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enok
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The connection between psychosis and the ego death *DELETED*
#21912565 - 07/07/15 11:23 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Post deleted by enokReason for deletion: because
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Eggtimer
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Re: The connection between psychosis and the ego death [Re: enok]
#21913520 - 07/08/15 05:25 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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The ego is a construct but so is the idea there is a ego. I highly recommend some eastern, non-dual philosophy, self-inquiry, and Taoism. The main idea is that before you were so and so who does x and likes whatever you first were the simple understanding that you exist. The ego is a construct to aid in survival but you(consciousness) come before it. The self is not the mind but the mind is the self. There's a lot of woo woo too but the ideas are still interesting from the point of view of a psychedelic user. The ideas of ego death and enlightenment seem to go together.
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“You aren’t actually a someone, a person, who is conscious. You are the awake space of awareness itself, within which all the “thought up” entities in your world appear. Out of all these imagined entities, you have simply made the mistake of thinking that one of them is you.”
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“The one who believes himself to be a person needs to try to find that person. This is a solution, an antidote, offered to a ghost that thinks it actually exists.”
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Advaita is the teaching of nonduality, which has become best known in the West through the nondual spiritual teachings of the revered Indian saint, Ramana Maharshi. He taught that self-realization, or the realization of the oneness of who we are, is not some distant goal that only a few can attain. The Self is that which is always and already present, that which doesn't come and go. The love, peace, and happiness we have all been seeking is already here and is, in fact, who we are. Through simple self-inquiry, we can awaken from the dream of a separate self to the reality of Oneness, to the spiritual truth of who we are as nondual consciousness.
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She continued to wait for further elucidation before beginning to write but it soon became apparent that the answer had been given. "But is it a religion? Do you believe in God, for example?"
"Ah, well, that would depend upon what you mean by those words, wouldn't it?" he responded, irritatingly. "If, by ‘religion', you mean does it have priests and churches and a band of followers who are prepared to kill non-believers, then the answer is no. If, on the other hand, you refer to the original, literal meaning of the word, namely to ‘bind again', to reunite the mistaken person that we think we are with the Self that we truly are, then yes, it is a religion. Similarly, if by ‘God' you mean a separate, supernatural being who created the universe and will reward us by sending us to heaven if we do what He wants, then the answer is no. If you use the term in the sense of the unmanifest, non-dual reality, then yes, I most certainly do believe in God."
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“Shape clay into a vessel;
It is the space within that makes it useful.
Cut doors and windows for a room;
It is the holes which make it useful.
Therefore benefit comes from what is there;
Usefulness from what is not there.”
A book like this is a good introduction.
-------------------- It's all for the s
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Aldebaran
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Re: The connection between psychosis and the ego death [Re: enok]
#21915704 - 07/08/15 03:59 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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As far as ANY advice goes for embracing the "new" you, in regards to an ego death? Is there any advice you can offer me?
It's quite difficult to put your experience into context. "Ego death" in relation to psychedelics is usually a temporary experience that is very powerful and transcendent but ends with the user's normal sense of self returning........so there isn't a "new" you afterwards, although you might have various insights to process and integrate.
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trying to study other people to see if they were being genuine so I could be genuine........ "Am I doing it like the others? Did it come out right and genuine?" ......... I realized I was trying really hard to be the idea of me
The kind of things you talk about sound like a form of depersonalization - a kind of alienation from your own personality where you sense of self doesn't seem real or genuine.
There's an interesting snippet on the wikipedia page on ego death which links these two things together:
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Dark Night and depersonalisation See also: Depersonalisation
Shinzen Young, an American Buddhist teacher, has pointed at the difficulty integrating the experience of no self. He calls this "the Dark Night", or
... "falling into the Pit of the Void." It entails an authentic and irreversible insight into Emptiness and No Self. What makes it problematic is that the person interprets it as a bad trip. Instead of being empowering and fulfilling, the way Buddhist literature claims it will be, it turns into the opposite. In a sense, it's Enlightenment's Evil Twin.
