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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: There's still no proof we come from fishers, reptiles or w.e [Re: Turtletotem]
    #21923526 - 07/10/15 08:08 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Yea, I am judging a group of people based on their chosen philosophy and values.

You seem to be more of an apologist.  Ill pass.  I reserve my right to judge people based on their thoughts and actions.


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Offlinetwighead
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Registered: 08/27/08
Posts: 29,560
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Re: There's still no proof we come from fishers, reptiles or w.e [Re: Confucian]
    #21923533 - 07/10/15 08:10 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Confucian said:
Just a couple things to note regarding early human evolution.

1) Early primitive bipedal (standing upright) half-ape / half-human creatures show up in the fossil record 4 to 5 million years ago.

2) There are dozens of species of early humans (H. Habilis, H. Erectus, H. Ergaster, H. Georgicus, H. Pekinensis, H. Heidelbergensis, H. Sapiens, H. Rudolfensis, etc.)

3) You will only find early humans (500,000 years old or older) in Africa.

4) You will never find a 500,000 or 1,000,000 year old early human in the Americas or Australia as we evolved from Africa and it took 100s of thousands of years to conquer the globe.

5) Looking at fossil record, you can track the movements, they slowly (over millions of years) spread into Europe and Asia, they finally get to America barely 15,000 or so years ago.

6) As the species change over time their brain sizes slowly get larger.

7) You can find evidence of primitive fire use (all over Africa) starting about 1 million years ago, as we started to cook meat and increase our brain size.

8) There are absolutely positively zero archaic human fossils found in America. You won't even find a Neandrathral fossil! Homo Sapiens were the only ones that made it here (less than 20,000 years ago).

Meet one of your ancestors, of the species Homo Erectus, from which you descend:





Is that a selfie?


--------------------
¿Check out some art m8?



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OfflineTurtletotem
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Registered: 09/02/13
Posts: 3,763
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Re: There's still no proof we come from fishers, reptiles or w.e [Re: DieCommie]
    #21923536 - 07/10/15 08:11 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Yea, I am judging a group of people based on their chosen philosophy and values.

You seem to be more of an apologist.  Ill pass.  I reserve my right to judge people based on their thoughts and actions.




You are judging people based on their philosophy, values and culture without taking the individual in account. You are just as bad as the extremists.

When you abstract a whole group of people away like that, you dehumanize them. This is exactly how groups like the KKK and Taliban operate.

And calling me an apologist... for shame. You don't even know me or what kind of believes I hold.


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: There's still no proof we come from fishers, reptiles or w.e [Re: Turtletotem]
    #21923554 - 07/10/15 08:17 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

You are judging people based on their philosophy, values and culture without taking the individual in account.




How can I possibly do one without the other?

Shame on you for comparing me to the KKK.  That is a ridiculous knee-jerk accusation of one of the most terrible things one can be accused of in our country.  I judge people based on the content of their character, not the color of their skin.

Judging people based on their choices and beliefs does not make me like the KKK.


edit - and of course the irony is that you are casting dispersion on whole groups (KKK and Taliban) based on their collective values, phiolophies and chosen beliefs without taking the individual into account.  You are an apologist and a hypocrite.


Edited by DieCommie (07/10/15 08:19 AM)


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
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Re: There's still no proof we come from fishers, reptiles or w.e [Re: Moonlightblue]
    #21923564 - 07/10/15 08:18 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Moonlightblue said:


There's animals that adapt, but
No signs/or proof in changing to human beings.





there's no proof that extra terrestrials were not at the first thanksgiving either


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OfflineTurtletotem
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Re: There's still no proof we come from fishers, reptiles or w.e [Re: DieCommie]
    #21923566 - 07/10/15 08:19 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

No you don't, you don't judge people based on the content of their character. You said so yourself.


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InvisibleVoid_Hawk
e^(i*pi)+1 = 0
Registered: 04/15/15
Posts: 200
Loc: Sol 3
Re: There's still no proof we come from fishers, reptiles or w.e [Re: Turtletotem] * 1
    #21923567 - 07/10/15 08:19 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Politics doesn't help. Evolution, abortion, gay rights/same-sex marriage are wedge issues. For decades now they have been used to consolidate and inflame the base, ever since the unholy matrimony between the GOP and the religious right (remember Falwell's "Moral Majority"?)

These people have been told for so long to get mad at science, ivory tower libs, and gays for "ruining America" that they have great zeal to push back. The result are things like terrible textbooks, the recent scuttling of a bipartisan bill to authorize study of medical cannabis, anything to do with birth control being off the table even though it demonstrably reduces unwanted pregnancies and abortions, and so on.

The idea of teaching science in science class send them over the edge. Thus we get attempts to "teach the controversy" that isn't, to insert religion/mythology into science curricula. I would argue, this IS harm.

