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vanillasnake21
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Is this a good time to birth? (pictures)
#21917763 - 07/09/15 01:19 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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This is my first grow, I inoculated the jars on 6/18/15 and 've been trying to log the whole process as I go. They seems to have fully colonized about 4 days ago but I've been waiting to see pins before I birth. I've just read that it's a bad idea and that I should birth them a week after full colonization, which is about now. Anyways just to be sure here are some pics of them.



Also I'd like 'dunk and roll' them. I've read many posts on this but how exactly is it done like step by step? They say throw the cakes in the water, but won't it just end up being a bucked of mud at the end of 12 hours? Also what does roll mean?
I would also like to case them, not sure of the term. Is it just putting them in a tray and filling in vermiculite around them and over them until they're fully covered? Then I have to wait the tray to colonize also or can I just put it out under room light?
Is that everything I can do to maximize the yield? All I have is these 3 glasses here, so I would like to get as much as possible from them. Sorry for so many question, thanks for reading.
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Yerow
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Re: Is this a good time to birth? (pictures) [Re: vanillasnake21]
#21917971 - 07/09/15 03:32 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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they look fine, pop them out of their container carefully and rinse them under cold water. While rinsing brush the top with your finger, removing the vermiculite layer.
Then throw them in a pot filled with water and let sit 12-24 hours, i usually just do 12.
after 12-24 hours then fill a bowl or a plate with fine vermiculite, just straight from the bag is fine, but you can throw it in the oven for 30 mins if you want to. Then rinse the cakes again, roll them in the vermiculite or kinda sprinkle it over them, get them completely covered from top to bottom, then into FC
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Yerow
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Re: Is this a good time to birth? (pictures) [Re: Yerow]
#21917973 - 07/09/15 03:34 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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You do not case brf cakes, you can break them up and spawn them to a sub like cvg (coir,verm,gypsum)
You should just use them as cakes, as they are intended for, use grains and bulk subs if you wanna play around with casing stuff
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FlyOnTheWall
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Re: Is this a good time to birth? (pictures) [Re: Yerow]
#21917989 - 07/09/15 03:46 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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They seem ready to go. If I was you, I would go ahead and get them out of there. I'm not an expert, but I think you will get a better pin set if they have lots of fresh air exchange than you will if you leave them in the container longer.
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vanillasnake21
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Re: Is this a good time to birth? (pictures) [Re: FlyOnTheWall]
#21918034 - 07/09/15 04:25 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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@Yerow @FlyOnTheWall thanks, I will take them out tomorrow then. I'm assuming FC means fruiting chamber, so I have to find a decent one that keeps the moisture in. And Yerow, you explained the dunk and roll clear enough, I will try to follow it. I guess I'll just go with how they are, I don't really want to crumble them, I hope it will be a decent yield. Thanks)
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vanillasnake21
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Re: Is this a good time to birth? (pictures) [Re: vanillasnake21]
#21918255 - 07/09/15 07:03 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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So I just birthed them, the mycelium looks stunning and the smell is so fresh and amazing that it's tempting to have a go at them. A few pics.
  
I put them in the fridge right away, but I had another question, when I get to fruiting which should be tomorrow, instead of using perlite for moisture can I just use a plate of water? And can I leave the container open since I'm not too big on maintenance and will most like forget to waft them, so if I leave the container open will the humidity level be enough for a decent growth? Does it really have to be at 95%? Thanks.
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Edited by vanillasnake21 (07/09/15 07:04 AM)
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FlyOnTheWall
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Re: Is this a good time to birth? (pictures) [Re: vanillasnake21]
#21918276 - 07/09/15 07:16 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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No a plate of water will absolutely not work. Sorry man. You need perlite...you can also use leca expanded clay pellets. Like for hydroponics.
All the moisture on the surfaces of the perlite or the clay balls evaporating is what creates the humidity. You will never be able to create enough humidity with plain water.
edit: I didn't realize you didn't have a fruiting chamber ready to go. You really need to have that ready before you birth the cakes.
If I were you, I would put those cakes in water (fully submerged), and cover it up. Now you have a little time to work with, and you need to go get two clear containers and some perlite so you can make a fruiting chamber.
Do some searching on this site and learn how to make a fruiting chamber for cakes. PF tek style.
