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Aureus
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How is Psilocybin converted to Psilocin inside our body?
#21926607 - 07/10/15 11:09 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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I've always heard that it is absorbed by the small intestine and then converted inside the liver into psilocin, but no one ever explains how exactly it happens.
Edited by Aureus (07/11/15 12:03 AM)
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PurePleasure
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Re: How is Psilocybin converted to Psilocin inside our body? [Re: Aureus] 1
#21927363 - 07/11/15 04:04 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Well.i would assume since lemon juice and other acidic juices converts psilocybin into psilocin, your stomach acid would break it down by the time it reached the blood brain barrier but I could be wrong
-------------------- If you aren't happy with what you have now, how could you be any happier with more? (Get your SGFC high.)
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Sys
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Re: How is Psilocybin converted to Psilocin inside our body? [Re: PurePleasure] 1
#21927514 - 07/11/15 05:43 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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If I remember correctly, Psilocybin converts to psilocin in the liver, then into various psilocin metabolites which are either passed in urine or proceed to make you trip balls. Monoamine oxidase Enzymes play some role in what happens as the psilocin metabolites begin to work in your neural/nervous system, which is why MAOI's have an affect on an individual's sensitivity to Psilocybin/psilocin.
I'm nowhere near an expert in this, so if I've gotten something wrong feel free to correct me, but that's my understanding of the whole process.
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GuruKhan
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Re: How is Psilocybin converted to Psilocin inside our body? [Re: Aureus] 1
#21927567 - 07/11/15 06:10 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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i highly doubt the liver converts it cause to my understanding that would take hours before you come up, your stomach acids dissolve it enough and it passes through the lining of your stomach into your bloodstream straight to your brain.
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george castanza
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Re: How is Psilocybin converted to Psilocin inside our body? (moved) [Re: Aureus] 1
#21927593 - 07/11/15 06:26 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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This thread was moved from Mushroom Cultivation.
Reason: Perhaps someone in this forum could elaborate.
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: How is Psilocybin converted to Psilocin inside our body? (moved) [Re: george castanza] 1
#21927824 - 07/11/15 08:07 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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On the topic of psilocybin and psilocin, one of the most frequent questions I am asked is, "Isn't it true that psilocybin is immediately converted to psilocin in the blood stream, and so the two chemicals are in essence identical, molecule for molecule?" At this moment I always suppress a brief sense of mental fragmentation, with the automatic reply, "Where is the evidence that psilocybin is converted to psilocin in man?" If it exists, I certainly do not know of it. This clears my conscience. I really do not know the answer. But I have a tremendously strong suspicion that it really does. Any such ester, be it the phosphate, the sulfate, or the acetate, would all be easily split to the archetypal indolol by the ubiquitous esterases in the body. I do indeed believe, in my inner heart, that they all act upon the brain as the same end product, psilocin. And here, with the N,N-diethyl homologue, the same arguments probably hold as well.
There are two generalizations implicit here, one of which I am quite at peace with, but the other is both complex and disturbing. The OK item is the casual equation between the hydroxy compound psilocin, the acetate ester, and the phosphate ester, psilocybin. As I had discussed in the CZ-74 to CEY-19 entries in 4-HO-DET, there is no proof that the ester goes to the indolol metabolically, but it is a good guess, and there have been no demonstrated differences in their pharmacology. Ditto here, with psilocin and psilocybin. I have explored both of them as pure chemicals, and I find them completely interchangeable as to their pharmacological properties.
Alexander shulgin TIHKAL 1997
There must be some more recent science here...
I always guessed that the conversion was enzymatic, but this doesn't mean the liver, enzymes occur in many areas...
If someone could find some recent research I'm sure answers will be found.
-E. Borodin
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Nature Boy
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Re: How is Psilocybin converted to Psilocin inside our body? [Re: Aureus] 1
#21927987 - 07/11/15 09:01 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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-------------------- All submitted posts under this user name are works of pure fiction or outright lies. Any information, statement, or assertion contained therein should be considered pure unadulterated bullshit. Note well: Sorry, but I do not answer PM's unless you are a long-time trusted friend. If you have a question, ask it in the appropriate thread.
