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InvisibleAsante
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The Day The Dollar Dies?
    #21913796 - 07/08/15 07:50 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

The Day The Dollar Dies.. what is it going to be like?


Investors be like:



Rastafarians be like:



Light a joint, grab a beer, get a coffee or tea and let's imagine for a second that the international monetary system will seize up beyond immediate repair, in the near future.

Where do you stand with this hypothetical scenario?


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Offlinefapjack
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Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: Asante] * 2
    #21913886 - 07/08/15 08:20 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Why is your name green?


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: Asante] * 1
    #21913896 - 07/08/15 08:23 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Its been red for so long, green felt better. Its not mod green though, I'm still an admin.

EDIT: Now its pink see? Gotta love the site features


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Edited by Asante (07/08/15 08:27 AM)


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OfflinePatlal
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Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: Asante]
    #21913908 - 07/08/15 08:26 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Why doe everybody think the Dollar will collapse?

It's backed by hundreds  of million working people...


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: Patlal]
    #21913917 - 07/08/15 08:29 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

The dollar is backed by being the worlds reserve currency and the world is having second thoughts about that.


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OfflineLived_1978-2043
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Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: Asante]
    #21913932 - 07/08/15 08:33 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I figure bartering would come into common practice.


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Offlinefapjack
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Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: Asante]
    #21913937 - 07/08/15 08:34 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

The Euro doesn't seem to be working out too well.  Not to say the US dollar is the best option, but greed always seems to ruin most things finance related.


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OfflinetheRealrollforever
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Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: fapjack] * 1
    #21913963 - 07/08/15 08:42 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Pokemon!


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sunshine said:
The order has to be secret and no one is sure.


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: fapjack]
    #21913964 - 07/08/15 08:43 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

The unification of Europe is based on the greed and aggression of our powers that be. Either the Euro trips the Dollar or the Dollar trips the Euro, but both are very wobbly. Most people don't realize just how bad it is. A considerable crisis could happen literally at any time.

Its good to have some wealth away from any currency (for instance in gold or silver) and to have at least a months supply of food and drink for the family, as well as candles and a stove etc so you won't sit in the dark if the gas en electric go down and you have to camp out in your own home.


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: theRealrollforever]
    #21913976 - 07/08/15 08:47 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

theRealrollforever said:
Pokemon!





luvdisc


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Offlinefapjack
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Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: Asante] * 2
    #21914031 - 07/08/15 09:02 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I still think ramen, bullets, and bibles are the best investments.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: Asante] * 1
    #21914056 - 07/08/15 09:08 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

It figures a user of the rapidly swooning euro would point fingers at the dollar. Or do you still use guilders?

The reason the dollar will never drop to zero or be rejected is because we have so many things you can buy with dollars. We have a country full of goods and we will ship them to you. For a price. People know that if they want a big night on the town and their country is a little backward about that, they can come to vegas, pick out the hookers they want, select their drug of choice, gamble, see the shows the sights etc. Or move here in a 20 acre estate with your own helipad, butlers, maids, Jacuzzis, and fleet of luxury cars. But it takes dollars to get the goodies.

Or maybe you want your private plane, yacht, ocean liner, or weapons? We sell mega loads of weapons, pick your tanks, aircraft, bombs, guns, radar, submarines, even satellites. Our leaders will even send troops to take care of your dirty work, just slip the required millions to the Clinton foundation and miraculously it happens.

No, the world is in no hurry to dump the dollar. The euro I can see taking a dive, actually its been diving and the dollar has been rising. Take that!


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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InvisibleAsante
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Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21914167 - 07/08/15 09:38 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
:crankey:





We are not enemies, competitors. You shouldnt think in those terms, if you do then the powers that be, win.

The Euro started out at tyhe same exchange rate 1:1 as the Dollar, and it has always remained above it at 1.1-1.5x as high.

But guess what? Both are falling. Sometimes the dollasr falls faster sometimes the euro falls faster. Wile E Coyote can tell you: every canyon has its bottom and you never land in the water.




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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: Asante]
    #21914176 - 07/08/15 09:42 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
The dollar is backed by being the worlds reserve currency and the world is having second thoughts about that.



That is irrelevant to the strength of the dollar.  You have it exactly backwards.  It is the world's resere currency because it is strong.  It is not strong because it is the world's reserve currency.  Say, how's that Euro thing working out?  Bwahahahaha.


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21914231 - 07/08/15 09:54 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

That was the old situation, the new situatrion is that its strong BECAUSE its propped up. Its nothing but fluff holding it up, fluff and well, the wars your government start against whichever small country wants out of the dollar.

We're both fucked.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: Asante]
    #21914233 - 07/08/15 09:54 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
The Day The Dollar Dies.. what is it going to be like?


Investors be like:








and it was all because the US insists on maintaining unsustainable social programs


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: Asante]
    #21914262 - 07/08/15 10:00 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
The Euro started out at tyhe same exchange rate 1:1 as the Dollar, and it has always remained above it at 1.1-1.5x as high.





Quote:

Early growth
Further information: International status and usage of the euro

After dropping to an interday low of $0.8296 on 26 October 2001, and a brief crash to $0.8115 on 15 January 2002, the euro soon recovered from its early slump. Its value last closed below $1.00 on 6 November 2002 ($0.9971), and increased rapidly from there. It peaked at $1.35 in 2004, and reached its highest value versus the U.S. dollar at $1.5916 on 14 July 2008.[32] As its values increased against the pound sterling in the late-2000s, peaking at 97.73p on 31 December 2008, its international usage grew rapidly.[33] The euro grew in importance steadily, with its share of foreign exchange reserves rising from nearly 18% in 1999 to 25% in 2003 - while the dollar share fell by an equivalent margin.[34] Alan Greenspan in 2007 said the eurozone had profited from the euro's rise and claimed it was perfectly conceivable that it could trade equally or become more important than the US dollar in the future.[35]




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InvisibleAsante
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Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #21914274 - 07/08/15 10:02 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Thats their version but its not the whole story. It also has to do with the corporations selling out America and outsourcing every single thing they could possibly outsource - sack all their American workers and rip off Asians even harder so that their millions can multiply.

If Bill Gates is in a stadium full of homeless people, on average everybody in there is a millionaire. Still, almost no one derives any sort of benefit of that.

Your middle class is being destroyed! Not by the poor, by the RICH, one in eight people is on food stamps. Keep stomping those below you into the ground, there are plenty of people above you doing the same with you, and people above that doing the same with them.

The poor are getting poorer and the rich are getting richer.

The rich in their greed are grazing the field faster than it grows.

THAT is the problem.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: Asante] * 1
    #21914286 - 07/08/15 10:08 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
Thats their version but its not the whole story. It also has to do with the corporations selling out America and outsourcing every single thing they could possibly outsource - sack all their American workers and rip off Asians even harder so that their millions can multiply.




ah... so the democrat policies of 'free trade' that opened the doors for large corporations to outsource manufacturing and allow cheap labor in to compete with higher paid skilled labor which keeps the rates of wages low



Quote:

Your middle class is being destroyed! Not by the poor, by the RICH
The rich in their greed are grazing the field faster than it grows.

THAT is the problem.






