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Offlinecambodia
Female

Registered: 07/08/15
Posts: 4
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
beginners dilemma
    #21915215 - 07/08/15 02:06 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Hi guys, so im new to the website and new to growing mushrooms. in fact im looking forward to my first grow in about 2 months. till then im just planning and doing research. So before someone says go look through the search bar... i have spent almost every waking moment for the last week going through any and every post relating to BRF cakes and casing and bulk substrate and dunk&roll and teks. After gaining the basic knowledge i decided to make an account and finally ask my big question (and a few smaller ones)

I just still cant decide whether i want to start out with BRF cakes or  bulk substrate. My main goal is to get as much out of this first grow as possible. Im hoping for at least 150 grams dry and i am fully aware that this is really ambitious for a first timer. Im hoping to make up for the lack of experience with a large amount of substrate or cakes to get the 150g.

I have two options i have been searching and thinking about. Regardless of which option i pick i will buy pre sterilized and pasteurized stuff bc i am incapable of sterilizing things for myself for the next year or so. no way around it. with that said here are the 2 options i have been seriously considering-->

Option 1: Buy 36 1/2 pint pre sterilized jars and inoculate them with Cambodians. After 100% colonization, birth them and dunk them for 12-24 hours. after dunking put casing on the bottom on a 105 qrt clear tub and put all 36 cakes in the tub and begin fruiting.

option 2: Buy 2 pounds of rye seeds, inoculate them with cambodians as well. after 100% colonization take the 2 pounds of rye and use them to spawn 10 pounds of pre pasturized compost (dehydrated horse manure, exotic zoo manure, organic coconut coir, vermiculite, and gypsum). After hopefully the substrate colonizes fully, take it out of the micro filter bag and put it on top of the casing layer in a 105 qrt. tub and fruit.

Originally i was really set on the BRF cakes but then what ever i read, everyone says that bulk substrate gives ALOT better yields and as i said my ambitious goal is atleast 150g dry.

So i guess after that long post my questions are:

1. Which option would give me the most yield?

2. Even if the 2x1 pound bags of rye are 100% colonized im afraid that when im trying to spawn them into the 10 pound bulk substrate in the micro filter bag, it will get contaminated and ruin everything, is this likely to happen?

3.if i were to go with the brf cake option can i just put casing on the bottom of the fruiting chamber and put the cakes on top of it and start fruiting right away? or do i need to case on top of the cake itself and keep everything in the dark for a week to colonize the hills and sides of the casing before fruiting?

4. Does the casing have to touch the cakes or substrate to help them grow better, or does it just keep the air in the tub moist so that even if its not touching a cake it will still benefit growth?

5.Absolute darkness during colonization? i have read that its not actually necessary. Im just wondering bc im planning on keeping everything during inoculation in a small disinfected closet but i will have to go in and out of the closet during the day to grab other stuff, so will short periods of light hurt the colonization process in any way?

6.If using bulk substrate is there no way around damaging mycelium before fruiting? like since i would spawn the substrate in a micro filter bag after colonization i will have to take it out of the bag and spread it out on top of casing in a 105 qrt. tub. so i guess my question is, does everyone who uses bulk substrate crumble their 100% colonized substrate to put it in the FC? and if so how long should i keep the fruiting chamber in the dark for the mycelium to recover before fruiting? or do i even have to let mycelium recover before fruiting?

7.will 2pound rye and 10 pound bulk substrate be enough for 150g dry? how many pounds of each would u recommend? I am aware that there are alot of variables and everyone cant yield the same amount etc etc but i would really like an estimate of how much substrate i should use to get 150g dry. take into consideration that i might screw stuff up and not get an incredible yield so more substrate better?

lastly i have taken the cost of everything into consideration so when you are providing estimates for substrate or anything dont worry about that.

those are all of my questions for now. so please let me know what you guys think and which option you guys think might be better. Also any additional tips and advice for a first timer is very much so appreciated.
thanks in advance :smile:


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OfflineTheMustardTiger
Male

Registered: 08/19/13
Posts: 4,700
Loc: Sunnyvale Trailer Park
Last seen: 6 years, 5 months
Re: beginners dilemma [Re: cambodia]
    #21915228 - 07/08/15 02:09 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

:goodluck:


