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OfflinefirstTIMER420
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1st time monotub ?'s and checklist
    #21926711 - 07/10/15 11:51 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Ok, im going to attempt(and I do stress "attempt") my first monotubs, and want to start the grains tomorrow.  I know it will need to colonize for a while and id like to start it while the last of my cakes are fruiting.  With that said, here it goes:

I will be following

-franks 12 step
-how to dial monotubs like a boss
-advice from shroomerites(that's you!):D
-some others I may have forgot(haven't forgot you pasty, mad, and countless others that helped on my first grow, which is definitely the most crucial one and can make or break someone's willingness to commit or leave this hobby, for good.)


Now, since it seems like franks 12 is geared towards using WBS and I am using rye berries, I have a question regarding rye berries. 

1.I have seen people talk about using rye berries, although they can be expensive(not really though) I have chosen to use them, and people talk about not even needing to soak them.  This may be complete BS and people just talking out of their ass, or something that may be true and I now have 2 options. If you don't need to soak, why? I am assuming it would better hydrate the grains therefore providing more of what the mushies need to grow.

2. How long do I soak the grains for, before boiling(soft or hard boil)I have seen people say 6 hours, and up to 24 hrs, what do you find works best for you, and provides the highest amount of yields(including, fastest colonization time, amount of pins/fruits, etc..)

3.Boiling.  Franks tek, like I said, is about WBS.  Im guessing using a different grain will affect boiling times as well as whether is should be a hard or soft boil. My plan is currently to boil for about 10 minutes in a medium boil, not really hot/hard, and not where its just barely boiling.

4.inoculation.  Now, ive always used BRF/PF jars up until this point, and have never had a contam on any of my jars.  The tek calls for flaming the needle, then squirting a drop or two of liquid out of the needle to cool it off before inoculating the grains.  Since I have never used grains before, I am asking if that even matters, because I have always flamed the needle, then stuck it into the jar(without squirting first) and inoculated since the first drop cools off the liquid off anyways; Although, this does usually leave burned carbon on the MP tape on top of the jar.  Does this matter or can I just do what I normally do?
NOTE: I do have a alcohol lamp now, so I don't think I should squirt before placing the needle in the jar, somehow I think its better, and squirting before would cause contamination.

5.I plan on using 12 jars of spawn, and I know each jar needs to be about 2/3 of the way full of berries, anyone have a close measurement of how many cups of grains that is going to take?

6.Dunking the grains. I have seen people on both sides of the fence. Do I really need to soak the grains after they are done colonizing? If not, why? If so, is 10-15 minutes like in the tek good for RYE BERRIES?

7.Substrate. Im going out on a limb here, and assuming that I wont need to make my substrate until im ready to birth my jars.  Altogether I will need 2 bricks of Coir and 4 quarts of Vermiculite, with 10 quarts of water(boiling), Those measurements will be divided into 2 buckets. I am using ECO EARTH COIR, is that acceptable? 
ALSO, Where should I keep the bucket with the rest of the extra substrate while the tub is colonizing until I need it to case it?
ALSO, how come he does not pasteurize the substrate in the tek?

8.CASING.  People say you don't need to case cubes. Ive heard this countless times.  But, this tek calls for it.  Im wondering why it says to case with the same material used in the sub, which is why im asking for a casing formula that YOU recommend for rye berries, specifically rye berries.

That is all I could come up with, and basically all the questions I have for now, most of them are just clarification of the differences needed when using RYE BERRIES instead of WBS, as the two can be quite different. Please, if possible, answer my questions thoroughly, as you can tell if you've read this far I am thorough, and I like my work to be. I like to have the answers to all my questions before I begin, and I would like to begin tomorrow.