It sounds like your psychedelic experiences have undermined your sense of self and developed into some kind of psychosis based around this, but this is not really what I would understand by "ego death".
In the post above mine by Eggtimer, the third quote talks about nonduality. If an "ego death" from a trip translated into something more permanent, I think it would be this sense of peace and oneness where your sense of self co-exists happily with the knowledge that the self is not real - it should be a unifying experience, not something that fractures your sense of who you are.
-------------------- I wrote that, but I meant something else
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PrimalSoup
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Re: The connection between psychosis and the ego death [Re: enok]
#21916714 - 07/08/15 08:08 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Enok, welcome to the Shroomery.
You likely won't get too many responses to this because, honestly, what you're talking about scares most people shitless. It's possible there's a pre-existing tendency to full blown schizophrenia that the psychedelics precipitated, this is know to happen to some people and you're at about the right age where adult-onset schizophrenia shows up.
But it doesn't really sound like that. Most initial attempts to beat down the ego end up like this, and society isn't much help because almost everybody is fully vested in maintaining the illusion at all costs. If that doesn't particularly bother you and you want to proceed (it's really hard to go back to ignorance once you've seen the difference) be prepared to spend either a lot of trips working it out, or a lot of time meditating working it out, or both, sometimes in combination.
The thing about so-called "ego death", which almost always requires massive doses to overcome the inbuilt defenses the ego possesses, is that once it actually happens you're just left with this feeling of peace - not of loss - because what you though you had wasn't real, and what you really do have, then, is the most real anything can be. But almost nobody will ever believe you about it. 
You won't be like "them" anymore. It doesn't make you better, or more spiritual, or even holy, or anything else. It just makes you work correctly, because you finally got rid of the broken parts - and that in itself is one hell of a blessing.
I'd also recommend meditation - I've done a lot of that and you can do it everyday, a lot more frequently than tripping anyway.
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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Blazer420
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Re: The connection between psychosis and the ego death [Re: PrimalSoup]
#21916880 - 07/08/15 08:37 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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gettin deep yo
-------------------- ~ I used to get high on life, until I realized life was cut with morons ~ * You need 2 wake up and smell the music! * -We are all computer data in a materialistic world- |Sometimes you have to lose yourself, to find anything|
 
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sushimushy
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Re: The connection between psychosis and the ego death [Re: PrimalSoup]
#21919487 - 07/09/15 11:30 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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where your sense of self co-exists happily with the knowledge that the self is not real
This makes no sense to me. This would mean living a lie. How can u keep nurturing the bullshit once u've seen it's bullshit?
I don't think the OP refers to the experience of ego death btw, i think he refers more to a process of slow deconstruction of the ego because of self observation and analyzation.
And @ OP, i think you should make a thread at the spirituality section of the forum und copy-paste ur post there, u are more likely to get answeres there than at this section i think.
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PrimalSoup
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Re: The connection between psychosis and the ego death [Re: sushimushy]
#21919809 - 07/09/15 12:28 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I think he means you can know that the "sense of self" is a complete illusion and still use it for the things it's useful for. This is a Buddhist practice BTW, recognizing the limited mind for what it is (a construct) while dwelling in the infinite mind. This is a long ways beyond trying deconstruct the ego WITH the ego, which never works, as the OP demonstrates.
It's simple enough. 
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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Aldebaran
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Re: The connection between psychosis and the ego death [Re: sushimushy]
#21921187 - 07/09/15 06:16 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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i think he refers more to a process of slow deconstruction of the ego because of self observation and analyzation.
Yes, that makes sense....but it's developed into a psychosis.
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This makes no sense to me. This would mean living a lie. How can u keep nurturing the bullshit once u've seen it's bullshit?
Maybe what I've written there doesn't make sense, but I'll try to explain what I meant.
