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InvisibleAsante
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Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21915241 - 07/08/15 02:12 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

*sneaks up to the front door*
*rings the doorbell*
*when its opened he shouts*

"Thousand Dollar Silver!"
*runs off in the night*


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: Asante]
    #21915285 - 07/08/15 02:24 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
*sneaks up to the front door*
*rings the doorbell*
*when its opened he shouts*

"Thousand Dollar Silver!"
*runs off in the night*



Knock yourself out if you think speculating in commodities is a path to wealth


--------------------


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InvisibleAsante
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Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,796
Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21915525 - 07/08/15 03:21 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I don't think so, but I got me some silver nonetheless.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: Asante]
    #21918153 - 07/09/15 06:02 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

The entire case for precious metals and this whole collapsing dollar is based on intense pessimism and avoiding the reality that there is no currency out there anywhere near ready to replace the dollar. 

Currencies compete.  Which currency is stronger than the dollar?


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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Onlineqman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 8 minutes, 47 seconds
Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #21918313 - 07/09/15 07:35 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
The entire case for precious metals and this whole collapsing dollar is based on intense pessimism and avoiding the reality that there is no currency out there anywhere near ready to replace the dollar. 

Currencies compete.  Which currency is stronger than the dollar?




It's not about the dollar collapsing, it's about the potential for the dollar to lose value relative to inflation, thus the hedge against it.

"Which currency is stronger than the dollar?"

Depends on your time frame, the dollar has been down significantly since 1999 against all major currencies.


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OfflineAlmond Flour
...get off my lawn!
Male


Registered: 12/26/08
Posts: 11,340
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: Asante]
    #21918326 - 07/09/15 07:43 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

What are you talking about. The dollar is doing almost as well as the Euro. We are bouncing back. Welcome to 2015! Whats it like back there in 2007 :datass:


--------------------
Hippies and Liberals love Pope Francis, so why dont I quote him for you guys. "There is NO SALVATION outside the Catholic Church" :morningtoke:


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: qman]
    #21918372 - 07/09/15 08:06 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
The entire case for precious metals and this whole collapsing dollar is based on intense pessimism and avoiding the reality that there is no currency out there anywhere near ready to replace the dollar. 

Currencies compete.  Which currency is stronger than the dollar?




It's not about the dollar collapsing, it's about the potential for the dollar to lose value relative to inflation, thus the hedge against it.

"Which currency is stronger than the dollar?"

Depends on your time frame, the dollar has been down significantly since 1999 against all major currencies.




I just pulled a 10 year chart on both the dollar vs the Yen and Euro and the dollar is holding its own.  Where are you getting your data from?

The dollar is the strongest major currency on the planet.  It has strengthened against metals steadily now for 3 years.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: qman]
    #21918386 - 07/09/15 08:11 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:

It's not about the dollar collapsing, it's about the potential for the dollar to lose value relative to inflation, thus the hedge against it.






Given the amount of global stimulus over the last 5 years, Gold should be selling for $5,000 an ounce, but it isn't because it is no longer the hedge against inflation that it used to be.  There are much better hedges than precious metals.

Metals are all about end of the world, total collapse fear.  Hedging against inflation can be done in 100 different ways that don't give you exposure to the easily manipulated precious metals markets which is why so many big buyers have opted out.  Metals have lost over 1/3 of their value in a period of global stimulus that is beyond anything our planet has ever experienced.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


Edited by KauaiOrca (07/09/15 08:12 AM)


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Onlineqman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 8 minutes, 47 seconds
Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #21918418 - 07/09/15 08:21 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
The entire case for precious metals and this whole collapsing dollar is based on intense pessimism and avoiding the reality that there is no currency out there anywhere near ready to replace the dollar. 

Currencies compete.  Which currency is stronger than the dollar?




It's not about the dollar collapsing, it's about the potential for the dollar to lose value relative to inflation, thus the hedge against it.

"Which currency is stronger than the dollar?"