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Invisiblenatedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat
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Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
Trusted Cultivator
Re: beginners dilemma [Re: cambodia]
    #21915468 - 07/08/15 03:10 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Dude that is a lot of questions for one post. Did you try using the search engine at all? I'll try to make this short and sweet:
1. bulk
2. fully colonized spawn WILL NOT CONTAM when exposed to open air. We spawn to bulk in open air.
3. You would want to crumble and case if you use BRF cakes. I have never personally done this but to my understanding you put a little casing on the underside and case the top and wait for it to colonize 30 percent and fruit.
4. Casing material definitely needs to touch cakes.
5. Myc benefits from light during ALL phases of life, even colonization.
6. Yes break up your grain spawn before MIXING into bulk substrate.
7. I don't know why you are aiming specifically for 150 grams dry, but two lbs of spawn to ten pounds of bulk is sufficient


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Offlinecambodia
Female

Registered: 07/08/15
Posts: 4
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
Re: beginners dilemma [Re: natedawgnow]
    #21915538 - 07/08/15 03:24 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

i figured alot of questions in one post would be cleaner than alot of questions in alot of posts. alright thanks, bulk sounds like the way to go. i will continue to read up on the bulk methods and ask if i have more questions (which is very likely)


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OfflineTheMustardTiger
Male

Registered: 08/19/13
Posts: 4,700
Loc: Sunnyvale Trailer Park
Last seen: 6 years, 5 months
Re: beginners dilemma [Re: cambodia]
    #21915560 - 07/08/15 03:28 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Don't get caught selling them, since it's pretty clear that's what you want to do. A beginner who needs the upfront knowledge to produce 5 dry ounces right off the bat? :pokerawe:


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Invisiblenatedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat
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Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
Trusted Cultivator
Re: beginners dilemma [Re: cambodia]
    #21915578 - 07/08/15 03:31 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

The search engine on this sight is spot on if you search specifics and filter it down to answers by trusted cultivators, not to say other info isn't pertinent, just that if you are new it's best to use the info from trusted cultivators to weed out the bad info.
I learned everything I know by browsing the forums before I even made a profile. Any question you could ask has been asked a thousand times for sure.


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Invisiblenatedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat
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Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
Trusted Cultivator
Re: beginners dilemma [Re: TheMustardTiger]
    #21915584 - 07/08/15 03:32 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

TheMustardTiger said:
Don't get caught selling them, since it's pretty clear that's what you want to do. A beginner who needs the upfront knowledge to produce 5 dry ounces right off the bat? :pokerawe:



He could be going to a music festival and wants enough to trade for whatever he needs. 5 oz is not that much in retrospect


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OfflineTheMustardTiger
Male

Registered: 08/19/13
Posts: 4,700
Loc: Sunnyvale Trailer Park
Last seen: 6 years, 5 months
Re: beginners dilemma [Re: natedawgnow]
    #21915608 - 07/08/15 03:38 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Hope your right. Hate to see people go down that path.


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Invisiblejesuisravi
The Old Noob
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/24/15
Posts: 260
Loc: Midwest USA Flag
Re: beginners dilemma [Re: cambodia]
    #21915632 - 07/08/15 03:45 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I have done bulk--it was years ago now--and, yes, it is the way to go to accomplish your ends. And it sounds like, thanks to the thorough think-through you have given this project, it sounds like you can be successful. I am not the one to anwer your questions with authority--there are plenty here with more knowledge and experience who will probably do that by and by--but I commend you on the way you are going about this. Chicken-wthout-a-headedness won't get you far in this stuff.

As someone has already said, if you are thinking of making a business of this, know that it is a good way to get the state to pay your rent for you for a couple of years--maybe longer if one of your customers is idiotic enough.


--------------------
Most of my beliefs I acquired from my father and from John Wayne, and anything that wasn't ultra tough and ultra cool was to me ultra embarrassing. In fact, I lived in a state of near continuous embarrassment, never measuring up to the ridiculous standards I had accepted without question, applied to a framework of expectations neither I nor anyone else could meet.--J C Amberchele

almost nothing important that ever happens to you happens because you engineer it. Destiny has no beeper; destiny always leans trenchcoated out of an alley with some sort of 'psst' that you usually can't even hear because you're in such a rush to or from something important you've tried to engineer. ”
― David Foster Wallace, Infinite Jest


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Offlinecambodia
Female

Registered: 07/08/15
Posts: 4
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
Re: beginners dilemma [Re: natedawgnow]
    #21915636 - 07/08/15 03:46 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

im a she but i guess there is no way u could have guessed tht. im not planning on selling. im just really ambitious and would rather do one big grow rather than multiple smaller grows thats all. if i do successfully get a good yield im giving half of them to my friends and properly storing the rest for later use.
Thanks for the help guys


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Invisiblejesuisravi
The Old Noob
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/24/15
Posts: 260
Loc: Midwest USA Flag
Re: beginners dilemma [Re: cambodia]
    #21924136 - 07/10/15 11:36 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

cambodia said:
im a she but i guess there is no way u could have guessed tht. im not planning on selling. im just really ambitious and would rather do one big grow rather than multiple smaller grows thats all. if i do successfully get a good yield im giving half of them to my friends and properly storing the rest for later use.
Thanks for the help guys




I have no doubt you will accomplish your agenda. You might want to be careful giving mushrooms away however--the fewer who know what you are up to in this context, the better.


