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InvisibleViolet
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Re: Violet's V-Tek ??? [Re: blackout]
    #21964467 - 07/19/15 11:11 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Hmm, interesting about the gypsum.  I might should check out adding gypsum to agar for poms and stuff. Never thought about it, because I never saw much use in adding gypsum to my grain-only grows and abandoned it well before I started poms.  But maybe even that could take another look.

Apparently Bod doesn't care if he's shown wrong either, he ignores it and keeps going.
Or, if that was aimed at me, I wonder where it is you mean I "care" if "proven" wrong, or where I have been to begin with.
What I was getting at is that he will bug me and hound threads relevant to me about things he wouldn't bother you about. It's selective, to say the least. And using cutting verbiage like "stupidly" while trivializing what's actually very strong logic, while trying to sell the importance of skillsets regarding unnecessary steps.

I hope you're not saying te culture tek is "horrible" conditions? I'm not assumin you are, but anyways: IME & IMO the grain petris are far from horrible. They have plenty of GE considering no bulk subs, and small subs in small containment, and they retain constant humidity perfectly, with more than enough nutrition - a higher food density than a bulk/grain mix would have.


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Violet's V-Tek ??? [Re: Violet]
    #21964490 - 07/19/15 11:17 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

No I was saying an agar plate is horrible conditions. That's why I look for pins that can survive in them, usually means they do amazing in good conditions. As for the other comment, it was only in reference to myself.  I no longer compare people or methods. I try everything and I do what I do. I am no ones keeper. When I post its only in reference to what I know and what I do. At the same time I try to be open to all possibilities. That is the only way I can improve.

:sporedrop:


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InvisibleViolet
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Re: Violet's V-Tek ??? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #21964582 - 07/19/15 11:38 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Oh, yeah agar pinning is a pretty poor condition. Though a large container helps. And poms help a lot! With those things combined agar can be used for a good full-fruiting method. When/if I get back in full swing, I have a version of the culture tech for poms. They work great for that.


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Violet's V-Tek ??? [Re: Violet]
    #21964610 - 07/19/15 11:50 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

While I have been unsuccessful at finding the proper scrubbies, my invitro straw method has really exceeded every expectation. Going to be running some more soon, just need to pony up more cash for the damn containers. I love them but I hate the price tag.


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Offlineblackout
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Re: Violet's V-Tek ??? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #21964670 - 07/19/15 12:11 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
Well when I make gw agar there is gypsum in it from the soak. I do find gw agar pins quite easy so maybe that is the reason. Tests will need to be done.



Right, I was since reading your posts where you talked of straining the gypsum out.

I suppose instead of trying to get a pin from MS you could transfer the same culture to various different plates with varying amounts of gypsum to better compare how it pins. I have an old jar (burma) which is pinning up the sides at the moment, I might test with some of these. The myc has crawled up the side of the jar and the pins are about 2 or 3 inches from the base where the grains are. I also have a mutant one growing from the grains with a big blog attached to its cap.


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Violet's V-Tek ??? [Re: blackout]
    #21964680 - 07/19/15 12:14 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Agreed a stable culture would be needed to determine if it makes any difference at all. While I do strain the debris out, gypsum is soluble so I am sure that some remains regardless. I believe its solubility is greater at cool temps but that is easily worked around.


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Offlineblackout
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Re: Violet's V-Tek ??? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #21964805 - 07/19/15 12:47 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I was also interested in creating pins in harsh environments. Especially in getting one which would grow in colder conditions, i.e. my own room temp which is lower than most.

This is Stephen L Peele talking about a "polar" strain/variety he developed

Quote:

If you mean the Psilocybe cubensis "Polar" strain...
That is a strain I developed that lives under colder conditions. It was easy....just kept dropping temp.
and collecting spores from the mushrooms that fruited. The last one to fruit did so at 39 F. It is still a Psilocybe cubensis species and nothing else. Did that answer your question? slp/fmrc


...It took a little over a year. The trick was I started with some that were fruiting in the winter out in a pasture. They were already fruiting at around 62 F. Don't forget I'm here in Florida. That may have knocked off a lot of time. slp/fmrc





Peele also talked of pouring hot/warm agar onto contaminated plates, the myc then grows through it and bacteria is meant to stay behind, then you transfer growth from the top.

This layering of agar had me interested. You could do all sorts, have weak and strong layers, layers of totally different recipies, antibacterial layers, peroxide layers etc if you thought they might help. People usually minimise the amount of spores they transfer to plates. I wondered what would happen if you did the opposite. Imagine printing directly onto the base of a jar, maybe even mulitple prints on top of each other so there are shitloads of spores. The layers of antibacterial agar might help with the now increased contaminant load.