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vanillasnake21
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Re: Is this a good time to birth? (pictures) [Re: FlyOnTheWall]
#21918287 - 07/09/15 07:21 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I see, it's no big deal perlite is like 3 bucks, just have to get to home depo today. Do you know if I can leave the container open, I've read so many threads tonight and a lot of people are having trouble keeping the CO2 out of the container. I really don't have time to waft them 4 times a day. Do you think I will have a problem keeping the moisture in?
edit to your edit: If you see the second pic that's the container I put the cakes in, I have a lid for it, so I closed it up and put it in the fridge as the dunk and roll tek goes. I'm thinking of using that same container as my chamber. I will put the perlite on the bottom and keep the lid slightly open, if I can, that relates to my first question above.
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Edited by vanillasnake21 (07/09/15 07:25 AM)
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FlyOnTheWall
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Re: Is this a good time to birth? (pictures) [Re: vanillasnake21]
#21918298 - 07/09/15 07:29 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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No, don't leave the container open. You might need to do a little more reading if you really want good results.
You will need to poke a bunch of holes in the the clear plastic containers for fresh air exchange.
I think you may be able to get away with leaving a fan on in the room you have the fruiting chamber in. Not pointing at the fruiting chamber, but just in the same room.
That might provide enough fresh air exchange (FAE) if you can't fan it. I think fanning it regularly is probably best, though.
Maybe somebody who is more knowledgeable will chime in.
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FlyOnTheWall
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Re: Is this a good time to birth? (pictures) [Re: vanillasnake21]
#21918304 - 07/09/15 07:31 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
vanillasnake21 said: edit to your edit: If you see the second pic that's the container I put the cakes in, I have a lid for it, so I closed it up and put it in the fridge as the dunk and roll tek goes. I'm thinking of using that same container as my chamber. I will put the perlite on the bottom and keep the lid slightly open, if I can, that relates to my first question above.
You could maybe make that container work, depending on what you have on top of it. You will definitely need to poke holes in the container for FAE, though. As far as I remember, that is how it's done.
Leaving the lid slightly open alone isn't going to provide adequate FAE.
edit: Actually, that container really probably won't work. It's too small. YOu could maybe do it, but it's not going to work very well. YOu need big clear rubbermaid containers.
I can't really tell how tall it is, so it's hard to say.
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vanillasnake21
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Re: Is this a good time to birth? (pictures) [Re: FlyOnTheWall]
#21918312 - 07/09/15 07:34 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Thanks for your help so far, you've done great for me. I didn't think the container is such a big deal, that's why I didn't make one, after all it's just a box with perlite nothing takes 5 min to make. I'm actually thinking if I can just use a clear plastic bag and just throw some perlite in there and make a bunch of holes, I have a huge ceiling fan so I'll just place it right under it (or near it), you think it will work?
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FlyOnTheWall
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Re: Is this a good time to birth? (pictures) [Re: vanillasnake21]
#21918320 - 07/09/15 07:39 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Ehh, maybe. There are probably people on this website who might be able to rig something up with those materials. Only people with lots of mushroom growing experience, who understand what environment mushrooms need to grow, though. I don't know how much you know about this stuff. If this is your first time, you could maybe get lucky and manage to create the perfect conditions by accident, but...
It's way easier if you just follow one of the teks for building a fruiting chamber.
Just my 2 cents, though. Good luck!!!
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vanillasnake21
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Re: Is this a good time to birth? (pictures) [Re: FlyOnTheWall]
#21918335 - 07/09/15 07:46 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Thank you, as you can see I have 3 cakes, getting a rubbermaid is a little overkill in my case. But what else is the chamber supposed to do besides keep the humidity and air circulation if you think about it. The temperature will match ambient in a few hours anyways. I haven't grown mushrooms before but i did grow grass using the bag method and it seemed to work. I really need something that's not too crazy, very low tech, and low maintanace.
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FlyOnTheWall
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Re: Is this a good time to birth? (pictures) [Re: vanillasnake21]
#21918344 - 07/09/15 07:55 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
vanillasnake21 said: what else is the chamber supposed to do besides keep the humidity and air circulation if you think about it
Unfortunately, it's not really as simple as that. Sorry, I'm not trying to rain on your parade. I just want you to get the best results (aka most mushrooms possible). You will definitely at least need some holes, though. They need a lot of fresh air to really grow.
