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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Registered: 11/11/09
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Re: White People [Re: qman]
    #22036745 - 08/03/15 09:15 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

moonrockmushy said:

It's generally accepted that this preference, or privilege, exists largely on the basis of skin color.  Of course there are many other factors, and it can get endlessly complex if someone wants to find some niche aspect of racism in America to take attention off the bigger picture.  People saying that America has this quality where anyone can get what they want is pretty much a lie and just rhetoric.  We have civil rights because people stood up for them, and in terms of achieving equal standards for work opportunities, school, and quality of life there is still inequality that is in my mind the direct result of racism.  This documentary tried to show that, but apparently that is not fair to some here who feel that since they are (allegedly) not racist themselves, anyone who feels that racism is a problem must be racist, or at least oversensitive regarding racism.

I can understand why a white person, or any American would be more eager to accept the notion that many white "races" assimilated into America, they struggled, and were eventually accepted as equals, but to just leave it at that is ignoring what has actually happened here, and what continues to happen.  There is much more to it than that, there may not be legally sanction oppression of black people anymore but there are clear signs that there are people with ill will towards them solely based on their skin, and some people in very high positions of power still believe that such treatment is justified.




"there is still inequality that is in my mind the direct result of racism"

Economic inequality that effects the vast majority of ALL US citizens is not due to racism :facepalm:, it's the result of economic conditions!!

People are not equal, therefore there's always going to be inequality under the best of conditions. This inequality has nothing to do with race in 2015, there's plenty of poor white people, how does that exist according to your view of the world?  :lol:




This would be a fair point if blacks and whites and asians and so forth experienced those problems equally.


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OnlineCHeifM4sterDiezL
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Registered: 07/28/10
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Re: White People [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #22036756 - 08/03/15 09:20 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

So your saying black people are poor because theyre blck? Are you saying the system is biased toward white people? Your fucking delusional and racist.


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Invisiblepsi
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Registered: 09/05/99
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Re: White People [Re: qman] * 1
    #22036824 - 08/03/15 09:40 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Asante, checkout this 9 minute video, a young black person on the "White People" documentary.





This was pretty decent I thought, notwithstanding the fact that she (?) hadn't seen the full show. If you set out to make a show about "challenging whiteness," you've already limited your scope too much to really paint a complete picture of race issues in America.


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Offlineqman
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Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 2 hours, 39 minutes
Re: White People [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #22036833 - 08/03/15 09:43 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

moonrockmushy said:

It's generally accepted that this preference, or privilege, exists largely on the basis of skin color.  Of course there are many other factors, and it can get endlessly complex if someone wants to find some niche aspect of racism in America to take attention off the bigger picture.  People saying that America has this quality where anyone can get what they want is pretty much a lie and just rhetoric.  We have civil rights because people stood up for them, and in terms of achieving equal standards for work opportunities, school, and quality of life there is still inequality that is in my mind the direct result of racism.  This documentary tried to show that, but apparently that is not fair to some here who feel that since they are (allegedly) not racist themselves, anyone who feels that racism is a problem must be racist, or at least oversensitive regarding racism.

I can understand why a white person, or any American would be more eager to accept the notion that many white "races" assimilated into America, they struggled, and were eventually accepted as equals, but to just leave it at that is ignoring what has actually happened here, and what continues to happen.  There is much more to it than that, there may not be legally sanction oppression of black people anymore but there are clear signs that there are people with ill will towards them solely based on their skin, and some people in very high positions of power still believe that such treatment is justified.




"there is still inequality that is in my mind the direct result of racism"

Economic inequality that effects the vast majority of ALL US citizens is not due to racism :facepalm:, it's the result of economic conditions!!

People are not equal, therefore there's always going to be inequality under the best of conditions. This inequality has nothing to do with race in 2015, there's plenty of poor white people, how does that exist according to your view of the world?  :lol:




This would be a fair point if blacks and whites and asians and so forth experienced those problems equally.