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InvisibleAsante
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Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #21914294 - 07/08/15 10:10 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

You should start your own news network :awesomenod:


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: Asante]
    #21914316 - 07/08/15 10:15 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

bill and hillary clinton were so poor when they left the whitehouse that they had
to steal the furniture and keys from the keyboards in order to pay for the fuel
for their private jet

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/report-al-gores-net-worth-at-200-million/


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #21914347 - 07/08/15 10:22 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

He is right, asante. However you do have a good point about the rich ruining it for everyone else. Not just the rich but the super rich. The average guy with a net worth of $1 million is not one of those. He is just a middle class laborer but has a better job than most or is a good investor. The ones ruining the world are those with so much money they can never spend it all but their greed is insatiable.

In usa as in Europe bribery is what gets the laws passed that favor big companies, ruin the environment and pollute the food supply as well as taking away our liberties bit by bit.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: Asante]
    #21914361 - 07/08/15 10:26 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
The dollar is backed by being the worlds reserve currency and the world is having second thoughts about that.




It's all relative.  What will they replace it with?  What currency is more stable, reliable and trusted?  Currencies compete and the dollar is the strongest competitor.

It is nowhere near failing.  Not even close.  On the contrary, the competing currencies (Euro, Yuan, Yen) are less stable and reliable.

Any idiot that thinks we're going back to some kind of precious metals "standard" has no idea whatsoever how the global financial system works.

There will be debt "resets" in the future both at the country and global level … that doesn't mean a collapse.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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Invisiblepsi
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Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21914385 - 07/08/15 10:35 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
The reason the dollar will never drop to zero or be rejected is because we have so many things you can buy with dollars.



So we know for sure that the currency will never ever fail, because currently goods can be bought with it?


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: psi]
    #21914402 - 07/08/15 10:42 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

That point's hard to argue against isnt it?


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Invisiblepsi
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Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: Asante] * 1
    #21914414 - 07/08/15 10:45 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

If only there were some counterexample of a currency that once was usable to buy goods, but failed later on. I'm stumped.


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Onlineqman
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Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #21914419 - 07/08/15 10:48 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

Asante said:
The dollar is backed by being the worlds reserve currency and the world is having second thoughts about that.




It's all relative.  What will they replace it with?  What currency is more stable, reliable and trusted?  Currencies compete and the dollar is the strongest competitor.

It is nowhere near failing.  Not even close.  On the contrary, the competing currencies (Euro, Yuan, Yen) are less stable and reliable.

Any idiot that thinks we're going back to some kind of precious metals "standard" has no idea whatsoever how the global financial system works.

There will be debt "resets" in the future both at the country and global level … that doesn't mean a collapse.




Well said, but why would someone who thinks a gold standard is a option in the future "has no idea whatsoever how the global financial system works"?


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: qman]
    #21914463 - 07/08/15 11:02 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

Asante said:
The dollar is backed by being the worlds reserve currency and the world is having second thoughts about that.




It's all relative.  What will they replace it with?  What currency is more stable, reliable and trusted?  Currencies compete and the dollar is the strongest competitor.

It is nowhere near failing.  Not even close.  On the contrary, the competing currencies (Euro, Yuan, Yen) are less stable and reliable.

Any idiot that thinks we're going back to some kind of precious metals "standard" has no idea whatsoever how the global financial system works.

There will be debt "resets" in the future both at the country and global level … that doesn't mean a collapse.




Well said, but why would someone who thinks a gold standard is a option in the future "has no idea whatsoever how the global financial system works"?




Because currencies compete.  Gold and silver and precious stones will always remain a way or alternative to compact wealth but in terms of them REPLACING the electro-sparko currency trading systems of the global financial system, it just isn't going to happen.  People will be able to buy gold and silver and do what they want with it, but it just isn't practical to be fork lifting bars of metal from one room to another every second to account for some global reserve system based on these bars of melted rocks. 

The time of gold and silver as a primary exchange of compacted wealth came and went.  It's a niche now, but not the main enchilada.  There simply isn't enough gold or silver on the planet to be used as a primary exchange source and if it was, the cost of goods would go absolutely parabolic and give the wealthy complete control of everything.  Thank GOD we have moved beyond the constrictions of a limited precious metals money system.  It's just a niche currency now, that's all.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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Onlineqman
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Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: KauaiOrca] * 1
    #21914484 - 07/08/15 11:08 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

Asante said:
The dollar is backed by being the worlds reserve currency and the world is having second thoughts about that.




It's all relative.  What will they replace it with?  What currency is more stable, reliable and trusted?  Currencies compete and the dollar is the strongest competitor.

It is nowhere near failing.  Not even close.  On the contrary, the competing currencies (Euro, Yuan, Yen) are less stable and reliable.

Any idiot that thinks we're going back to some kind of precious metals "standard" has no idea whatsoever how the global financial system works.

There will be debt "resets" in the future both at the country and global level … that doesn't mean a collapse.




Well said, but why would someone who thinks a gold standard is a option in the future "has no idea whatsoever how the global financial system works"?




Because currencies compete.  Gold and silver and precious stones will always remain a way or alternative to compact wealth but in terms of them REPLACING the electro-sparko currency trading systems of the global financial system, it just isn't going to happen.  People will be able to buy gold and silver and do what they want with it, but it just isn't practical to be fork lifting bars of metal from one room to another every second to account for some global reserve system based on these bars of melted rocks. 

The time of gold and silver as a primary exchange of compacted wealth came and went.  It's a niche now, but not the main enchilada.  There simply isn't enough gold or silver on the planet to be used as a primary exchange source and if it was, the cost of goods would go absolutely parabolic and give the wealthy complete control of everything.  Thank GOD we have moved beyond the constrictions of a limited precious metals money system.  It's just a niche currency now, that's all.




"There simply isn't enough gold or silver on the planet to be used as a primary exchange source"

Yes there is, it doesn't matter how much metal there is, it's at what price.

I don't think you really understand how a gold standard works, it's not about moving around metal all day long. :facepalm:


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #21914490 - 07/08/15 11:11 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Yet gold and silver are in big demand. Imagine that! When inflation hits from all the qe they are doing then pm's and other commodities shoot up in price. What happens to the dollars or worse yet the euros in your pocket? Sorry, you lose. Gold may hit $5000+

Bitcoins are moving up as we speak. Here is a free tip, buy btc and sell as soon as they double in price. You may quote me later on that but of course no one will unless it takes a long time to go up. And when it does, I will be laughed at for saying just double your money when they skyrocket maybe 4 or 5 times todays value.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: qman]
    #21914495 - 07/08/15 11:14 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:


"There simply isn't enough gold or silver on the planet to be used as a primary exchange source"

Yes there is, it doesn't matter how much metal there is, it's at what price.

I don't think you really understand how a gold standard works, it's not about moving around metal all day long. :facepalm:




If we went to a global gold standard, the global monetary supply would most likely shrink dramatically causing a global depression unlike anything the planet has ever seen. 

Gold and silver will remain a COMPETING currency and that's about it.  Why would we want to peg the value of the dollar to the value of shiny rocks vaulted in some giant underground caves?  What is the point?  What problem would that solve?