Depends on your time frame, the dollar has been down significantly since 1999 against all major currencies.




I just pulled a 10 year chart on both the dollar vs the Yen and Euro and the dollar is holding its own.  Where are you getting your data from?

The dollar is the strongest major currency on the planet.  It has strengthened against metals steadily now for 3 years.




http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article38039.html

A 30 year chart of the US dollar index inside the link.


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Onlineqman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 8 minutes, 47 seconds
Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #21918437 - 07/09/15 08:29 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

qman said:

It's not about the dollar collapsing, it's about the potential for the dollar to lose value relative to inflation, thus the hedge against it.






Given the amount of global stimulus over the last 5 years, Gold should be selling for $5,000 an ounce, but it isn't because it is no longer the hedge against inflation that it used to be.  There are much better hedges than precious metals.

Metals are all about end of the world, total collapse fear.  Hedging against inflation can be done in 100 different ways that don't give you exposure to the easily manipulated precious metals markets which is why so many big buyers have opted out.  Metals have lost over 1/3 of their value in a period of global stimulus that is beyond anything our planet has ever experienced.




"amount of global stimulus"

There really wasn't any stimulus, CB's buying mortgage and government bonds isn't stimulus.

"is no longer the inflation hedge that is used to be"

Where do you get such nonsense?  Gold is down because there isn't any inflation that hurts major asset classes (stocks, bonds, real estate). 

"There are much better hedges than precious metals"

It depends, for the working class PM's do NOT hedge their higher cost of living. Big money uses gold to hedge against harmful inflation against their core investments.

PM's only go up higher if real inflation hits the economy, oil is down to $50, the "stimulus" hasn't worked.  I think you are having a difficult time understanding the difference between monetary policy and fiscal policy.


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: qman]
    #21918525 - 07/09/15 09:01 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

qman said:

It's not about the dollar collapsing, it's about the potential for the dollar to lose value relative to inflation, thus the hedge against it.






Given the amount of global stimulus over the last 5 years, Gold should be selling for $5,000 an ounce, but it isn't because it is no longer the hedge against inflation that it used to be.  There are much better hedges than precious metals.

Metals are all about end of the world, total collapse fear.  Hedging against inflation can be done in 100 different ways that don't give you exposure to the easily manipulated precious metals markets which is why so many big buyers have opted out.  Metals have lost over 1/3 of their value in a period of global stimulus that is beyond anything our planet has ever experienced.




"amount of global stimulus"

There really wasn't any stimulus, CB's buying mortgage and government bonds isn't stimulus.

"is no longer the inflation hedge that is used to be"

Where do you get such nonsense?  Gold is down because there isn't any inflation that hurts major asset classes (stocks, bonds, real estate). 

"There are much better hedges than precious metals"

It depends, for the working class PM's do NOT hedge their higher cost of living. Big money uses gold to hedge against harmful inflation against their core investments.

PM's only go up higher if real inflation hits the economy, oil is down to $50, the "stimulus" hasn't worked.  I think you are having a difficult time understanding the difference between monetary policy and fiscal policy.




"isn't any inflation" … LMAO … Look at equities, bonds and real estate and get back to us on that one.  Flights are more expensive, hotels are more expensive … health care more expensive … education more expensive … 

The stuff that matters is going  up, up, up in price.  What isn't going up is wages for the middle class and that's a whole other issue.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: qman]
    #21918537 - 07/09/15 09:05 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
The entire case for precious metals and this whole collapsing dollar is based on intense pessimism and avoiding the reality that there is no currency out there anywhere near ready to replace the dollar. 

Currencies compete.  Which currency is stronger than the dollar?




It's not about the dollar collapsing, it's about the potential for the dollar to lose value relative to inflation, thus the hedge against it.

"Which currency is stronger than the dollar?"

Depends on your time frame, the dollar has been down significantly since 1999 against all major currencies.




I just pulled a 10 year chart on both the dollar vs the Yen and Euro and the dollar is holding its own.  Where are you getting your data from?