It's never going to be completely equal, so the large majority of the 1/1000 of 1% er's are white, what does that have to do with the 75% of whites that are working class peasants?  NOTHING.

FYI there are millions of whites on welfare, disability, food stamps, and the prisons are also full of them.  Why don't you complain about "Asian Privilege"?


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Offlineqman
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Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 2 hours, 39 minutes
Re: White People [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
    #22036846 - 08/03/15 09:48 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

CHeifM4sterDiezL said:
So your saying black people are poor because theyre blck? Are you saying the system is biased toward white people? Your fucking delusional and racist.




Black/White people are poor because they have children they can't afford and don't place a strong emphasis on education and work ethic.


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OfflineD.M.T
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Re: White People [Re: qman]
    #22036857 - 08/03/15 09:52 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Asians are disproportionately richer and have lower incarceration rates than all other races in the US. Must be Asian privilege!!


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Offlinemakaveli8x8
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Re: White People [Re: D.M.T]
    #22036898 - 08/03/15 10:08 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

maybe god just made asians smarter?  i can say that because im white and not racist


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


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OfflineHerbologist
Grrratata
I'm a teapot


Registered: 05/09/10
Posts: 7,471
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Re: White People [Re: D.M.T]
    #22037133 - 08/03/15 11:03 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

D.M.T said:
Asians are disproportionately richer and have lower incarceration rates than all other races in the US. Must be Asian privilege!!





Asian privilege.  As a white person I feel oppressed by this.


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Shroomery Law:  Don't piss off the leftist mods & their friends! :banhamster:


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,369
Loc: 'Merica Flag
Last seen: 1 hour, 3 minutes
Re: White People [Re: qman]
    #22037301 - 08/03/15 11:48 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

moonrockmushy said:

It's generally accepted that this preference, or privilege, exists largely on the basis of skin color.  Of course there are many other factors, and it can get endlessly complex if someone wants to find some niche aspect of racism in America to take attention off the bigger picture.  People saying that America has this quality where anyone can get what they want is pretty much a lie and just rhetoric.  We have civil rights because people stood up for them, and in terms of achieving equal standards for work opportunities, school, and quality of life there is still inequality that is in my mind the direct result of racism.  This documentary tried to show that, but apparently that is not fair to some here who feel that since they are (allegedly) not racist themselves, anyone who feels that racism is a problem must be racist, or at least oversensitive regarding racism.

I can understand why a white person, or any American would be more eager to accept the notion that many white "races" assimilated into America, they struggled, and were eventually accepted as equals, but to just leave it at that is ignoring what has actually happened here, and what continues to happen.  There is much more to it than that, there may not be legally sanction oppression of black people anymore but there are clear signs that there are people with ill will towards them solely based on their skin, and some people in very high positions of power still believe that such treatment is justified.




"there is still inequality that is in my mind the direct result of racism"

Economic inequality that effects the vast majority of ALL US citizens is not due to racism :facepalm:, it's the result of economic conditions!!

People are not equal, therefore there's always going to be inequality under the best of conditions. This inequality has nothing to do with race in 2015, there's plenty of poor white people, how does that exist according to your view of the world?  :lol:




This would be a fair point if blacks and whites and asians and so forth experienced those problems equally.




It's never going to be completely equal, so the large majority of the 1/1000 of 1% er's are white, what does that have to do with the 75% of whites that are working class peasants?  NOTHING.

FYI there are millions of whites on welfare, disability, food stamps, and the prisons are also full of them.  Why don't you complain about "Asian Privilege"?




I'm not complaining, you are.

But I wouldn't downplay the psychological effect on minorities that virtually all the "powers that be" are white males.

Either way, I think it's more about institutionalized racism than it is about classes. Minorities are well aware that poor white people exist.


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OfflineD.M.T
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Re: White People [Re: The Ecstatic] * 2
    #22037361 - 08/03/15 12:00 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Why would the white man powers that be let Asians exceed them in every regard if they were racist?