The global derivatives market RIGHT NOW is estimated at over 850 TRILLION dollars.  How would a global gold reserve deal with that?


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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Onlineqman
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Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #21914506 - 07/08/15 11:17 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

qman said:


"There simply isn't enough gold or silver on the planet to be used as a primary exchange source"

Yes there is, it doesn't matter how much metal there is, it's at what price.

I don't think you really understand how a gold standard works, it's not about moving around metal all day long. :facepalm:




If we went to a global gold standard, the global monetary supply would most likely shrink dramatically causing a global depression unlike anything the planet has ever seen. 

Gold and silver will remain a COMPETING currency and that's about it.  Why would we want to peg the value of the dollar to the value of shiny rocks vaulted in some giant underground caves?  What is the point?  What problem would that solve?

The global derivatives market RIGHT NOW is estimated at over 850 TRILLION dollars.  How would a global gold reserve deal with that?




When you can't devalue your currency against another paper currency, there's only one alternative left, devalue relative to gold. Remember 1934?


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21914509 - 07/08/15 11:18 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Yet gold and silver are in big demand. Imagine that! When inflation hits from all the qe they are doing then pm's and other commodities shoot up in price. What happens to the dollars or worse yet the euros in your pocket? Sorry, you lose. Gold may hit $5000+

Bitcoins are moving up as we speak. Here is a free tip, buy btc and sell as soon as they double in price. You may quote me later on that but of course no one will unless it takes a long time to go up. And when it does, I will be laughed at for saying just double your money when they skyrocket maybe 4 or 5 times todays value.




Gold and silver in great demand?  Then why has the price dropped 30% when other markets are going up?  More in demand than shares of Apple, Netflix, Tesla and Facebook?  More in demand than treasuries?  Come on, get serious.  Gold is a relatively small percentage of the portfolios of the people with real money.  Gold and silver have been steadily selling off since July 2011 when people finally stopped buying into the end of the world nonsense.  The prices will keep falling because there are much better investments.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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Offlinesaenchai
Stranger
Registered: 10/05/14
Posts: 238
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: qman]
    #21914513 - 07/08/15 11:19 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

They will use the economic collapse as an excuse to start agenda 21 same way they used 9 11 to stop recognizing our constitutional rights. This country is going to turn into a literal prison. What good is wealth retention without freedom to do shit or risk of getting your savings confiscated? If I don't get out in time, I've made peace with being depopulated. I will try to take one or two officer phaggots out with me who are enforcing martial law and trying to force me into a FEMA camp. Nwo will fail in the long run I believe but its gonna be messy. They are finally going to try to go full 1984. Let's see how the populace reacts


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Onlineqman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 9 minutes, 42 seconds
Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #21914522 - 07/08/15 11:21 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Yet gold and silver are in big demand. Imagine that! When inflation hits from all the qe they are doing then pm's and other commodities shoot up in price. What happens to the dollars or worse yet the euros in your pocket? Sorry, you lose. Gold may hit $5000+

Bitcoins are moving up as we speak. Here is a free tip, buy btc and sell as soon as they double in price. You may quote me later on that but of course no one will unless it takes a long time to go up. And when it does, I will be laughed at for saying just double your money when they skyrocket maybe 4 or 5 times todays value.




Gold and silver in great demand?  Then why has the price dropped 30% when other markets are going up?  More in demand than shares of Apple, Netflix, Tesla and Facebook?  More in demand than treasuries?  Come on, get serious.  Gold is a relatively small percentage of the portfolios of the people with real money.  Gold and silver have been steadily selling off since July 2011 when people finally stopped buying into the end of the world nonsense.  The prices will keep falling because there are much better investments.




The price fell because there's not much need to buy an inflationary hedge (gold) when all developed economies are experiencing deflation for the most part.


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: qman]
    #21914526 - 07/08/15 11:22 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

qman said:


"There simply isn't enough gold or silver on the planet to be used as a primary exchange source"

Yes there is, it doesn't matter how much metal there is, it's at what price.

I don't think you really understand how a gold standard works, it's not about moving around metal all day long. :facepalm:




If we went to a global gold standard, the global monetary supply would most likely shrink dramatically causing a global depression unlike anything the planet has ever seen. 

Gold and silver will remain a COMPETING currency and that's about it.  Why would we want to peg the value of the dollar to the value of shiny rocks vaulted in some giant underground caves?  What is the point?  What problem would that solve?

The global derivatives market RIGHT NOW is estimated at over 850 TRILLION dollars.  How would a global gold reserve deal with that?




When you can't devalue your currency against another paper currency, there's only one alternative left, devalue relative to gold. Remember 1934?




Global currencies reset every MILLISECOND and are valued according to buyers and sellers.  It is an incredibly fair system.  Same is true with gold/silver.  Supply, demand constantly tell us what dollars, yuan, euros, pesos, yen, etc including gold/silver is worth.  If you want to just buy and sell everything in gold and silver, you can.  Why force everyone else to do it?  What problem does that solve?  If our government does stupid things with our currency, then traders will punish it … IMMEDIATELY.  It is far too easy for a few really big players to control gold/silver prices which is why it is way too dangerous to peg the dollar or the global reserve currency to it.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: qman]
    #21914533 - 07/08/15 11:24 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Yet gold and silver are in big demand. Imagine that! When inflation hits from all the qe they are doing then pm's and other commodities shoot up in price. What happens to the dollars or worse yet the euros in your pocket? Sorry, you lose. Gold may hit $5000+

Bitcoins are moving up as we speak. Here is a free tip, buy btc and sell as soon as they double in price. You may quote me later on that but of course no one will unless it takes a long time to go up. And when it does, I will be laughed at for saying just double your money when they skyrocket maybe 4 or 5 times todays value.




Gold and silver in great demand?  Then why has the price dropped 30% when other markets are going up?  More in demand than shares of Apple, Netflix, Tesla and Facebook?  More in demand than treasuries?  Come on, get serious.  Gold is a relatively small percentage of the portfolios of the people with real money.  Gold and silver have been steadily selling off since July 2011 when people finally stopped buying into the end of the world nonsense.  The prices will keep falling because there are much better investments.




The price fell because there's not much need to buy an inflationary hedge (gold) when all developed economies are experiencing deflation for the most part.




The price fell because of a big bubble that was created by fear popped.  Given all the money (dollars, euros, yen, yuan) pumped into the global economy, traditional gold pricing theory would tell us that gold prices would be going through the roof, but they aren't … they are falling.  Why?  Because gold needs FEAR to go up.  This is why so many people that buy into the bullets, rations and bunkers thinking dig gold.  It's now about fear of collapse.  There are many, many ways to hedge currency concerns.  Gold is just one choice.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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Onlineqman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 9 minutes, 42 seconds
Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #21914538 - 07/08/15 11:27 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

qman said:


"There simply isn't enough gold or silver on the planet to be used as a primary exchange source"

Yes there is, it doesn't matter how much metal there is, it's at what price.

I don't think you really understand how a gold standard works, it's not about moving around metal all day long. :facepalm:




If we went to a global gold standard, the global monetary supply would most likely shrink dramatically causing a global depression unlike anything the planet has ever seen. 

