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OfflineDeviate
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Timothy Leary and Ram Daas debate * 1
    #21929293 - 07/11/15 03:25 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

This is one of the greatest things I've ever watched. In my opinion, Ram Daas destroys Timothy Leary.



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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Timothy Leary and Ram Daas debate [Re: Deviate]
    #21929953 - 07/11/15 05:56 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

:thumbup::thumbup:

Thanks for sharing, Deviate.  I think ol' Tim held his own.  It was all in good fun.  :smile:


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Timothy Leary and Ram Daas debate [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #21930721 - 07/11/15 08:29 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Oh yeah, it was definitely all in good fun. It is clear they love each other. But I mean, what Ram Daas said spoke to me at so much of a deeper level than what Leary said. I love them both a lot though, I think Leary was brilliant in a different way.


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InvisibleChronic7
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Re: Timothy Leary and Ram Daas debate [Re: Deviate]
    #21932263 - 07/12/15 06:31 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I was quite surprised by this the first time i saw it, how Leary stands up and trys to publically mock Ram Dass for using words like 'Spirituality', 'God' and 'Christ', coming from a man that spread LSD right across America and that started the 'Leaugue for Spiritual Discovery' and spoke a lot about Spirituality in his younger years, he also took LSD right until the end... i guess it just goes to show even with LSD you can still grow up to be somewhat closed minded, Ram Dass handled it very well tho



--------------------


Edited by Chronic7 (01/09/19 03:44 AM)


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OfflineAjahn Don
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Re: Timothy Leary and Ram Daas debate [Re: Chronic7]
    #21932739 - 07/12/15 10:14 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

That was interesting, at least the minute sixteen I watched. As a Buddhist monk, I know Ram Das quite well, by reputation. He's an enlightened being, obviously, and he put it exactly right. It is stillness that leads to well-being. Mindfulness is the key. It takes time, returning your mind to the breath over and over. It is worth the effort.

Donnie


--------------------
"He's not altogether dense, but he's not altogether there."


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Timothy Leary and Ram Daas debate [Re: Chronic7] * 1
    #21934732 - 07/12/15 07:11 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

The Chronic said:
I was quite surprised by this the first time i saw it, how Leary stands up and trys to publically mock Ram Dass for using words like 'Spirituality', 'God' and 'Christ', coming from a man that spread LSD right across America and that started the 'Leaugue for Spiritual Discovery' and spoke a lot about Spirituality in his younger years, he also took LSD right until the end... i guess it just goes to show even with LSD you can still grow up to be somewhat closed minded, Ram Dass handled it very well tho

I'm over the psychedelic pioneers of the past to be honest, Leary, Dass, McKenna etc... they paved the way but now we need some fresh blood, i agree with Grof tho - Ram Dass ftw, he's the only one that went deep into Sadhana, there's more wisdom in a few pages of Be Here Now than any of McKennas hours of lectures or Learys masses of books put together in my opinion

I love Leary & the role he played so well but i imagine him meeting someone like Neem Karoli Baba and seeing nothing but an Inidan man wrapped in a blanket whereas Ram Dass sensed an opportunity to truly wake up




I was surprised by Leary too because he uses the word God in his books and he once spoke about Christ as being a turned on figure.

It seems like Leary really had a big problem with authority and humility. He couldn't stand the idea of following a guru or kneeling down before another man or before God. He saw it as weakness, giving away your power. I on the other hand, feel like kneeling down is my strength. WHen you truly give all your power away to God, then it has no where else to go but to come back to you. Seems like Leary wanted to do everything himself.


Edited by Deviate (07/12/15 07:12 PM)


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
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Re: Timothy Leary and Ram Daas debate [Re: Deviate]
    #21936437 - 07/13/15 08:52 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

It's great to see Ram Dass articulate himself so well, but it seems like America took him back under its grip, pudgy around the waist, stiff in his walk.  Seems like he gave up on his diet and his yoga. :shrug:


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


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OfflineTheGreenArrow
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Re: Timothy Leary and Ram Daas debate [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #21936830 - 07/13/15 11:10 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

He had more important shit on his mind.


