. Please update us with your results when you get them.


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OfflineCHeifM4sterDiezL
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Registered: 07/28/10
Posts: 22,546
Loc: United States Flag
Last seen: 11 minutes, 10 seconds
Re: 30 Day Half-life of Cannabinoids's effects on driving [Re: 4HO-DMT]
    #21933637 - 07/12/15 01:55 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

FUcking the air force did this in the 60's or summin but with like fighter pilots n shit. their study seemed alot better than ur thing.


Edited by CHeifM4sterDiezL (07/12/15 01:59 PM)


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InvisibleMr.GuessWork
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Registered: 03/30/13
Posts: 4,563
Re: 30 Day Half-life of Cannabinoids's effects on driving [Re: Stargate]
    #21933645 - 07/12/15 01:57 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Stargate said:
A little over two months ago, I got a volunteer study group of a whopping 10 subjects for a study. They are gifted specific amounts of weed that they are required to smoke over set periods of time. We are in Colorado.

First, they all claimed to be infrequent users. The point of the experiment is seeing if large amounts of cannabinoids building up in your system over a period of 1-60 days, would impair the driving abilities of the users. This isn't a test of when the subject is high, its for when they are sober.

The tests are based on a few factors.

1. The speed the subject is driving relative to the speed limit.
2. The distance the subject drives behind the driver in front of them.
3. How much the subject weaves in a lane.
4. If/how often the subject weaves out of their lane.
5. If the subject has gotten proper sleep the previous night.
6. Response time to incidents such as the driver in front of them breaking.

The study began on May 3rd. Each subject went through a control recording of 7 days, in an attempt to get a base-line for the individual subjects. The control recording began on Mar 3rd and ended on May 9th.

Once the control was over, each subject was gifted pre-weighed out joints of 0.15 grams, and were allowed to smoke it as is or break it into a bowl for smoking. In addition, they were gifted 1 60mg THC edible per week each for use on the weekend.

The first few weeks seemed fine, with negligible results relative to the baseline. When coming into the 4th week of testing, the subjects seemed to show some effects. The response times began being a bit lagged, they were breaking a bit harder due to the later response times, and they were missing roads more. Basically, it seems so far that the build up of cannabinoids in the system could potentially be having an effect on the subjects driving abilities. The subjects are claiming now, that they feel foggy.

Now, I want your opinions, shroomery members. If you are a heavy, regular toker, what is your opinion on this? Do you think that this project is bullshit? Of course, we know that the subject base is very small.




It's got some pretty serious flaws IMO.

The most obvious flaw is that you need to address the placebo effect somehow, which is probably damn near impossible at psychoactive doses. You have to rule out the idea that their not driving worse because they think they're feeling cloudy.

You also need the control to have the same duration and frequency of testing. People who are repeatedly tested can have their performance affected by it. I don't think a base line alone is good enough.


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Invisiblebadchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,372
Re: 30 Day Half-life of Cannabinoids's effects on driving [Re: Stargate]
    #21933707 - 07/12/15 02:20 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Having attended numerous seminars on setting regulations for driving, the main problem you'll face is convincing someone that any of the six outcome measures are in any way related to "real world" driving impairment.

Whether or not 10 subjects is an adequate sample size depends on the magnitude of the effect, and the statistical analyses you're performing.

I'd also be surprised at the IRB that approved this study, and you'll have difficulty publishing without a schedule 1 license.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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