Edited by Nature Boy (07/11/15 09:06 AM)
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Aureus
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Re: How is Psilocybin converted to Psilocin inside our body? [Re: Nature Boy]
#21929639 - 07/11/15 04:35 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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I've been searching it, what i found is that the psilocybin is absorbed by the small intestine, enters the bloodstream and goes through the liver where is produced a substance called "Glucuronic Acid" the precursor of vitamin C (Ascorbic acid). This substance is used by the liver to convert strange substances(drugs) into readily excreted hydrophilic products. So, the glucuronic acid binds to the psilocybin and then allows it to cross the brain barrier. Correct me if i'm wrong.
Edited by Aureus (07/11/15 04:42 PM)
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Nature Boy
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Re: How is Psilocybin converted to Psilocin inside our body? [Re: Aureus] 2
#21930185 - 07/11/15 06:47 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Two words. Enzymatic dephosphorylation.
N.B.
-------------------- All submitted posts under this user name are works of pure fiction or outright lies. Any information, statement, or assertion contained therein should be considered pure unadulterated bullshit. Note well: Sorry, but I do not answer PM's unless you are a long-time trusted friend. If you have a question, ask it in the appropriate thread.
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PrimalSoup
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Re: How is Psilocybin converted to Psilocin inside our body? [Re: Aureus] 1
#21931451 - 07/11/15 11:40 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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It's the liver folks, the gateway for aQuote:
Aureus said: I've always heard that it is absorbed by the small intestine and then converted inside the liver into psilocin, but no one ever explains how exactly it happens.
Wikipedia is your friend:
Quote:
Psilocybin is metabolized mostly in the liver. As it becomes converted to psilocin, it undergoes a first-pass effect, whereby its concentration is greatly reduced before it reaches the systemic circulation. Psilocin is broken down by the enzyme monoamine oxidase to produce several metabolites that can circulate in the blood plasma, including 4-hydroxyindole-3-acetaldehyde, 4-hydroxytryptophol, and 4-hydroxyindole-3-acetic acid.[1] Some psilocin is not broken down by enzymes and instead forms a glucuronide; this is a biochemical mechanism animals use to eliminate toxic substances by linking them with glucuronic acid, which can then be excreted in the urine.[69][70] Psilocin is glucuronated by the glucuronosyltransferase enzymes UGT1A9 in the liver, and by UGT1A10 in the small intestine.[71] Based on studies using animals, about 50% of ingested psilocybin is absorbed through the stomach and intestine. Within 24 hours, about 65% of the absorbed psilocybin is excreted into the urine, and a further 15–20% is excreted in the bile and feces. Although most of the remaining drug is eliminated in this way within 8 hours, it is still detectable in the urine after 7 days.[72] Clinical studies show that psilocin concentrations in the plasma of adults average about 8 µg/liter within 2 hours after ingestion of a single 15 mg oral psilocybin dose;[73] psychological effects occur with a blood plasma concentration of 4–6 µg/liter.[1] Psilocybin is about 100 times less potent than LSD on a weight per weight basis, and the physiological effects last about half as long.[74]
Note the bolded larger part - I think this might help to explain enhanced effects due to lemon tek and acid tea infusions, because the passage through the stomach may account for a majority of uptake and anything that improves that has the potential to double the effects, apparently.
Wikipedia is your friend.
-------------------- if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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PurePleasure
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Quote:
Coincidentiaoppositorum said: On the topic of psilocybin and psilocin, one of the most frequent questions I am asked is, "Isn't it true that psilocybin is immediately converted to psilocin in the blood stream, and so the two chemicals are in essence identical, molecule for molecule?" At this moment I always suppress a brief sense of mental fragmentation, with the automatic reply, "Where is the evidence that psilocybin is converted to psilocin in man?" If it exists, I certainly do not know of it. This clears my conscience. I really do not know the answer. But I have a tremendously strong suspicion that it really does. Any such ester, be it the phosphate, the sulfate, or the acetate, would all be easily split to the archetypal indolol by the ubiquitous esterases in the body. I do indeed believe, in my inner heart, that they all act upon the brain as the same end product, psilocin. And here, with the N,N-diethyl homologue, the same arguments probably hold as well.
