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OfflineDeviate
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Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Are your mushroom experiences anything like the levels listed here?
    #21922502 - 07/09/15 11:00 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I used the dosage calculator and it said I should eat 4.92 grams to reach level 5 trip.

I ate 5 grams of some pretty decent mshrooms but my experience was not like the description. Total loss of visual connection with reality? I dont even lose total visual connection with reality when I smoke DMT, except right on the peak of the experience. How is 5 grams of shrooms supposed to cause that?



    Level 1
        5.00

    This level produces a mild "stoning" effect, with some visual enhancement (i.e. brighter colours, etcetera). Some short term memory anomalies. Left/right brain communication changes causing music to sound "wider".

    Level 2
        4.00

    Bright colors, and visuals (i.e. things start to move and breathe), some 2 dimensional patterns become apparent upon shutting eyes. Confused or reminiscent thoughts. Change of short term memory leads to continual distractive thought patterns. Vast increase in creativity becomes apparent as the natural brain filter is bypassed.

    Level 3
        3.67

    Very obvious visuals, everything looking curved and/or warped patterns and kaleidoscopes seen on walls, faces etc. Some mild hallucinations such as rivers flowing in wood grained or "mother of pearl" surfaces. Closed eye hallucinations become 3 dimensional. There is some confusion of the senses (i.e. seeing sounds as colors, etcetera). Time distortions and "moments of eternity".

    Level 4
        4.57

    Strong hallucinations, i.e. objects morphing into other objects. Destruction or multiple splitting of the ego. (Things start talking to you, or you find that you are feeling contradictory things simultaneously). Some loss of reality. Time becomes meaningless. Out of body experiences and e.s.p. type phenomena. Blending of the senses.

    Level 5
        4.50

    Total loss of visual connection with reality. The senses cease to function in the normal way. Total loss of ego. Merging with space, other objects, or the universe. The loss of reality becomes so severe that it defies explanation. The earlier levels are relatively easy to explain in terms of measureable changes in perception and thought patterns. This level is different in that the actual universe within which things are normally perceived, ceases to exist! Satori enlightenment (and other such labels).


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InvisibleGottaloveacid
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Re: Are your mushroom experiences anything like the levels listed here? [Re: Deviate]
    #21924801 - 07/10/15 02:08 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

When this scale was made, the guy said the only ways to reach level 5 experiences are EXTREMELY high mushroom/LSD doses, DMT, ketamine, salvia, and getting electrocuted


--------------------
   
:mushroom2::mushroom2: The greatest story ever told is the story that never ends!:mushroom2::mushroom2:

wubba lubba dub dubstep :gimmebass:


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Invisiblenooneman
Male

Registered: 04/24/09
Posts: 14,561
Loc: Utah
Re: Are your mushroom experiences anything like the levels listed here? [Re: Deviate]
    #21924853 - 07/10/15 02:25 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Shulgin's scale is pretty good:
https://erowid.org/library/books_online/pihkal/shulgin_rating_scale.shtml

++++ really just means "totally incapacitated" though. When someone is totally incapacitated from psychedelics (curled in a ball on the floor unable to speak, etc), the things listed there often happen.


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OfflineAldebaran
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Re: Are your mushroom experiences anything like the levels listed here? [Re: Gottaloveacid] * 1
    #21925165 - 07/10/15 04:04 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

When this scale was made, the guy said the only ways to reach level 5 experiences are EXTREMELY high mushroom/LSD doses, DMT, ketamine, salvia, and getting electrocuted




Where does the scale originate from? It's in the Shroomery trippers FAQ here but it doesn't really specify if it refers to shrooms or all psychedelics.

Personally I think the scale is a bit misleading for shrooms.....it has things in there like e.s.p, things talking to you, out of body experiences at level 4 which are not really a core feature of what I would expect.

It doesn't mention the sheer insanity, delusions and mania that come with high doses and take over....it makes it sound like a trip is primarily visual.

The "loss of visual connection with reality" is also a bit misleading I think. You can lose your grip on reality, sure, but it's more of a general thing.....I find that the "real world" recedes into the background when I'm deep within a trip but it's still there visually. Maybe the ceiling disappears, the floor is filled with numbers and I can see into the glowing walls...but it's still there.

In a very high dose trip it's more like a visionary trance, where I'm "seeing" with my mind, rather than something where my normal visual connection to the world is actually cut off. It's more like there is a spontaneous generation of imagery that I "see" within my mind, behind my eyes, or appears in visual fields that are just "there" in the minds eye, bleeding into both CEV and OEV.