Gold and silver will remain a COMPETING currency and that's about it.  Why would we want to peg the value of the dollar to the value of shiny rocks vaulted in some giant underground caves?  What is the point?  What problem would that solve?

The global derivatives market RIGHT NOW is estimated at over 850 TRILLION dollars.  How would a global gold reserve deal with that?




When you can't devalue your currency against another paper currency, there's only one alternative left, devalue relative to gold. Remember 1934?




Global currencies reset every MILLISECOND and are valued according to buyers and sellers.  It is an incredibly fair system.  Same is true with gold/silver.  Supply, demand constantly tell us what dollars, yuan, euros, pesos, yen, etc including gold/silver is worth.  If you want to just buy and sell everything in gold and silver, you can.  Why force everyone else to do it?  What problem does that solve?  If our government does stupid things with our currency, then traders will punish it … IMMEDIATELY.  It is far too easy for a few really big players to control gold/silver prices which is why it is way too dangerous to peg the dollar or the global reserve currency to it.




"It is an incredibly fair system"

In theory it should be, but what if China and others manipulate its currency lower, not so far anymore!

"way to dangerous to peg the dollar or global currency to it"

Gold is nothing more than a very powerful tool for central bankers if needed, there's nothing dangerous about it.


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: qman]
    #21914552 - 07/08/15 11:31 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:

"It is an incredibly fair system"

In theory it should be, but what if China and others manipulate its currency lower, not so far anymore!

"way to dangerous to peg the dollar or global currency to it"

Gold is nothing more than a very powerful tool for central bankers if needed, there's nothing dangerous about it.




So you don't think investors moving billions around in currencies aren't watching China like a hawk?  Don't they pay a price for that manipulation?  That's why trading systems are fair.  It allows buyers and sellers to come to terms with pricing.  Pegging the dollar to gold will create enormous demand for gold/silver and that will drive the price of it way up.  Of what value to anyone would that be?


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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Onlineqman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 9 minutes, 42 seconds
Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #21914553 - 07/08/15 11:31 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Yet gold and silver are in big demand. Imagine that! When inflation hits from all the qe they are doing then pm's and other commodities shoot up in price. What happens to the dollars or worse yet the euros in your pocket? Sorry, you lose. Gold may hit $5000+

Bitcoins are moving up as we speak. Here is a free tip, buy btc and sell as soon as they double in price. You may quote me later on that but of course no one will unless it takes a long time to go up. And when it does, I will be laughed at for saying just double your money when they skyrocket maybe 4 or 5 times todays value.




Gold and silver in great demand?  Then why has the price dropped 30% when other markets are going up?  More in demand than shares of Apple, Netflix, Tesla and Facebook?  More in demand than treasuries?  Come on, get serious.  Gold is a relatively small percentage of the portfolios of the people with real money.  Gold and silver have been steadily selling off since July 2011 when people finally stopped buying into the end of the world nonsense.  The prices will keep falling because there are much better investments.




The price fell because there's not much need to buy an inflationary hedge (gold) when all developed economies are experiencing deflation for the most part.




The price fell because of a big bubble that was created by fear popped.  Given all the money (dollars, euros, yen, yuan) pumped into the global economy, traditional gold pricing theory would tell us that gold prices would be going through the roof, but they aren't … they are falling.  Why?  Because gold needs FEAR to go up.  This is why so many people that buy into the bullets, rations and bunkers thinking dig gold.  It's now about fear of collapse.  There are many, many ways to hedge currency concerns.  Gold is just one choice.




"Because gold needs FEAR to go up"

You showing ignorance now, gold needs inflation, nothing more.

"all the money pumped into the global system"

That's a myth my friend, please explain to us how the Fed buying $2.5 trillion of MBS's is pumping money into the system, it isn't. 

It's not about buying a few bonds by CB's, it's about money velocity which continues to decline.


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: qman]
    #21914568 - 07/08/15 11:34 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:


"Because gold needs FEAR to go up"

You showing ignorance now, gold needs inflation, nothing more.

"all the money pumped into the global system"

That's a myth my friend, please explain to us how the Fed buying $2.5 trillion of MBS's is pumping money into the system, it isn't. 

It's not about buying a few bonds by CB's, it's about money velocity which continues to decline.




Are you suggesting that equities, bonds and real estate prices have not been majorly inflated by the Fed's ZIRP policy along with Japan and europe playing too?  Seriously?


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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Onlinekoods
Ribbit
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Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,057
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Last seen: 8 minutes, 49 seconds
Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: qman]
    #21914569 - 07/08/15 11:34 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Let's turn useful industrial commodities into currency. brilliant. :facepalm:


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Invisiblepaperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: qman]
    #21914571 - 07/08/15 11:34 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

There's a reason rich libertarians such as the Koch brothers support commodity based currency, they can literally do nothing and make money.

We already went through this as a country and it's a major reason we moved away from the gold standard.

http://www.rense.com/general94/hidden.htm

http://www.businessinsider.com/americas-robber-barons-2012-3


--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: koods]
    #21914574 - 07/08/15 11:35 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Let's turn useful industrial commodities into currency. brilliant. :facepalm:




EXACTLY!  It's absolutely the second dumbest possible idea.  The first being to peg it to food commodities that then get warehoused and vaulted for speculation.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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Onlineqman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
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Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #21914576 - 07/08/15 11:36 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

qman said:

"It is an incredibly fair system"

In theory it should be, but what if China and others manipulate its currency lower, not so far anymore!

"way to dangerous to peg the dollar or global currency to it"

Gold is nothing more than a very powerful tool for central bankers if needed, there's nothing dangerous about it.




So you don't think investors moving billions around in currencies aren't watching China like a hawk?  Don't they pay a price for that manipulation?  That's why trading systems are fair.  It allows buyers and sellers to come to terms with pricing.  Pegging the dollar to gold will create enormous demand for gold/silver and that will drive the price of it way up.  Of what value to anyone would that be?




The traders all know that the US and China are cooperating with this manipulation, it gets the rich even richer, they love it.

Why do you think China owns trillions of US dollars/debt?  It's not for investment, it's for a weak Yuan.

I'm not saying pegging the UD dollar to gold is the right thing to do today, but it's a tool that might be used down the road.

When the US has $30 trillion of debt someday, what would you purpose?  Pay it off.  :lol:


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Onlineqman
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Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #21914589 - 07/08/15 11:39 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

qman said:


"Because gold needs FEAR to go up"

You showing ignorance now, gold needs inflation, nothing more.

"all the money pumped into the global system"

That's a myth my friend, please explain to us how the Fed buying $2.5 trillion of MBS's is pumping money into the system, it isn't. 

It's not about buying a few bonds by CB's, it's about money velocity which continues to decline.




Are you suggesting that equities, bonds and real estate prices have not been majorly inflated by the Fed's ZIRP policy along with Japan and europe playing too?  Seriously?




Low interest rates and buying back shares isn't inflationary, extending credit into the general economy is, why do you think most GDP growth rates are 1-2% today?


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Onlineqman
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Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: koods]
    #21914625 - 07/08/15 11:50 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Let's turn useful industrial commodities into currency. brilliant. :facepalm:




There's no perfect monetary system, a gold standard is by no means a magic solution, again it's a tool that can used by central bankers. 

