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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Right to work vs Closed Shop [Re: r00tuuu123]
#21916654 - 07/08/15 07:55 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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If 100 people want different pay or working conditions they are free to demand it or quit. If its is 100 people the employer will take notice and make a tough decision. This is how it should be. Without the right to work the employees will hold the employer hostage to whatever demands they have, reasonable or not.
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Imperfect Iam
^means imperfect,not I'm perfect


Registered: 03/05/13
Posts: 7,237
Loc: center of the universe
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Re: Right to work vs Closed Shop [Re: MagicMush123]
#21916669 - 07/08/15 07:58 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Right to work is a wolf in sheeps clothing, why should someone be able to enjoy all the benefits of being a union member without having to pay there fair share?
Koods is completely right with his comment, and it is a shame unions are in the decline, just ask anyone who has worked in a non right to work state vs working in a right to work state which one is better.
The middle class is disappearing cause of this anti-worker agenda.
Think about it, who is about the only people to stand up against big corporations? They can't do this adequatly with freeloaders!
-------------------- All you touch, and all you see, is all your life will ever be- Pink Floyd Life is what happens while you're busy making other plans- John Lennon
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Quote:
Imperfect Iam said: Right to work is a wolf in sheeps clothing, why should someone be able to enjoy all the benefits of being a union member without having to pay there fair share?
Because I don't want to be in the union. I don't want to strike, I have a right to keep working whether you want me to strike or not. You can keep your "benefits", they aren't that great anyway.
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Imperfect Iam
^means imperfect,not I'm perfect


Registered: 03/05/13
Posts: 7,237
Loc: center of the universe
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Re: Right to work vs Closed Shop [Re: DieCommie]
#21916700 - 07/08/15 08:04 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Well then don't join the union, simple
-------------------- All you touch, and all you see, is all your life will ever be- Pink Floyd Life is what happens while you're busy making other plans- John Lennon
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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In a non right to work state that would mean you don't work. Fuck that shit.
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Quote:
Imperfect Iam said: Well then don't join the union, simple 
I don't. That is the right I enjoy if I'm in a right to work state. The employer and I can still exchange labor for pay no matter what you and your union buddies want to do. If the union doesn't want to give me their "benefits" they don't have to. If I don't have that right then I am not allowed to keep working even if I want to if your union decides to strike.
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r00tuuu123
Now I'm just really piseed



Registered: 04/20/12
Posts: 8,507
Loc: I'll be there in a minute
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
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Re: Right to work vs Closed Shop [Re: DieCommie]
#21916736 - 07/08/15 08:11 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yea I guess you're right we should all work for minimum wage and donate the rest of our pay to the shareholders. Oh what Bob you got hurt sorry to hear that we can put you on house nigger duty till you can pick cotton again. Seriously wtf we should be prospering rather than buying shit from china,pakistan and what's left of Rusia If those assholes wanna work for free let em, I do know this though even if we had a strong manufacturing base we would lose a war with china or rusia Fuck even a war with Sicily or columbia.
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Please report me to a Mod for hurting your punk ass hippie feelings And all time Champion thread killer.
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Right to work vs Closed Shop [Re: r00tuuu123]
#21916745 - 07/08/15 08:14 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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What does this have to do with the right to work?
You want your manufacturing base back and yet you want unions to have more power? 
I work in manufacturing and my job will likely be outsourced in my lifetime. I don't want unions anywhere near my fab.
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DTCharlieB
yum yum fish.


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1,027
Loc: Yak attack
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
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Re: Right to work vs Closed Shop [Re: zappaisgod] 1
#21916751 - 07/08/15 08:14 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: If you fall off a scaffold that was not defective due to negligence by your employer you have no recompense for negligence and all your med bills plus pay will be made from worker's compensation insurance. If you are working on a scaffold you would probably be stunned by how much workmen's comp costs your employer. For my category it is 15% of every gross employee dollar. That equals the combined employer and employee contribution to the FICA scam
Workera comp is insane. I own a business with 2 other guys and as owners we aren't required to have workers comp. But when we had two other guys working with us we paid close to 14 grand a year for their workers comp. And we only work 8 to 9 months out of the year. We do roofing and siding mainly so the chance for getting hurt is there, but we always emphasize safety and luckily no one has been hurt. Since then the two guys we had working for us have gone on to other jobs. Between that and other taxes we pay a crap load and then people worder why getting a window replaced or anything else related to that cost so much. It's not us that's making a fortune I guarantee you that. Also paid my workers about 10 dollars an hour starting out and usually loose money off of them for a few months until they get the swing of things. These guys worked hard and we moved them up to 15 an hour then they started slacking and complained they didn't get paid enough all while we are losing a shit load on them because they got their raises and decided to not do anything. And then people want to raise the minimum wage to 15 an hour? That would kill many businesses. We're doing alot better now with just me and my other partner doing all the work, it's hard but, christ, unless I want to hire under the table it's hard to find someone that works hard and efficiently to make the business any money.
I'm rambling but back on topic. I've seen the most lazy ass people make a lot of money while doing nothing under union jobs. Also I've seen the exact opposite and save a hard workers job because they got hurt on the job and would otherwise be fired if not for unions.
So many situations vary wildly with these two things it's hard to have a strong opinion one way or another.
-------------------- I like lasagna.
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MagicMush123
moon person