The quote I was looking at was this one:
Quote:
He taught that self-realization, or the realization of the oneness of who we are, is not some distant goal that only a few can attain. The Self is that which is always and already present, that which doesn't come and go. The love, peace, and happiness we have all been seeking is already here and is, in fact, who we are. Through simple self-inquiry, we can awaken from the dream of a separate self to the reality of Oneness, to the spiritual truth of who we are as nondual consciousness.
I was thinking that "ego death" was more like a waking up, a realization of something that is already there, not a grand struggle to live an authentic life struggling against the "bullshit".
I'm probably using the word "non-dualism" in the wrong way, but one of the things I noticed about the general buddhist approach is that it frequently rejects western notions that insist on things being one thing or another. I think obsessing about living an ego-less life (if it makes sense at all) is something vain and self-obsessed, it's turning eastern concepts into some horrible bastardised lifestyle-management bullshit. If you are getting yourself caught up in conceptual knots about behaving as a "genuine" person, surely that's the opposite of what buddhism is supposed to be about?
I think there's also some confusion between the term "ego" to mean the self, or to mean ego as in egotistical, at least in the OP's original post.
If you're talking about the construct of the self, then I don't see how you can realistically live without it. Is anyone seriously suggesting that you should live in a state of complete "ego-death" like this?
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... an imageless experience in which there is no sense of personal identity. It is the experience that remains possible in a state of extremely deep trance when the ego-functions of reality-testing, sense-perception, memory, reason, fantasy and self-representation are repressed
What I meant is that you can get an insight into the "unreality" of the self, but you still have to function as a person. I don't see a problem with integrating these two things, i.e functioning as a self without seeing it as the fundamental basis of reality. It seems like the OP is trying to search for a "real" self beneath the "false" self when there is no "real" self to find.
***
One of the things this thread made me curious about is - what exactly is the end point supposed to be for this "deconstruction of the ego"?
If it's just some attempt to behave less selfishly then fine, whatever, but I can't see the logic in trying to deconstruct something that you believe doesn't really exist (which would be "trying to deconstruct the ego with the ego" as Primal says).
I don't pretend to know a great deal about Buddhism, I'm just throwing out some random thoughts.
My general impression of ego death is something pretty close to one of the definitions on wikipedia:
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Enlightenment occurs when the usually automatized reflexivity of consciousness ceases, which is experienced as a letting-go and falling into the void and being wiped out of existence [...] [W]hen consciousness stops trying to catch its own tail, I become nothing, and discover that I am everything.
If you get something like that in a trip, and you take it seriously to represent the fundamental ground of reality, then I think it pretty much wipes out all your metaphysical concerns in one giant nuclear blast...what is there to worry about? Life seems like a game in some kind of cosmic playground.
But that kind of psychedelic experience is a brief glimpse of something.....it's soon back to normality, the self, the daily grind. Personally I don't take all this ego death stuff completely seriously when I'm sober, but it's a very interesting state to drop into on psychedelics....and the important thing is that you can reach this kind of state at all. Either way, it should be something liberating, not something that leaves you raving about the "bullshit".....the bullshit nature of life is well advertised, surely?
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This would mean living a lie. How can u keep nurturing the bullshit once u've seen it's bullshit?
The thing that confuses me here is - what exactly is supposed to be bullshit? Both western science and philosophy, and buddhism, fundamentally reject the kind of naive realism that would lead anyone to be overly surprised when they discover that psychedelics can pull your consciousness and your personal identity apart and reveal it to be some kind of construct.
Well, that's enough of my random thoughts for one day, I'd be interested to hear other opinions, especially from a more spiritual angle.
-------------------- I wrote that, but I meant something else
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teenagehippie
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Re: The connection between psychosis and the ego death [Re: PrimalSoup]
#21921238 - 07/09/15 06:31 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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PrimalSoup said: Enok, welcome to the Shroomery.