The current fiat based debt system has plenty of issues as well, or do you just ignore them?


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: qman]
    #21914658 - 07/08/15 11:57 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

paperbackwriter said:
There's a reason rich libertarians such as the Koch brothers support commodity based currency, they can literally do nothing and make money.

We already went through this as a country and it's a major reason we moved away from the gold standard.

http://www.rense.com/general94/hidden.htm

http://www.businessinsider.com/americas-robber-barons-2012-3




BINGO!  The best thing that could happen would be for gold/silver prices to fall a lot further … Vaulting bars of gold and silver in giant  underground caves does exactly what for the global economy?
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

qman said:


"Because gold needs FEAR to go up"

You showing ignorance now, gold needs inflation, nothing more.

"all the money pumped into the global system"

That's a myth my friend, please explain to us how the Fed buying $2.5 trillion of MBS's is pumping money into the system, it isn't. 

It's not about buying a few bonds by CB's, it's about money velocity which continues to decline.




Are you suggesting that equities, bonds and real estate prices have not been majorly inflated by the Fed's ZIRP policy along with Japan and europe playing too?  Seriously?




Low interest rates and buying back shares isn't inflationary, extending credit into the general economy is, why do you think most GDP growth rates are 1-2% today?




GDP growth rates both domestically and globally falling is very complicated.  It has to do with baby boomers aging/retiring, the destruction of enormous equity for the middle class in 08/09, the race to the bottom in terms of globalization accessing the world's cheapest labor markets and, of course more and more countries competing at a higher quality level. 

Much of the spending power that was concentrated in the middle class from the 50's through the mid OO's was destroyed or transferred to a smaller wealthier class that simply spends money differently. 

Wealth is being created now through investments and not through increases in production and consumption.  The global transfer of wealth over the last 6 years has been nothing short of extraordinary. 

No easy answers.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


Edited by KauaiOrca (07/08/15 12:15 PM)


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InvisibleStonehenge
Alt Center
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #21915105 - 07/08/15 01:36 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

There is plenty enough gold to float the worlds economy. Just make it worth 100k per oz, then you are set. Bitcoins too could do the job, they may hit 100k. The only limiting factor is how fast they can mine the metals. BTW, gold is not "rocks".


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21915124 - 07/08/15 01:40 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
There is plenty enough gold to float the worlds economy. Just make it worth 100k per oz, then you are set. Bitcoins too could do the job, they may hit 100k. The only limiting factor is how fast they can mine the metals. BTW, gold is not "rocks".




Bitcoins are even more of a fringe currency than gold.  Bitcoins aren't backed up by anything and are super volatile. 

Go to a gold mine and take a look around and tell me that gold isn't a rock.  The reasons why we place so much value on gold as an ornamental desirable and it was stamped into coins is absolutely fascinating and a conversation worthy of a different thread. 

We are moving toward a cashless society which is 180 degrees away from a gold based society.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


Edited by KauaiOrca (07/08/15 01:42 PM)


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: Asante]
    #21915157 - 07/08/15 01:51 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
Thats their version but its not the whole story. It also has to do with the corporations selling out America and outsourcing every single thing they could possibly outsource - sack all their American workers and rip off Asians even harder so that their millions can multiply.

If Bill Gates is in a stadium full of homeless people, on average everybody in there is a millionaire. Still, almost no one derives any sort of benefit of that.

Your middle class is being destroyed! Not by the poor, by the RICH, one in eight people is on food stamps. Keep stomping those below you into the ground, there are plenty of people above you doing the same with you, and people above that doing the same with them.

The poor are getting poorer and the rich are getting richer.

The rich in their greed are grazing the field faster than it grows.

THAT is the problem.




What a relentless crock of shit.  Bill Gates isn't hurting anybody by being rich and has in fact gotten rich by providing a useful service that the middle class values. He has enriched the middle class.  Unlike you.  Welfare programs create poor people through enabling them to do nothing of value.  Wages are being depressed because we let tens of millions of illegal immigrants into a shadow economy.  They also kill people.  When unemployment insurance benefits run out people are magically more likely to get jobs.  Hmm.  How odd. 

Work ethic.  It is disappearing.  How's your job going?


--------------------


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Invisiblepaperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #21915170 - 07/08/15 01:53 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

Stonehenge said:
There is plenty enough gold to float the worlds economy. Just make it worth 100k per oz, then you are set. Bitcoins too could do the job, they may hit 100k. The only limiting factor is how fast they can mine the metals. BTW, gold is not "rocks".




Bitcoins are even more of a fringe currency than gold.  Bitcoins aren't backed up by anything and are super volatile. 

Go to a gold mine and take a look around and tell me that gold isn't a rock.  The reasons why we place so much value on gold as an ornamental desirable and it was stamped into coins is absolutely fascinating and a conversation worthy of a different thread. 

We are moving toward a cashless society which is 180 degrees away from a gold based society.




Gold is used quite a lot today in electronics.  Not that I disagree with the general notion of your post but it does have value today beyond just being ornamental.


--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21915173 - 07/08/15 01:55 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Asante said:
Thats their version but its not the whole story. It also has to do with the corporations selling out America and outsourcing every single thing they could possibly outsource - sack all their American workers and rip off Asians even harder so that their millions can multiply.

If Bill Gates is in a stadium full of homeless people, on average everybody in there is a millionaire. Still, almost no one derives any sort of benefit of that.

Your middle class is being destroyed! Not by the poor, by the RICH, one in eight people is on food stamps. Keep stomping those below you into the ground, there are plenty of people above you doing the same with you, and people above that doing the same with them.

The poor are getting poorer and the rich are getting richer.

The rich in their greed are grazing the field faster than it grows.

THAT is the problem.




What a relentless crock of shit.  Bill Gates isn't hurting anybody by being rich and has in fact gotten rich by providing a useful service that the middle class values. He has enriched the middle class.  Unlike you.  Welfare programs create poor people through enabling them to do nothing of value.  Wages are being depressed because we let tens of millions of illegal immigrants into a shadow economy.  They also kill people.  When unemployment insurance benefits run out people are magically more likely to get jobs.  Hmm.  How odd. 

Work ethic.  It is disappearing.  How's your job going?




The compacting of more and more wealth into fewer and fewer hands is a major cause of decreased spending power for the middle class. 

Bill Gates has, surprising to most people, made more money as an investor than he made as the creator of Microsoft.  The return on capital has skyrocketed over the last 3 decades while the return on labor has gone down.

That's a horrible trend for a democratic society.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: paperbackwriter]
    #21915176 - 07/08/15 01:57 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

paperbackwriter said:
Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

Stonehenge said:
There is plenty enough gold to float the worlds economy. Just make it worth 100k per oz, then you are set. Bitcoins too could do the job, they may hit 100k. The only limiting factor is how fast they can mine the metals. BTW, gold is not "rocks".




Bitcoins are even more of a fringe currency than gold.  Bitcoins aren't backed up by anything and are super volatile. 

Go to a gold mine and take a look around and tell me that gold isn't a rock.  The reasons why we place so much value on gold as an ornamental desirable and it was stamped into coins is absolutely fascinating and a conversation worthy of a different thread. 

We are moving toward a cashless society which is 180 degrees away from a gold based society.




