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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: A thought on natural selection [Re: koraks]
    #21923165 - 07/10/15 05:30 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
Quote:

Shiithead said:
There is no evidence of evolution. Period.



That's just nonsense. I'll gladly debate the matter, but you make it clear that there is no basis for debate with you. I respect your beliefs, but I think they're short sighted and that you misunderstand the meaning of the word 'evidence' (hint: not all evidence is by definition conclusive) and that you have a limited understanding of how science works.




Why do you respect his beliefs?  Doesn't respect need to be earned?  Do you really respect something that you believe is short sighted? 

Creationism and the denial of scientific processes may deserve tolerance, it does not deserve respect.


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InvisibleShiithead
Your Huckleberry
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/05/13
Posts: 9,997
Loc: God's Flat Green Earth
Re: A thought on natural selection [Re: DieCommie]
    #21923201 - 07/10/15 05:48 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Quote:

koraks said:
Quote:

Shiithead said:
There is no evidence of evolution. Period.



That's just nonsense. I'll gladly debate the matter, but you make it clear that there is no basis for debate with you. I respect your beliefs, but I think they're short sighted and that you misunderstand the meaning of the word 'evidence' (hint: not all evidence is by definition conclusive) and that you have a limited understanding of how science works.




Why do you respect his beliefs?  Doesn't respect need to be earned?  Do you really respect something that you believe is short sighted? 

Creationism and the denial of scientific processes may deserve tolerance, it does not deserve respect.




Idk what the world is coming to but you guys are gonna love it.


--------------------

Ephesians 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Psalm 12:6
The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Hebrews 11:3
Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
Revelation 3:11
Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.


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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
Re: A thought on natural selection [Re: Shiithead]
    #21923223 - 07/10/15 06:02 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Well, I respect the fact that he has beliefs and I tolerate his views. Perhaps that's more accurate. And I'm very much aware of where we stand in terms of evidence and loose ends when it comes to evolution and for me it is clear that the concept is largely justified, even if there are aspects to it that we haven't fully figured out.


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: A thought on natural selection [Re: koraks]
    #21923230 - 07/10/15 06:05 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Sounds a little better to me.  I have no doubt that you have a good understanding of the theory.


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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
Re: A thought on natural selection [Re: DieCommie]
    #21923241 - 07/10/15 06:16 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks for helping me formulate it more accurately. I agree that it's better this way.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: A thought on natural selection [Re: DieCommie]
    #21923734 - 07/10/15 09:17 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

DieCommie said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
The engine of evolution is death before reproduction.  Our successful medical system has pretty much eliminated human physical evolution.




No, this is wrong.  The engine of evolution is mutation and selection.  Human genetic diversity is increasing faster than ever.  Advances in medicine increases human evolution by increasing our genetic diversity.  Death before reproduction evolves genetic homogeneity, because fewer gene types reproduce.  Medical treatment allows genes that would be unfit in a different environment to be fit in our environment.  These genes add genetic diversity.  In both cases evolution continues, it never stops.  The only thing that changes is the rate and type of evolution.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/11/121128132259.htm
http://www.wired.com/2007/12/humans-evolving/
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/12/071211-human-evolution.html



If every member of a species reproduces how can it evolve?  Premature death is the engine of evolution.




Mutation is how it evolves...  Every single member of a species can live past its fertility and you would still have evolution.



Mutation is what happens but without early death there won't be any success.  Successful mutations only thrive when the environment disadvantages the existing genome.  Consider bacteria.  Antibiotic resistant strains are evolving because we are killing the non-resistant ones thus creating a niche.


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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
Re: A thought on natural selection [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21923818 - 07/10/15 09:44 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Not so much early death, but a failure to breed. But I assume that's what you mean, so I'm just being pedantic.


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Invisiblemadmodder
Trip More Drink Less


Registered: 08/26/14
Posts: 15,144
Loc: fuk zone
Re: A thought on natural selection [Re: koraks]
    #21923868 - 07/10/15 10:04 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Tobacco and Alcohol Abuse seems like a pretty good form of natural selection/population control to me, I mean shit we are paying them to poison ourselves slowly and alcoholics look better than drug addicts in societies eyes, even though it is the same diesease... Alcohol abuse is a way to fuck up not only your life but the people around you, and it's a socially acceptable way to ruin your life.

And yeah, I do drink, but in moderation :smile:


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>

 
                                            [__________________________]


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: A thought on natural selection [Re: koraks]
    #21923888 - 07/10/15 10:10 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah, that's pretty much the point


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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
Re: A thought on natural selection [Re: madmodder] * 1
    #21923953 - 07/10/15 10:35 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

madmodder said:
Tobacco and Alcohol Abuse seems like a pretty good form of natural selection/population control to me



No, it isn't, and neither are many forms of cancer. Reason being that they tend to allow individuals to procreate just nicely. In addition, it's debatable whether tobacco and alcohol use play a big role in genetic selection, as these forms of addiction have been shown to have only a partial (and therefore limited) association with genetic disposition.