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Offlineqman
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Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 2 hours, 39 minutes
Re: White People [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #22037377 - 08/03/15 12:03 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

moonrockmushy said:

It's generally accepted that this preference, or privilege, exists largely on the basis of skin color.  Of course there are many other factors, and it can get endlessly complex if someone wants to find some niche aspect of racism in America to take attention off the bigger picture.  People saying that America has this quality where anyone can get what they want is pretty much a lie and just rhetoric.  We have civil rights because people stood up for them, and in terms of achieving equal standards for work opportunities, school, and quality of life there is still inequality that is in my mind the direct result of racism.  This documentary tried to show that, but apparently that is not fair to some here who feel that since they are (allegedly) not racist themselves, anyone who feels that racism is a problem must be racist, or at least oversensitive regarding racism.

I can understand why a white person, or any American would be more eager to accept the notion that many white "races" assimilated into America, they struggled, and were eventually accepted as equals, but to just leave it at that is ignoring what has actually happened here, and what continues to happen.  There is much more to it than that, there may not be legally sanction oppression of black people anymore but there are clear signs that there are people with ill will towards them solely based on their skin, and some people in very high positions of power still believe that such treatment is justified.




"there is still inequality that is in my mind the direct result of racism"

Economic inequality that effects the vast majority of ALL US citizens is not due to racism :facepalm:, it's the result of economic conditions!!

People are not equal, therefore there's always going to be inequality under the best of conditions. This inequality has nothing to do with race in 2015, there's plenty of poor white people, how does that exist according to your view of the world?  :lol:




This would be a fair point if blacks and whites and asians and so forth experienced those problems equally.




It's never going to be completely equal, so the large majority of the 1/1000 of 1% er's are white, what does that have to do with the 75% of whites that are working class peasants?  NOTHING.

FYI there are millions of whites on welfare, disability, food stamps, and the prisons are also full of them.  Why don't you complain about "Asian Privilege"?




I'm not complaining, you are.

But I wouldn't downplay the psychological effect on minorities that virtually all the "powers that be" are white males.

Either way, I think it's more about institutionalized racism than it is about classes. Minorities are well aware that poor white people exist.




"I'm not complaining, you are"

I'm pointing out the huge hypocrisy that is taking place from the "white privilege" morons, that's not complaining about Asians.  :facepalm:

"Minorities are well aware that poor white people exist"

Yes they do, but guess what?  No one wants to hear that message when people push the "victimization" agenda.


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Offlineqman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
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Re: White People [Re: D.M.T] * 1
    #22037391 - 08/03/15 12:06 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

D.M.T said:
Why would the white man powers that be let Asians exceed them in every regard if they were racist?




You better stop making so much sense, you're making them think.  :rofl2:


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,369
Loc: 'Merica Flag
Last seen: 1 hour, 3 minutes
Re: White People [Re: D.M.T]
    #22037673 - 08/03/15 01:15 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

D.M.T said:
Why would the white man powers that be let Asians exceed them in every regard if they were racist?




What Asians?

Not the vast majority of them...


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InvisibleSrirachi
Mold Hand
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Registered: 10/18/05
Posts: 11,411
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Re: White People [Re: qman]
    #22037682 - 08/03/15 01:17 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

How far back in history do we go when we're trying to level the playing field for everyone? If we give preferential treatment to blacks because of slavery, mustn't we also remunerate the Irish, Polish, Chinese, Japanese, etc races who were discriminated against well after slavery?

It's madness. History is full of things that suck really bad. It's a character flaw that a person today would think that their people suffered in the past so they need preferential treatment today. It's just one more excuse to not try.

The Selma marchers didn't wait for Affirmative Action or some white handout. They heroically fought for and took what was theirs. They shook the National conscience so profoundly with their sacrifice and determination that the strength of their character INVALIDATED the racists. You can't point to a man braving clubs, mace, fire hoses and dogs with the resolve to die today if he must, and say "there's a nigger." That's a foul word, and no one will believe it applies to such a man.