You may still get a few mushrooms, but if you build a proper fruiting chamber you will most likely get a lot more mushrooms.
edit: I mean, it is as simple as that, but actually creating those conditions is not as simple as that. If that makes sense...
Edited by FlyOnTheWall (07/09/15 07:56 AM)
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vanillasnake21
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Re: Is this a good time to birth? (pictures) [Re: FlyOnTheWall]
#21918370 - 07/09/15 08:06 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Thanks again mate. From what I've read the incubators can be pretty simple though, my main concern was the humidity and air circulation. I still have a day till they come out of the fridge. I'll post a blog up once I get them fruited and describe the methods I used in detail. Thanks for the help everyone.
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Yerow
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Re: Is this a good time to birth? (pictures) [Re: vanillasnake21]
#21919939 - 07/09/15 01:02 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Alright, making a small FC is no problem mate, you go buy a plastic box any size you want, small or big, as long as you drill 1/4" holes on all 6 sides about 2" apart in a grid pattern.
Fill the bottom with 4-5 inches of perlite which you have rinsed, put down 3 pieces of tinfoil or the lids, place your dunked and rolled cakes on them.
Here is a more detailed guide for sgfc, you can use any size you want as long as you keep to the specs. Basic Principles of the Shotgun Fruiting Chamber (SGFC)
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vanillasnake21
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Re: Is this a good time to birth? (pictures) [Re: Yerow]
#21920922 - 07/09/15 05:15 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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That is a very nice design, the only thing I don't like about it is that it says mist 6(!) times per day. That's every 2 hours. That's insane. I mean I guess I will have to do that to get the best yield, but I'm sure we can come up with something less attention seeking. I was thinking of keeping the perlite at the top of the container, having no holes in there at all, then just elevating it an inch from the ground. The heavy CO2 will escape from the bottom and the moisture will settle on top. As far as I can tell the fresh air is not really needed for mushrooms as long as there is no CO2 in the chamber, the fresh air exchange doesn't really have to be too aggressive. Am I correct?
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FlyOnTheWall
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Re: Is this a good time to birth? (pictures) [Re: vanillasnake21]
#21921021 - 07/09/15 05:38 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Being exposed to tons of fresh air is one of the things that triggers pinning. The more fresh air, the more mushrooms. The less fresh air, less or no mushrooms.
I admire you wanting to try something new, but there is a reason people do things a specific way (building shotgun fruiting chambers). People do it that specific way, because that specific way works.
If you go with the plan you just suggested, I would say your chances of success are slim to none.
Again, not trying to rain on your parade, but you can't just make it up as you go along and hope it works out. I mean you can, but you are probably not going to be happy with your results.
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FlyOnTheWall
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Re: Is this a good time to birth? (pictures) [Re: vanillasnake21]
#21921039 - 07/09/15 05:41 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
vanillasnake21 said: fresh air exchange doesn't really have to be too aggressive. Am I correct?
It is my understanding that this not correct. You really need A LOT of fresh air in there, man. Think about how much fresh air mushrooms get in nature. They aren't sitting in a bucket with the lid cracked.
Even with all those holes in the SGFC, people need to fan them all day. Having no holes and a cracked lid will not work.
A few desperate mushrooms might grow, but you should really just build a fruiting chamber.
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spacechildo
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Re: Is this a good time to birth? (pictures) [Re: FlyOnTheWall]
#21921068 - 07/09/15 05:46 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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you dont really need to fan a sgfc, its just for a boost right after you misted but they have such great fae anyway. you dont have to mist 6 times a day either, I dont think he said that, they do just fine left alone for 12-24 hrs and even days too.
you need bottom holes for your perlite to be effective tho.
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FlyOnTheWall
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Re: Is this a good time to birth? (pictures) [Re: spacechildo]
#21921088 - 07/09/15 05:51 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yeah, good call, I don't think the misting is really necessary either. Except maybe to keep the top layer of perlite moist once in a while.
I also agree with what you said about not needing to fan. If you build your FC correctly, you can get away with not fanning.
The situation OP has laid out so far with the bucket with no holes and a cracked lid seems less than ideal, though. I don't see anyway there will be adequate FAE there.
