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Galaxytripper
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Registered: 09/08/13
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Shotgun Fruiting Chamber questions
#21929221 - 07/11/15 03:03 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Hi, Guys and gals, I have some questions about my proposed SGFC.
Current Grow I have my third ever B+ BRF cake grow under way. Still learning. The main issue is consistency, controlling the elements: temperature, humidity and light. Heat and humidity seem to me to be the hardest. We have a heat wave here in the pacific north west right now, which has actually helped. Just 19 days of incubation and 2 out of 10 jars have already completely colonized, one contam. Still happy. Followed everything to the hygienic letter this time. I don’t want to ***k up the final fruiting stage.
Last year’s SGFC setup
Last year I used an SGFC, but the humidity only ever got up to 60% (took shroomery advice and got an better hygrometer from a cigar shop). Not a drop of condensation on the tub walls. The Pacific NorthWest has a relatively dry climate, or put this way, nothing like Florida. Tried taping up some shotgun holes. That had little effect. I tried to follow the instructions unquestioningly. Yet I had nagging doubts about the method because I just didn’t and still don’t understand it. I mean, if you have innumerable holes in the terrarium, you get air flow, for sure, but how the ***k can the humidity level remain high? It just escapes out the holes, right? Or what is it I’m not getting here? Remember when you were in school in the winter and it was stuffy, and you could see all the condensation on the windows. Teach got a pupil to open the windows and the condensation disappeared, because the water vapor went out the window. Isn’t that exactly the same deal? So how is this supposed to work? Can someone explain the theory, so I can see it makes the minimum sense?
Back to Tub-in-tub
For fruiting, I decided to revert to the same tub-in-tub method I had used to incubate, (although the tubs were very small for that, maybe too small) -adding 2 fans, one blowing air in, the other blowing air out for FAE. (See tub-in-tub setup pics). That got the humidity up to 99% but water vapor pulled in by the fan collected and dripped onto the cakes. So I got some common row cover used to protect plants in the winter, and lined the inside of the inner lid with it. That absorbed the drips, proving effective. So, that was my setup.
However, that only gave me a partial result. The cakes that survived incubation had to survive my impatient, dirty paws inspecting them every day. That’s why I’m taking a sterile environment seriously at last, and adopting a hands-off approach this time. Leave well enough the ***k alone.
So, my questions are:
1) How can I keep the humidity up with the holes in the SGFC and what’s the theory behind it? I mean are the holes meant to replace the need for fanning? It’s Summer here, and I don’t live in a very humid climate.
2(a) I want an as-automated-as-possible a setup, and don’t want to worry about having to fan the cakes 5x a day. If you guys can convince me on question 1), I was thinking of migrating the two fans over to the original big SGFC. Would that be a good idea?
2(b) If I do, the fans would be on all the time. Would that be a problem, with respect to maintaining humidity, or for any other reason? Or more basically, would the fans be effective at replacing manual fanning. Any recommendations, comments or pointers?
3. Roger Rabbit says the holes in the bottom are especially important for maintaining proper humidity. True as that may be, To my lights, I still find that statement perplexing. Seems counter-intuitive.The holes on the bottom are under all the perlite. Apart from the fact that the water, following gravity, is going to gradually drain out the bottom (reducing the very substance of which the humidity is made) what has the humidity at the bottom of the tub got to do with that above the perlite? We’re working on top, not at the bottom, yeah? But what do I know?
Thanks, guys.
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Rebelutionsssss
Mdmazing



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Re: Shotgun Fruiting Chamber questions [Re: Galaxytripper]
#21929243 - 07/11/15 03:11 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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The holes on the bottom are to allow air to flow through the perlite and pick up moisture thus raising the humidity. And I would leave the fans out, they tend to dry out the chamber too much IMO. Just fan like 3 times a day and you'll be good.
-------------------- : To define is to confine.
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spacechildo
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Registered: 01/24/13
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no need to fan at all, but you want to mist it when it looks dry. sgfc are pretty close to automated, they do fine on their own and even better if misted 1-2 times a day.
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mycomaniac1402
Myco Maniac :-)