Now, put that man on welfare, convince him that nothing he does matters because white privilege, and send Jesse Jackson to make sure every last bit of hope has been wrung out of him, and perpetuate that for a couple of generations.

...my point still being that it is black entertainers and community organizers who profit from perceptions of racism who are the racists doing damage to the Black community.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,369
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Re: White People [Re: Srirachi] * 2
    #22037709 - 08/03/15 01:24 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Those heroic Selma fighters, as you call them, were labelled terrorists by the majority then, and would be now.

Did we suddenly forget the FBI infiltrated the civil rights movement?

This isn't some ancient history that only the victims are dredging up, it's a history that's actively being preserved, and in some cases resurrected. Just look at all the idiots whining about confederate flags.


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InvisibleSrirachi
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Re: White People [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #22037775 - 08/03/15 01:39 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I stand by my statement. Trading your life for your children's future is heroic. Having an Indomitable Spirit is heroic. Dying on your feet instead of your knees is heroic.

Who are the black heroes today? What have they done?

Nothing compared to Crispus Attucks. His death started the American Revolution - and I think it bears mention that the British severely underestimated the worth of a mulatto in the eyes of the early American settlers. They assumed they could shoot him and it would be no big deal. Wrong, started a world war. Yes, I know it was the Revolutionary War. The Revolutionary War was a world war.

Nothing compared to Frederick Douglass. He taught himself to read, write, and was a better lawyer than Enlil because he actually won a case. The one for his freedom. He went on to sway the hearts and minds of tens of thousands with his skillful oration... and had never heard of affirmative action.

Nothing compared to the Selma marchers, or Dr. ML King Jr., or Colin Powell or God help me I'm gonna say it, Barack Obama. I don't like the President at all, not one bit - but it is undeniable that the man was able to believe that he could succeed in spite of his skin color.

I'm not saying differences don't exist. I'm saying the past can't be changed and the way to fix the future is to stop seeing race as any more important than eye color or dick length. We can't make one more step of progress until white people stop talking about black people as if they can't do what every other culture in human history has done, and overcome the obstacles they face.


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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Re: White People [Re: Srirachi] * 1
    #22037926 - 08/03/15 02:27 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Rather than call it white privilege, you could just say that it is awful convenient when white people are truly colorblind such as you.

Did you watch the video?  You're really going to keep harping on affirmative action like that is a valid point?  What specific policies are you referring to that you think are giving minorities an unfair advantage?

I think this applies:

Quote:

In sum, color-awareness best describes and most accurately captures the historical, contemporary, contextual, and nuanced dimensions of this nation's history and color line. As stated in Palmore v. Sidoti, it "would ignore reality to suggest that racial and ethnic prejudices do not exist or that all manifestations of those prejudices have been eliminated." Those who are color-aware are more likely to see the full dimensions of racial caste and subordination than are those who limit their legal and social inquiries to misguided attempts at achieving a purportedly neutral colorblind position. To borrow the words of Stanley Crouch, colorblindness is: a fiction that shrinks our understanding of this country by avoiding the evidence of those things seen just about everywhere--in our politics, our mass media, on our menus, our campuses, our showroom floors, in our department stores, our malls, our bureaucracies, the lobbies of our hotels, our movie theaters, at our airports, on our highways, in our advertising. Color-awareness is not similarly flawed.




http://academic.udayton.edu/race/03justice/justice06.htm

The paper also talks about MLK and posits that he was not as color-blind as some would make him out to be.  I think you're confusing the dream with the reality, and perhaps one day we will find out what happens to a dream deferred.


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InvisibleTantrika
Miss Ann Thrope
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Re: White People [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #22038477 - 08/03/15 05:08 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
Quote:

...anyone who professes to care about racism but sees the words white supremacy and crumbles away doesn't really care about racism and isn't ready for anti-racist work.