I think a phrase like "The loss of reality becomes so severe that it defies explanation" is more realistic. Also at very high doses I stop caring about the visuals, it's a revelatory experience where the visuals seem inconsequential.

:feelsshroomyman:


--------------------
I wrote that, but I meant something else


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InvisibleGottaloveacid
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Re: Are your mushroom experiences anything like the levels listed here? [Re: Aldebaran]
    #21925271 - 07/10/15 04:27 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Timothy Leary published it in his book "The Psychedelic Experience".


It was in reference to ALL psychedelics, not just shrooms or lsd or dmt or anything else

That is why the definitions for the levels are so broad, there is just so many different effects psychedelics as a whole can give a single person let alone what they might do differently in EVERY single human.

This video should make more sense



--------------------
   
:mushroom2::mushroom2: The greatest story ever told is the story that never ends!:mushroom2::mushroom2:

wubba lubba dub dubstep :gimmebass:


Edited by Gottaloveacid (07/10/15 04:32 PM)


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Offlinehealing
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Re: Are your mushroom experiences anything like the levels listed here? [Re: Gottaloveacid] * 1
    #21926149 - 07/10/15 08:58 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Look at the progression of effects between each level. It is intended to meter perceptual distortions in as general a way as possible.


--------------------
Open mind, open heart, open book.



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OfflinePhuckingnutz
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Re: Are your mushroom experiences anything like the levels listed here? [Re: Deviate]
    #21927653 - 07/11/15 06:59 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

The only thing I can say iabout ANY psychedelic is that one mans trip is another mans meh.
You've done the 5 gram dose now start upping it by 25-50% each time until you find your comfort zone.
Also, how well your shrooms are dried can make a BIG difference. So if they weren't "cracker dry" then that could definitely affect the trip because it seems that you are taking more shrooms than you actually are, fresh shrooms are 90% water. So, if your 5 grams of shrooms were only 9/10'ths dry that would still leave you with 4grams of water or so and make the actual weight of 5 grams weigh only about 2 or 3.
Personally, my favorite way is to eat them as soon as I harvest. Pick around 100 grams, throw them in the blender, frappe and drink. That 100 grams is only 10grams of actual shroom weight, but that is a more than decent trip...fresh always trumps dried NMW.
Also, chitin, which is what shrooms are composed of, mainly, is actually indigestible so grinding your dried shrooms to powder will also add to the experience to some degree, even if only to speed up absorption and give you a quicker stronger trip.
I hope some of this shit was helpful...have fun.


Edited by Phuckingnutz (07/12/15 10:01 AM)


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OfflineHypnotoad420
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Re: Are your mushroom experiences anything like the levels listed here? [Re: Phuckingnutz]
    #21927709 - 07/11/15 07:28 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

For me entering into Level 5 is less to do with dose beyond a certain amount depending on set&setting and the persons intentions and desire going into the trip could drastically effect how far you get.

Could be why some people don't need heroic doses to reach these other dimensions and speak with entities and others need 10+ grams. Its all subjective to the openness per individual consciousness?

:2cents:


--------------------
:hypnotoad:


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Invisiblepaperbackwriter
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Re: Are your mushroom experiences anything like the levels listed here? [Re: Hypnotoad420]
    #21927886 - 07/11/15 08:31 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I see things as more of a spectrum personally but I think the scale is fairly accurate.  It focuses a bit too much on visual and mental aspects while ignoring a lot of other sensory phenomena in my opinion but I suppose that's the nature of being human.


--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley


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OfflineDeviate
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Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: Are your mushroom experiences anything like the levels listed here? [Re: Phuckingnutz]
    #21928558 - 07/11/15 11:51 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Phuckingnutz said:
The only thing I can say iabout ANT psuchedelis is that one mans trip is another mans meh.
You've done the 5 gram dose now start upping it by 25-50 each time until you find your comfort zone.
Also, how well your shrooms are dried can make a BIG difference. So if they weren't "cracker dry" then that could definitely affect the trip because it seems that you are taking more shrooms than you actually are, fresh shrooms are 90% water. So, if your 5 grams of shrooms were only 9/10'ths dry that would still leave you with 4grams of water or so and make the actual weight of 5 grams weigh only about 2 or 3.
Personally, my favorite way is to eat them as soon as I harvest. Pick around 100 grams, throw them in the blender, frappe and drink. That 100 grams is only 10grams of actual shroom weight, but that is a more than decent trip...fresh always trumps dried NMW.
Also, chitin, which is what shrooms are composed of, mainly, is actually indigestible so grinding your dried shrooms to powder will also add to the experience to some degree, even if only to speed up absorption and give you a quicker stronger trip.
I hope some of this shit was helpful...have fun.