--------------------
Most of my beliefs I acquired from my father and from John Wayne, and anything that wasn't ultra tough and ultra cool was to me ultra embarrassing. In fact, I lived in a state of near continuous embarrassment, never measuring up to the ridiculous standards I had accepted without question, applied to a framework of expectations neither I nor anyone else could meet.--J C Amberchele

almost nothing important that ever happens to you happens because you engineer it. Destiny has no beeper; destiny always leans trenchcoated out of an alley with some sort of 'psst' that you usually can't even hear because you're in such a rush to or from something important you've tried to engineer. ”
― David Foster Wallace, Infinite Jest


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Offlinecambodia
Female

Registered: 07/08/15
Posts: 4
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
Re: beginners dilemma [Re: jesuisravi]
    #21933322 - 07/12/15 12:31 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

jesuisravi said:
Quote:

cambodia said:
im a she but i guess there is no way u could have guessed tht. im not planning on selling. im just really ambitious and would rather do one big grow rather than multiple smaller grows thats all. if i do successfully get a good yield im giving half of them to my friends and properly storing the rest for later use.
Thanks for the help guys




I have no doubt you will accomplish your agenda. You might want to be careful giving mushrooms away however--the fewer who know what you are up to in this context, the better.




^^ you are very correct. thank god i only have a few close friends and thts it. but even then. i figured i will first grow without any ones knowledge, then harvest and dry. after cleaning up all the grow equipment and getting rid of any evidence i will powder up the shrooms and put them in capsules so tht they are alot easier to hide and give. i figured it would be a little less risky if i am not growing when im giving stuff away. i heard about ppl getting caught bc they left vermiculite and other grow related supplies laying around in open view.


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OfflineFreeWorldOrder
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/24/13
Posts: 2,002
Loc: Indiana, USA Flag
Last seen: 8 days, 11 hours
Re: beginners dilemma [Re: cambodia]
    #21933661 - 07/12/15 02:04 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

You should be alright then... :thumbup:

It's just some of the people on here sincerely care about other members and are just trying to look out for your best interest is all.

Welcome to the Shroomery. Some of us have become a tight-knit group. You seem like a cool chick and you should fit right in....

Good luck on your grow!


--------------------
"They who can give up essential liberty, to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

Lets Grow Mushrooms Videos
PastyWhyte's Easy Agar TEK
Agar's Liquid Inoculant TEK


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OfflineOPB
Wanderer

Registered: 05/30/15
Posts: 198
Last seen: 2 years, 10 days
Re: beginners dilemma [Re: FreeWorldOrder]
    #21933808 - 07/12/15 02:50 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Answer to questions 1-7: Don't try out for the Olympics before you learn to swim.

How bad do you really need these mushrooms? How awful is it going to be when a contamination breaks out and destroys this entire project with no back up plan? I am sorry if I sound harsh but it's never a good idea to put everything you've got into one massive attempt at something you have never done before. Also how will you inoculate the grain? I assume you are getting spore syringes which are super risky for a substrate with so much nutrient content. You seem to have learned a lot online, which is wonderful, I am just trying to keep you from learning a much harder lesson in real life.

If you are as wise as you are smart you will cut this plan down to a reasonable size and get your 150g over a number of successful and likely unsuccessful grows.


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"Wasn't that fun"


Edited by OPB (07/12/15 02:52 PM)


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OfflineFreeWorldOrder
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/24/13
Posts: 2,002
Loc: Indiana, USA Flag
Last seen: 8 days, 11 hours
Re: beginners dilemma [Re: OPB]
    #21934560 - 07/12/15 06:11 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

.... or she could start out with agar right out of the gate... :shrug:

if the syringes are decent & proper sterile procedure is followed then MS to grains can work.

But I agree, I wouldn't put all of my eggs in one basket either.

At least save some spore solution for backup (it doesn't take much to inoculate grain jars anyways. And agar only takes one drop.) Could also start out doing the Pf-tek to learn a little before advancing on to bulk...