So we get cries of religious intolerance when tjey don't get their way; the white Christian now claims to be the biggest victim in the history of the US. Closer to the truth is that these folks seek to insert the Bible into the realm of secular law, and shove their beliefs down others' throats - all while claiming to revere the Constitution, without a hint of irony, but the abject hypocrisy shines through.


Edited by Void_Hawk (07/10/15 08:45 AM)


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Posts: 193,665
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Re: There's still no proof we come from fishers, reptiles or w.e [Re: Turtletotem]
    #21923576 - 07/10/15 08:21 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Turtletotem said:
Quote:

DieCommie said:
Yea, I am judging a group of people based on their chosen philosophy and values.

You seem to be more of an apologist.  Ill pass.  I reserve my right to judge people based on their thoughts and actions.




You are judging people based on their philosophy, values and culture without taking the individual in account. You are just as bad as the extremists.

When you abstract a whole group of people away like that, you dehumanize them. This is exactly how groups like the KKK and Taliban operate.






it's also how atheists and anti-racists and feminists operate

seems a lot of groups need to be eradicated for the betterment of mankind


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
Re: There's still no proof we come from fishers, reptiles or w.e [Re: Confucian]
    #21923578 - 07/10/15 08:22 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Confucian said:
Just a couple things to note regarding early human evolution.

1) Early primitive bipedal (standing upright) half-ape / half-human creatures show up in the fossil record 4 to 5 million years ago.

2) There are dozens of species of early humans (H. Habilis, H. Erectus, H. Ergaster, H. Georgicus, H. Pekinensis, H. Heidelbergensis, H. Sapiens, H. Rudolfensis, etc.)

3) You will only find early humans (500,000 years old or older) in Africa.

4) You will never find a 500,000 or 1,000,000 year old early human in the Americas or Australia as we evolved from Africa and it took 100s of thousands of years to conquer the globe.

5) Looking at fossil record, you can track the movements, they slowly (over millions of years) spread into Europe and Asia, they finally get to America barely 15,000 or so years ago.

6) As the species change over time their brain sizes slowly get larger.

7) You can find evidence of primitive fire use (all over Africa) starting about 1 million years ago, as we started to cook meat and increase our brain size.

8) There are absolutely positively zero archaic human fossils found in America. You won't even find a Neandrathral fossil! Homo Sapiens were the only ones that made it here (less than 20,000 years ago).

Meet one of your ancestors, of the species Homo Erectus, from which you descend:






There is absolutely no doubt whatsoever that apes and various species of early man are clear linked in the fossil record. None. Zero. Nada. Zippo.

What is not clear at all is HOW the most modern species of man (certainly not aborigines) made a HUGE leap of progress in a tiny timeframe that no other species was capable of.  There were no species of animals that also developed large brains (relative to their body size) with the exception of whales/dolphins and took the route of development of technology anywhere near what humans did. 

The question I have is was there some kind of intervention to accelerate the development of the human species or is it all just random, chaotic, natural selection?  Are we really truly sure that humans are the most advanced species that are interacting with our planet?  Perhaps the most advanced species don't leave a lot of garbage and bones around to be discovered in the soil.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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OfflineTurtletotem
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Registered: 09/02/13
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Re: There's still no proof we come from fishers, reptiles or w.e [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #21923591 - 07/10/15 08:27 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

What do you mean by aboriginees? They are as modern as we are, or is that what you meant?

Yes, the great leap forward is still a big mystery, and that makes it so damn interesting!

My guess is that at one point in time a critical treshold was reached, our brainpower and language had advanced to a certain tipping point, and when the climate became more favorable, all this pent up potential came bursting forth.

But I am not a scientist, this is just something I suspect.


--------------------


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Onlineqman
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Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 2 minutes, 11 seconds
Re: There's still no proof we come from fishers, reptiles or w.e [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #21923597 - 07/10/15 08:30 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

actually
Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

Confucian said:
Just a couple things to note regarding early human evolution.

1) Early primitive bipedal (standing upright) half-ape / half-human creatures show up in the fossil record 4 to 5 million years ago.

2) There are dozens of species of early humans (H. Habilis, H. Erectus, H. Ergaster, H. Georgicus, H. Pekinensis, H. Heidelbergensis, H. Sapiens, H. Rudolfensis, etc.)

3) You will only find early humans (500,000 years old or older) in Africa.

4) You will never find a 500,000 or 1,000,000 year old early human in the Americas or Australia as we evolved from Africa and it took 100s of thousands of years to conquer the globe.

5) Looking at fossil record, you can track the movements, they slowly (over millions of years) spread into Europe and Asia, they finally get to America barely 15,000 or so years ago.

6) As the species change over time their brain sizes slowly get larger.

7) You can find evidence of primitive fire use (all over Africa) starting about 1 million years ago, as we started to cook meat and increase our brain size.