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Re: Shotgun Fruiting Chamber questions [Re: spacechildo]
#21929472 - 07/11/15 04:04 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Ive found that its different in every person's situation. I for one never liked the Shotgun chamber style thats suggested. I created my own to suit my needs. I use a whole different set up with a Sterlite tub, six holes in front and 4 in back and I like my humidity to be high while fruiting. Every one is different but my set up works great and always has for me.
I guess my advise would be dont limit yourself to a single tek if it is shown to not give you results in your exp. Try something different and find what works. The mycellium will show you what is optimal in your environment. There is many ways to do things and tweak it till you find what works for YOU. Good luck
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Galaxytripper
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Ok, thanks, but "pick up moisture"? What do you mean? The tub will be picking up moisture from the wet Perlite anyway. Pick up moisture from where? How?
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Shotgun Fruiting Chamber questions [Re: Galaxytripper]
#21929497 - 07/11/15 04:08 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Air flowing through bottom holes up thru perlite gets humidified
Idk why so many people have a hard time with the SGFC tek either. Fanning is optional. It's only purpose is to remove mist from the air its not for air exchange, FAE, any of that. Some noobs are saying they mist 3 times and fan 6 a day that's dumb. Some noobs say they need to fan more, that's dumb. Some noobs say they fan 30seconds. Also useless.
Edited by Trusted cuItivator (07/11/15 04:11 PM)
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
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Re: Shotgun Fruiting Chamber questions [Re: Galaxytripper]
#21929511 - 07/11/15 04:10 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I find a SGFC does not work great for me either but its a good place to start for most people. I also prefer my modified hybrid mini monos to the standard 6 hole 66 quart mono but when starting out the standards help people give advice on dialing the system in. Once a person has a dozen grows under the belt they can start to tweak things to match their situation. I have a FC that I will never post a pic of that can really kill it with perfect conditions. But it took me a long time to dial it in (think years) and its really easier to roll with monotubs IMO.
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Rebelutionsssss
Mdmazing



Registered: 07/23/14
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Re: Shotgun Fruiting Chamber questions [Re: bodhisatta]
#21929513 - 07/11/15 04:11 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: Air flowing through bottom holes up thru perlite gets humidified
-------------------- : To define is to confine.
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Galaxytripper
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Re: Shotgun Fruiting Chamber questions [Re: spacechildo]
#21929549 - 07/11/15 04:16 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
no need to fan at all, but you want to mist it when it looks dry.
So the purpose of the SGFC design is to do away with the need to fan, yeah? As regards misting when it looks dry, -what what looks dry? The terrarium or the cakes?
If you're referring to the terrarium, well, with a supposedly accurate hygrometer reading 60% and absolutely NO condensation on the walls, (which is the norm, as far as I can see) it's always going to "look " dry. My understanding is that humidity should be around 99%. If so, then the problem is to get it up to that level. With a terrarium riddled with holes, I don't see that ever happening.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


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Re: Shotgun Fruiting Chamber questions [Re: Galaxytripper]
#21929562 - 07/11/15 04:20 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Read the second link in my signature
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Galaxytripper
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Re: Shotgun Fruiting Chamber questions [Re: bodhisatta]
#21929577 - 07/11/15 04:23 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Hm. Ok, so what you're saying is, that in spite of the fact that the terrarium is on a flat, opaque surface, and that the sandwich consisting of the bottom of the terrarium plus said opaque surface together does not present not the least obstacle to the air, and to the contrary, is somehow encouraged and invited in from beneath the Perlite. Makes perfect sense to me. Not.
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Rebelutionsssss
Mdmazing



Registered: 07/23/14
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Re: Shotgun Fruiting Chamber questions [Re: Galaxytripper]
#21929587 - 07/11/15 04:26 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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It should be raised up on 4 half pint jars to allow airflow
-------------------- : To define is to confine.
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Galaxytripper
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Ah! This point I did not know. Thank you for that! We're getting there. We're getting there.
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Galaxytripper
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Re: Shotgun Fruiting Chamber questions [Re: bodhisatta]
#21929618 - 07/11/15 04:31 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Ok. Thanks. Will do.
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Rebelutionsssss
Mdmazing



Registered: 07/23/14
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Re: Shotgun Fruiting Chamber questions [Re: Galaxytripper]
#21929634 - 07/11/15 04:34 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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one step at a time buddy
-------------------- : To define is to confine.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Shotgun Fruiting Chamber questions [Re: Galaxytripper]
#21929657 - 07/11/15 04:41 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Galaxytripper said: Hm. Ok, so what you're saying is, that in spite of the fact that the terrarium is on a flat, opaque surface, and that the sandwich consisting of the bottom of the terrarium plus said opaque surface together does not present not the least obstacle to the air, and to the contrary, is somehow encouraged and invited in from beneath the Perlite. Makes perfect sense to me. Not.
read dude. fuck
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Galaxytripper
ExpertNovice


