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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: White People [Re: Asante] * 2
    #22034877 - 08/02/15 07:01 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
Doesnt surprise me one bit that you guys only watched a few minutes or not at all.





you're welcome to carry the white guilt for all people if you want,
I'll make sure to refer the angry black people to you


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OfflineD.M.T
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Re: White People [Re: Prisoner#1] * 1
    #22034902 - 08/02/15 07:09 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I watched the whole thing. You aren't missing anything. It was crap.


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OfflineDurgaDurg
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Re: White People [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22034906 - 08/02/15 07:10 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Asante knows how to stir the shit pot. I didn't bother to watch it.

How about a little black guilt for all the crime caused, all the cost to our welfare system and judicial system?




I think this is exactly the type of reaction the makers of this show want out of white people. They're trying to drive a wedge between people.


--------------------
When you see him look him in the eye, look him in the eye and he won’t dare to follow
If you need to, hook him with your right, hook him with your right till he wiggles and wallows

He sleeps atop a bag of raven’s legs, curled up rats napping by his head
Takes his eye out with a ball point pen
And makes nunchaku with his torn off legs

You wake up with a hatchet over your head
You wake up with a hatchet over your head


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OfflineKonyap

Registered: 06/30/07
Posts: 33,945
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Re: White People [Re: D.M.T]
    #22035019 - 08/02/15 07:40 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

D.M.T said:
I watched the whole thing. You aren't missing anything. It was crap.




Most of the people in the video were spoiled and mentally retarded tbf


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Invisiblepsi
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Re: White People [Re: D.M.T] * 1
    #22035097 - 08/02/15 08:01 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I watched the whole video. A few parts were ok but I found the host pretty irritating. So many smug eyebrow raises. I thought it was pretty telling in the part on the native reserve where they were discussing that ethnic slur for white people and when the one girl was talking about how she doesn't use it because her father taught her not to be racist, they just kind of cut to something else and don't touch on the point again. The part about the transition of that neighborhood from Italian to Chinese I found fairly honest and free of spin though.


Personally I find the concept of "white privilege" to be framed in a slanted and ideologically-driven way. Most of the examples typically given to illustrate it would apply to just about any ethnic group that forms the majority somewhere. If someone can tell by looking at you that you are not part of the majority ethnic group, it's likely you'll receive different treatment enough of the time that it makes a strong impression. But no, it all has to be about "whiteness". Let's also take a moment to remember how white people and nobody else worth mentioning were the villains of history.


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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Re: White People [Re: psi]
    #22035231 - 08/02/15 08:37 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I think you are probably not in the target audience, and are looking to find something wrong with it, but hey I guess everyone's got personal feelings they can't describe with logic.  I certainly have my reservations about MTV and find myself questioning how much of this was produced and edited to tread the line of being controversial but not inflammatory, but they also have put out alot of messages over the years that I think are well intended and aimed at getting young people involved in politics.  I'm not generally into their content since I was 13 or so (though I do get caught watching true life and other shows with my lil sister sometimes :tongue:), but I'll give them credit for making some effort.

It's like when McDonalds tries to add healthy options to their menu.  It's a bit hypocritical, and not what alot of people want to see, but overall a sign that people are becoming more conscious of what they eat.

In terms of the white privilege thing, it is just about acknowledging the reality of the situation.  Should we not discuss that, or just call it something else?  The fact is that white people are less likely to be arrested and punished harshly, and more likely to be given opportunities to achieve success and recognition.  There are numbers to back that up, and the disagreement seems to come down to who's fault is this, but I don't think that's what it is all about.  If we cannot look at ourselves in a way that is honest and true to the values we preach, then we are basically just leaving everything up to chance and assuming that it will work out on it's own when the whole of human history I think proves otherwise.


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Invisiblepsi
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Re: White People [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #22035243 - 08/02/15 08:42 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
hey I guess everyone's got personal feelings they can't describe with logic.




I'm not sure I follow, what specifically is this in reference to? And what makes you think I was looking to find something wrong with the video? I mentioned a part that I thought was alright.


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OfflineD.M.T
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Re: White People [Re: psi]
    #22035248 - 08/02/15 08:44 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I'll admit it wasn't as terrible as I expected, but I would have liked to see more of the conservative white opinion. There was a bit of one-way slant going on.


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OnlineCHeifM4sterDiezL
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Registered: 07/28/10
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Re: White People [Re: psi] * 1
    #22035261 - 08/02/15 08:47 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

yeh no yeh you people are fucking retared i told you before everyone in america gets a fair shake of the stick regardless of the colour of their skin. The class system in america is based almost soley on economic status fuck shoomery is one of the most racist sites i think ive ever seen you should be ashamed of yourselves.