Gold is used quite a lot today in electronics.  Not that I disagree with the general notion of your post but it does have value today beyond just being ornamental.




The overwhelming majority of gold is vaulted or in coins and not used for any ornamental or industrial purpose.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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OfflinePatlal
You ask too many questions
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Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: paperbackwriter]
    #21915184 - 07/08/15 01:59 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Alright. I think it's time for people to understand a very important point that everybody seem to get wrong...

The rich aren't bad. The problem is that the poor are too poor to afford the cost of living. That's the problem. The fact that someone hass billions in his bank account doesn't matter. There's money for everybody. In fact, you create your own wealth by adding value to things. The problem is, the poor are given tasks that do create value, they just aren't paid fairly.

Now, I can already see the argument "shit work for shit pay" coming up.... Ask yourself this, would you like to ring up all your groceries by yourself or do you prefer to let the cashier do it for you? Most would say that they do their part by shopping in that store and that the store can fuck off for making me work on top of making them a profit. So the guy packing your bags does in fact create good value for you. Why not give hime a salary that won't force him to depend on your tax money?


--------------------


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Invisiblepaperbackwriter
Edward Lear


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Posts: 1,888
Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21915186 - 07/08/15 02:00 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah orca, I meant that it has 'value' beyond ornamental.  I realize that we have far more gold secured away in vaults or in jewelry today than we need for electronics.  But that could change at some point.

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Asante said:
Thats their version but its not the whole story. It also has to do with the corporations selling out America and outsourcing every single thing they could possibly outsource - sack all their American workers and rip off Asians even harder so that their millions can multiply.

If Bill Gates is in a stadium full of homeless people, on average everybody in there is a millionaire. Still, almost no one derives any sort of benefit of that.

Your middle class is being destroyed! Not by the poor, by the RICH, one in eight people is on food stamps. Keep stomping those below you into the ground, there are plenty of people above you doing the same with you, and people above that doing the same with them.

The poor are getting poorer and the rich are getting richer.

The rich in their greed are grazing the field faster than it grows.

THAT is the problem.




What a relentless crock of shit.  Bill Gates isn't hurting anybody by being rich and has in fact gotten rich by providing a useful service that the middle class values. He has enriched the middle class.  Unlike you.  Welfare programs create poor people through enabling them to do nothing of value.  Wages are being depressed because we let tens of millions of illegal immigrants into a shadow economy.  They also kill people.  When unemployment insurance benefits run out people are magically more likely to get jobs.  Hmm.  How odd. 

Work ethic.  It is disappearing.  How's your job going?




He's right that it's being destroyed by the rich.

http://www.times-standard.com/general-news/20110201/my-word-decades-of-trickle-down-economics-destroyed-the-american-middle-class

I don't know why he pegs Bill Gates though.  Bill seems like an alright guy to me :laugh:


--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley


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Invisiblepaperbackwriter
Edward Lear


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Posts: 1,888
Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: Patlal]
    #21915210 - 07/08/15 02:05 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
Alright. I think it's time for people to understand a very important point that everybody seem to get wrong...

The rich aren't bad. The problem is that the poor are too poor to afford the cost of living. That's the problem. The fact that someone hass billions in his bank account doesn't matter. There's money for everybody. In fact, you create your own wealth by adding value to things. The problem is, the poor are given tasks that do create value, they just aren't paid fairly.

Now, I can already see the argument "shit work for shit pay" coming up.... Ask yourself this, would you like to ring up all your groceries by yourself or do you prefer to let the cashier do it for you? Most would say that they do their part by shopping in that store and that the store can fuck off for making me work on top of making them a profit. So the guy packing your bags does in fact create good value for you. Why not give hime a salary that won't force him to depend on your tax money?




The most honest answer I've heard to these questions is "because I don't want someone doing shit job X making as much money as me" or "I work harder than X so I should get paid more."

In other words, a lot of people believe that paying other people more will make their wages less by comparison and they don't want to be at the bottom of the class ladder.

Of course there's all the economic responses but automation is the only one that holds water (i.e. cost of goods is not determined by cost of wages but by competitive markets but higher wages does encourage businesses to invest more in automation).


--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: paperbackwriter] * 1
    #21915221 - 07/08/15 02:07 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I have made an extremely successful life from trickle down economics.  I do not build houses for government subsidized bums.  I build houses and do renovations for people with more money than me.  My wife makes real estate commissions on houses she sells to people with more money than us.  Trickle down be very good to me.


--------------------


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InvisibleStonehenge
Alt Center
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Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
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Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #21915229 - 07/08/15 02:09 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

If you think gold is a rock then water must be a rock too since it come from underground.

Gates is a dirtbag and ms products are crap.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


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Invisiblepaperbackwriter
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Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21915234 - 07/08/15 02:10 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I have made an extremely successful life from trickle down economics.  I do not build houses for government subsidized bums.  I build houses and do renovations for people with more money than me.  My wife makes real estate commissions on houses she sells to people with more money than us.  Trickle down be very good to me.




I spent a lot of years making meals for people that make more money than me too.  I know a lot of other people also serve the rich.  But there's only so many people with more money.  Eventually you hit the bottom.

Pyramid schemes work great the closer you are to the top.


--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley


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InvisibleAsante
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Posts: 86,796
Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21915241 - 07/08/15 02:12 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

*sneaks up to the front door*
*rings the doorbell*
*when its opened he shouts*

"Thousand Dollar Silver!"
*runs off in the night*


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: Asante]
    #21915285 - 07/08/15 02:24 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
*sneaks up to the front door*
*rings the doorbell*
*when its opened he shouts*

"Thousand Dollar Silver!"
*runs off in the night*



Knock yourself out if you think speculating in commodities is a path to wealth


--------------------


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InvisibleAsante
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Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,796
Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21915525 - 07/08/15 03:21 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I don't think so, but I got me some silver nonetheless.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: Asante]
    #21918153 - 07/09/15 06:02 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

The entire case for precious metals and this whole collapsing dollar is based on intense pessimism and avoiding the reality that there is no currency out there anywhere near ready to replace the dollar. 

Currencies compete.  Which currency is stronger than the dollar?


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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Onlineqman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 9 minutes, 42 seconds
Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #21918313 - 07/09/15 07:35 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
The entire case for precious metals and this whole collapsing dollar is based on intense pessimism and avoiding the reality that there is no currency out there anywhere near ready to replace the dollar. 

Currencies compete.  Which currency is stronger than the dollar?




It's not about the dollar collapsing, it's about the potential for the dollar to lose value relative to inflation, thus the hedge against it.

"Which currency is stronger than the dollar?"

Depends on your time frame, the dollar has been down significantly since 1999 against all major currencies.


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OfflineAlmond Flour
...get off my lawn!
Male


Registered: 12/26/08
Posts: 11,340
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Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: Asante]
    #21918326 - 07/09/15 07:43 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

What are you talking about. The dollar is doing almost as well as the Euro. We are bouncing back. Welcome to 2015! Whats it like back there in 2007 :datass:


--------------------
Hippies and Liberals love Pope Francis, so why dont I quote him for you guys. "There is NO SALVATION outside the Catholic Church" :morningtoke:


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: qman]
    #21918372 - 07/09/15 08:06 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
The entire case for precious metals and this whole collapsing dollar is based on intense pessimism and avoiding the reality that there is no currency out there anywhere near ready to replace the dollar. 