Yeah I know about the how well you dry 'em thing because a couple of weeks ago I took 5 grams of the same mushrooms before they were completely dry and the trip was very weak, like only eqivialent to 2.5 grams, 3 max. I thought my shrooms were just weak but after taking 5 grams completely dry and tripping much harder I see its cuz they werent all the way dry.


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Invisible4HO-DMT
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Re: Are your mushroom experiences anything like the levels listed here? [Re: Deviate]
    #21928716 - 07/11/15 12:36 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I've never used the scale personally. I've seen it before, but each trip is so different than any other that I find it hard to categorize, so I don't. :shrug:


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InvisibleBill_Oreilly
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Re: Are your mushroom experiences anything like the levels listed here? [Re: Gottaloveacid]
    #21928740 - 07/11/15 12:44 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Gottaloveacid said:
When this scale was made, the guy said the only ways to reach level 5 experiences are EXTREMELY high mushroom/LSD doses, DMT, ketamine, salvia, and getting electrocuted





I still do not believe any amount of LSD y itself can cause a true level 5. There must be marijuana involved to achieve a real level 5 on acid.

that's my opinion and mine only. Maybe I haven't done enough acid...I don't know. I have done 20 hits of very strong WoW white fluff blotters from a source in California. Best acid I ever had.


--------------------
Something there is mysteriously formed,
Existing before Heaven and Earth,
Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging,
All-pervading, unfailing,
I do not know its name; I call it tao.
If forced to give it a name, I call it
Great (ta). Being great, it flows out;
Flowing out means far-reaching;
Being far-reaching, it is said to return.


It's just a shot away..


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InvisibleGottaloveacid
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Re: Are your mushroom experiences anything like the levels listed here? [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
    #21928756 - 07/11/15 12:48 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah I can see that. I have definitely had several level 5 experiences before, but that was only with k, shrooms, and DMT. I could imagine LSD lets you go to level 4.99999 but could never get to a real level 5.

When I hear reports of huge LSD doses, it just seems more like a highly visual disassociative state, but on shrooms and dmt you are taken to a new dimension


--------------------
   
:mushroom2::mushroom2: The greatest story ever told is the story that never ends!:mushroom2::mushroom2:

wubba lubba dub dubstep :gimmebass:


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InvisibleBill_Oreilly
ANIMALS (the RAINBOW SERPENT)


Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 26,370
Loc: Boston
Re: Are your mushroom experiences anything like the levels listed here? [Re: Gottaloveacid]
    #21928784 - 07/11/15 12:56 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Gottaloveacid said:
Yeah I can see that. I have definitely had several level 5 experiences before, but that was only with k, shrooms, and DMT. I could imagine LSD lets you go to level 4.99999 but could never get to a real level 5.

When I hear reports of huge LSD doses, it just seems more like a highly visual disassociative state, but on shrooms and dmt you are taken to a new dimension





Agreed.


--------------------
Something there is mysteriously formed,
Existing before Heaven and Earth,
Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging,
All-pervading, unfailing,
I do not know its name; I call it tao.
If forced to give it a name, I call it
Great (ta). Being great, it flows out;
Flowing out means far-reaching;
Being far-reaching, it is said to return.


It's just a shot away..


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OfflineRebelutionsssss
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Re: Are your mushroom experiences anything like the levels listed here? [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
    #21928803 - 07/11/15 01:01 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

You definately get more distortion and mindfuckery with psilocybin


--------------------
:
To define is to confine.


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InvisibleBill_Oreilly
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Posts: 26,370
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Re: Are your mushroom experiences anything like the levels listed here? [Re: Rebelutionsssss]
    #21928830 - 07/11/15 01:07 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Rebelutionsssss said:
You definately get more distortion and mindfuckery with psilocybin





def.


now just because I say I don't think LSD can cause level 5s on its own doesn't mean I don't think its one of the best drugs known to man.

I honestly like LSD just as much as mushrooms. But DMT is in a category of its own. It doesn't even feel like a psychedelic. It feels like its something totally different...like some sort of technology you activate by breathing in vapor 2-3 times.