You likely won't get too many responses to this because, honestly, what you're talking about scares most people shitless. It's possible there's a pre-existing tendency to full blown schizophrenia that the psychedelics precipitated, this is know to happen to some people and you're at about the right age where adult-onset schizophrenia shows up.
But it doesn't really sound like that. Most initial attempts to beat down the ego end up like this, and society isn't much help because almost everybody is fully vested in maintaining the illusion at all costs. If that doesn't particularly bother you and you want to proceed (it's really hard to go back to ignorance once you've seen the difference) be prepared to spend either a lot of trips working it out, or a lot of time meditating working it out, or both, sometimes in combination.
The thing about so-called "ego death", which almost always requires massive doses to overcome the inbuilt defenses the ego possesses, is that once it actually happens you're just left with this feeling of peace - not of loss - because what you though you had wasn't real, and what you really do have, then, is the most real anything can be. But almost nobody will ever believe you about it. 
You won't be like "them" anymore. It doesn't make you better, or more spiritual, or even holy, or anything else. It just makes you work correctly, because you finally got rid of the broken parts - and that in itself is one hell of a blessing.
I'd also recommend meditation - I've done a lot of that and you can do it everyday, a lot more frequently than tripping anyway.
Excellent post.
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Hypnotoad420
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Re: The connection between psychosis and the ego death [Re: PrimalSoup]
#21921378 - 07/09/15 07:05 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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PrimalSoup said: I think he means you can know that the "sense of self" is a complete illusion and still use it for the things it's useful for. This is a Buddhist practice BTW, recognizing the limited mind for what it is (a construct) while dwelling in the infinite mind. This is a long ways beyond trying deconstruct the ego WITH the ego, which never works, as the OP demonstrates.
It's simple enough.  
Really like your posts ps, you have some great wisdom.
Yes, the ego has its usefulness otherwise what would be the purpose of having one? its not that the ego is something to combat and fight against but learn to observe and "direct" when its needed. you don't always have to be uptight about living a completely spiritual existence we are not just human beings having spiritual experiences we need to remember we are spiritual beings having a human experience. Integration of this wisdom is the key to being able to let go of everything you think you know as truth to be able to even grasp what truth might be even though im not sure if that isn't subjective per individual consciousness so its all a crap shoot. Only when you understand your egoness can you learn to become egoless? if that makes sense? but its still all a dualistic illusion in the grand scheme of things everyone on the planet who has ever had a spiritual realization and Buddha's mother most likely came to the similar idea that everything and everyone is one in one way or another we all depend on each other to survive even our own ego's. So there is no separation your ego is just as much a part of you as your higher self and your past lives and whatever part of yourself that you choose to believe in its all at our disposal all the time even if we are not aware of it.
So in conclusion I suggest we all learn to make friends, Because its not going away until we die IRL. and even then who knows if it does not get sent to some alternate dimension where it manifests into another existence that it came from in the first place. *que twilight zone theme song*


lmao
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PrimalSoup
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Re: The connection between psychosis and the ego death [Re: Hypnotoad420]
#21921854 - 07/09/15 08:50 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Uhm, OK, thanks. Hope the OP comes back around...
I often got the sense after I got seriously into mushrooms that I was somehow watching this "I" do things but it wasn't really me anymore. I suppose that's what's called depersonalization, and I confess it bothered me a great deal at times, like I was having to do this check to say if, say, I was feeling "genuine" emotions, shit like that.
And then it mutated over time (I was still meditating regularly then), into a sense of possessing both a spontaneous, completely genuine self, and at the same time a sort of "shadow" self that was a just bit late on the uptake, but which I identified now with the original "I" that I was watching do things earlier - that is to say, it wasn't actually doing those things (and it probably never was actually doing those things, but it was REALLY good at taking the credit for doing those things. )
This was the point I think at which, recognizing it was an illusion of some sort, that I tried actively to get rid of it somehow. But that never worked, it just kept coming back no matter what, and the whole process was painful and messing things up in general.