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Re: Shotgun Fruiting Chamber questions [Re: bodhisatta]
#21929698 - 07/11/15 04:50 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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C'mon. Gimme a break. I watched Roger Rabbit's video. He didn't have the terrarium raised up. I was following that, hence my question. Facepalm all you want, but I'm just looking for correct information. It's not like there's not a plethora of contradictory information out there.
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up



Registered: 01/24/13
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Re: Shotgun Fruiting Chamber questions [Re: Galaxytripper]
#21929705 - 07/11/15 04:52 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: Read the second link in my signature
the info there seems pretty consistent to me  what did you find contradictory galaxytripper?
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tryptkaloids
Learner



Registered: 02/08/15
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Re: Shotgun Fruiting Chamber questions [Re: Galaxytripper]
#21929716 - 07/11/15 04:54 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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the temperature differential between the air in the perlite and the air in the chamber pulls air through moist perlite adding water to the air.
Quote:
So the purpose of the SGFC design is to do away with the need to fan, yeah?
no. the purpose of fanning is to relieve humidity. humidity staying constant is no help. it needs to fluctuate.
Quote:
As regards misting when it looks dry, -what what looks dry? The terrarium or the cakes?
the cakes. keep them moist. the perlite. keep that moist as possible. this is the source of your humidity.
look at the reason for why everything is used. this might help.
Quote:
It's not like there's not a plethora of contradictory information out there.
use the advanced search. you can limit it to all info within the last year
-------------------- "Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage Flowchart for Recommended plan of action. Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms Use the Damn search engine After you know what you're doing, take a break Pick a book, Make some chips! Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
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Rebelutionsssss
Mdmazing



Registered: 07/23/14
Posts: 13,137
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Re: Shotgun Fruiting Chamber questions [Re: tryptkaloids]
#21929732 - 07/11/15 04:56 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I thought the reason for fanning was to get rid of co2 build up that the mycelium gives off?
-------------------- : To define is to confine.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Shotgun Fruiting Chamber questions [Re: Galaxytripper]
#21929750 - 07/11/15 04:59 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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then use the research skills they teach you in middle school. peer review, time tested, results proven, paper trail of success, etc.. those things. in addition there's other things like the age of what you're looking at, layout and readability. you know context clues.
Quote:
Of course, it should go without saying that for this system to work properly, the terrarium must be elevated at least 1" above the table it's sitting on. Use blocks of wood, shot glasses, or whatever you have around the house to raise the terrarium off the table so air can circulate under it. It should also be noted that 90% of all airborne contaminants in a room are located near the floor, so make sure your terrarium has a home on a table or shelf.
http://www.mushroomvideos.com/Terrarium-Tek
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
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Re: Shotgun Fruiting Chamber questions [Re: bodhisatta]
#21929754 - 07/11/15 04:59 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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co2 doesn't build up, gasses in non enclosed spaces are infinitely miscible. there could be a concentration gradient moving away from your cakes but co2 is carried out through the hundreds of holes automatically faster than you would imagine.
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tryptkaloids
Learner



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Re: Shotgun Fruiting Chamber questions [Re: bodhisatta]
#21929766 - 07/11/15 05:03 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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-------------------- "Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage Flowchart for Recommended plan of action. Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms Use the Damn search engine After you know what you're doing, take a break Pick a book, Make some chips! Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
Edited by tryptkaloids (07/11/15 05:05 PM)
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


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Re: Shotgun Fruiting Chamber questions [Re: tryptkaloids]
#21929770 - 07/11/15 05:05 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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it's either me or pussyfart that typed it is my guess
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tryptkaloids
Learner



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Re: Shotgun Fruiting Chamber questions [Re: bodhisatta]
#21929780 - 07/11/15 05:08 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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-------------------- "Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage Flowchart for Recommended plan of action. Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms Use the Damn search engine After you know what you're doing, take a break Pick a book, Make some chips! Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
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Rebelutionsssss
Mdmazing



