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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
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Re: Violet's V-Tek ??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#21969704 - 07/20/15 08:24 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I can't imagine being at a point in my life where I could say I never want to grow a large monotub. Craziness...
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Violet's V-Tek ??? [Re: Inocuole]
#21969851 - 07/20/15 09:10 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yet it's something that has been fairly commonly said, even by some of the bigger tub guys on here.
Orca, pay no mind to bodhisatta. His complaints about his interactions with me are true only by his own making. For well over a year he has purposefully, by his own declaration, picked fights with me, largely in the attempt to drive me away, again his words not my claim. I even get his "friends" message me sometimes with apologies on his behalf since he would never dare do so himself. The issues he points to wouldn't even exist were it not for his poor choices. There was like a week some time ago where everything was nice after I confronted a group about it, and and it seemed he was going to be respectable and respectful. But unfortunately yet predictably it wore off, and didn't take long before he went back to being hateful and cutting in that exact way, completely without provocation.
"If you never deal with contams how can you know your sterile technique is good?" Gotta say, that seems like a pretty silly question to me. Fixing something not broken? If you never (seldom) deal with contams, it must be pretty clear that your sterile technique is beyond sufficient, and that you're doing everything right that's called for. Sterile technique comes down to the technique used to grow sterile just as much as, if not moreso than, controlled motions in transfers. Seldom dealing with contams means you've married the two ideally. Jars and modified lids were used to turn certain facets of manual sterile tech into part of the process. It's almost the very definition of Technology. Methods like mine simply move the myco process even further down the path it's always been going - Intelligently getting the gear and process to do the job better and more easily.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
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KauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
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Re: Violet's V-Tek ??? [Re: Violet]
#21969863 - 07/20/15 09:17 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Violet said: Yet it's something that has been fairly commonly said, even by some of the bigger tub guys on here.
Orca, pay no mind to bodhisatta. His complaints about his interactions with me are true only by his own making. For well over a year he has purposefully, by his own declaration, picked fights with me, largely in the attempt to drive me away, again his words not my claim. I even get his "friends" message me sometimes with apologies on his behalf since he would never dare do so himself. The issues he points to wouldn't even exist were it not for his poor choices. There was like a week some time ago where everything was nice after I confronted a group about it, and and it seemed he was going to be respectable and respectful. But unfortunately yet predictably it wore off, and didn't take long before he went back to being hateful and cutting in that exact way, completely without provocation.
"If you never deal with contams how can you know your sterile technique is good?" Gotta say, that seems like a pretty silly question to me. Fixing something not broken? If you never (seldom) deal with contams, it must be pretty clear that your sterile technique is beyond sufficient, and that you're doing everything right that's called for. Sterile technique comes down to the technique used to grow sterile just as much as, if not moreso than, controlled motions in transfers. Seldom dealing with contams means you've married the two ideally. Jars and modified lids were used to turn certain facets of manual sterile tech into part of the process. It's almost the very definition of Technology. Methods like mine simply move the myco process even further down the path it's always been going - Intelligently getting the gear and process to do the job better and more easily.
Violet - I've got an invitro MS bag I started a month ago pinning really nicely with some good clusters right in the middle (not sides) and my goal is to identify one of those killer prolific clone cultures … So, would you grab a small pin from one of the cultures then move it to agar then, RGS, then make a Grain LC for use with the WBR/Casing step or would you let the clusters grow out a bit, look for the healthiest one then take a bit of tissue from the base of one of the clusters and transfer that to the Agar? I'm trying to decide which of the two (small pin vs. biopsy tissue from base of grown out cluster) is the highest probability way of getting a good performing clone culture. Thanks!
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
Edited by KauaiOrca (07/20/15 09:31 AM)
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
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Re: Violet's V-Tek ??? [Re: Violet]
#21970325 - 07/20/15 11:38 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Violet said: "If you never deal with contams how can you know your sterile technique is good?" Gotta say, that seems like a pretty silly question to me. Fixing something not broken? If you never (seldom) deal with contams, it must be pretty clear that your sterile technique is beyond sufficient, and that you're doing everything right that's called for.
Perhaps if the rest of your technique serves as a crutch, but then when you go to try to clone a wild fruit or work with a print that might not be clean, it'll show. I'm not interested in having an argument about it, I don't care how anyone else grows.
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Violet's V-Tek ??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#21970352 - 07/20/15 11:49 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Personally I would pluck a small pin. They recover more quickly to colonize thick and healthy. The biopsy can do the same mostly but I prefer pins. If you do let them grow out, keep in mind that at a certain point the pin may continue growing, and open cap and sporulate. Check photos in my culture tech to see what I mean. Regardless of which you choose, remember that you need to spend at least two or three dishes transferring the fastest and healthiest growth to isolate before you bother putting to grains. That's the more important part about cloning and isolating before testing, not necessarily how you took the clone.
Inocuole, there's nothing like a "crutch" about it, any more than any other technique. You still have to have proper still-air-box/sterile airflow technique to avoid contams. I don't see where you're getting reasoning for making such a harsh statement.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
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Re: Violet's V-Tek ??? [Re: Violet]
#21970494 - 07/20/15 12:11 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'm not even talking about your technique or anyone's in particular, but I guess if you took it that way, I could see how the statement is harsh. However, I daresay it could potentially be easier for someone to get away with sloppy technique using your tek, maybe, if they wanted to be able to get away with it. 
It's not always a bad thing. I just like large grows for the most part and they inevitably require a different set of variables that some tend to shy away from. I don't even know what all we're talking about in here anymore, there was just an element of what bod said that I resonated with. Outside of that I don't have any beef and am not looking to start any.
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Machiavelliavore
Vermiculite Hater