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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Re: White People [Re: psi]
    #22035266 - 08/02/15 08:48 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

psi said:
Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
hey I guess everyone's got personal feelings they can't describe with logic.




I'm not sure I follow, what specifically is this in reference to? And what makes you think I was looking to find something wrong with the video? I mentioned a part that I thought was alright.




I guess the smug eyebrow raises and host being irritating, as well as reading into the part where the girl ways she prefers not to use whatever that word what because it feels wrong to her.  I didn't really pick up any of that, and it doesn't really seem to be saying anything concrete other than you have a vague feeling the sentiments expressed are not credible.


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Offlineqman
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Re: White People [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #22035272 - 08/02/15 08:49 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
I think you are probably not in the target audience, and are looking to find something wrong with it, but hey I guess everyone's got personal feelings they can't describe with logic.  I certainly have my reservations about MTV and find myself questioning how much of this was produced and edited to tread the line of being controversial but not inflammatory, but they also have put out alot of messages over the years that I think are well intended and aimed at getting young people involved in politics.  I'm not generally into their content since I was 13 or so, but I'll give them credit for making some effort.

It's like when McDonalds tries to add healthy options to their menu.  It's a bit hypocritical, and not what alot of people want to see, but overall a sign that people are becoming more conscious of what they eat.

In terms of the white privilege thing, it is just about acknowledging the reality of the situation.  Should we not discuss that, or just call it something else?  The fact is that white people are less likely to be arrested and punished harshly, and more likely to be given opportunities to achieve success and recognition.  There are numbers to back that up, and the disagreement seems to come down to who's fault is this, but I don't think that's what it is all about.  If we cannot look at ourselves in a way that is honest and true to the values we preach, then we are basically just leaving everything up to chance and assuming that it will work out on it's own when the whole of human history I think proves otherwise.




"white people are less likely to be arrested" 

:facepalm:  That's not white evidence of "white privilege", it's evidence that they don't commit as much crime!!

"There are numbers to back that up"

Yes there are, I posted criminal statistics many times.

"more likely to be given opportunities to achieve success"

Those opportunities are most likely earned, unlike Affirmative Action.

The show was a joke and so is the host.


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Offlineqman
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Re: White People [Re: qman] * 5
    #22035525 - 08/02/15 09:54 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Asante, checkout this 9 minute video, a young black person on the "White People" documentary.



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Invisiblepsi
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Re: White People [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #22035547 - 08/02/15 10:00 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
In terms of the white privilege thing, it is just about acknowledging the reality of the situation.  Should we not discuss that, or just call it something else?



Calling it something else would be a thought. What should we call this kind of thing when it occurs in some other country where some other ethnic group is the majority? "Majority privilege" perhaps? Or is it really something unique to white people somehow?


Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
Quote:

psi said:
Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
hey I guess everyone's got personal feelings they can't describe with logic.




I'm not sure I follow, what specifically is this in reference to? And what makes you think I was looking to find something wrong with the video? I mentioned a part that I thought was alright.




I guess the smug eyebrow raises and host being irritating, as well as reading into the part where the girl ways she prefers not to use whatever that word what because it feels wrong to her.  I didn't really pick up any of that, and it doesn't really seem to be saying anything concrete other than you have a vague feeling the sentiments expressed are not credible.




OK, yeah you do have a point. Facial expressions aside, I'd have to say that it was the "let's make everyone uncomfortable" schtick that I didn't like about the host. It seemed forced, and it was applied in a selective way. Presumably it made some people uncomfortable when that girl identified made the connection between that term and racism, but there were no follow-up questions to anyone else about what she had just said. Did they disagree? Was this something they had thought about?

In the Brooklyn segment, the host went with the flow more and it seemed like the story was allowed to develop more naturally.


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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Re: White People [Re: psi]
    #22035714 - 08/02/15 10:43 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah it definitely could have paid more attention to the situation that is happening in Indian reservations which is often overlooked, but they also could have not included it at all.  It seemed like they just didn't get as good footage there and I guess you could interpret it as they were not as eager to agitate these students, but that could be because they don't want to come in a high school and be overly disruptive.

It's generally accepted that this preference, or privilege, exists largely on the basis of skin color.  Of course there are many other factors, and it can get endlessly complex if someone wants to find some niche aspect of racism in America to take attention off the bigger picture.  People saying that America has this quality where anyone can get what they want is pretty much a lie and just rhetoric.  We have civil rights because people stood up for them, and in terms of achieving equal standards for work opportunities, school, and quality of life there is still inequality that is in my mind the direct result of racism.  This documentary tried to show that, but apparently that is not fair to some here who feel that since they are (allegedly) not racist themselves, anyone who feels that racism is a problem must be racist, or at least oversensitive regarding racism.