Thank you for your time, and help. :growshrooms:


Edited by firstTIMER420 (07/11/15 12:07 AM)


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Offlinemycomaniac1402
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Re: 1st time monotub ?'s and checklist [Re: firstTIMER420]
    #21926800 - 07/11/15 12:25 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

You can use BRF to spawn to bulk, I do it all the time. No pc so I have no advice for grain as its been at least 3 years since ive done WBS. If you use cakes, birth a day or two after full colo. Scrape off the dry Vermiculite barrier and rinse off the cakes , put them in a large Ziploc and crumble into tiny pieces. Smaller the better. 4 1/2 pints fit perfectly in a 48 q tub

Now tub choice is up to you but id go with a medium sized so all isnt lost if something like moisture, or contamination happens which can if its your first time

Spawning grain to bulk requires no dunking of the grain. If you crumble you grain spread out in a tray , this is why you case as straight grain holds no moisture , ive mixed grain with Vermiculite and cased it straight with good results. No monster mushrooms but you will get alot of them if you have good genetics.

Id Learn a coir tek and spawn either your grain or BRF cakes to it. Very simple to pasteurize coir and Vermiculite, even better to add a few handfuls of manure but its definitely not needed.

If you spawn to a bulk substrate, a casing is not needed. Its late so I hope this answers a few of your questions. Good luck to ya


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OfflineGr0wer
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Re: 1st time monotub ?'s and checklist [Re: firstTIMER420]
    #21926829 - 07/11/15 12:43 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

firstTIMER420 said:

1.I have seen people talk about using rye berries, although they can be expensive(not really though) I have chosen to use them, and people talk about not even needing to soak them.  This may be complete BS and people just talking out of their ass, or something that may be true and I now have 2 options. If you don't need to soak, why? I am assuming it would better hydrate the grains therefore providing more of what the mushies need to grow.

2. How long do I soak the grains for, before boiling(soft or hard boil)I have seen people say 6 hours, and up to 24 hrs, what do you find works best for you, and provides the highest amount of yields(including, fastest colonization time, amount of pins/fruits, etc..)

3.Boiling.  Franks tek, like I said, is about WBS.  Im guessing using a different grain will affect boiling times as well as whether is should be a hard or soft boil. My plan is currently to boil for about 10 minutes in a medium boil, not really hot/hard, and not where its just barely boiling.

4.inoculation.  Now, ive always used BRF/PF jars up until this point, and have never had a contam on any of my jars.  The tek calls for flaming the needle, then squirting a drop or two of liquid out of the needle to cool it off before inoculating the grains.  Since I have never used grains before, I am asking if that even matters, because I have always flamed the needle, then stuck it into the jar(without squirting first) and inoculated since the first drop cools off the liquid off anyways; Although, this does usually leave burned carbon on the MP tape on top of the jar.  Does this matter or can I just do what I normally do?
NOTE: I do have a alcohol lamp now, so I don't think I should squirt before placing the needle in the jar, somehow I think its better, and squirting before would cause contamination.

5.I plan on using 12 jars of spawn, and I know each jar needs to be about 2/3 of the way full of berries, anyone have a close measurement of how many cups of grains that is going to take?

6.Dunking the grains. I have seen people on both sides of the fence. Do I really need to soak the grains after they are done colonizing? If not, why? If so, is 10-15 minutes like in the tek good for RYE BERRIES?

7.Substrate. Im going out on a limb here, and assuming that I wont need to make my substrate until im ready to birth my jars.  Altogether I will need 2 bricks of Coir and 4 quarts of Vermiculite, with 10 quarts of water(boiling), Those measurements will be divided into 2 buckets. I am using ECO EARTH COIR, is that acceptable? 
ALSO, Where should I keep the bucket with the rest of the extra substrate while the tub is colonizing until I need it to case it?
ALSO, how come he does not pasteurize the substrate in the tek?

8.CASING.  People say you don't need to case cubes. Ive heard this countless times.  But, this tek calls for it.  Im wondering why it says to case with the same material used in the sub, which is why im asking for a casing formula that YOU recommend for rye berries, specifically rye berries.

That is all I could come up with, and basically all the questions I have for now, most of them are just clarification of the differences needed when using RYE BERRIES instead of WBS, as the two can be quite different. Please, if possible, answer my questions thoroughly, as you can tell if you've read this far I am thorough, and I like my work to be. I like to have the answers to all my questions before I begin, and I would like to begin tomorrow.