--------------------
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an
invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, conn a ship, write a
sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the
dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve an
equation, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a
computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.
Specialization is for insects.- Robert A. Heinlein
Saint RedBow of the Shroomey Loomey-Patron Saint of Sandbaggin Sumbitchs


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OfflineAjahn Don
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Re: Timothy Leary and Ram Daas debate [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #21937003 - 07/13/15 11:56 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

He got older. I know how that feels, and someday you might hope to get there, too. It ain't easy after 50.


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
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Re: Timothy Leary and Ram Daas debate [Re: Ajahn Don]
    #21937387 - 07/13/15 01:42 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Not saying it is, but dude is supposed to be on his sadhana, spiritual work never stops....


this guy looks pretty old




--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


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Invisiblecez
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Re: Timothy Leary and Ram Daas debate [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #21938241 - 07/13/15 05:06 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Is indulging in a strict diet to serve the idea of sadhana somehow more spiritual than indulging in other desires?


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Timothy Leary and Ram Daas debate [Re: cez]
    #21938818 - 07/13/15 07:19 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

cez said:
Is indulging in a strict diet to serve the idea of sadhana somehow more spiritual than indulging in other desires?




I feel like questions like this, while they have their place, are a bit too, eh i dunno what word to use, but almost like a kid who keeps asking why.

Indulging in a strict and healthy diet is good for you. It is good for the body and it is good for the mind, teaches self-control. Why not just leave at that?

Of course you can turn it into something negative if you over think it, or become too pre-occupied with it but everything is like that. You can turn any sort of spiritual practice into something negative if you do it in unblanaced way. I have learned that over the years.


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Invisiblecez
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Re: Timothy Leary and Ram Daas debate [Re: Deviate]
    #21938869 - 07/13/15 07:34 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
Quote:

cez said:
Is indulging in a strict diet to serve the idea of sadhana somehow more spiritual than indulging in other desires?




I feel like questions like this, while they have their place, are a bit too, eh i dunno what word to use, but almost like a kid who keeps asking why. .




I'd rather be the child that keeps asking why rather than the adult that thinks he has all the answers.

I'm suggesting just because he put on some weight that does not mean he isn't on his sadhana.  The guy lived the aesthetic life for much of his time here.  Clinging to it in this stage might be detrimental to his joy. :shrug:


Edited by CosmicJoke (07/14/15 02:55 PM)


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
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Re: Timothy Leary and Ram Daas debate [Re: cez]
    #21942371 - 07/14/15 02:55 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

cez said:
Quote:

Deviate said:
Quote:

cez said:
Is indulging in a strict diet to serve the idea of sadhana somehow more spiritual than indulging in other desires?




I feel like questions like this, while they have their place, are a bit too, eh i dunno what word to use, but almost like a kid who keeps asking why. .




I'd rather be the child that keeps asking why rather than the adult that thinks he has all the answers.

I'm suggesting just because he put on some weight that does not mean he isn't on his sadhana.  The guy lived the aesthetic life for much of his time here.  Clinging to it in this stage might be detrimental to his joy. :shrug:






I dunno, my high school Spanish teacher was a yoga instructor in her 60s, she was amazing health and flexibility......  health food nut, ate really well, delicious vegetarian meals..... If you read Ram Dass's Book _Still Here_ he mentioned having a lot of abnormal feelings and symptoms and brushing them off long before his stroke. :shrug:  While I can't say for sure that putting off his dietary/yogic practices led to his stroke, ignoring Western medicine isn't going to help....    At any rate, meeting him post stroke I've never been more blissed out than when he rubbed my palm as I babbled to him and he gave me a great big hug, so I'd say he's doing something right with his spiritual work.

I think there's a middle path for it all, yoga, diet, america, fun


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


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OfflineTheGreenArrow
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Re: Timothy Leary and Ram Daas debate [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #21942549 - 07/14/15 03:41 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

That's a great outlook on it and I ended up watching that video you posted on that.  :manofapproval: 
I really need to read Be Here Now.


