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Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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OfflineCepheus
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A thought on natural selection
    #21917313 - 07/08/15 10:24 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Given that evolution is the current accepted model for explaining our origin, How do you think a cesarean section impacts evolution?

Survival of the fittest would and strongest would mean that any of the children that are born via C-section would not survive, neither would the mother. This is only a human phenomenon as obviously only humans have the capability to perform it...

Is this evolution?


--------------------
"I only ever hope to reach equilibrium, in Nature's matrix, in line with the meridian" ~ Jehst

:sun: "...and I know that I have to keep breathing, as tomorrow the sun will rise, who knows what the tide will bring?" :sun:

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OfflineShroomslip
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Re: A thought on natural selection [Re: Cepheus]
    #21917398 - 07/08/15 10:51 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Natural selection in humans has been pretty much thrown completely out the window with medicine of all forms. It doesn't just stop at C-sections. Antibiotics, cancer treatments, surgery, immunizations etc etc. All the things that would in the eyes of natural selection make us inferior we can pretty easily overcome. More and more treatments are constantly added as well.

Natural selection on the entire scale of species however, all of this medical manipulation is still natural selection. It's our brains that evolved to be able to do these things, that lead to us being able to extend our lives and our genetic reach. It makes us the "fittest". So yes, this is still evolution IMO.


--------------------
With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way.
I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today.
Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear.
I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear.


You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being
With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline


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OfflineCepheus
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Re: A thought on natural selection [Re: Shroomslip]
    #21917422 - 07/08/15 10:57 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

The reason I chose C-sections specifically for the topic of my argument is because they have an immediate effect on the gene pool of our race. Treating cancer is definitely different from cutting a baby out of a dying mothers womb.

I think all science that provides viable results is heading in the correct direction for the evolution of man, it's just this one particular thing that seems to go against natural law; given the current population of the planet etc.


--------------------
"I only ever hope to reach equilibrium, in Nature's matrix, in line with the meridian" ~ Jehst

:sun: "...and I know that I have to keep breathing, as tomorrow the sun will rise, who knows what the tide will bring?" :sun:

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OfflineShroomslip
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Re: A thought on natural selection [Re: Cepheus]
    #21917452 - 07/08/15 11:04 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Don't focus on the cancer then (though some can kill fairly fast). There are plenty of venomous animals or viruses that can kill in hours/days, certain surgeries are required in minutes or hours to prevent death. Those too would have an immediate effect on the gene pool. These are also things we'd consider to be natural selection but we unnaturally fix it.

It's not just C-sections that go against natural law, or at least I fail to see how it'd be any different than them at the least.


--------------------
With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way.
I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today.
Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear.
I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear.


You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being
With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline


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OfflineRedpill


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Re: A thought on natural selection [Re: Cepheus] * 2
    #21917462 - 07/08/15 11:11 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Survival of the fittest simply means survival of the organisms most adapted to their environments. That doesn't necessarily mean the strongest or most intelligent, it simply means the one who's best at surviving and reproducing. The fact that we've changed which gene pools are able to survive with stuff like C-sections and other modern medicine does not mean evolution is failing, it means evolution has taken a drastic and interesting turn in another direction, for better or worse. It's all just a matter of perspective.


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OfflineCepheus
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Re: A thought on natural selection [Re: Redpill]
    #21917552 - 07/08/15 11:51 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

And that is a perspective that is fresh, which is the aim of this thread :tongue:.

I wonder this because I am a C-section child and I have been regressing through mental trauma recently. I've kinda gotten to the point where I'm at my very earliest memories and at this bit no thoughts are in words or anything, they're just kind of like flashes.

I know it is a completely redundant thought because it didn't happen, but if I was born in another country, or my mother lived somewhere remote without ready access to a doctor, I wouldn't exist.. If you play with the idea is does have an interesting outcome on evolution :wink:.


--------------------
"I only ever hope to reach equilibrium, in Nature's matrix, in line with the meridian" ~ Jehst

:sun: "...and I know that I have to keep breathing, as tomorrow the sun will rise, who knows what the tide will bring?" :sun:

Free Spore Ring Europe
Send any spare spore prints you might have and help the distribution :grin:

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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: A thought on natural selection [Re: Cepheus]
    #21917562 - 07/08/15 11:54 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

We do have like unprecedented levels of heart diseases and cancer and shit like that, from fucking around too much..  so it's not like it's completely out of whack. All things balance out in the end. Nature finds a way..


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OfflineCepheus
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Re: A thought on natural selection [Re: Shroomism]
    #21917595 - 07/09/15 12:04 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomism said:
We do have like unprecedented levels of heart diseases and cancer and shit like that, from fucking around too much..  so it's not like it's completely out of whack. All things balance out in the end. Nature finds a way..




That was going to be my next argument :tongue:.


--------------------
"I only ever hope to reach equilibrium, in Nature's matrix, in line with the meridian" ~ Jehst

:sun: "...and I know that I have to keep breathing, as tomorrow the sun will rise, who knows what the tide will bring?" :sun:

Free Spore Ring Europe
Send any spare spore prints you might have and help the distribution :grin:

Open Source. Freedom.  GNU/Linux

Addicting is not a word.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: A thought on natural selection [Re: Cepheus] * 1
    #21917605 - 07/09/15 12:08 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Two steps ahead  :wizard:


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Offliner00tuuu123
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Re: A thought on natural selection [Re: Shroomism]
    #21917792 - 07/09/15 01:32 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

You left out hard on pills maybe your dick doesn't work for a reason.