Now you pour a very thin layer of warm agar on top and let it set, it should drop in temp very quickly and so not kill the spores. Stick it in a fridge to cool even more. Now that it is cool you could pour more warm agar and the prints should be insulated from the heat. Now place it in a quite cool place, and cold loving strains should grow up through the agar, which could be inches thick. It will hopefully leave any contaminants behind. I am not sure if this would work any better than plates but I suspect it has a harder time growing up through agar and so only the most aggressive out of 1000's of strains might make it to the top, and it might take weeks to do so.


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Violet's V-Tek ??? [Re: blackout]
    #21964848 - 07/19/15 12:57 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Yes I have done warm pour and sandwich agar to escape contams myself. Interesting idea tho to use it to weed out the weak colonizers.


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InvisibleTheEaglesGift
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Re: Violet's V-Tek ??? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #21965654 - 07/19/15 02:59 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

I am not sure if this would work any better than plates but I suspect it has a harder time growing up through agar and so only the most aggressive out of 1000's of strains might make it to the top, and it might take weeks to do so.




Very interesting.


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OfflineMachiavelliavore
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Re: Violet's V-Tek ??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #21965750 - 07/19/15 03:15 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

Machiavelliavore said:
PE really likes a casing from what I've read, as does this tek.  Consider using one.




thanks for advice.  The way I'm approaching it is in 2 ways:

1) Using RGS and no casing for complete invitro growing to get the cleanest pins/clones and find a great culture.  This keeps the growing chamber (PP5 Quart jar) as contam free as possible.  Also,with the smaller PP5's, it can be used to generate really clean LI by just adding water to the colonized grain and sucking it back out.
2) Once some good cultures come from #1, then moving to WBR and casing to get the better fruits as the primary way of growing them out.

Just hoping to find one great culture that really likes this growing method.  I love how easy it can be, but I'm so early in the process I have no results to celebrate yet.




Much like I tried to do when I started out, you're trying to do everything at once so you're in the best position months in the future, which is probably why you're starting with PE and culturing instead of multispore cambo or whatever.

Since PE is supposedly a picky fruiter even on coir bulk, which has some of the properties of a casing, it seems to me that casing it on straight rgs would be good for production.  Since your invitro quarts use a whole cup, dedicating bunches at this early stage to just culturing without a casing and removing your best pins (?on a strain that produces few large dense fruits?) might gimp your harvest a bit.

Learning how to properly prepare and apply a casing is also a valuable thing to start learning right away.

For just culturing and printing, 1/8cup rgs in a 1 pint plastic screwtop uncased invitro might be preferable (as discussed in violets culturing tek.)

I mean, I'm assuming you like eating mushrooms :smile:

People that grow PE should definitely be regarded more than me in this matter.  Maybe it will fruit just fine off invitro grass seed, idk.

It's possible to outsmart yourself by trying to do everything at once.  I did this by doing some imediate isolation, didn't notice bits of non-sporulating trich growing in my grain master, and ruined a whole spawn run.  The isolates were all also garbage.  It caused a cascade of failures set into motion months ago that is only now resolving, just cause I didn't want to slum it with "multispore garbage." Not to imply that will happen to you, just a cautionary tale.


--------------------


I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister.  I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave.  I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent.
Triggered yet?

Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."


No, this does not look right...


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InvisibleViolet
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Re: Violet's V-Tek ??? [Re: Machiavelliavore]
    #21965994 - 07/19/15 04:01 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I've had PE pin excellently from straight RGS.  It side-pinned badly when not invitro, however - just another mark chalked up to needing casing on grains for open fruiting, even RGS which doesn't need it invitro.


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts


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OfflineMachiavelliavore
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Re: Violet's V-Tek ??? [Re: Violet]
    #21966185 - 07/19/15 04:52 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

^  Well, if there's one person who knows about fruiting PE on grass seed invitro, it's her.

My experience of invitro fruiting uncased (even with GS) has been Sidepin City.  I have just used mason lids with a nail hole in them.


--------------------


I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister.  I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave.  I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent.
Triggered yet?

Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."


No, this does not look right...


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: Violet's V-Tek ??? [Re: Violet]
    #21966199 - 07/19/15 04:56 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Violet, isn't it some kind of social experiment of yours to see how many people use male or female pronouns to refer to you?  I feel like I recall hearing that from you at one point.


--------------------
                            :rainbowdrink: Tea doesn't work?                            AMU  (Q & A)                  Grain prep for Intergalactic Space Oats :pes:     

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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Violet's V-Tek ??? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #21966337 - 07/19/15 05:37 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
I didn't see you were doing it just to find clones. I'm not familiar with the method so I won't really say anything more other than there is no reason it can't work.