There are two generalizations implicit here, one of which I am quite at peace with, but the other is both complex and disturbing. The OK item is the casual equation between the hydroxy compound psilocin, the acetate ester, and the phosphate ester, psilocybin. As I had discussed in the CZ-74 to CEY-19 entries in 4-HO-DET, there is no proof that the ester goes to the indolol metabolically, but it is a good guess, and there have been no demonstrated differences in their pharmacology. Ditto here, with psilocin and psilocybin. I have explored both of them as pure chemicals, and I find them completely interchangeable as to their pharmacological properties.
Alexander shulgin TIHKAL 1997
There must be some more recent science here...
I always guessed that the conversion was enzymatic, but this doesn't mean the liver, enzymes occur in many areas...
If someone could find some recent research I'm sure answers will be found.
-E. Borodin
Psilocin is/ breaks down to 4-ho-dmt
-------------------- If you aren't happy with what you have now, how could you be any happier with more? (Get your SGFC high.)
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Aureus
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Re: How is Psilocybin converted to Psilocin inside our body? [Re: PrimalSoup]
#21931826 - 07/12/15 01:43 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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The other day I took Paracetamol 30 minutes before taking 4 grams of shrooms in a tea. I don't know what happened but it only kicked in 2 hours later when i coincidentally ate a sandwich, it was almost like the sandwich triggered the effects. Paracetamol is known to affect the liver, does it have anything to do with it?
Edited by Aureus (07/12/15 03:07 AM)
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wolf8312
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Re: How is Psilocybin converted to Psilocin inside our body? [Re: Aureus]
#21932042 - 07/12/15 04:01 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Alot of people swear by the claim that the same thing happens with DMT/Anahuasca. That they have a bite to eat and it then kicks in. Very difficult to prove or explain though and there are enough of us that it doesn't work this way for to make the case rather wonky. If food does in fact ignite the mushroom or DMT experience in some way it must be something unique only to certain individuals.
Is it not possible that there was something else responsible for delaying the experience? A full stomach, slow metabolism, or just a skewed perception of how much time had actually past?
Still seems like too many people have made the same claims for it to be bullshit!
-------------------- "I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of." Pennywise the dancing clown
Edited by wolf8312 (07/12/15 04:11 AM)
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: How is Psilocybin converted to Psilocin inside our body? (moved) [Re: PurePleasure]
#21932245 - 07/12/15 06:25 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
PurePleasure said:
Quote:
Coincidentiaoppositorum said: On the topic of psilocybin and psilocin, one of the most frequent questions I am asked is, "Isn't it true that psilocybin is immediately converted to psilocin in the blood stream, and so the two chemicals are in essence identical, molecule for molecule?" At this moment I always suppress a brief sense of mental fragmentation, with the automatic reply, "Where is the evidence that psilocybin is converted to psilocin in man?" If it exists, I certainly do not know of it. This clears my conscience. I really do not know the answer. But I have a tremendously strong suspicion that it really does. Any such ester, be it the phosphate, the sulfate, or the acetate, would all be easily split to the archetypal indolol by the ubiquitous esterases in the body. I do indeed believe, in my inner heart, that they all act upon the brain as the same end product, psilocin. And here, with the N,N-diethyl homologue, the same arguments probably hold as well.
There are two generalizations implicit here, one of which I am quite at peace with, but the other is both complex and disturbing. The OK item is the casual equation between the hydroxy compound psilocin, the acetate ester, and the phosphate ester, psilocybin. As I had discussed in the CZ-74 to CEY-19 entries in 4-HO-DET, there is no proof that the ester goes to the indolol metabolically, but it is a good guess, and there have been no demonstrated differences in their pharmacology. Ditto here, with psilocin and psilocybin. I have explored both of them as pure chemicals, and I find them completely interchangeable as to their pharmacological properties.
Alexander shulgin TIHKAL 1997
There must be some more recent science here...
I always guessed that the conversion was enzymatic, but this doesn't mean the liver, enzymes occur in many areas...
If someone could find some recent research I'm sure answers will be found.