So I gave that up and just kept reprogramming things while tripping until there was just the primary focus of consciousness (the genuine I, or more like the original mind that Buddhism describes so well) and this ancillary sort of bookkeeping self that only exists in the shadow of and slightly behind the primary focus but doesn't try to steer the boat anymore. 'Cause it's a damn lousy pilot; but it does a good job of keeping track of details. It disappears a lot of the time anyway when not needed.
If anybody's still with the argument, this all follows along the Zen "Ten Ox Herding Pictures" that relate to "enlightenment":

YMMV.
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Edited by PrimalSoup (07/10/15 07:51 AM)
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sushimushy
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Re: The connection between psychosis and the ego death [Re: Aldebaran]
#21924312 - 07/10/15 12:43 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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The thing that confuses me here is - what exactly is supposed to be bullshit?
I can only speak personal. To me, it's like... Okay first, ego to me means just thoughts, mental activity of any kind, which is like always self-centered in one or another way. When there's silence, there is no ego (in action). Well and once u've observed "your" thoughts while "meditating" or whatever, seen the stupidity of it all, and then let them go, as naturally as u drop something hot as soon u feel it's hot... once u've seen those thoughts melting, and turning into what they're made of: raw beautiful light/energy, pure awareness, and experienced this, felt it, u're gonna be like thats all bullshit. Because, it's like, all negativity is made of positivity, dissatisfaction is made of happiness, endless chattering is made of silence, hate is made of love, tension is made of relaxation, mindlessness if made of awareness, and so on. Because all that negativity is a product of thought, or is thought, and once u let it go it turns into light/raw energy/silence/original mind/whatever, that psychic energy out of which thoughts manifest/are made of. And even positive, pleasant mind-manifestations like feelings of superiority, pleasure, satisfaction etc., even that stuff i rather let go and let it melt into what it's made of, cause it's wayyyy more beautiful. I mean u actually rarely really NEED thought, ego-in-action. And in this state-of-mind you function way better, are way more creative, constructive, loving, energetic, aware, present. It's like, thought is a tool, like a big heavy chainsaw, and what most of humanity is doing is: carrying that big heavy chainsaw arround all the time thru all your life, while u only need it once in a while. Most of that thoughts are unconscious and nonverbal, btw.
The Problem is, the ego doesn't wanna be put into it's place. This threatens the ego, and if the ego doesn't feel secure, it can't function properly, and what follows can be symptoms like OP describes. Depersonalisation, psychosis. Thats atleast my interpretation. I haven't found out what's the trick yet. The trick to chill the ego out, so it looses the fear of "dying".
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I often got the sense after I got seriously into mushrooms that I was somehow watching this "I" do things but it wasn't really me anymore.
i know that schizo-feel. In my case it happened because of meditation(i just sat and observed my mind). It was like, there's a thought that felt like "I", than i observed that thought and it felt like "I" was observing that thought which now didn't feel like me anymore. Than "I" observed that "observing of the thought which didn't feel like me anymore" and that "observing of the thought which didn't feel like me anymore" didn't feel like me anymore now neither, but the observing of that felt like me now... and so on. Like, the observer observes the observer observes the observer observes the observer..... Or, there's a mental reaction to a mental reaction to a mental reaction... After some mindfucky time i realized what was going on and did let it go, and there it was, fresh silence  But it left me wondering who "I" really am. And i came to the conclusion that I'm just the light, pure awareness. Which can manifest into a thought which identifys itself with something. But it's both the same basically.
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So I gave that up and just kept reprogramming things while tripping until there was just the primary focus of consciousness (the genuine I, or more like the original mind that Buddhism describes so well) and this ancillary sort of bookkeeping self that only exists in the shadow
I'm curious, could you please elaborate? That reprogramming while tripping part and how whatever you did does differ from that deconstructing thing u did before. Or do u mean just tripping out very often and that alone did the shift to "primary focus of consciousness"? And isn't tripping the same, isn't tripping a deconstruction of the ego?