Pasty or Violet or Bodhi - I need some advice … so I've finally got some pins showing up on some invitro bags I'm doing … Tried a few strains, all done the same way LC > grains > Coir/Verm/Coffee/Gypsum back into bags  … now one bag has a lot of great pins growing some real big clusters right on top.  So …

In order to clone with the highest likelihood of success, should I take a small pin from the best cluster or should I let it grow out until they're bigger to determine which one to take a clone from?  And then, I put it on Agar, let it grow out, transfer until clean, make another clean LC and test it out?  I'm just looking for the best, highest probability most efficient way to get a good clone going.  The pin clusters in this one bag really look fantastic but I don't know if I should take a pin now or let them grow out then take some tissue from a bigger mushroom??????


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Violet's V-Tek ??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #21966346 - 07/19/15 05:40 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Its really up to you and how you prefer to grow. I like to let the clusters grow just a little to give me an idea how even the fruits in them appear. . . some people prefer tiny pins. If the fruit/cluster is a bit more mature (not full blown dropping spores tho) then do a biopsy, for really small pins just drop em onto agar and isolate away from the contams.


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Violet's V-Tek ??? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #21966381 - 07/19/15 05:46 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
Its really up to you and how you prefer to grow. I like to let the clusters grow just a little to give me an idea how even the fruits in them appear. . . some people prefer tiny pins. If the fruit/cluster is a bit more mature (not full blown dropping spores tho) then do a biopsy, for really small pins just drop em onto agar and isolate away from the contams.




Since I'm new to agar, I think I'll try both as I don't really have much to lose and we'll see what happens.  It's fun to finally have some fruits to work with to find that magic clone culture everyone talks about.  This one seems to be fruiting fast as the WBS colonized fully in 8 days, then I broke it all  up and mixed it with Coir/Verm/coffee/Gypsum then put back in a bag it re-colonized and 18 days (total from breaking up WBS and mixing with substrate) later I'm getting pins.  Would you call that a pretty fast growing strain?


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


Edited by KauaiOrca (07/19/15 05:59 PM)


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Violet's V-Tek ??? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #21969600 - 07/20/15 07:47 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
I prefer to clone my clones from something more similar to the conditions Im planning on growing in. An in vitro pinning on straight rgs or grain clone isn't the same as a clone from how you plan on doing your real grows. There's [gradient:#D4C7C7,#]no reason to be so stupidly concerned[/gradient] with how clean your clone is. If you cant clone without having to do it all in vitro then don't bother just get better at sterile techniques




I have no doubt you know 10x (maybe 100x) more than I do about every topic related to growing and I appreciate  your interest and time to reply.  I just wonder why you put it across in such an aggressive and caustic manner?  There's really no reason to fight about this stuff, is there?  Violet has a system that keeps all her culturing stuff very clean from contams which seems to me to be really good sterile technique that PREVENTS contams in the first place.  She seems to suggest that good performing clones in her system perform well no matter what growing system she uses later. 

I feel like I'm so inexperienced I have no credibility at all to doubt anyone's advice as all three of you have great ideas and appreciate the help.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: Violet's V-Tek ??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #21969645 - 07/20/15 08:02 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

If you never deal with contams then how can you know your sterile technique is any good?  There is a way to achieve good results even with dirty samples and never learning to do that cheats the grower in the end, which is probably why bod's so passionate about it, since I'm sure like many, it just irrationally pisses him off to see people do things inefficiently and worry about the wrong sets of variables.

I can't speak for him of course, but if I had to wager a guess.... that would be it.


--------------------
                            :rainbowdrink: Tea doesn't work?                            AMU  (Q & A)                  Grain prep for Intergalactic Space Oats :pes:     

Coir-ca-cola
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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Violet's V-Tek ??? [Re: Inocuole]
    #21969654 - 07/20/15 08:04 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

That and attitude. I get along with 99% of people here just fine. Some people not so much because of how they act, also what they say, and the misleading nature of saying things that are to grab noob attention. That's why I'm done with V just on ignore for the rest of ever. She has some smart ideas but the box it comes in... Not worth it.


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Violet's V-Tek ??? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #21969688 - 07/20/15 08:18 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
That and attitude. I get along with 99% of people here just fine. Some people not so much because of how they act, also what they say, and the misleading nature of saying things that are to grab noob attention. That's why I'm done with V just on ignore for the rest of ever. She has some smart ideas but the box it comes in... Not worth it.




Like i said, I appreciate your interest and Ideas and I'm learning a lot.  Making huge progress last few months.  Trying a few things … getting into agar steps and am searching for the elusive great clone culture that seems to be a big part of the formula of consistently performing grows.  Since I have no interest in ever doing big mono tub grows, Violet's invitro culturing grows and Muda's bottle tek's are exactly what I was looking for.  Although I haven't generated fantastic results with them (too early in the process right now) I'm working on it and appreciate all the good suggestions and ideas.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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