--------------------
Something there is mysteriously formed,
Existing before Heaven and Earth,
Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging,
All-pervading, unfailing,
I do not know its name; I call it tao.
If forced to give it a name, I call it
Great (ta). Being great, it flows out;
Flowing out means far-reaching;
Being far-reaching, it is said to return.


It's just a shot away..


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OfflineAldebaran
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Re: Are your mushroom experiences anything like the levels listed here? [Re: Gottaloveacid]
    #21929020 - 07/11/15 02:05 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Timothy Leary published it in his book "The Psychedelic Experience".

It was in reference to ALL psychedelics, not just shrooms or lsd or dmt or anything else




I've got an html version of "The Psychedelic Experience" that I downloaded from Erowid ages back, but it doesn't have these trip levels in it.

Anyway, that video gives a fuller explanation of the levels, thanks for that, it makes it clearer that some of the level 5 stuff relates to DMT in particular.

However, this is where things get interesting.....

I liked the video so I typed out some of the text relating to level 5 experiences (it gives more detail than the written version). Googling one of these additional sentences brings me to this Shroomery thread from 4 years ago:

The Effects of Tripping

Some of this is original material, but one of the comments points out that some of it is an expansion of The Psychedelic Experience FAQ on Erowid. Now this is a completely different thing to the Leary book (which is all based on the Tibetan Book of the Dead and talks about Bardos and visions, not trip levels). The FAQ is by "Gnosis and Nip" - Leary appears as a credit for writing his book (presumably as inspiration) but is not the author of the FAQ itself.

Anyway, the trip levels appear in this FAQ in the same format as they do at the top of this thread, and they are credited to someone called Graeme Carl. A bit of google-fu reveals the trip levels come from this old-school website here:

http://www.lycaeum.org/~sputnik/Graeme/intro.html

This page gives a "level definition and introduction" in more detail. The trip levels are based around
Quote:

an experimental "pigeon-holing" of my own 60 or so trips from 1986 to the present (October 1993)




The levels are based on mushroom trips (specifically Psilocybe subaeruginosa), and for each level there is even a suggestion of how many mushrooms the level would require (although he also mentions that some of his trips were on LSD).

Quote:

In order to further standardise the dosage for testing, large numbers of mushrooms were picked (300-600) at a time. These were then dried at a constant temp, crushed and mixed to ensure they were homogenous. This was done to avoid the sometimes vast differences in potency that exist between single mushrooms.




It's interesting that the scale is only based on a very limited number of experiences at the higher end of the scale:

Quote:

have spent the majority of my trips at levels 3 & 4 and have now achieved level 5 twice! The first instance was mostly spent in level 4, but I had a few flashover experiences, where I jumped momentarily up to level 5 then down again.




There's a couple of trip reports by this guy to illustrate his levels, here's the link to the level 5 one - Journey Out of the Universe

What's interesting is that although the OEV visual distortions described are pretty strong, the "loss of visual contact with reality" seems to be confined to brief moments of "woah!" in between, say, reaching to the CD player and managing to change the CD. The headspace doesn't actually seem to be too far removed from normality, the OEV sound very strong but it doesn't actually sound like a particularly strong "trip" as such.

:trippinbawelz:

Back to the video, I made the effort to type out the level 5 description so I might as well post it here, even though it's from that other thread I already linked to:

This is what the video says about level 5 (expanding on the original level system to include DMT and other things):

Quote:

among classical psychedelics, only the tryptamines, such as DMT and extremely high doses of psilocybin can induce level 5 experiences. However some atypical psychedelics, like salvia and ketamine, can also induce level 5 experiences at high doses.

Experiences include total loss of visual connection with reality, the sense of not being human or having a body, the loss of reality is so extreme that it becomes ineffable. People have reported seeing themselves in entirely different settings than their original setting, and many people experience the feeling of being in a simulated reality, often computer simulated. Religious phenomenon is reported at this level, often mentioned as a connection to the all-knowing presence, or a universal knowledge, which many equate with extra terrestrials, artificial intelligence, god, love or enlightenment.

Users commonly report:

1) being clearly thrust into outer space at extreme speed
2) being thrust into an expansive void-like alternate dimension, consisting of bright colorful fast-moving kaleidoscope environments, dynamic pulsing colored beams, as well as complex 3-dimensional geometric, mathematical and linguistic patterns made of light.
3)continually traveling at great speeds while watching patterns fly by, more open and reveal more complex patterns within.
4) encountering different types of living beings and super-intelligent bodiless entities at the same time as 1,2 and 3.