I can understand why a white person, or any American would be more eager to accept the notion that many white "races" assimilated into America, they struggled, and were eventually accepted as equals, but to just leave it at that is ignoring what has actually happened here, and what continues to happen.  There is much more to it than that, there may not be legally sanction oppression of black people anymore but there are clear signs that there are people with ill will towards them solely based on their skin, and some people in very high positions of power still believe that such treatment is justified.


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OfflineKonyap

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Re: White People [Re: psi]
    #22035718 - 08/02/15 10:44 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

it only focused on white people for a majority of the time and the inferences the people made were trivial and uneducated

it's like if you walked into McDonalds and Precious had a job there, you're supposed to light up and smile when you see it.


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InvisibleSrirachi
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Re: White People [Re: Konyap]
    #22036429 - 08/03/15 05:45 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

:bump: just because


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OfflineKonyap

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Re: White People [Re: Srirachi]
    #22036496 - 08/03/15 06:39 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

my bad


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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Re: White People [Re: Srirachi]
    #22036498 - 08/03/15 06:40 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

...anyone who professes to care about racism but sees the words white supremacy and crumbles away doesn't really care about racism and isn't ready for anti-racist work.

It's not that I don't think it's important more white people care about racism. Not at all. It's just that I don't believe talking them into it--gently or otherwise--is likely to make that happen. Not to mention, most people who act as if they're a few convincing words away from caring about racism are usually deliberately wasting your time. These are concern trolls. Or sea lions.

I'm not going to waste my time and energy trying to convince people to do what is morally right. What is historically just. And what should be a given for any white person who cares to stand on the right side of history.

And yes, that is a condemnation of those who sit silently by, ignoring or failing to notice the oppression and racism that surrounds us. And no, that condemnation is not meant to bring those I condemn into the fold. If someone doesn't care about racism and oppression in all its forms I don't expect my (or anyone's) condemnation to change their mind. Nor do I believe refraining from such a condemnation, or the use of accurate labels, like white supremacy, would.

Personally, I think it's much more important to speak to white people who are committed to fighting oppression in all its forms, but don't quite know how, rather than to speak to those mythical creatures who might be convinced if someone would only approach them with the right tone or turn of phrase. Or my favorite, the right data.

Do we need more white anti-racists? Always. And the best way to cultivate them is to model what that looks like for those would-be anti-racists who need no convincing of this works' importance, and simply lack the tools, awareness, and understanding of what anti-racism looks like, rather than by wasting our breath on those who need to be convinced of its importance in the first place.




http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jesse-benn/the-white-antiracism-tone_b_7861740.html

I agree with the sentiment behind these statements.


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InvisibleSrirachi
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Re: White People [Re: Konyap]
    #22036562 - 08/03/15 07:27 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

No I didn't mean it like that... I just didn't think this idea has been discussed to death just yet and bumped it so others might weigh in. It's a glorious look into the collective consciousness.

People are jaded these days, until you're talking about sex, religion, or white people. Then emotion quickly becomes fact, and normally rational people completely lose their interface.

I didn't mean to imply your post was a bump just because :thumbup:


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Offlineqman
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Re: White People [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #22036605 - 08/03/15 08:07 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

moonrockmushy said:

It's generally accepted that this preference, or privilege, exists largely on the basis of skin color.  Of course there are many other factors, and it can get endlessly complex if someone wants to find some niche aspect of racism in America to take attention off the bigger picture.  People saying that America has this quality where anyone can get what they want is pretty much a lie and just rhetoric.  We have civil rights because people stood up for them, and in terms of achieving equal standards for work opportunities, school, and quality of life there is still inequality that is in my mind the direct result of racism.  This documentary tried to show that, but apparently that is not fair to some here who feel that since they are (allegedly) not racist themselves, anyone who feels that racism is a problem must be racist, or at least oversensitive regarding racism.

I can understand why a white person, or any American would be more eager to accept the notion that many white "races" assimilated into America, they struggled, and were eventually accepted as equals, but to just leave it at that is ignoring what has actually happened here, and what continues to happen.  There is much more to it than that, there may not be legally sanction oppression of black people anymore but there are clear signs that there are people with ill will towards them solely based on their skin, and some people in very high positions of power still believe that such treatment is justified.




"there is still inequality that is in my mind the direct result of racism"

Economic inequality that effects the vast majority of ALL US citizens is not due to racism :facepalm:, it's the result of economic conditions!!

People are not equal, therefore there's always going to be inequality under the best of conditions. This inequality has nothing to do with race in 2015, there's plenty of poor white people, how does that exist according to your view of the world?  :lol:


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