The pf-tek is good for beginners because it gives some understanding how they grow, etc. It is also easier to observe IMO.


--------------------
"They who can give up essential liberty, to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

Lets Grow Mushrooms Videos
PastyWhyte's Easy Agar TEK
Agar's Liquid Inoculant TEK


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OfflineOPB
Wanderer

Registered: 05/30/15
Posts: 198
Last seen: 2 years, 10 days
Re: beginners dilemma [Re: FreeWorldOrder]
    #21934574 - 07/12/15 06:15 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

FreeWorldOrder said:
.... or she could start out with agar right out of the gate... :shrug:

if the syringes are decent & proper sterile procedure is followed then MS to grains can work.

But I agree, I wouldn't put all of my eggs in one basket either.

At least save some spore solution for backup. Or start out doing the Pf-tek...




I've had ms grain work so I agree that it can be successful, but I only tried it because I had extra spore solution laying around and I'm not paying a premium for presterilized grain... that's all I am saying.

Agar out the gate would be great but can be tedious and problematic as well.


--------------------
"Wasn't that fun"


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
Re: beginners dilemma [Re: OPB]
    #21934932 - 07/12/15 08:08 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Putting all your eggs in one big bulk grow for a beginner, IMHO, is risky.  If it contams, you lose the whole thing.  I think you have a better chance with less risk with something like this that is much more likely to NOT contam and you have a lot of bottles going if you lose a few.  With a bulk tub it's all or nothing and believe me, for a  new person on your first grow, NOTHING is a definite possibility.  I would try to get a clean LC using agar first then us MUDA bottles.  The most important part is getting a good clean inoculant and using vendor spore syringes for that big a grow is no sure thing at all. 

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21168958#21168958

All I'm saying is a lot can go wrong with a bulk grow.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
Smurf real estate agent
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Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: beginners dilemma [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #21934934 - 07/12/15 08:10 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

PROtip: go to the pharmacy and tell them you're a heroin addict for free clean needles.


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Invisiblepiratez
Unflamable
Male

Registered: 04/21/14
Posts: 209
Loc: i dont knoe
Re: beginners dilemma [Re: bodhisatta]
    #21934983 - 07/12/15 08:32 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

:whathesaid:

Protip indeed


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OfflineShroominMe
Stranger

Registered: 05/03/15
Posts: 525
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
Re: beginners dilemma [Re: cambodia]
    #21935556 - 07/12/15 11:15 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

cambodia said:
I just still cant decide whether i want to start out with BRF cakes or  bulk substrate. My main goal is to get as much out of this first grow as possible.



I think that's actually everybody's goal.

Quote:

Im hoping for at least 150 grams dry



That is unrealistic.  Hope for a successful grow.

Quote:

i am fully aware that this is really ambitious for a first timer. Im hoping to make up for the lack of experience with a large amount of substrate or cakes to get the 150g.



Chances are you'll just get a higher quantity of non-success.  I don't mean to be a downer, but pretty much everyone has to go through a learning curve.

Quote:

I have two options i have been searching and thinking about.



If you want the highest possibility of success, try both!

Quote:

Regardless of which option i pick i will buy pre sterilized and pasteurized stuff bc i am incapable of sterilizing things for myself for the next year or so. no way around it.



You can't spend $50 on a PC?

Quote:

1. Which option would give me the most yield?



Bulk

Quote:

2. Even if the 2x1 pound bags of rye are 100% colonized im afraid that when im trying to spawn them into the 10 pound bulk substrate in the micro filter bag, it will get contaminated and ruin everything, is this likely to happen?



Once 100% colonized myc is pretty contam resistant.

Quote:

3.if i were to go with the brf cake option can i just put casing on the bottom of the fruiting chamber and put the cakes on top of it and start fruiting right away? or do i need to case on top of the cake itself and keep everything in the dark for a week to colonize the hills and sides of the casing before fruiting?



Wait

Quote:

4. Does the casing have to touch the cakes or substrate to help them grow better, or does it just keep the air in the tub moist so that even if its not touching a cake it will still benefit growth?



The tek calls for fine hydrated verm touching - on - the cakes.

Quote:

5.Absolute darkness during colonization?



No

Quote:

so i guess my question is, does everyone who uses bulk substrate crumble their 100% colonized substrate to put it in the FC?



Yes

Quote:

and if so how long should i keep the fruiting chamber in the dark for the mycelium to recover before fruiting?



About 3 days but YMMV


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