8) There are absolutely positively zero archaic human fossils found in America. You won't even find a Neandrathral fossil! Homo Sapiens were the only ones that made it here (less than 20,000 years ago).

Meet one of your ancestors, of the species Homo Erectus, from which you descend:






There is absolutely no doubt whatsoever that apes and various species of early man are clear linked in the fossil record. None. Zero. Nada. Zippo.

What is not clear at all is HOW the most modern species of man (certainly not aborigines) made a HUGE leap of progress in a tiny timeframe that no other species was capable of.  There were no species of animals that also developed large brains (relative to their body size) with the exception of whales/dolphins and took the route of development of technology anywhere near what humans did. 

The question I have is was there some kind of intervention to accelerate the development of the human species or is it all just random, chaotic, natural selection?  Are we really truly sure that humans are the most advanced species that are interacting with our planet?  Perhaps the most advanced species don't leave a lot of garbage and bones around to be discovered in the soil.




If we look at how humans lived 50,000 years ago, I don't think you would call them so advanced.

"intervention to accelerate the development of the human species"

No, it's called nature.


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OfflineReposadoXochipilli
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Registered: 08/30/05
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Re: There's still no proof we come from fishers, reptiles or w.e [Re: qman]
    #21923605 - 07/10/15 08:34 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Op my dad still trout fishes and so did my grandfather, so yea I came from fishers bro, come at me


--------------------


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
Re: There's still no proof we come from fishers, reptiles or w.e [Re: Turtletotem]
    #21923609 - 07/10/15 08:35 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Turtletotem said:

My guess is that at one point in time a critical treshold was reached, our brainpower and language had advanced to a certain tipping point, and when the climate became more favorable, all this pent up potential came bursting forth.

But I am not a scientist, this is just something I suspect.




This is most definitely the shared opinion of most of the scientific community.  It makes no sense to me at all, but I respect their opinions. 

Nature shows us that species evolution and improvement is extremely slow … in virtually every case.  Yet, we have a case where within a few thousand years, a single species moves from a very simple animal like existence of hunting and gathering and living in caves to constructing cities, enormous pyramids and utilizing amazing improvements in technology.  There is now increasing proof that some of the structures built in Peru were built BEFORE the currently understood timeline of when man first emerged in the Americas.

There's a lot more to the story, is all I'm saying.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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InvisibleSirShroomsAlott
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I'm a teapot


Registered: 05/15/14
Posts: 6,945
Loc: United States Flag
Re: There's still no proof we come from fishers, reptiles or w.e [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #21923622 - 07/10/15 08:39 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I've always thought the development of language is what helped our evolutionary advancement.

The ability to communicate effectively improved how fast we advanced tremendously.

No proof of that though.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
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Re: There's still no proof we come from fishers, reptiles or w.e [Re: Confucian]
    #21923627 - 07/10/15 08:41 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Confucian said:
Just a couple things to note regarding early human evolution.

1) Early primitive bipedal (standing upright) half-ape / half-human creatures show up in the fossil record 4 to 5 million years ago.

2) There are dozens of species of early humans (H. Habilis, H. Erectus, H. Ergaster, H. Georgicus, H. Pekinensis, H. Heidelbergensis, H. Sapiens, H. Rudolfensis, etc.)

3) You will only find early humans (500,000 years old or older) in Africa.

4) You will never find a 500,000 or 1,000,000 year old early human in the Americas or Australia as we evolved from Africa and it took 100s of thousands of years to conquer the globe.

5) Looking at fossil record, you can track the movements, they slowly (over millions of years) spread into Europe and Asia, they finally get to America barely 15,000 or so years ago.

6) As the species change over time their brain sizes slowly get larger.

7) You can find evidence of primitive fire use (all over Africa) starting about 1 million years ago, as we started to cook meat and increase our brain size.

8) There are absolutely positively zero archaic human fossils found in America. You won't even find a Neandrathral fossil! Homo Sapiens were the only ones that made it here (less than 20,000 years ago).

Meet one of your ancestors, of the species Homo Erectus, from which you descend:







an absence of evidence isnt evidence of absence

radio carbon dating places man at the Topper excavation site at around 50,000
years ago at the earliest and 22,900 years ago at the latest. archeology is a
fairly new field and since we havent been digging up the country to look for
bones and other artifacts we cannot guarantee a time where man or pre-man has
arrived on this continent or any other, all we can do is base our hypothesis on
what's been uncovered to date

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topper_Site


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: There's still no proof we come from fishers, reptiles or w.e [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #21923638 - 07/10/15 08:44 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

we cannot guarantee a time where man or pre-man has
arrived on this continent or any other, all we can do is base our hypothesis on
what's been uncovered to date




That is always the case for every conclusion reached by science though.  Pointing it out in a discussion like this suggests that this is some kind of unique weakness - its not.  All scientific conclusions are tentative with respect to new evidence.