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OfflineSupachopped719
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/16/13
Posts: 3,311
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
Re: A thought on natural selection [Re: DieCommie]
    #21924033 - 07/10/15 11:03 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Quote:

Shiithead said:
If scientists are so confident in evolution why isn't it a law like gravity??





Gravity is not a law.  Its the theory of gravity.  You are making the mistake of considering a theory to be a guess or hypothesis.  Its not.  Scientists are effectively just as confident in the theory of evolution as they are in the theory of gravity.  Each have holes, each need work, each are among the most successful theories man has ever devised.

The "law of gravity" is an equation.  Equations can be laws because they are always true under the axioms they are defined.  Its then the theory that makes the claim that the law describes our observations within some threshold.  With this in mind you can see that theories can contain many laws.  Newton's law of gravity (his equation) is part of the theory of gravity.  Einsteins field equation is also part of the theory.




--------------------
Real Eyes Realize Real Lies.


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Offlinestratocast
Has Been
Male


Registered: 04/11/15
Posts: 345
Loc: ohio, U.S.
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
Re: A thought on natural selection [Re: Supachopped719]
    #21924092 - 07/10/15 11:22 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I'm in the camp that says we have beaten evolution. We pull all of our weak genetics right along into the future as if we aren't several organisms evolving but one organism that is the last of its kind. When genetics mutate and someone gets too far outside the norm, the other people (cells in the organism) operate on it to make it fit in.
If the phenotype is no longer affected by the genotype in cases like c-sections, evolution is only changing a behind the scenes set of genes that no longer outwardly show themselves in reality.


--------------------


Edited by stratocast (07/10/15 11:31 AM)


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InvisibleBodhi of Ankou
*alternate opinion blocks path*
Other

Registered: 06/02/09
Posts: 24,778
Loc: Soviet Canukistan Flag
Re: A thought on natural selection [Re: Shroomism]
    #21924119 - 07/10/15 11:30 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomism said:
We do have like unprecedented levels of heart diseases and cancer and shit like that, from fucking around too much..  so it's not like it's completely out of whack. All things balance out in the end. Nature finds a way..




Up until we become it succesor and take over its role through genetic manipulation.


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Offlinetryptkaloids
Learner
I'm a teapot


Registered: 02/08/15
Posts: 12,641
Loc: Exact Center
Last seen: 3 days, 3 hours
Re: A thought on natural selection [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
    #21924194 - 07/10/15 11:58 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Nothing as far as we know points towards evolution having a specific goal or a pre-set path to follow.



..I'm pretty sure the point of evolution is survival...

you guys are forgetting that it has nothing to do with survival of the fittest, strongest, or smartest. it's survival of the richest.. there's so much affecting us now there's no telling where we go from here. we havn't beaten evolution. if anything we sped it up by getting around problems faster than genetics could. and slowed it down by relying on antibiotics and heavy medicine to a point where our bodies no longer know how to handle the bacteria they need to fend off


--------------------
"Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage
Flowchart for Recommended plan of action.
Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms
Use the Damn search engine
After you know what you're doing, take a break 
Pick a book, Make some chips!
Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
 


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Offlineakira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ

Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: A thought on natural selection [Re: tryptkaloids]
    #21924216 - 07/10/15 12:07 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

worse diseases get bred through us than from any other animal. as soon as they mutate and other animal's become susceptible, we will evolved something naturally; but evolution for the creature stops at the top of the food chain. only diseases and genetic disorder are left to evolve.


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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
Re: A thought on natural selection [Re: tryptkaloids]
    #21924247 - 07/10/15 12:16 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

tryptkaloids said:
Quote:

Nothing as far as we know points towards evolution having a specific goal or a pre-set path to follow.



..I'm pretty sure the point of evolution is survival...



That's not very specific though. It doesn't determine one fixed path to follow. There are many ways to survive.

Quote:

you guys are forgetting that it has nothing to do with survival of the fittest, strongest, or smartest. it's survival of the richest..



That's just a measure of fitness really.


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Offlinetryptkaloids
Learner
I'm a teapot


Registered: 02/08/15
Posts: 12,641
Loc: Exact Center
Last seen: 3 days, 3 hours
Re: A thought on natural selection [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21924248 - 07/10/15 12:16 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

we effect our change all the time. we are getting closer to all being cyborgs every day.


--------------------
"Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage
Flowchart for Recommended plan of action.
Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms
Use the Damn search engine
After you know what you're doing, take a break 
Pick a book, Make some chips!
Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
 


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