-E. Borodin
Psilocin is/ breaks down to 4-ho-dmt
Yes and shulgin knew this, he was saying there is no evidence that this happened in vivo (in the body) and at the time shulgin wrote this there wasn't.
it's easy to convert 4-phosphorloxy-DMT into 4-hydroxy-DMT in the lab, all shulgin was saying is where is the evidence that this happens in the human body....and at that time there really wasn't any.
Acetyl groups metabolize into hydrogen atoms and acetoxy groups metabolize into hydroxy groups...
This is why N-acetyl-LAD is said to metabolize into LSD in vivo...
And while chemists know all this, the actual evidence was sparse.
I've never questioned that this was the case, it's the most logical pathway for the compounds to follow...so while I'm sure New evidence exists now, if you listened to shulgin in 1997 he said though there is no evidence I know this is the case.
-E. Borodin
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
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Any such ester, be it the phosphate, the sulfate, or the acetate, would all be easily split to the archetypal indolol by the ubiquitous esterases in the body -A. Shulgin; TIHKAL; 1997
Meaning that the sulfate ester of DMT should convert to 4-hydroxy-DMT (psilocin) just as easily as the phosphate or acetate ester.
Does a 4 substituted sulfate ester of DMT exist? I don't know, but I can bet that it would metabolize into psilocin just as readily as 4-po-DMT or 4-ACO-DMT.
-E. Borodin
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
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With 1-propionyl-lysergic acid diethylamide the propionyl group is metabolized into a hydrogen atom, converting 1PLSD to LSD in vivo...
Maybe a 4 substituted propionyl ester of DMT, or a close variation of it would metabolize to psilocin as well...
-E. Borodin
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PrimalSoup
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Re: How is Psilocybin converted to Psilocin inside our body? (moved) [Re: PurePleasure]
#21932394 - 07/12/15 07:44 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
PurePleasure said:
Psilocin is/ breaks down to 4-ho-dmt
-------------------- if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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PurePleasure
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Re: How is Psilocybin converted to Psilocin inside our body? [Re: wolf8312]
#21932529 - 07/12/15 08:47 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
wolf8312 said: Alot of people swear by the claim that the same thing happens with DMT/Anahuasca. That they have a bite to eat and it then kicks in. Very difficult to prove or explain though and there are enough of us that it doesn't work this way for to make the case rather wonky. If food does in fact ignite the mushroom or DMT experience in some way it must be something unique only to certain individuals.
Is it not possible that there was something else responsible for delaying the experience? A full stomach, slow metabolism, or just a skewed perception of how much time had actually past?
Still seems like too many people have made the same claims for it to be bullshit!
The only thing that would suggest eating would induce a trip is because it tells your mind to start working, opening up, and breaking down food. Take this for example I had a test done where I had to drink this chalk and they could see it flow through my body in an ex ray. I sat there for a whiiile and you could see the chalk soupy shit was just staying in my stomach. The lady then said, close your eyes and pretend your eating a cheese burger. Try to imagine the taste on your tounge. And after I did that you could see my stomach opening up and letting the chalk start passing through.
But for me, 30 minutes after I eat I'm already tripping. and if your make a hot lemon juice tea, that shit kicks in damn near instantly. No getting around that one.
-------------------- If you aren't happy with what you have now, how could you be any happier with more? (Get your SGFC high.)
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PrimalSoup
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Re: How is Psilocybin converted to Psilocin inside our body? [Re: PurePleasure]
#21933339 - 07/12/15 12:35 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Good points.
-------------------- if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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Aureus
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Re: How is Psilocybin converted to Psilocin inside our body? [Re: PrimalSoup]
#21933986 - 07/12/15 03:29 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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But I don't think it was the food. My theory is that the paracetamol was preventing my liver from working properly. When I ate the sandwich, the absorption of the paracetamol tablet slowed down, which allowed my liver to convert the actives that were already in my bloodstream through the glucuronidation process.
Edited by Aureus (07/12/15 09:34 PM)
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PurePleasure
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Re: How is Psilocybin converted to Psilocin inside our body? [Re: PrimalSoup]
#21935728 - 07/13/15 12:22 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
PrimalSoup said: Good points.
Thanks
To sum it up, if ain't tea, it ain't for me.
-------------------- If you aren't happy with what you have now, how could you be any happier with more? (Get your SGFC high.)
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