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sushimushy
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Re: The connection between psychosis and the ego death [Re: sushimushy]
#21924343 - 07/10/15 12:55 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Problem is, the ego doesn't wanna be put into it's place. This threatens the ego, and if the ego doesn't feel secure, it can't function properly, and what follows can be symptoms like OP describes. Depersonalisation, psychosis. Thats atleast my interpretation. I haven't found out what's the trick yet. The trick to chill the ego out, so it looses the fear of "dying".
Oh, if anybody got any thoughts on this to share i would greatly aprecciate it
Edited by sushimushy (07/10/15 12:59 PM)
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PrimalSoup
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Re: The connection between psychosis and the ego death [Re: sushimushy]
#21924594 - 07/10/15 01:42 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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sushimushy said:
Quote:
So I gave that up and just kept reprogramming things while tripping until there was just the primary focus of consciousness (the genuine I, or more like the original mind that Buddhism describes so well) and this ancillary sort of bookkeeping self that only exists in the shadow
I'm curious, could you please elaborate? That reprogramming while tripping part and how whatever you did does differ from that deconstructing thing u did before. Or do u mean just tripping out very often and that alone did the shift to "primary focus of consciousness"? And isn't tripping the same, isn't tripping a deconstruction of the ego? 
I mean actually reprogramming, hard to explain though I've heard a few other people talk about it as well. With mushrooms you can get deep enough into your mind (and subconscious I suppose) that you can see how things actually work, and once you see that you can change it (if you like) and then later on, after the trip, those changes are active. During the trip you can (or I've done this anyway) actually "reboot" your mind after altering such stuff and see directly what happens as a result. It can be scary at first and it requires a leap of faith in the process. I think yeah, massive tripping will do this spontaneously - if you've ever lost it while tripping and felt the reconstruction occur - that's what I'm talking about.
The deconstructing thing was actively trying to work on the superficial levels of the divided mind, it just squirms out of reach when you try that. Zen Buddhism, and some other schools as well, are all about cutting off the bush of the divided mind at its roots and just being done with it. That works - so long as you know what it is you won't suffer from it, it's when you don't know what it is and think it's all there is that you suffer.
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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enok
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Re: The connection between psychosis and the ego death [Re: PrimalSoup]
#21938480 - 07/13/15 06:04 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Hey people, so I really appreciate your input its really helped me think about what I posted. I am still recovering from my psychosis and its tough. As far as what you guys are saying I want to retract what I said, I don't believe I underwent an ego death. However, I think I saw that the ego really is real, and THAT scared the shit out of me, to the point of depersonalization - like someone else said. By the way I really appreciate the fact so many of you have posted. It's cool.
I think another reason why the whole concept of the ego death "gets" to me is the fact it really is a life-changing experience based off what I've heard from everyone, and knowing in my mind that I'm subpar that I'm not experiencing the true greatness of it all kinda fucks with me. In short, I'm overthinking it WAY too much, like happiness is on the other side of the fence just out of arms reach. Like what the fuck? Why is something that is kind of me- but not me- but me- fucking me over into not getting something every person deserves? By the way, here's a way to describe psychosis for you. Imagine if you believed your brain, thoughts, ego whatever, did NOT have your best interest in heart, in that it was trying to drive you to insanity, an enemy attached to your fucking head But where does "it" end and "you" start haha like what the fuck. Then again it might be hard for you guys to imagine deeply that kind of stuff because luckily you haven't experienced it.
Furthermore, I'm finding a place of stability honing myself in the moment and its new to me, like learning how to walk again. My question to you guys is this: I keep hearing reports about ayahuasca CHANGING peoples lives for the better and I can SEE it on their faces, a true, at least apparent change of the self. Do you think based off what I have gone through that this is a fucking terrible idea? What do you think?