Thank you for your time, and help. :growshrooms:




1-3

I soak and rinse my WBS or Milo grains for 12-24 hours in a warm place, no simmer. You will find without a rinse the grains will stick a lot more especially if the grains are dirty like with WBS. Its all personal preference. I find soak and no simmer gets the grains to hydrate well and not burst, sometimes simmering too hard or too long will make your grains burst. I also recommend using 5% gypsum in all my spawn and substrates.

4
I would recommend finding some polyfill around the house or at the local wal mart and using that as a filter and injection port. Foil your lids and remove the foil just before injecting. Flame the needle, squirt a little through to cool the tip and put it right through the polyfill, squirt a bit down the four sides of the jar till it runs down almost to the bottom. 

5
I use a 2 cup pyrex measuring cup and level it with the top for liquid innoc jars. For GTG i will level it about 1/4" from the measuring cups rim. I use about 260g per jar dry of mostly millet based WBS.

6. I've nevered dunked my spawn, i just break it up and mix it in. It probably does increase your yield simply because you increase the moisture of your substrate. Entirely upto you but not a necessary step.

7 Coir Verm is a weak substrate, very little nutrients in that sub. I would recommend some Horse or cow poo mixed with coir and verm, with 5% gypsum as well. The boiling water is to hydrate the coir, you still need to pasteurize everything at 140-160F for 60-90 min.

8 The casing has little to do with your spawn. I would recommend a Coir casing.


Edited by Gr0wer (07/11/15 12:45 AM)


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OfflineCMOSS
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Re: 1st time monotub ?'s and checklist [Re: firstTIMER420]
    #21927047 - 07/11/15 02:03 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

1.  I would soak, I've seen some of the no soak teks and seems difficult to get moisture content right when working with new grains.  I've never really done a no soak prep before, but I know that the rye I've used is alot cleaner than all WBS mixes i've used (organic food grade)  I feel like doing a no soak with WBS would cause everything to stick in the jar after PCing.


2. I've always done between 6 and 12 hrs, mostly when I get to it.  I also soak them covered in my fridge.

3.There was a difference in boiling times for me.  I did a 'medium' boil as you said, stirring pretty often.  About 10-15min, Just bite into them when you think they are done, shouldn't be hard all the way through.  (In cooking I guess it would be akin to 'par-boiling' the grains)

4.I don't think it matters

5.Can't remember off the top of my head, but rye grains do expand differently than WBS.  As a guess I would do 2 cups dry per quart jar.  Gives good headroom on the expansion, probably have to throw some away though.

6.I would just keep it simple starting out and mess with changing things up once you have a good baseline of technique working out.

7.I would just stick with the basic substrate pasteurization for now, and skip casing this time.

8.KISS


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OfflinefirstTIMER420
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Re: 1st time monotub ?'s and checklist [Re: mycomaniac1402]
    #21930375 - 07/11/15 07:13 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I am using SFD filters for my lids, and I have a question about inoculating.

when inoculating, should I squirt the couple drops along the side of the jar just like in the PF tek, so I can see growth when it starts to occur or just put a few drops in the middle?


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OfflineSyntheticwords
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Re: 1st time monotub ?'s and checklist [Re: firstTIMER420]
    #21930425 - 07/11/15 07:21 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Please read this

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/10900539



You wIll thank me later human


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OfflinefirstTIMER420
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Re: 1st time monotub ?'s and checklist [Re: Syntheticwords]
    #21930472 - 07/11/15 07:33 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

thanks I guess, wall of text and I already knew most of that but there were a few good points in there. 

didn't say anything about inoculating grain jars though, or at least about what im asking about.


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: 1st time monotub ?'s and checklist [Re: Syntheticwords]
    #21930481 - 07/11/15 07:34 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

who's quotes are those? I started reading from the bottom and found many weird..