The dollar is the strongest major currency on the planet.  It has strengthened against metals steadily now for 3 years.




http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article38039.html

A 30 year chart of the US dollar index inside the link.




We're talking about competing currencies.  The dollar strength index is a different metric.  THe dollar is doing very well against the EURO, Yen and Yuan … There is virtually no danger now of the dollar collapsing or being replaced as the global reserve currency.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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Onlineqman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 8 minutes, 47 seconds
Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #21918554 - 07/09/15 09:10 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

qman said:

It's not about the dollar collapsing, it's about the potential for the dollar to lose value relative to inflation, thus the hedge against it.






Given the amount of global stimulus over the last 5 years, Gold should be selling for $5,000 an ounce, but it isn't because it is no longer the hedge against inflation that it used to be.  There are much better hedges than precious metals.

Metals are all about end of the world, total collapse fear.  Hedging against inflation can be done in 100 different ways that don't give you exposure to the easily manipulated precious metals markets which is why so many big buyers have opted out.  Metals have lost over 1/3 of their value in a period of global stimulus that is beyond anything our planet has ever experienced.




"amount of global stimulus"

There really wasn't any stimulus, CB's buying mortgage and government bonds isn't stimulus.

"is no longer the inflation hedge that is used to be"

Where do you get such nonsense?  Gold is down because there isn't any inflation that hurts major asset classes (stocks, bonds, real estate). 

"There are much better hedges than precious metals"

It depends, for the working class PM's do NOT hedge their higher cost of living. Big money uses gold to hedge against harmful inflation against their core investments.

PM's only go up higher if real inflation hits the economy, oil is down to $50, the "stimulus" hasn't worked.  I think you are having a difficult time understanding the difference between monetary policy and fiscal policy.




"isn't any inflation" … LMAO … Look at equities, bonds and real estate and get back to us on that one.  Flights are more expensive, hotels are more expensive … health care more expensive … education more expensive … 

The stuff that matters is going  up, up, up in price.  What isn't going up is wages for the middle class and that's a whole other issue.




That's the whole point, PM's only go up when PPI or business inflation (wages and commodities) move higher.

We have no wage growth and commodities have been crushed the past 4 years because of weak global demand.

Like I said before, our higher cost of living (health care, education, rent, food) has NOTHING to do with PM's, there is no hedge for Joe Six-Pack and his inflation.


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Onlineqman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 8 minutes, 47 seconds
Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #21918563 - 07/09/15 09:14 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
The entire case for precious metals and this whole collapsing dollar is based on intense pessimism and avoiding the reality that there is no currency out there anywhere near ready to replace the dollar. 

Currencies compete.  Which currency is stronger than the dollar?




It's not about the dollar collapsing, it's about the potential for the dollar to lose value relative to inflation, thus the hedge against it.

"Which currency is stronger than the dollar?"

Depends on your time frame, the dollar has been down significantly since 1999 against all major currencies.




I just pulled a 10 year chart on both the dollar vs the Yen and Euro and the dollar is holding its own.  Where are you getting your data from?

The dollar is the strongest major currency on the planet.  It has strengthened against metals steadily now for 3 years.




http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article38039.html

A 30 year chart of the US dollar index inside the link.




We're talking about competing currencies.  The dollar strength index is a different metric.  The dollar is doing very well against the EURO, Yen and Yuan … There is virtually no danger now of the dollar collapsing or being replaced as the global reserve currency.




The US dollar index is a composite of competing currencies, look at the chart inside the link.

"no danger now of the dollar collapsing or being replaced"

No disagreement there, but it could trade lower as well.


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: qman]
    #21918696 - 07/09/15 09:54 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:


That's the whole point, PM's only go up when PPI or business inflation (wages and commodities) move higher.

We have no wage growth and commodities have been crushed the past 4 years because of weak global demand.

Like I said before, our higher cost of living (health care, education, rent, food) has NOTHING to do with PM's, there is no hedge for Joe Six-Pack and his inflation.