Currencies compete.  Which currency is stronger than the dollar?




It's not about the dollar collapsing, it's about the potential for the dollar to lose value relative to inflation, thus the hedge against it.

"Which currency is stronger than the dollar?"

Depends on your time frame, the dollar has been down significantly since 1999 against all major currencies.




I just pulled a 10 year chart on both the dollar vs the Yen and Euro and the dollar is holding its own.  Where are you getting your data from?

The dollar is the strongest major currency on the planet.  It has strengthened against metals steadily now for 3 years.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: qman]
    #21918386 - 07/09/15 08:11 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:

It's not about the dollar collapsing, it's about the potential for the dollar to lose value relative to inflation, thus the hedge against it.






Given the amount of global stimulus over the last 5 years, Gold should be selling for $5,000 an ounce, but it isn't because it is no longer the hedge against inflation that it used to be.  There are much better hedges than precious metals.

Metals are all about end of the world, total collapse fear.  Hedging against inflation can be done in 100 different ways that don't give you exposure to the easily manipulated precious metals markets which is why so many big buyers have opted out.  Metals have lost over 1/3 of their value in a period of global stimulus that is beyond anything our planet has ever experienced.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


Edited by KauaiOrca (07/09/15 08:12 AM)


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Onlineqman
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Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #21918418 - 07/09/15 08:21 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
The entire case for precious metals and this whole collapsing dollar is based on intense pessimism and avoiding the reality that there is no currency out there anywhere near ready to replace the dollar. 

Currencies compete.  Which currency is stronger than the dollar?




It's not about the dollar collapsing, it's about the potential for the dollar to lose value relative to inflation, thus the hedge against it.

"Which currency is stronger than the dollar?"

Depends on your time frame, the dollar has been down significantly since 1999 against all major currencies.




I just pulled a 10 year chart on both the dollar vs the Yen and Euro and the dollar is holding its own.  Where are you getting your data from?

The dollar is the strongest major currency on the planet.  It has strengthened against metals steadily now for 3 years.




http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article38039.html

A 30 year chart of the US dollar index inside the link.


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Onlineqman
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Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #21918437 - 07/09/15 08:29 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

qman said:

It's not about the dollar collapsing, it's about the potential for the dollar to lose value relative to inflation, thus the hedge against it.






Given the amount of global stimulus over the last 5 years, Gold should be selling for $5,000 an ounce, but it isn't because it is no longer the hedge against inflation that it used to be.  There are much better hedges than precious metals.

Metals are all about end of the world, total collapse fear.  Hedging against inflation can be done in 100 different ways that don't give you exposure to the easily manipulated precious metals markets which is why so many big buyers have opted out.  Metals have lost over 1/3 of their value in a period of global stimulus that is beyond anything our planet has ever experienced.




"amount of global stimulus"

There really wasn't any stimulus, CB's buying mortgage and government bonds isn't stimulus.

"is no longer the inflation hedge that is used to be"

Where do you get such nonsense?  Gold is down because there isn't any inflation that hurts major asset classes (stocks, bonds, real estate). 

"There are much better hedges than precious metals"

It depends, for the working class PM's do NOT hedge their higher cost of living. Big money uses gold to hedge against harmful inflation against their core investments.

PM's only go up higher if real inflation hits the economy, oil is down to $50, the "stimulus" hasn't worked.  I think you are having a difficult time understanding the difference between monetary policy and fiscal policy.


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: qman]
    #21918525 - 07/09/15 09:01 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

qman said:

It's not about the dollar collapsing, it's about the potential for the dollar to lose value relative to inflation, thus the hedge against it.






Given the amount of global stimulus over the last 5 years, Gold should be selling for $5,000 an ounce, but it isn't because it is no longer the hedge against inflation that it used to be.  There are much better hedges than precious metals.

Metals are all about end of the world, total collapse fear.  Hedging against inflation can be done in 100 different ways that don't give you exposure to the easily manipulated precious metals markets which is why so many big buyers have opted out.  Metals have lost over 1/3 of their value in a period of global stimulus that is beyond anything our planet has ever experienced.




"amount of global stimulus"

There really wasn't any stimulus, CB's buying mortgage and government bonds isn't stimulus.

"is no longer the inflation hedge that is used to be"

Where do you get such nonsense?  Gold is down because there isn't any inflation that hurts major asset classes (stocks, bonds, real estate). 

"There are much better hedges than precious metals"

It depends, for the working class PM's do NOT hedge their higher cost of living. Big money uses gold to hedge against harmful inflation against their core investments.

PM's only go up higher if real inflation hits the economy, oil is down to $50, the "stimulus" hasn't worked.  I think you are having a difficult time understanding the difference between monetary policy and fiscal policy.




"isn't any inflation" … LMAO … Look at equities, bonds and real estate and get back to us on that one.  Flights are more expensive, hotels are more expensive … health care more expensive … education more expensive … 

The stuff that matters is going  up, up, up in price.  What isn't going up is wages for the middle class and that's a whole other issue.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: qman]
    #21918537 - 07/09/15 09:05 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
The entire case for precious metals and this whole collapsing dollar is based on intense pessimism and avoiding the reality that there is no currency out there anywhere near ready to replace the dollar. 

Currencies compete.  Which currency is stronger than the dollar?




It's not about the dollar collapsing, it's about the potential for the dollar to lose value relative to inflation, thus the hedge against it.

"Which currency is stronger than the dollar?"

Depends on your time frame, the dollar has been down significantly since 1999 against all major currencies.




I just pulled a 10 year chart on both the dollar vs the Yen and Euro and the dollar is holding its own.  Where are you getting your data from?

The dollar is the strongest major currency on the planet.  It has strengthened against metals steadily now for 3 years.




http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article38039.html

A 30 year chart of the US dollar index inside the link.




We're talking about competing currencies.  The dollar strength index is a different metric.  THe dollar is doing very well against the EURO, Yen and Yuan … There is virtually no danger now of the dollar collapsing or being replaced as the global reserve currency.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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Onlineqman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
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Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #21918554 - 07/09/15 09:10 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

qman said:

It's not about the dollar collapsing, it's about the potential for the dollar to lose value relative to inflation, thus the hedge against it.






Given the amount of global stimulus over the last 5 years, Gold should be selling for $5,000 an ounce, but it isn't because it is no longer the hedge against inflation that it used to be.  There are much better hedges than precious metals.

Metals are all about end of the world, total collapse fear.  Hedging against inflation can be done in 100 different ways that don't give you exposure to the easily manipulated precious metals markets which is why so many big buyers have opted out.  Metals have lost over 1/3 of their value in a period of global stimulus that is beyond anything our planet has ever experienced.




"amount of global stimulus"

There really wasn't any stimulus, CB's buying mortgage and government bonds isn't stimulus.

"is no longer the inflation hedge that is used to be"

Where do you get such nonsense?  Gold is down because there isn't any inflation that hurts major asset classes (stocks, bonds, real estate). 