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:kingcrankey: Please report me to a Mod for hurting your punk ass hippie feelings :flipthebird: And all time Champion thread killer.:thatsayes:


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OfflineGorlax
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Re: A thought on natural selection [Re: Cepheus]
    #21917815 - 07/09/15 01:50 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Well then premature babies and a slew of other neonatal complicated babies should not have been added to the gene pool. Problem is most normal babies come from C-sections. They just have trouble being born through the birth canal from random abnormalities. Usually caused by the mother who is already in the gene pool. It's not like a C-section produces a retarded baby. Plus many C-sections are a chosen option by the mother to prevent their pussy from becoming even larger. If anything allowing a baby with a mutation to be born alters the gene pool but so insignificantly it doesn't even matter. Mutations are drive advancements most of the time anyways.


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InvisibleShiithead
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Re: A thought on natural selection [Re: Cepheus]
    #21917820 - 07/09/15 01:54 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

There are three selections that take place on this planet.

Natural

Social

Supernatural


--------------------

Ephesians 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Psalm 12:6
The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Hebrews 11:3
Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
Revelation 3:11
Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.


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OfflineHayoxp
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Re: A thought on natural selection [Re: Shiithead]
    #21917828 - 07/09/15 01:58 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I'm TnT son, watch me explode :derp:


(into rainbows n stuffz) huhu :3


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OfflineSnowDaze
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Re: A thought on natural selection [Re: Hayoxp]
    #21917860 - 07/09/15 02:25 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Love show

Once traded a bum two dales pale ales for seasons 8 and 9

best thing I ever did


--------------------
:gd_icon: If you get confused, listen to the music play :gd_icon:

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OfflineHayoxp
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Re: A thought on natural selection [Re: SnowDaze]
    #21917890 - 07/09/15 02:38 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Lmao, shit sounded southern to me..


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Enlil is trash, needs to end himself.


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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: A thought on natural selection [Re: Cepheus] * 1
    #21917929 - 07/09/15 03:08 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Cepheus said:
I think all science that provides viable results is heading in the correct direction for the evolution of man



This is one of the fatal flaws in the thinking of many people about evolution. There is no 'correct direction' to evolution. By definition, evolution has no specific aim or purpose. It's emergent. One could, on the other hand, argue that one direction or another would be beneficial to the survival of humans from our own perspective, but that would 'borrow' our own intentions and project them on a natural process that in itself doesn't care about one or another purpose.


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OfflineCepheus
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Re: A thought on natural selection [Re: koraks]
    #21918379 - 07/09/15 08:08 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

It depends how you consider the situation. I realise that evolution does not give to shits what an individual human says, but I do believe it is possible to consider a situation with a limited bias as possible. This is literally what the scientific method is.

When Heisenberg was attempting to describe the fundamental bias imposed humans due to the collapse of the waveform when you observe an experimental result, this is exactly what he was trying to explain. It's one of the most far out there bits of physics I've encountered, it's literally a mathematic description of the fundamental uncertainty imposed by human observation.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncertainty_principle

For us to attempt to deconstruct any idea or thought about the physical universe we have to operate within the language we already understand, or at least the language that has the most empirical evidence in reality. Again this isn't perfect, but it does allow for interesting thought experiments and eventually allows for small steps in the a direction which all collective understanding of human knowledge, would say is correct.

Play with me here :wink:.


--------------------
"I only ever hope to reach equilibrium, in Nature's matrix, in line with the meridian" ~ Jehst

:sun: "...and I know that I have to keep breathing, as tomorrow the sun will rise, who knows what the tide will bring?" :sun:

Free Spore Ring Europe
Send any spare spore prints you might have and help the distribution :grin:

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Invisiblepsi
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Re: A thought on natural selection [Re: Cepheus]
    #21918411 - 07/09/15 08:19 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Evolution and natural selection are still ongoing for humans even if things don't always seem to match the popular perception of "survival of the fittest." "Survival of the fit enough" is probably a better description of the process. Also, we may like to imagine ourselves as being outside of nature, but really there is nothing unnatural about our influence on ourselves.


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InvisibleAmanita86
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Re: A thought on natural selection [Re: psi] * 1
    #21918433 - 07/09/15 08:29 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Survival of the ones that survived..


--------------------
:mushroom2:Orange clock, pencil:bouncysmoke:
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OfflineCepheus
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Re: A thought on natural selection [Re: Amanita86]
    #21918451 - 07/09/15 08:34 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Amanita86 said:
Survival of the ones that survived..




That I think sums it up quite nicely :tongue:.


--------------------
"I only ever hope to reach equilibrium, in Nature's matrix, in line with the meridian" ~ Jehst

:sun: "...and I know that I have to keep breathing, as tomorrow the sun will rise, who knows what the tide will bring?" :sun:

Free Spore Ring Europe
Send any spare spore prints you might have and help the distribution :grin:

Open Source. Freedom.  GNU/Linux

Addicting is not a word.


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