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vanillasnake21
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Re: Is this a good time to birth? (pictures) [Re: FlyOnTheWall]
#21921409 - 07/09/15 07:11 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'm trying to understand it as much as possible, so these are just questions please don't think I'm being stubborn about it, but what exactly is the fresh air for? There are oxygen requirements and there are CO2 requirements, whether air is stale, or old I wouldn't think it matters, as long as CO2 is not there and there is enough oxygen in there. Please correct me if I'm wrong and mushrooms use some other quality of air that I haven't read about, again I just want to understand the process better instead of just doing everything blindfolded.
"Mist as often as required. Schedules may vary slightly from region to region, but 3-6 times a day is pretty common. Misting and then evaporation off the cake surface promotes pin formation." That's what he recommends.
I kinda got backed up today, so have to come with something ad hoc in few hours.
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spacechildo
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Re: Is this a good time to birth? (pictures) [Re: vanillasnake21]
#21921724 - 07/09/15 08:22 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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mycelia creates co2 and stale air is no good. you can really tell the difference between mushrooms who had great fae and those who didn't.
also fresh air keeps wet stuff from going nasty. like towels in old gym bags etc..
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vanillasnake21
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Re: Is this a good time to birth? (pictures) [Re: vanillasnake21]
#21922042 - 07/09/15 09:23 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Ok, so I had got back from home depot, got this Strelite box, made some holes in top and bottom and put my cakes in:

I dropped one cake on the floor by accident and it cracked a little, but there was no blue bruising? Maybe I took these out a little early? I'm looking at everyone elses cakes and they are like double layered with myc, mine is fully covered top and bottom but a little verm can be seen through the myc. See the closeups I posed above.
@spacechildo, point well taken. I used the link you gave me. I don't think I followed it all the way (I don't have holes on all sides and only about 2 in of perlite) but I hope it will work.
Another thing, you say I don't have to mist that often? I can just leave them for days right?
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Edited by vanillasnake21 (07/09/15 09:28 PM)
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spacechildo
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Re: Is this a good time to birth? (pictures) [Re: vanillasnake21]
#21922139 - 07/09/15 09:38 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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if built properly, yeah. although its not ideal cubes are like a weed and just wants to grow.
you should take your time to read the link tho, it wont work well the way it is now.
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vanillasnake21
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Re: Is this a good time to birth? (pictures) [Re: spacechildo]
#21922225 - 07/09/15 09:47 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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No I read the whole thing. I just can't get a huge box for 3 tiny cakes, and it took me forever to make those hoes on the top and bottom, I had to use a screwdriver. I'm just going to see how it does. I'm hearing that as long as there is evaporation the pins will grow the best.
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Yerow
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Re: Is this a good time to birth? (pictures) [Re: vanillasnake21]
#21923050 - 07/10/15 03:45 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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you should just have bought a growkit
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FlyOnTheWall
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Re: Is this a good time to birth? (pictures) [Re: Yerow]
#21923058 - 07/10/15 03:57 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I know it takes forever to poke the holes, but people aren't just saying you should do it to be a pain in your ass. They are saying it because it really does make the difference between getting a few/zero mushrooms and getting a lot of mushrooms.
The more fresh air, the better your results will be. Keep the fruiting chamber elevated with a few jars or something so air can get in the holes you have hopefully put on the bottom.
As it says in this thread, don't question it. Just do it. 
Everybody just wants to see you get a bunch of mushrooms buddy. Good luck!!!!!!
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vanillasnake21
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Re: Is this a good time to birth? (pictures) [Re: Yerow]
#21923106 - 07/10/15 04:53 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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@Yerow I should have just bought mushrooms and be done with it, i just want to try them fresh for my first trip @Fly I have nothing against putting more holes, but I can't find my soldering iron and have to use a screw driver. So it would take a really long time. But I do have holes in the bottom and the top, not really sure if the air will get through because they're only about a size of a pinky nail. What are the holes on the side for? The article says that the air is drawn in from the bottom and leaves through the top?
@edit es, i have it elevated. I jammed it sideways between a bookshelf and my table, it's hanging in there
@edit 2: i'm still planning on adjusting this thing once I find my soldering iron, this is only temporary because I had to put them somewhere...
By the way, I'm not sure if I asked already my mycelium is not staining blue is that a bad sign?
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  You came out of this world like a wave comes out from the ocean, you are not a stranger here. -Alan Watts
Edited by vanillasnake21 (07/10/15 05:10 AM)
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