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KauaiOrca
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Registered: 08/12/08
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Re: Violet's V-Tek ??? [Re: Violet] 1
#21933954 - 07/12/15 03:22 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Violet said: I like all of the methods, and get results exactly like what's described in the threads!  
So, Violet, after reading through a bunch of your write-ups it seems you have gotten the best yields in the invitro PP5 quart jars with brown rice grains (not PF cakes) and a casing layer, right? I'm not talking about culturing, but growing out once you've got a good clone/culture?
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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KauaiOrca
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Re: Violet's V-Tek ??? [Re: Violet]
#21946217 - 07/15/15 08:00 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Violet said: I like all of the methods, and get results exactly like what's described in the threads!  
Violet, have you ever tried fruiting sclerotia (galindoi) invitro in the bottles after you harvested stones?
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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Grey
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Re: Violet's V-Tek ??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#21946476 - 07/15/15 09:11 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I did Galindoi recently. It colonized and just sat there forming stones for two months. I loosened the lid and waited a couple more weeks before casing it. It consumed the casing and didn't do anything. It ended up triching out the other day at the three month Mark.
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AMU Q&A If you don't have a plan of your own, you'll become a part of somebody else's.
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
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Re: Violet's V-Tek ??? [Re: Grey]
#21961961 - 07/18/15 07:23 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I think Galindoi, perhaps other truffle species too, may do best made to fruit ASAP after colonization. I mean that particularly to a tek like this, but it may even be best that way in general. I had meant to try fruiting Galindoi in regular containers as per the normal tek both with stones as well as freshly colonized, to see if they'd still perform as well after so long forming stones. Idunno. But for the invitro tek, I suspect that chances are a lot better if you case and fruit right at full colonization. And don't be afraid to crack that lid extra loose!
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
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MagicInMichigan
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Re: Violet's V-Tek ??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#21962077 - 07/18/15 07:47 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
KauaiOrca said:
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Machiavelliavore said: I have no doubt that bottomwatering works. IMO grain subs are also easier to prepare then PF subs. Grass seed may not have significantly higher yield potential for the same volume because it's light. Also, if violate's postulate that cubes like to pin off low nutrition areas is correct, a cased grain with have a much better chance of only pinning off the casing than a PF sub invitro. IMO it would be worthwhile using a casing in invitro to get a better pinning surface, even though strictly speaking it isn't necessary. That also opens you up to using any grain you want with greater success.
I honestly think this tek is so controversial mostly because it goes against male thinking. i.e. Want a bunch of mushrooms? Well, we start with a dump truck of coir and a cement mixer full of spawn, then pour them together in a swimming pool. Take a container that wouldn't hold your lunch, then fill it half full of grass seed and water it like a flowaaaaa, and you should let it grow doesn't really sound as intuitively compelling.
Having gotten 4.5oz/cup off multispore grass seed, (nearly what she says you can get off grass seed,) so I think it's quite compelling that an ideal culture in an ideal FC on rice or wbs could hit 7.5oz, given the density difference. If 4 containers in my greenhouse to be would take up about 2/3 of the space of one of my foil pans, use no coir, require only the same preparation as a spawn grain, use 1/4 the quantity of casing, and produce equal quantities of better fruits, I find it hard to argue against that. They are a bit higher maintainence though.
I've had both hollow and dense fruits come off coir, but these v-tek fruits didn't give when squeezed at all, and their colouration indicated that that might be, ahm, very flavourful Seemed a bit more cap happy with a thinner stem than coir fruits.
Thanks! Super helpful post. I'm going to try it!
^^do it! Tried cakes at first when I started and violet's V-Tek got me more flushes, bigger fruits, and less contams. The tek is easy to follow for a newer grower like myself. I used WBS instead of grass and just watered a bit more for the same results. It was amazing how simple it made growing after I had freaked out and gotten over involved with cakes o the point of fucking them up almost. I 100% recommend it.
Violet, your tek has been super helpful for me and has allowed me to get individual clones for genetics easily. I produced my biggest fruit ever off of WBS with your tek, nothing giant giant, but a 6g dry fruit made me super happy. For the lack of effort I put in the results were great, fruitng coincided with the beginning of my last year of grad school so time was and issue, but apparently not with your tek. I did 2liters on top of them for individual chambers and all four containers went 3 flushes at least with 2 going 5.
Great tek in this noobs opinion!
-MIM
-------------------- “the only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars.” I surround myself with people who aren't afraid to live. They have had what they love most taken from them, be it freedom, love, money, or anything for that matter. When you lose your greatest love you also lose your greatest fear, when that happens you are completely and utterly free.