Registered: 12/08/14
Posts: 3,038
Loc: The Sporetorn States
Last seen: 3 months, 20 days
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Re: Violet's V-Tek ??? [Re: Inocuole]
#21970511 - 07/20/15 12:16 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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"You should purposefully start with dirty samples or you won't appreciate agar."
If one wants to learn to clean samples, then yes. If one just wants good clones, then maybe not.
Personally I've cloned whole fruits. I've only done one invitro grow that did anything other than sidepin, it was cased, and it was pretty anemic anyway so I didn't want to clone from it. It is also nice to see the whole fruit rather than the pin. I've started ripping inner stipe tissue with tweezers, which I find much more effective than knife/scaple work.
That said, if I were looking to find a great isolate and testing a plethora of samples, violets pinplucking sounds like a great way to speed up the process.
If one was only gonna take one or two clones and role with them, whole fruits would probably be preferable.
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I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister. I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave. I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent. Triggered yet? Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."
No, this does not look right...
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KauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
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Thanks Violet & Mach -- That's exactly what I was looking for. I'm going to do both. Take a pin now and put it on agar and then when the biggest meatiest cluster grows out, snag some inner tissue with tweezers and put that on agar and see which one does best.
Appreciate the advice.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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Mushroom_J
Hard to the Coir !



Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 774
Loc: East
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
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Re: Violet's V-Tek ??? [Re: Inocuole]
#21971213 - 07/20/15 03:20 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Inocuole said: I'm not even talking about your technique or anyone's in particular, but I guess if you took it that way, I could see how the statement is harsh. However, I daresay it could potentially be easier for someone to get away with sloppy technique using your tek, maybe, if they wanted to be able to get away with it. 
It's not always a bad thing. I just like large grows for the most part and they inevitably require a different set of variables that some tend to shy away from. I don't even know what all we're talking about in here anymore, there was just an element of what bod said that I resonated with. Outside of that I don't have any beef and am not looking to start any.
You can't get away with sloppy tek doing this. The only crutch I can think of is not using traditional pasteurization for the casing. It's microwaved.
Then again most people are using coco coir for mono subs. With the easy prep methods ( bucket tek, just sterilizing or using as is)... ... You're also skipping traditional pasteurization.
Everything else is the same. Petri work is the same. SAB work is the same. Transfers, gtg, etc etc.... all the same. The containers and invitro are the only real difference.
PF cakes are the real crutch.
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bakenast
Muffen Stuffer


Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 920
Last seen: 1 year, 25 days
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Re: Violet's V-Tek ??? [Re: Violet] 1
#21971764 - 07/20/15 05:19 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Violet said:
Orca, pay no mind to bodhisatta.
nice write up!! agree looks like that bodhisatta has been on shroomery for 2 years and has like 15,000 posts he must seriously have no life.. which is why he follows you around on here
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KauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
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Re: Violet's V-Tek ??? [Re: bakenast]
#21976525 - 07/21/15 05:05 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
bakenast said:
Quote:
Violet said:
Orca, pay no mind to bodhisatta.
nice write up!! agree looks like that bodhisatta has been on shroomery for 2 years and has like 15,000 posts he must seriously have no life.. which is why he follows you around on here
What's cool about it is how easy it is to have a lot of test cultures growing out simultaneously without having to fuss with a fruiting chamber or worry much at all about contams, dunking, rolling, etc. to see which clones will actually pin and grow. A lot of creativity here on Shroomery and that makes it a lot easier for relative newbies to learn.
Bodhisatta gave me some good advice on cloning too … he definitely knows a lot about growing, no doubt about that.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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bakenast
Muffen Stuffer


Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 920
Last seen: 1 year, 25 days
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Re: Violet's V-Tek ??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#21976645 - 07/21/15 05:31 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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im buying my stuff in the morning at walmart to do this, and I hate the dunking and rolling part, or loosing a entire tub to a contam ,and I was just baffled at that many posts in a couple years was all lol
Edited by bakenast (07/21/15 05:32 PM)
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: Violet's V-Tek ??? [Re: bakenast]
#21976655 - 07/21/15 05:33 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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People who give a lot of advice and answer a lot of questions tend to rack up a lot of posts. My own post count is pretty high too.
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KauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: People who give a lot of advice and answer a lot of questions tend to rack up a lot of posts. My own post count is pretty high too.
P - Got my first pins on agar (started them today) based on your suggestions. Gonna also take some tissue from a big cluster in a few days and pit it on agar too. Hopefully, between those two, I'll get one really good performing clone culture.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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bakenast
Muffen Stuffer


Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 920
Last seen: 1 year, 25 days
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: People who give a lot of advice and answer a lot of questions tend to rack up a lot of posts. My own post count is pretty high too.
yes it is lol
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
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Re: Violet's V-Tek ??? [Re: bakenast]
#21977048 - 07/21/15 07:10 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
bakenast said:
Quote:
Pastywhyte said: People who give a lot of advice and answer a lot of questions tend to rack up a lot of posts. My own post count is pretty high too.
yes it is lol
Maybe you shouldn't insinuate that people who are pretty much exclusively here to help "have no life" just because you disagree with one of their opinions.
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Violet's V-Tek ??? [Re: Inocuole]
#21977313 - 07/21/15 08:07 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Without the negative connotations, I kindof half-agree. It's one thing when a person can show they're an incredibly grower, and pretty much a culture scientist and a bit of a tek artist like Pasty. It's something else when people do seem to just post and post and post and have very little else to show, not even great grows to credify the massive anounts of advice they may give. But this is coming from someone who believes in quality not quantity. I'm happy to keep my post count low, kinda on purpose.
Orca, I hope you show your results with these teks, and KEEP showing your improvements! There are starting to be a lot of people succeeding happily with the methods, but I wish more than just a few showed more of their stuff!
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
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Re: Violet's V-Tek ??? [Re: Violet]
#21977349 - 07/21/15 08:14 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Well bod can be abrasive just like any of us but I know his post count isn't that way because of mindless spamming either. Some of us like to talk about other stuff here too.
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KauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
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Re: Violet's V-Tek ??? [Re: Violet]
#21977641 - 07/21/15 09:10 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Violet said:
Orca, I hope you show your results with these teks, and KEEP showing your improvements! There are starting to be a lot of people succeeding happily with the methods, but I wish more than just a few showed more of their stuff!
V - I'm afraid my results will probably be nothing like the pictures I see here on this site. I'll be absolutely stoked to find a strain that fruits nice and consistently invitro with your technique, so that a few stealthy bottles every once in awhile keeps me happy! I can't even imagine what I would do with all the fruits I see growing in the monotub grow pics posted here. Another day or two and my first 4 quart PP5's will get their tops cracked opened as they're nearly 100% colonized. Got several multi spore small jars going on RGS for the culturing system so I'm 100% in! Haven't had much luck in last 4 months with a couple of grows that just yielded tiny fruits, but I've got one bag going now with a SA strain that is pushing up a bunch of big ones! Going to try the Grain LC method as well.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: Violet's V-Tek ??? [Re: KauaiOrca] 1
#21981089 - 07/22/15 05:07 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I will admit that my V-tek results are not as good as violets but I am getting better. I think my biggest problem other than consistently overfilling the containers is grain size. While RGS is far too expensive for me to contemplate using regular, the rye and wheat are just not cutting it, too much dead space in the container. My next try is going to be with straight millet. I plan to give it a go here soon.
My current V tek attempt was with a clone not well suited either so that might be an issue. It is far better suited to bulk.
Second flush

I am really finding invitro straw hydrated with a water flour suspension to be good, gonna run a bunch more here soon too! It is hands down the cheapest way to grow. About a nickel per container to do.

Does well invitro as well, this was a third flush. . .
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