--------------------
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an
invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, conn a ship, write a
sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the
dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve an
equation, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a
computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.
Specialization is for insects.- Robert A. Heinlein
Saint RedBow of the Shroomey Loomey-Patron Saint of Sandbaggin Sumbitchs


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Timothy Leary and Ram Daas debate [Re: cez]
    #21943067 - 07/14/15 05:34 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

cez said:
Quote:

Deviate said:
Quote:

cez said:
Is indulging in a strict diet to serve the idea of sadhana somehow more spiritual than indulging in other desires?




I feel like questions like this, while they have their place, are a bit too, eh i dunno what word to use, but almost like a kid who keeps asking why. .




I'd rather be the child that keeps asking why rather than the adult that thinks he has all the answers.

I'm suggesting just because he put on some weight that does not mean he isn't on his sadhana.  The guy lived the aesthetic life for much of his time here.  Clinging to it in this stage might be detrimental to his joy. :shrug:





No I totally agree agree with you, which I tried to say yesterday but it wouldn't let me post.  I misunderstood your first post, my bad.


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OfflineAjahn Don
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Re: Timothy Leary and Ram Daas debate [Re: Deviate]
    #21943680 - 07/14/15 07:52 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

"The guy lived the aesthetic life for much of his time here.  Clinging to it in this stage might be detrimental to his joy."

The Buddha learned that the ascetic life of denial did not end his suffering. Epicurus said that pleasure is our only form of heaven. The Buddha found the middle way was the only way, to see both pleasure and denial can both lead to craving. I doubt Ram Dass has any problem with seeing both. It's just too hard to describe. The pleasure comes from being okay with either, in the moment. See? Too hard to describe. Access through the cushion.

:smile:


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
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Re: Timothy Leary and Ram Daas debate [Re: Deviate]
    #21944409 - 07/14/15 10:48 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
Quote:

cez said:
Quote:

Deviate said:
Quote:

cez said:
Is indulging in a strict diet to serve the idea of sadhana somehow more spiritual than indulging in other desires?




I feel like questions like this, while they have their place, are a bit too, eh i dunno what word to use, but almost like a kid who keeps asking why. .




I'd rather be the child that keeps asking why rather than the adult that thinks he has all the answers.

I'm suggesting just because he put on some weight that does not mean he isn't on his sadhana.  The guy lived the aesthetic life for much of his time here.  Clinging to it in this stage might be detrimental to his joy. :shrug:





No I totally agree agree with you, which I tried to say yesterday but it wouldn't let me post.  I misunderstood your first post, my bad.




Well, Ram Dass described it w/ that metaphor 1st there is a mountain, then there is no mountain, then there is...

And he used it to describe his transition from being a neurotic psychologist, to dropping out and doing the yoga thing, and then coming back, taking back his American identity with some liberation to it...

I don't know, I think I've witnessed a better middle path myself, but I've met him and he blitzed me with love and nonjudgmental seeing through me so

What, his book was called Fierce Grace? That his stroke was his next phase is his spiritual work?  That it was his next teacher.

I'm more of a believer in Western medicine and routine checkups and doing your damnedest not to stroke out, and I think he ignored a lot of health issues leading up to his stroke.  Nobody is perfect, I think he made mistakes, and he made the best of them to continue his spiritual work.  A lot was learning to be taken care of rather than being independent, to be bathed, to be a passenger in a car when he was into driving luxury sports cars etc.


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


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InvisibleChronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
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Re: Timothy Leary and Ram Daas debate [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #21945919 - 07/15/15 05:38 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks for sharing CosmicJoke, this the second time recently i've read someone being touched by Ram Dass' presence :heart:


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Timothy Leary and Ram Daas debate [Re: Chronic7]
    #21948375 - 07/15/15 05:03 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

My mom met Ram Daas. One of the few things she has ever done that I am jealous of.


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