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Machiavelliavore
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^With WBS, I think there's less volume available between the grains, meaning less mycellium at full colonization.
This, I believe, means that the WBS sub has less water capacity than other subs, and thus it's more critical to hit your bottom-watering timings correctly, since there is less buffer capacity to compensate for human error. I suspect this is where the conventional wisdom of "don't use WBS as a cased grain" comes from. Without the mid flush watering it will just deplete too quickly.
That said, it really doesn't seem like it's hard to get it right, even with WBS. Once you've grown a bit and have a sense of when the pins expand massively in volume, you just pre-empt that. I like to picture the mushrooms growing up being made of pure water.
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I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister. I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave. I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent. Triggered yet? Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."
No, this does not look right...
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MagicInMichigan
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Registered: 07/07/15
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Quote:
Machiavelliavore said: ^With WBS, I think there's less volume available between the grains, meaning less mycellium at full colonization.
This, I believe, means that the WBS sub has less water capacity than other subs, and thus it's more critical to hit your bottom-watering timings correctly, since there is less buffer capacity to compensate for human error. I suspect this is where the conventional wisdom of "don't use WBS as a cased grain" comes from. Without the mid flush watering it will just deplete too quickly.
That said, it really doesn't seem like it's hard to get it right, even with WBS. Once you've grown a bit and have a sense of when the pins expand massively in volume, you just pre-empt that. I like to picture the mushrooms growing up being made of pure water.
Exactly. WBS wasn't ideal, but with a little extra watering it worked out fine. I'm planning on trying it with grass seed here for my next grow once my agar isolates are ready. If grass seed hold moisture better and makes it easier than it already does with WBS, then damn I don't think I'll have one bad thing to say about her tek, except maybe that its too easy and every lazy high on(LIKE ME! LOL.) would grow their own mushrooms so I'd stop being able to trade for all my other psychedelic needs. My main fear is my DMT friend doing this and eliminating my free supply. 
-MIM
-------------------- “the only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars.” I surround myself with people who aren't afraid to live. They have had what they love most taken from them, be it freedom, love, money, or anything for that matter. When you lose your greatest love you also lose your greatest fear, when that happens you are completely and utterly free.
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Machiavelliavore
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Registered: 12/08/14
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Whole brown rice has been a joy to work with and prep. The cool thing about WBR over WBS or GS is that it dries out almost imediately.
Most of the water strains off within a few minutes, and the rest evaporates within 15, especailly if you spread it out. It is extremely easy to burst. I prefer 10 minutes of attention to prevent bursting rather than leaving drying grains out for hours.
It's often like 70c/lbs at bargain markets and dollstore in small convenient packaging.
1 lbs of WBR dumped into 9qt boiling water and returned to a boil starts to burst in about 8 minutes for me. For a 2qt saucepan 1 lbs prep, violets 2-day short boil prep nailed the hydration. It seems her prep doesn't account for changing heat diffusion in different quantities of water, and is more accurate for small <4qt quantities IME. A large stock pot will stay near boiling temps for quite some time. Be curious what she has to say.
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I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister. I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave. I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent. Triggered yet? Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."
No, this does not look right...
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KauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
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inoculated my first 4 V-tek quart jars of RGS with PE about 3 days ago and growth is solid. Looking forward to really seeing this grow completely invitro. Want to get some good pins/clones to find one of the super productive cultures.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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Machiavelliavore
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Re: Violet's V-Tek ??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#21963128 - 07/19/15 12:30 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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PE really likes a casing from what I've read, as does this tek. Consider using one.
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I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister. I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave. I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent. Triggered yet? Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."
No, this does not look right...
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KauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
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Quote:
Machiavelliavore said: PE really likes a casing from what I've read, as does this tek. Consider using one.
thanks for advice. The way I'm approaching it is in 2 ways:
1) Using RGS and no casing for complete invitro growing to get the cleanest pins/clones and find a great culture. This keeps the growing chamber (PP5 Quart jar) as contam free as possible. Also,with the smaller PP5's, it can be used to generate really clean LI by just adding water to the colonized grain and sucking it back out. 2) Once some good cultures come from #1, then moving to WBR and casing to get the better fruits as the primary way of growing them out.
Just hoping to find one great culture that really likes this growing method. I love how easy it can be, but I'm so early in the process I have no results to celebrate yet.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
Edited by KauaiOrca (07/19/15 06:44 AM)
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Pastywhyte
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Re: Violet's V-Tek ??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#21963959 - 07/19/15 09:28 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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You need to case grains, even if the microclimate at the surface was perfect a casing would still be needed to provide a decent pinning surface. While I won't say its impossible for them to pin from grain, a casing really helps.