Gold went through the roof and hit an all time high from 2009-late 2011 when prices were falling and there was no inflation at all.

Gold is now completely tied to fear.  Global markets have changed a lot in the last 20 years and the role of gold and other PM's has changed as well.  For your thesis to be true, you would have to explain why gold peaked in late 2011 when there was no inflation at all.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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Onlineqman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 8 minutes, 47 seconds
Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #21919001 - 07/09/15 10:30 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

qman said:


That's the whole point, PM's only go up when PPI or business inflation (wages and commodities) move higher.

We have no wage growth and commodities have been crushed the past 4 years because of weak global demand.

Like I said before, our higher cost of living (health care, education, rent, food) has NOTHING to do with PM's, there is no hedge for Joe Six-Pack and his inflation.




Gold went through the roof and hit an all time high from 2009-late 2011 when prices were falling and there was no inflation at all.

Gold is now completely tied to fear.  Global markets have changed a lot in the last 20 years and the role of gold and other PM's has changed as well.  For your thesis to be true, you would have to explain why gold peaked in late 2011 when there was no inflation at all.




"why gold peaked in late 2011"

It was a speculative rally fueled by the misguided thesis that QE was "stimulus" and inflation would develop as a result.

"Gold is now completely tied to fear"

So why did gold tank during (2008) the most fearful market action in 80 years?  Because it was deflationary in nature.


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InvisibleAsante
Mage
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Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,796
Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #21919206 - 07/09/15 10:45 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Metals are all about end of the world, total collapse fear.




That is complete BS. Metals are about the future.

Quote:

Of all the metals, silver is the best conductor of heat and electricity known, in fact it has the highest electrical and thermal conductivity known for any material. It is strong, malleable and ductile, and can endure extreme temperature ranges. Silver is also able to reflect light very well.




Meditate on that. Silver is dirt cheap right now, there is less silver available than there is gold, we are living at the brink of a technological explosion and Silver is THE BEST conductor of electricity and heat.

All we need is a technological breakthrough that requires silver and weeeeee Silver is going to do a Rhodium. Rhodium soared a fortyfold in a few years time, that would mean $1000 silver. I'm not saying "get up to your neck in silver" not at all. But if you have some money you can miss for a few years, buy a bit of silver. It will probably double again during a few weeks in the coming years but if you're lucky, it shoots to the moon.

See it as a lottery ticket.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Registered: 06/20/04
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Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: Asante]
    #21919415 - 07/09/15 11:15 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

You should have entitled this thread the day the euro dies. That is more likely.

However, pm's are a good hedge against inflation and possibly a good investment. They have never looked better with china going wobbly, Europe doing the same, Greece, spain, Italy, Portugal getting ready to swoon. Yet the prices are way down. People will be doing some serious forehead smacking later on "why didn't I buy when it was so cheap? They told me it was the time but I hesitated and lost"

You can create endless mountains of fiat money with the stroke of a pen. Gold and silver are in fixed supply and getting more and more expensive to mine. Gold never tarnishes, has loads of industrial applications.

Silver is not the best electrical conductor, there are super conductors which are much better. Diamond is the best heat conductor.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


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InvisibleAsante
Mage
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Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,796
Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21919459 - 07/09/15 11:23 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

All those superconductors require cryogenic temperatures in order to become superconductive. Silver is the best one that doesnt require any cooling and better yet its very heat conductive so that combination makes it eminently useful in micro, nano and high voltage electronics

As you know (but others don't) almost all silver mined today is mined as a byproduct of base metal production. So you can't just scale up silver mining if you want a lot of it fast. Its mostly a byproduct of a much bigger industry.





--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here


Edited by Asante (07/09/15 11:32 AM)


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Invisiblepsi
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Posts: 31,456
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Re: The Day The Dollar Dies? [Re: Asante]
    #21919470 - 07/09/15 11:27 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Isn't silver's edge in thermal and electrical conductivity over copper very slight though?


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