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Invisibleinsanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
Re: V-Tek invitro Casing [Re: Sockadin]
    #21938415 - 07/13/15 05:52 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Tetramine said:
Again Wrong.

Vermiculite can be consumed and absorbed by Mycelium for it's nutritious properties. Mycelium may not germinate on it, but healthy mycelium will colonize and propagate on it, just like mold will.

http://webmineral.com/data/Vermiculite.shtml#.VaRMaI3bIbw

Incase you were wondering what it was made out of.




Vermiculite simply holds alot of water which is why it is used as a casing layer in bulk grows and as a substrate in the pf tek. Try growing mycelium pf style and omit the rice flour and let us all know how that turns out for you.


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OfflineRictus
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Registered: 06/08/15
Posts: 33
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
Re: V-Tek invitro Casing [Re: Sockadin]
    #21938419 - 07/13/15 05:52 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Tetramine said:
Again Wrong.

Vermiculite can be consumed and absorbed by Mycelium for it's nutritious properties. Mycelium may not germinate on it, but healthy mycelium will colonize and propagate on it, just like mold will.

http://webmineral.com/data/Vermiculite.shtml#.VaRMaI3bIbw

Incase you were wondering what it was made out of.



Quote:

Tetramine said:
Again Wrong.

Vermiculite can be consumed and absorbed by Mycelium for it's nutritious properties. Mycelium may not germinate on it, but healthy mycelium will colonize and propagate on it, just like mold will.

http://webmineral.com/data/Vermiculite.shtml#.VaRMaI3bIbw

Incase you were wondering what it was made out of.





Thanks for the info Tetramine. I completely agree, well said.

In vitro means in glass or behind glass. It would be referring to mushrooms grown inside of an unopened jar. It wouldn't be possible to do in vitro with the V-tek or at least not worth while.

He already said that spores are unlikely to germinate, enough said.


Edited by Rictus (07/13/15 05:53 PM)


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InvisibleViolet
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Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
Re: V-Tek invitro Casing [Re: Rictus]
    #21938458 - 07/13/15 06:01 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

The tek actually has an invitro "version" for the taller quart containers. I love it, it's become one of my favorite nifty little methods.  Check the page of links in my signature.

Vermiculite may have some minerals that already-established mycelium may use, but this doesn't make it nutritious.


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts


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OfflineSockadin
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Re: V-Tek invitro Casing [Re: Violet]
    #21938763 - 07/13/15 07:07 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

While I love the V-tek personally, (your never gonna get rid of that name now) all I am pointing out is that it has nutrients and show be properly processed. Either through pasteurization of sterilization. You can't PC BRF and then mix it with Vermiculite and water and not have contamination.

But to clarify the topic most of the time when using Verm and or Coir as a bulk sub, when you get contamination it is more than likely going to be from your spawn.


Edited by Sockadin (07/13/15 07:08 PM)


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Invisibleinsanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
Re: V-Tek invitro Casing [Re: Sockadin]
    #21939001 - 07/13/15 08:06 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Tetramine said:
While I love the V-tek personally, (your never gonna get rid of that name now) all I am pointing out is that it has nutrients and show be properly processed. Either through pasteurization of sterilization. You can't PC BRF and then mix it with Vermiculite and water and not have contamination.

But to clarify the topic most of the time when using Verm and or Coir as a bulk sub, when you get contamination it is more than likely going to be from your spawn.




You completely missed the point of the statement that you are referring to. Let me put it in a way that maybe you can understand. Just because you are able to chew, swallow and finish digesting paper, doesn't make it nutritious. You don't think mycelium can digest a substrate unless it's food to them? I've seen mycelium digest it's way right through an unlined tin tray on many occasions. I doubt it recieved much nutrition from it.


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Registered: 09/15/12
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Re: V-Tek invitro Casing [Re: insanemike]
    #21939054 - 07/13/15 08:19 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Its already been proven many times that most agaricales (including cubes) can break down lignin. There is nothing to suggest they derive anything from it.


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Invisibleinsanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
Re: V-Tek invitro Casing [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #21939101 - 07/13/15 08:27 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Pasty, thank you, pasty. It seems these v-teker's only listen to the almighty words of their creator. It's kind of funny and kind of sad at the same time. I like Violet's tek but geeze, it's not the only proven way to grow and she just like anyone else, doesn't have all the answers. Sometimes you will have to take advice from other veteran experienced growers as well.


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: V-Tek invitro Casing [Re: insanemike]
    #21939132 - 07/13/15 08:33 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I'm just trying to share what I know. . . I know RR went on about the nutes in verm but personally I doubt his word on that one.


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Offlinespacechildo
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Registered: 01/24/13
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Re: V-Tek invitro Casing [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #21939198 - 07/13/15 08:45 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Isn't it a known fact that verm at least has trace elements?

I'm not saying this implies one or another thing, not quite sure if you guys are debating whether spores will germ on it or myc of any kind will grow...

but if a brf cake weighs less than the verm it was made of alone after its done flushing where did this weight go?
isnt everything energy and energy cant disappear?


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: V-Tek invitro Casing [Re: spacechildo]
    #21939238 - 07/13/15 08:56 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Yes the verm does have some trace minerals, but its not really nutritious in the sense that fungi can live off of it. It can fruit off of straight grain or manure but it can't fruit off of verm.

Also as a culture fruits it squeezes the substrate which is going to compress it, does not mean its actually consuming as much as it looks like it is.

Not looking to make more of this that has been already but I will say that mike is correct in that cubes can colonize things that are not necessarily food and verm is only going to provide very trace benefit from a nutrition standpoint. Its a water reservoir.