Registered: 07/23/14
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Re: Shotgun Fruiting Chamber questions [Re: bodhisatta]
#21929785 - 07/11/15 05:10 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Ahhhh I see. It's been a good while since my last grow so I'm a bit rusty on my info
-------------------- : To define is to confine.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
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just usual internet business pulling peoples legs and stuff. free help isn't roses and sunshine help
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Galaxytripper
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Registered: 09/08/13
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Re: Shotgun Fruiting Chamber questions [Re: spacechildo]
#21929887 - 07/11/15 05:37 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I never said I'd read all the information that bodhisatta had referred me too. I'm not there yet. I've read a lot, but not enough, apparently. It seems "a lot" is usually never enough. I said I'd followed RR's video on the SGFC. He planked it on a flat surface, as did I. The contradictory material was more of a general comment, which, to me, is undeniable. One person says one thing, someone else says another. Along comes someone else to contradict both. You must know how that goes.
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Galaxytripper
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That's what I thought too. To get rid of the cO2 and replace with fresh air exchange.
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Galaxytripper
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Re: Shotgun Fruiting Chamber questions [Re: tryptkaloids]
#21930598 - 07/11/15 08:03 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
the purpose of fanning is to relieve humidity. humidity staying constant is no help. it needs to fluctuate.
See, that's more of it, (not you), but just that there's loads of contradictory information. I know you're trying to help. Anyway, I had read that we need to keep up the humidity to around 99%, as a factor in pinning. You say that we need to RELIEVE humidity and that it needs to fluctuate. I had never see it written that too much humidity was ever defined as a problem. If anything, the problem would be if there was too little. If we really need to "relieve" it, what is the proper, most desirable level of humidity, understood as a percentage number? I understood that what we're trying to do is keep the air moist, so the tiny moisture droplets land on the cakes, and keep them hydrated, yeah? Then some say not to spray onto the cakes directly, some say, yeah, that's ok. Who to believe?
So which is it and why? And believe me, it is very important for me to understand the whys and wherefores, and therefores in all of this, but so many don't have it straight.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
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Loc: Milky way
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Re: Shotgun Fruiting Chamber questions [Re: Galaxytripper]
#21930647 - 07/11/15 08:11 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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you always have 99% humidity where it matters, the dunk and roll puts wet verm all around your cake. the humidity is 99% in the few millimeters from your cake that's all that matters. the air in the SGFC chamber should vary in humidity
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Rebelutionsssss
Mdmazing



Registered: 07/23/14
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Re: Shotgun Fruiting Chamber questions [Re: bodhisatta]
#21930723 - 07/11/15 08:29 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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You also want the water to evaporate as that is the number one reason for pinning
-------------------- : To define is to confine.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
Rebelutionsssss said: You also want the water to evaporate as that is the number one reason for pinning
While many people agree that evaporation is a pinning trigger I would say the number 1 condition is full colonization and number 2 is fresh air being introduced.
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Rebelutionsssss
Mdmazing



Registered: 07/23/14
Posts: 13,137
Loc: San Francisco
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Re: Shotgun Fruiting Chamber questions [Re: Pastywhyte]
#21930907 - 07/11/15 09:20 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'll take your word all this talk is making me sad I don't have a grow going on anymore
-------------------- : To define is to confine.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
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Yeah I hear ya. I had nothing to spawn and no cubes to watch. Was feeling pretty low until I discovered a tub I had probably spawned weeks ago the other day. Forgot all about it. Cased er up and it will have to tide me over until my IRL shit is dealt with.
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Galaxytripper
ExpertNovice


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Re: Shotgun Fruiting Chamber questions [Re: bodhisatta]
#21931119 - 07/11/15 10:09 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Ok. Brilliant. That's the info I needed. Very much appreciated. It's great to just understand the inner workings.
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tryptkaloids
Learner



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Re: Shotgun Fruiting Chamber questions [Re: bodhisatta]
#21931273 - 07/11/15 10:55 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Galaxytripper said: Ok. Brilliant. That's the info I needed. Very much appreciated. It's great to just understand the inner workings.
Definately is! I have spent a long long long time reading about this stuff. I havn't even gotten to this stage yet. but listen to these guys they know what they're doing.
Quote:
Rebelutionsssss said: all this talk is making me sad I don't have a grow going on anymore 
what are you waiting for? get to work! thanks for helping out.
Quote:
bodhisatta said: you always have 99% humidity where it matters, the dunk and roll puts wet verm all around your cake. the humidity is 99% in the few millimeters from your cake that's all that matters. the air in the SGFC chamber should vary in humidity
could not have said it better myself! OP if it weren't for the guys in this thread I would not be able to answer any of your questions. stay here. do more reading than talking and you will do more than okay
-------------------- "Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage Flowchart for Recommended plan of action. Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms Use the Damn search engine After you know what you're doing, take a break Pick a book, Make some chips! Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
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