"There are much better hedges than precious metals"

It depends, for the working class PM's do NOT hedge their higher cost of living. Big money uses gold to hedge against harmful inflation against their core investments.

PM's only go up higher if real inflation hits the economy, oil is down to $50, the "stimulus" hasn't worked.  I think you are having a difficult time understanding the difference between monetary policy and fiscal policy.




"isn't any inflation" … LMAO … Look at equities, bonds and real estate and get back to us on that one.  Flights are more expensive, hotels are more expensive … health care more expensive … education more expensive … 

The stuff that matters is going  up, up, up in price.  What isn't going up is wages for the middle class and that's a whole other issue.




That's the whole point, PM's only go up when PPI or business inflation (wages and commodities) move higher.

We have no wage growth and commodities have been crushed the past 4 years because of weak global demand.

Like I said before, our higher cost of living (health care, education, rent, food) has NOTHING to do with PM's, there is no hedge for Joe Six-Pack and his inflation.


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Onlineqman
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Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #21918563 - 07/09/15 09:14 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
The entire case for precious metals and this whole collapsing dollar is based on intense pessimism and avoiding the reality that there is no currency out there anywhere near ready to replace the dollar. 

Currencies compete.  Which currency is stronger than the dollar?




It's not about the dollar collapsing, it's about the potential for the dollar to lose value relative to inflation, thus the hedge against it.

"Which currency is stronger than the dollar?"

Depends on your time frame, the dollar has been down significantly since 1999 against all major currencies.




I just pulled a 10 year chart on both the dollar vs the Yen and Euro and the dollar is holding its own.  Where are you getting your data from?

The dollar is the strongest major currency on the planet.  It has strengthened against metals steadily now for 3 years.




http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article38039.html

A 30 year chart of the US dollar index inside the link.




We're talking about competing currencies.  The dollar strength index is a different metric.  The dollar is doing very well against the EURO, Yen and Yuan … There is virtually no danger now of the dollar collapsing or being replaced as the global reserve currency.




The US dollar index is a composite of competing currencies, look at the chart inside the link.

"no danger now of the dollar collapsing or being replaced"

No disagreement there, but it could trade lower as well.


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: qman]
    #21918696 - 07/09/15 09:54 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:


That's the whole point, PM's only go up when PPI or business inflation (wages and commodities) move higher.

We have no wage growth and commodities have been crushed the past 4 years because of weak global demand.

Like I said before, our higher cost of living (health care, education, rent, food) has NOTHING to do with PM's, there is no hedge for Joe Six-Pack and his inflation.




Gold went through the roof and hit an all time high from 2009-late 2011 when prices were falling and there was no inflation at all.

Gold is now completely tied to fear.  Global markets have changed a lot in the last 20 years and the role of gold and other PM's has changed as well.  For your thesis to be true, you would have to explain why gold peaked in late 2011 when there was no inflation at all.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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Onlineqman
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Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #21919001 - 07/09/15 10:30 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

qman said:


That's the whole point, PM's only go up when PPI or business inflation (wages and commodities) move higher.

We have no wage growth and commodities have been crushed the past 4 years because of weak global demand.

Like I said before, our higher cost of living (health care, education, rent, food) has NOTHING to do with PM's, there is no hedge for Joe Six-Pack and his inflation.




Gold went through the roof and hit an all time high from 2009-late 2011 when prices were falling and there was no inflation at all.

Gold is now completely tied to fear.  Global markets have changed a lot in the last 20 years and the role of gold and other PM's has changed as well.  For your thesis to be true, you would have to explain why gold peaked in late 2011 when there was no inflation at all.




"why gold peaked in late 2011"

It was a speculative rally fueled by the misguided thesis that QE was "stimulus" and inflation would develop as a result.

"Gold is now completely tied to fear"

So why did gold tank during (2008) the most fearful market action in 80 years?  Because it was deflationary in nature.


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #21919206 - 07/09/15 10:45 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Metals are all about end of the world, total collapse fear.




That is complete BS. Metals are about the future.

Quote:

Of all the metals, silver is the best conductor of heat and electricity known, in fact it has the highest electrical and thermal conductivity known for any material. It is strong, malleable and ductile, and can endure extreme temperature ranges. Silver is also able to reflect light very well.




Meditate on that. Silver is dirt cheap right now, there is less silver available than there is gold, we are living at the brink of a technological explosion and Silver is THE BEST conductor of electricity and heat.

All we need is a technological breakthrough that requires silver and weeeeee Silver is going to do a Rhodium. Rhodium soared a fortyfold in a few years time, that would mean $1000 silver. I'm not saying "get up to your neck in silver" not at all. But if you have some money you can miss for a few years, buy a bit of silver. It will probably double again during a few weeks in the coming years but if you're lucky, it shoots to the moon.

See it as a lottery ticket.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: Asante]
    #21919415 - 07/09/15 11:15 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

You should have entitled this thread the day the euro dies. That is more likely.

However, pm's are a good hedge against inflation and possibly a good investment. They have never looked better with china going wobbly, Europe doing the same, Greece, spain, Italy, Portugal getting ready to swoon. Yet the prices are way down. People will be doing some serious forehead smacking later on "why didn't I buy when it was so cheap? They told me it was the time but I hesitated and lost"

You can create endless mountains of fiat money with the stroke of a pen. Gold and silver are in fixed supply and getting more and more expensive to mine. Gold never tarnishes, has loads of industrial applications.

Silver is not the best electrical conductor, there are super conductors which are much better. Diamond is the best heat conductor.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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InvisibleAsante
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Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21919459 - 07/09/15 11:23 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

All those superconductors require cryogenic temperatures in order to become superconductive. Silver is the best one that doesnt require any cooling and better yet its very heat conductive so that combination makes it eminently useful in micro, nano and high voltage electronics

As you know (but others don't) almost all silver mined today is mined as a byproduct of base metal production. So you can't just scale up silver mining if you want a lot of it fast. Its mostly a byproduct of a much bigger industry.





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Edited by Asante (07/09/15 11:32 AM)


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Invisiblepsi
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Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: Asante]
    #21919470 - 07/09/15 11:27 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Isn't silver's edge in thermal and electrical conductivity over copper very slight though?


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: psi]
    #21919515 - 07/09/15 11:34 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Every advantage is gain. Its also more corrosion resistant than copper.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: psi]
    #21919542 - 07/09/15 11:39 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

psi said:
Isn't silver's edge in thermal and electrical conductivity over copper very slight though?




Yes, and silver is not very malleable meaning it is stiff, hard to bend and will break more easily. Aluminum is a worse conductor but is cheap so power companies use it for transmission lines. They will not be using silver for electrical wires any time soon except in very limited circumstances.

Super conductive technology has moved forward in leaps and bounds. The savings in electricity costs are starting to come close to the cooling costs. Room temp superconductors should be around soon.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


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Invisiblepsi
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Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: Asante]
    #21919557 - 07/09/15 11:43 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

For sure there are going to be applications where 6% more conductivity is worth spending many many times more money, but otherwise copper does a pretty damn good job. They both are leaps and bounds better than the next runners up.


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: psi]
    #21919858 - 07/09/15 12:40 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Silver is a byproduct of the copper industry :themoreyouknow:


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