Registered: 01/22/15
Posts: 5,101
Loc: Chinada
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Re: Right to work vs Closed Shop [Re: DieCommie]
#21916765 - 07/08/15 08:18 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said:
Quote:
MagicMush123 said: Your a typical ignorant American
Ignorant of what? Your perspective? Calling somebody ignorant when you disagree is a sign of a frustrated and ineffective debater.
I'm in no way frustrated and I never claimed to be a debater
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Rustifer
prestige worldwide



Registered: 04/10/05
Posts: 7,071
Loc: Central Texas
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Re: Right to work vs Closed Shop [Re: DTCharlieB]
#21916770 - 07/08/15 08:19 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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reading this makes me very happy i've been smart enough to figure out how to make a job for myself. Fuck all this shit.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Right to work vs Closed Shop [Re: DTCharlieB]
#21916785 - 07/08/15 08:21 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I always paid a reasonable wage based on what you could do and what I could charge. If I doubled their pay there would be no jobs. I am not a welfare service. I have to compete and sometimes that is against illegal fucktools who warehouse a bunch of cunts in an apartment and then truck them to the site. Then if one of them gets hurt they sue the shit out of the asshole homeowner who went cheap. Good. Fuck them all.
In all my years I had one comp claim by an employee and that was because he shot himself with a nail gun. Fucking idiot.
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MagicMush123
moon person



Registered: 01/22/15
Posts: 5,101
Loc: Chinada
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Re: Right to work vs Closed Shop [Re: zappaisgod]
#21916809 - 07/08/15 08:26 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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So that's why you don't like unions you are a business owner ( not claiming your a asshole boss) but usually it depends what side of the fence your on... Business owners generally dislike unions, because it gives theyre workers rights, and you have to treat them fairly
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MoxyOx
Grazin'

Registered: 10/08/10
Posts: 1,439
Loc:
Last seen: 1 month, 20 days
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Re: Right to work vs Closed Shop [Re: MagicMush123]
#21916894 - 07/08/15 08:39 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Is that what you think? Fresh. You're real green to the ways of the world aren't ya.
-------------------- No one behind, no one ahead. The path the ancients cleared has closed. And the other path, everyone's path, easy and wide, goes nowhere. I am alone and find my way.
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MagicMush123
moon person



Registered: 01/22/15
Posts: 5,101
Loc: Chinada
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Re: Right to work vs Closed Shop [Re: MoxyOx]
#21916911 - 07/08/15 08:42 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Go get a union job, then msg me back
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Right to work vs Closed Shop [Re: MagicMush123]
#21916922 - 07/08/15 08:44 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
MagicMush123 said: So that's why you don't like unions you are a business owner ( not claiming your a asshole boss) but usually it depends what side of the fence your on... Business owners generally dislike unions, because it gives theyre workers rights, and you have to treat them fairly
No. Even as a worker before I had a business I couldn't stand those lazy fucks. I would not have joined a union for anything. They were just so clearly scammers.
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MagicMush123
moon person



Registered: 01/22/15
Posts: 5,101
Loc: Chinada
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Re: Right to work vs Closed Shop [Re: zappaisgod]
#21916933 - 07/08/15 08:46 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Ya scammers that fight for a good wage, retirement, dental, medical etc and when you get fired they fight for your job back... Ya real assholes
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r00tuuu123
Now I'm just really piseed



Registered: 04/20/12
Posts: 8,507
Loc: I'll be there in a minute
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
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Re: Right to work vs Closed Shop [Re: zappaisgod]
#21916937 - 07/08/15 08:46 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said: What does this have to do with the right to work?
You want your manufacturing base back and yet you want unions to have more power? 
I work in manufacturing and my job will likely be outsourced in my lifetime. I don't want unions anywhere near my fab.
1 questions,statements Where does the metal you do fabrication with and 2 what is your hourly rate?Quote:
zappaisgod said: I always paid a reasonable wage based on what you could do and what I could charge. If I doubled their pay there would be no jobs. I am not a welfare service. I have to compete and sometimes that is against illegal fucktools who warehouse a bunch of cunts in an apartment and then truck them to the site. Then if one of them gets hurt they sue the shit out of the asshole homeowner who went cheap. Good. Fuck them all.
In all my years I had one comp claim by an employee and that was because he shot himself with a nail gun. Fucking idiot.
I aplaud your Ideals but on the other side of the coin you also need protection for your workers to make a living wage. I know a ton of guys that do trades some are at union jobs and get paid comensurate to their work and others who do the exact same work get paid considerably less. So how do you determine who gets a raise that is in line with their work ethic?
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Please report me to a Mod for hurting your punk ass hippie feelings And all time Champion thread killer.
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MagicMush123
moon person



Registered: 01/22/15
Posts: 5,101
Loc: Chinada
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Re: Right to work vs Closed Shop [Re: r00tuuu123]
#21916983 - 07/08/15 08:53 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Exactly.. I work in the beer industry and I make roughly double that my non union brewers make, for the same work. When all the companies could afford to pay my wage
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Right to work vs Closed Shop [Re: r00tuuu123]
#21916995 - 07/08/15 08:57 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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What the market will bear. Union carpenters around here are protected by the government with nonsense prevailing wage laws for projects. I do residential construction and I have to compete with other contractors to get jobs. It's still good money just not 100,000 a year money. Even the illegals that people pick up at the train station get the equivalent of about 20 an hour. Everybody who has to pay for union projects, and that is most often the taxpayer, is getting hosed. Badly. They are overpaid prima donna slackers. I know. I've seen them in action. They don't get shit done and will wait all day for a union plumber if they need a plumbing valve turned off.
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