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: V-Tek invitro Casing [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #21939296 - 07/13/15 09:06 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

yeah considering the 5+qts of grain we use pr mono the verm isnt there for its nutritional value.

I was actually thinking more of the weight of the cake, I know myc can colonize or at least crawl over things like plastic
and break down stuff it wont eat like tin trays but
if the weight of the verm is gone what happened to it?


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: V-Tek invitro Casing [Re: spacechildo]
    #21939355 - 07/13/15 09:19 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I'm not sure the weight of the verm is gone to be honest. I am sure that some of it does get "consumed". But other than RR saying it weighs less, I have seen nothing that proves it in a substantial way. Might be a good experiment for someone to conduct.


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OfflineXiaoYi
Zhu Ren


Registered: 05/17/15
Posts: 19
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
Re: V-Tek invitro Casing [Re: insanemike]
    #21939561 - 07/13/15 09:58 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

" It seems these v-teker's only listen to the almighty words of their creator."

Mike I'm not sure who, or what statement specifically you're referring to as I've been in agreement with you about the lack of a need for sterilizing vermiculite (for use as a casing) based on what I've read. An you gave a great example exemplifying vermiculite's lack of nutrition by inviting someone to attempt growing pf style cake omitting the flour and relying on verm for nutrition.

People just enjoy nitpicking. Of course there is an exceptionally small, negligible amount of nutrition in verm that poses an extremely small, highly unlikely, risk of providing contams with the nutrition they need to proliferate. I would liken it to a person to sucking on a dirty nickle--your body would garner some incredibly small amount of nutrition from the filth coating the nickle, but would it keep you from starving to death?

I'm not sure why this is being discussed anyway. Rictus*, like myself, is new here and not really in a position to be doling out advice.


Edited by XiaoYi (07/13/15 10:05 PM)


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OfflineSockadin
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Re: V-Tek invitro Casing [Re: XiaoYi]
    #21953109 - 07/16/15 06:08 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Verm is 50% aluminum so yeah mycelium can break it down just like it does aluminum trays. All I was originally advocating is that not past/sterilizing your verm in a casing can give an opportunity for other contaminates to grow on the substance if it is being used with a weak mycelium network.

@bryancranston: V and I have argued for years. I don't idolize her or her teks. I know they can work through trial. I don't usually use her teks because they are not right for me.

@Pasty: Im not saying that a PF cake with out BRF will actually give a great environment to develop healthy mycelium, but it has nutrients. If it didn't why wouldn't we use saw dust and BRF in cakes?


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: V-Tek invitro Casing [Re: Sockadin]
    #21953171 - 07/16/15 06:22 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Tetramine said:
Im not saying that a PF cake with out BRF will actually give a great environment to develop healthy mycelium, but it has nutrients. If it didn't why wouldn't we use saw dust and BRF in cakes?




I don't really equate trace minerals with nutrients. The reason we don't use it in brf cakes is that wood is so attractive to trich that its not worth the risk to have it as a substrate for a non wood loving species that will not colonize it as aggressively as most woodlovers will. Certainly wood has more benefit for cubensis than verm would as a primary substrate. You could probably get a just wood substrate to colonize even tho it would not fruit well at all, but I doubt you could get a straight verm substrate to colonize with cubes. I have used verm untreated straight out of the bag many times as a casing. Its probably better to treat it simply to keep the sporeload on the sub lower but, having untreated verm contam is a non issue.


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Invisibleinsanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
Re: V-Tek invitro Casing [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #21953536 - 07/16/15 07:55 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I have on numerous occasions used verm as a casing straight out of the bag and not once have I seen a contam grow on it. Infact I have had substrates that were into there 3rd flush, contaminate with trich. They were cased with verm and still the verm never contaminated, the trich only took over where the mycelium network became weak.

if anyone considers trace minerals to be sufficient nutrition,  go ahead and see how long you can live off of nothing but water and a daily multivitamin.


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InvisibleViolet
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Re: V-Tek invitro Casing [Re: insanemike]
    #21953654 - 07/16/15 08:29 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Pasty, sounds right to me. That's always been the way I've seen it.
Yet I, of all people (go figure?) got the flak from RR for calling verm non-nutritious.  He may have been right, but IMO it was an inapplicable, archaic form of rightness, these days best used as a rhetorical weapon, which I believe it was.

Tetramine, were you by another name before or something? Because I don't remember you at all, much less "fighting" with you.


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts


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OfflineRictus
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Registered: 06/08/15
Posts: 33
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
Re: V-Tek invitro Casing [Re: Violet]
    #21972320 - 07/20/15 06:55 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks for being congenial in your ways violet, it is nice having you around. Thanks for the links to the in vitro style.


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OfflineXiaoYi
Zhu Ren


Registered: 05/17/15
Posts: 19
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
Re: V-Tek invitro Casing [Re: Rictus]
    #21992061 - 07/24/15 07:39 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

*UPDATE*

Hello guys, I just wanted to update in case anyone was interested in how this worked out.

Tall container cased with Verm/Gypsum fruited invitro style* first flush yielded ~50 grams




50/50+ cased containers fruited in SGFC developing pins*




and the small Mini-Round* 50/50+ casing



And here's my first pf cakes on their second flush:

Left side is Golden Teacher and the right side with 3 mushrooms is Amazonian.


Amazonian closeup


Thanks guys, I'd love to hear any suggestions.


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InvisibleViolet
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Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
Re: V-Tek invitro Casing [Re: XiaoYi]
    #21995098 - 07/25/15 12:40 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

50 grams first flush is pretty good! Especially if multi-spore.

Good job Xiao.  Feel encouraged to post your results in the related tek threads, I'd appreciate it!


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts


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