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
Re: There's still no proof we come from fishers, reptiles or w.e [Re: qman]
    #21923645 - 07/10/15 08:49 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:

"intervention to accelerate the development of the human species"

No, it's called nature.




I find it absolutely laughable when people have such intense certainty that they are 100% certain how humans came to be and how our development occurred.  We are barely out of the crib in terms of our understanding of our earth, let alone our universe and the incredible mysteries of DNA.  There is a lot of evidence that is very credible that something has happened to mankind in the last 50,000 years that accelerated our development in a way that has no precedent at all in nature.  There are structures that have been built by primitive man that simply defy any logical description at all of how it was done.  There are myths on this planet from virtually every single nook and cranny that describes elaborate relationships with very advanced beings. 

Science is making great progress.  They have still not solved even the most basic problem of how life starts from "lifeless matter" yet countless billions have been spent trying to replicate and prove this process.  Moving from chemical reactions to life that wants to survive, replicates, thinks, seeks out resources, evolves, etc is one HUGE leap and we can't prove it's even possible, yet you've got it all figured out how humans made a leap that we can't find anywhere else in nature … LMAO.

There are many mysteries we are truly clueless about.  I suspect the real  history of modern man is one of them.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: There's still no proof we come from fishers, reptiles or w.e [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #21923671 - 07/10/15 08:58 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah but what about the missing link between the link between the link between the link?


--------------------


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Onlineqman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 2 minutes, 11 seconds
Re: There's still no proof we come from fishers, reptiles or w.e [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #21923692 - 07/10/15 09:06 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

qman said:

"intervention to accelerate the development of the human species"

No, it's called nature.




I find it absolutely laughable when people have such intense certainty that they are 100% certain how humans came to be and how our development occurred.  We are barely out of the crib in terms of our understanding of our earth, let alone our universe and the incredible mysteries of DNA.  There is a lot of evidence that is very credible that something has happened to mankind in the last 50,000 years that accelerated our development in a way that has no precedent at all in nature.  There are structures that have been built by primitive man that simply defy any logical description at all of how it was done.  There are myths on this planet from virtually every single nook and cranny that describes elaborate relationships with very advanced beings. 

Science is making great progress.  They have still not solved even the most basic problem of how life starts from "lifeless matter" yet countless billions have been spent trying to replicate and prove this process.  Moving from chemical reactions to life that wants to survive, replicates, thinks, seeks out resources, evolves, etc is one HUGE leap and we can't prove it's even possible, yet you've got it all figured out how humans made a leap that we can't find anywhere else in nature … LMAO.

There are many mysteries we are truly clueless about.  I suspect the real  history of modern man is one of them.




So every time you perceive a "mystery" in nature, the first route you take is "intervention", that makes no sense.


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
Re: There's still no proof we come from fishers, reptiles or w.e [Re: qman]
    #21923719 - 07/10/15 09:14 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

qman said:

"intervention to accelerate the development of the human species"

No, it's called nature.




I find it absolutely laughable when people have such intense certainty that they are 100% certain how humans came to be and how our development occurred.  We are barely out of the crib in terms of our understanding of our earth, let alone our universe and the incredible mysteries of DNA.  There is a lot of evidence that is very credible that something has happened to mankind in the last 50,000 years that accelerated our development in a way that has no precedent at all in nature.  There are structures that have been built by primitive man that simply defy any logical description at all of how it was done.  There are myths on this planet from virtually every single nook and cranny that describes elaborate relationships with very advanced beings. 

Science is making great progress.  They have still not solved even the most basic problem of how life starts from "lifeless matter" yet countless billions have been spent trying to replicate and prove this process.  Moving from chemical reactions to life that wants to survive, replicates, thinks, seeks out resources, evolves, etc is one HUGE leap and we can't prove it's even possible, yet you've got it all figured out how humans made a leap that we can't find anywhere else in nature … LMAO.

There are many mysteries we are truly clueless about.  I suspect the real  history of modern man is one of them.




So every time you perceive a "mystery" in nature, the first route you take is "intervention", that makes no sense.




Not at all.  When I see a mystery as big as this one, I try to keep an open mind and consider all possible or probable causes before settling in on an  unproven theory.  I am open to the idea that science will replicate the process of generating life from lifeless matter and will cheer them on when they do it.  I am also quite aware that there is a mountain of evidence that has been collected that very advanced species are interacting with our planet along with a stunning lack of interest from our government.  When virtually every ancient society has stated that they had interactions with very advanced beings and there is plenty of evidence today over the last 70 years that something quite odd is going on in terms of advanced beings being present on our planet, I keep an open mind. 

The theory that it all comes from chemical reactions is one alternative.  It has  yet to be proven.  You believe in it.  More power to ya.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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