These reports include contact with free-floating entities made of light resembling giant spheres, humanoids, multiple types of unrecognisable insects, human sized praying mantises, elves, cephalopods, complex robotic machines, and plants.

5) intelligent beings attempting to communicate with users via visual linguistics, mathematics, morphing colored diamonds of different textures, flesh, gold, liquid metal, colored light. people report beings and entities manipulating what they can see and feel, propelling them in different directions at disorienting speeds, and forcing them to view both macro and microscopic scale objects. objects include planetary systems, galaxies, quasars, natural environments, space habitat, technological utopias, neurons, DNA, mitochondria, trilobites, cephalopds, bryozoa, and artificial self-replicating machines.

most users report a similar auditory pattern of combined high-frequency whine and a slow, deep-throbbing tone similar to a heartbeat.

most dmt users report feeling frequently uninhibited, clear-headed while experiencing peak effects and able to maintain the ability to think and reason in the above circumstances.




There's some nice stuff in there. The bit that strikes me as very true for a high-dose mushroom trip is this bit

Quote:

people experience the feeling of being in a simulated reality, often computer simulated. Religious phenomenon is reported at this level, often mentioned as a connection to the all-knowing presence, or a universal knowledge, which many equate with extra terrestrials, artificial intelligence, god, love or enlightenment.




God, aliens, living in a computer simulation......add in death and those are the delusional ingredients of most of my heavier trips, in one form or another.

The bit that doesn't sound like my shrooms trips is this:

Quote:

People have reported seeing themselves in entirely different settings than their original setting




I think this is the kind of thing that someone might imagine from the description of a "total loss of visual connection with reality" but imhe it's not very likely from shrooms. Descriptions from insane shitstorm shroom doses are more like "CEV invade my vision until I can't see".

The numbered section 1-5 (users commonly report......) seems to be more closely related to DMT experiences, which is fair enough (never tried it). I get some of these effects from shrooms but they would either be in my CEV or within a kind of visionary state. So I might see alien forms in my CEV or in my mind's eye somewhere, but not floating into my room....

:dna: :dna: :dna: :dna:

Well, that was an interesting diversion into the origins of the level system. It's OK as a general guideline, but given that it's based on the limited experiences of one person, I wouldn't pay too much attention to the specific wording if it doesn't match your own experiences. :peace:


--------------------
I wrote that, but I meant something else


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Invisiblepaperbackwriter
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Registered: 03/31/14
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Re: Are your mushroom experiences anything like the levels listed here? [Re: Aldebaran]
    #21929181 - 07/11/15 02:50 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)



--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley


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OfflineHappiBeard
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Re: Are your mushroom experiences anything like the levels listed here? [Re: Deviate]
    #21930790 - 07/11/15 08:47 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I reached level 5 only once. I was on shrooms at the time. I can relate to the loss of consciousness man. I was the whole universe spinning in Fibonacci sequence. Soo mystical. I was pure consciousness experiencing pure consciousness. Changed my life forever.


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Offlinesanchothestoner
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Re: Are your mushroom experiences anything like the levels listed here? [Re: HappiBeard]
    #21930836 - 07/11/15 08:59 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

damn i can't believe some of you have never gotten to level 5 of acid.  i have on numerous occasions.  it's an absolutely wonderful experience.  you go to this place where anything can happen and you are not held down by the boundaries of space and time.  it is a truly magical place where you go to recharge your soul and come out with knowledge, wisdom, and power that you'd never thought possible.  you have experiences that are beyond the world we've become accustomed to, in a totally different way then mushrooms and dmt.  mushrooms and dmt can be quite disorienting, mushrooms more so than deems.  a level 5 acid trip has you relatively clear headed.  to me it feels like entering into a totally different universe where you can see, feel, and hear energy.  you're imagination goes completely wild.... i have quite a bit of level 5 acid trips under my belt that will forever be engraved in my consciousness. 

anyway, op... i'd say that chart is accurate.  i've had multiple level 5 mushroom experiences and the level 5 description fits them well.


--------------------
I fucking hate you... God damn, I love you...
But we both know if we stick together, we'll just tear ourselves apart
You are my sunshine, my only sunshine, you make me happy, when skies are grey
You are my heroin, but there's an abscess... God damn, I miss the vein!


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