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OfflinefirstTIMER420
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Re: 1st time monotub ?'s and checklist [Re: spacechildo]
    #21930491 - 07/11/15 07:37 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

hey space, what do you think about when innocing the grains, should I squirt a few drops on the sides of the jar so I can see growth, or in the middle of the jar/grains


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OfflineMdahmer
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Re: 1st time monotub ?'s and checklist [Re: firstTIMER420]
    #21930493 - 07/11/15 07:37 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

you just squirt it in my man. you can cool it off with a squirt if you want but like you said it does that on its own as you innoc. with grain jars i never used injection ports except my first run after that if i used spores i just lift the lid in a sab and squirt the spores in.

the black soot wont hurt anything but you shouldnt have it with an alcohol lamp anyway i dont think. or not as much


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Re: 1st time monotub ?'s and checklist [Re: Syntheticwords]
    #21930499 - 07/11/15 07:38 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I liked using a silicone injection port on the side of the lid and poly fill in the center so I wasn't taking the lid off , dont like working in a glove box. But if using a full synthetic disc you'll have to inoculate via cracking the lid. Unless you cut and silicone a quarter size piece to your lids. I eventually did this instead of poly after buying a bunch of plastic lids. I used to just squirt a half cc against the jar wall. I kept them 2/3 full , no more it was difficult to shake if I put in too much grain


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: 1st time monotub ?'s and checklist [Re: firstTIMER420]
    #21930501 - 07/11/15 07:39 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

firstTIMER420 said:
hey space, what do you think about when innocing the grains, should I squirt a few drops on the sides of the jar so I can see growth, or in the middle of the jar/grains




well do you want to see what's growing or not? I would like to see it :thumbup:


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OfflineSyntheticwords
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Re: 1st time monotub ?'s and checklist [Re: spacechildo]
    #21930519 - 07/11/15 07:42 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

If using spores

Go ahead and inject down the side

Make sure you do not shake as with spores they need time to find each other and hug


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OfflinefirstTIMER420
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Re: 1st time monotub ?'s and checklist [Re: mycomaniac1402]
    #21930761 - 07/11/15 08:39 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I have seen a lot of people dispute on how much to inject into each jar, im thinking ill do a half cc at the most in each jar.  Thinking that wull be sufficient.


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OfflineICEMANOO9
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Re: 1st time monotub ?'s and checklist [Re: firstTIMER420]
    #21931187 - 07/11/15 10:26 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Dude frank is the shit follow his teks like it's the bible lol jk but for reals HE knows his shit.

1. You need to soak for 24~36 because apparently bacterial endospores have now germinated on the seeds at this point and will now be much easier to kill off in the sterilization process. If you don't soak they may possibly survive the cycle and germinate later when your into your grow and contam it. Yes add some gypsum that will prevent clumping of seeds

2. I just soak for 24 hrs , set it when you go to bed. Wake up . Work. 24 hrs later dump and lay out to dry. In the morning before work atleast plan 2 hrs or so before, your seeds will be dry, you can load them up and PC them for 1hr before you leave. And when you come home you'll have cooled jars waiting for you.

3.yea boiling suck with WBS tbh. What I do is measure out the water with the seed than dump the water alone  back into it's own pot and boil hard. Than add that boiling water to your seeds and let it sit for 40 mins.  Or a moderate boil/simmer with seed for 10 mins 15 idk. The seeds will look plump and juicy and you'll smell the seed too. Smells good :smile:

4. Yea doesn't matter but like you said probably try and squirt it down the side. I did it down the middle and I couldn't see it until I shook the jar and the whole core was colonized lol. So yea the sides of possible.

5. Qt or pint? I used 12 cups of seed for qts but that's like 6 jars

6.lol good questions. I did and it worked pretty good but not necessary. If your sub is on the drier side after pasteurizing than it may be suggested to hydrate the grains .

7.never done coir. But I heard you can sterilize it because it's contam resistent.
8.havent done rye berries only WBS. But you can case with straight verm. That's what I did and mine flushed great

How this helps bruda


Edited by ICEMANOO9 (07/11/15 10:28 PM)


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