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KauaiOrca
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: You need to case grains, even if the microclimate at the surface was perfect a casing would still be needed to provide a decent pinning surface. While I won't say its impossible for them to pin from grain, a casing really helps.
P - What do you think of Violet's invitro CULTURING technique with RGS and no casing? I guess the point is to keep the invitro jars clean while culturing/finding a good clone then switch to WBR + casing when you want bigger yields?
Do you think that's a good strategy?
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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bodhisatta 
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Re: Violet's V-Tek ??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#21963988 - 07/19/15 09:36 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I prefer to clone my clones from something more similar to the conditions Im planning on growing in. An in vitro pinning on straight rgs or grain clone isn't the same as a clone from how you plan on doing your real grows. There's no reason to be so stupidly concerned with how clean your clone is. If you cant clone without having to do it all in vitro then don't bother just get better at sterile techniques
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Pastywhyte
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Re: Violet's V-Tek ??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#21964031 - 07/19/15 09:51 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I didn't see you were doing it just to find clones. I'm not familiar with the method so I won't really say anything more other than there is no reason it can't work.
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
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Pasty, invitro grass seed pins excellently right from the grain! It's the only one I've seen do so, and I'm pretty sure it's due to the small size and quick consumption of the grain, especially considering how little nutrition-per-myc there is. But it def has to be invitro, or the surface dries out, akin to what you said.
Bod, the reasons to be "so stupidly concerned" with taking clones sterile in this fashion are 1) you can take PINS, young and healthy with little maturity and ready to grow back out nearly instantly as thick healthy running myc, and 2) you can take a dozen clones with the ultimate ease of a tweezer in minutes, with 100% clean success pretty much guaranteed.
It eliminates the tedium of cloning and increases the success, eleminating the necessity for skills that only exist to deal with work-hard-not-smart methodology.
Besides, I have never seen a clone taken with my culture method perform any less spectacularly in any grow method it's applied to.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
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Pastywhyte
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Re: Violet's V-Tek ??? [Re: Violet]
#21964132 - 07/19/15 10:11 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I usually just make my agar a little richer and it almost always pins from ms. 90% of the clones that I have kept long term came from pins off my agar. Then I transfer to a slant and a plate. The plate is used to test the genetics, the slant is kept based on the outcome. Its not hard but I guess it does neccessitate having access to test tubes.
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
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I wonder if Bod hounds your related posts about not taking Your clones in conditions like the intended final grow. My bet is no.
That is a good way too. What I like about mine is that it is indeed a normal fruiting substrate. IME pins aren't as likely to indicate their full-fruit potential on agar. My agar pins are mostly numerous but tiny with a high "abort" rate - as in, staying large knots or small pins, even from cultures with medium or larger fruits. I think it has a bit more indication of what type of genes are being selected - clusters, potential size, speed on fruiting sub, that sort of things. But your way hits some of the important parts of mine, too, i.e. minimal expansion.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
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blackout


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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: I usually just make my agar a little richer and it almost always pins from ms.
Have you ever used gypsum in your agar? I was reading an old RR post and I think he was saying gypsum in agar caused more pins.
-found it
Quote:
RogerRabbit said: I just use the agar from fungi.com but mix it up a bit weaker than called for in the recipe. I also add a pinch or two of gypsum to the litre of agar, and this seems to help fruiting. A bit of gypsum in jars helps invitro fruits to form also by the way. My experience with mexicana is it's all about strain isolation. Some substrains just won't make sclerotia, and others won't fruit. By growing out on agar you can find the best substrains. The chunk of sclerotia below was sliced into three pieces and each one was transferred to a new dish. These were grown out and transferred to grains as the fruiting strain. The best sclerotia producers were likewise selected and grown out on rye grain, which in my experience is superior to rye grass seed for sclerotia production. RR
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Pastywhyte
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Re: Violet's V-Tek ??? [Re: blackout]
#21964445 - 07/19/15 11:05 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
blackout said:
Quote:
Pastywhyte said: I usually just make my agar a little richer and it almost always pins from ms.
Have you ever used gypsum in your agar? I was reading an old RR post and I think he was saying gypsum in agar caused more pins.
Well when I make gw agar there is gypsum in it from the soak. I do find gw agar pins quite easy so maybe that is the reason. Tests will need to be done.
Violet, bodhi and I do not agree on all things and have had debates many times. I think the difference is that for me I don't care if I am proven wrong, I see it as a learning experience. My opinion is that cultures that can pin in horrible conditions with nearly no food and no FAE are gonna be aggressive no matter where they end up. Most of the time in practice that bears out. If anyone has solid evidence to the contrary i will consider it
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