It's not that I don't think it's important more white people care about racism. Not at all. It's just that I don't believe talking them into it--gently or otherwise--is likely to make that happen. Not to mention, most people who act as if they're a few convincing words away from caring about racism are usually deliberately wasting your time. These are concern trolls. Or sea lions.

I'm not going to waste my time and energy trying to convince people to do what is morally right. What is historically just. And what should be a given for any white person who cares to stand on the right side of history.

And yes, that is a condemnation of those who sit silently by, ignoring or failing to notice the oppression and racism that surrounds us. And no, that condemnation is not meant to bring those I condemn into the fold. If someone doesn't care about racism and oppression in all its forms I don't expect my (or anyone's) condemnation to change their mind. Nor do I believe refraining from such a condemnation, or the use of accurate labels, like white supremacy, would.

Personally, I think it's much more important to speak to white people who are committed to fighting oppression in all its forms, but don't quite know how, rather than to speak to those mythical creatures who might be convinced if someone would only approach them with the right tone or turn of phrase. Or my favorite, the right data.

Do we need more white anti-racists? Always. And the best way to cultivate them is to model what that looks like for those would-be anti-racists who need no convincing of this works' importance, and simply lack the tools, awareness, and understanding of what anti-racism looks like, rather than by wasting our breath on those who need to be convinced of its importance in the first place.




http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jesse-benn/the-white-antiracism-tone_b_7861740.html

I agree with the sentiment behind these statements.




From the same article:

Quote:

It's white privilege that growing up almost all of my teachers in school looked like me. Or that almost all of the characters in children's books and on TV looked like me. It's white supremacy that created a system in which this was inevitable.

It's white privilege to walk into a room and be interviewed by someone who looks like me. It's white supremacy that made it so this is a routine occurrence.

So, white supremacy refers to the system, white privilege refers to its benefits. The two are inexorably tied, but not the same thing.




Maybe this is part of where my difficulty in comprehending the discussion around the issue comes in.
In Canada, I grew up in an area where I had predominately white teachers, as it was a relatively small town with a mainly white population in general; however, when I was going to University in Montréal and had a teaching stage in one of the local schools, the staff was very diverse.  Likewise, my faculty had a lot of students from a variety of cultural backgrounds pursuing teaching as a career.
It is even part of the First Year curriculum to undergo courses related to cultural diversity and human rights before being sent for in-school experience.

Are US schools really staffed predominately/almost exclusively by white people, or is that more a matter of the neighbourhood the author grew up in? :confused:

As for Children's books and TV -- I grew up with stuff like the Berenstain Bears, which certainly don't look like any human I have met (though, I suppose, furries might consider them iconic, not sure).
When I got a bit older I got into gaming, and in games where I am free to design my own character I often play a woman, frequently with dark skin, because I like that it is a form of media that allows me to have any individual perform to the same capabilities, regardless of appearance.  Games where I cannot design my character do not hold my attention as long, but the majority of characters may be white...Or perhaps asian -- though the most iconic video game character is an Italian plumber created by a Japanese man.
:shrug:

As for the author's other note, can only remember two occurrences in Montréal where my interview was handled by a white person; and of those two occurrences, one of them was specifically working for a small moving company that was directly owned by a friend of mine and her husband.

Maybe I would view the entirety of my experiences rather differently if I were predominately of First Nations descent though...


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: White People [Re: Tantrika]
    #22038811 - 08/03/15 06:15 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)



--------------------


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InvisibletheRAPeutic
Hueman
Male

Registered: 07/22/13
Posts: 8,702
Re: White People [Re: zappaisgod] * 1
    #22038947 - 08/03/15 06:44 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

CMT, USA, FX, CBS, NBC, A&E,  etc. etc. etc.


god forbid theres even one tv station where black people can sit down and watch a show with people who look like them.

Univision and Telemundo. i never seen you complain about that. its only a problem when the black man has something. and BET has been white owned for over a decade.


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