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Deathcore
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Re: The connection between psychosis and the ego death [Re: enok]
#21938535 - 07/13/15 06:13 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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its called madness..im in the same boat..
its probably your religion haunting you
never feeling worthy
not able to prove anything
but have gut feelins that are ironic and predictable
syncronicity
fear
love and hate
regulations and restrictions determine how we live
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enok
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Re: The connection between psychosis and the ego death [Re: Deathcore]
#21938660 - 07/13/15 06:43 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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care to expand?
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Hypnotoad420
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Re: The connection between psychosis and the ego death [Re: enok]
#21938684 - 07/13/15 06:48 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
enok said: Hey people, so I really appreciate your input its really helped me think about what I posted. I am still recovering from my psychosis and its tough. As far as what you guys are saying I want to retract what I said, I don't believe I underwent an ego death. However, I think I saw that the ego really is real, and THAT scared the shit out of me, to the point of depersonalization - like someone else said. By the way I really appreciate the fact so many of you have posted. It's cool.
I think another reason why the whole concept of the ego death "gets" to me is the fact it really is a life-changing experience based off what I've heard from everyone, and knowing in my mind that I'm subpar that I'm not experiencing the true greatness of it all kinda fucks with me. In short, I'm overthinking it WAY too much, like happiness is on the other side of the fence just out of arms reach. Like what the fuck? Why is something that is kind of me- but not me- but me- fucking me over into not getting something every person deserves? By the way, here's a way to describe psychosis for you. Imagine if you believed your brain, thoughts, ego whatever, did NOT have your best interest in heart, in that it was trying to drive you to insanity, an enemy attached to your fucking head But where does "it" end and "you" start haha like what the fuck. Then again it might be hard for you guys to imagine deeply that kind of stuff because luckily you haven't experienced it.
Furthermore, I'm finding a place of stability honing myself in the moment and its new to me, like learning how to walk again. My question to you guys is this: I keep hearing reports about ayahuasca CHANGING peoples lives for the better and I can SEE it on their faces, a true, at least apparent change of the self. Do you think based off what I have gone through that this is a fucking terrible idea? What do you think?
It sounds like you have a lot of integration and work to do brother, we all do as none of as are born realized or perfect we are born into forgetfulness. This is ok, this is our experience. All things come when they are supposed to mostly not really when we want them or need them which is an interesting take on events but an experience none the less that proves your life and reality is not the same as necessarily anyone else's, I believe you recognize one of the facets you have created for yourself to survive but do not pit yourself against yourself that only leads to self destruction. Accept who you are and what you are and realize who you are not and keep your consciousness in the present moment as much as your focus will allow and train if this path is something you truly seek. Good travels
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



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Re: The connection between psychosis and the ego death [Re: enok]
#21938943 - 07/13/15 07:52 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Schizophrenia IS a psychosis and I've had it. It sucks immensely for many of the reasons you cited. Your mind becomes your enemy. 
FWIW don't equate "ego death" with any kind of "greatness". It's pretty much the exact opposite of that, and that's why it's helpful to many people. You aren't going to fart rainbows and dance with unicorns if you experience it, you're going to be scared shitless - but in a very good way.
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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enok
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Re: The connection between psychosis and the ego death [Re: Hypnotoad420]
#21939168 - 07/13/15 08:40 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I have willingly been a prisoner of my mind pretty much my whole life and my psychosis has made it so much worse.... sort of. I just want peace and love and groundedness. I'd be willing to throw the dice with ayahuasca but I'm scared my previous psychosis and completely insecurity will prevent me from having the experience I want. I know that it helps depression and anxiety but what about thought disorders? I don't have delusions now or anything like that, but as far as being in a group of people I don't know and SPEAKING, see you later. I'm content with my suffering because I've been doing it silently, flirting with sparks of happiness here and there, for so long that I've become numb to other possibilities! What steps should I take?
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enok
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Re: The connection between psychosis and the ego death [Re: PrimalSoup]
#21939189 - 07/13/15 08:44 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Scared in a good way means scared in a great way
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Deathcore
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Re: The connection between psychosis and the ego death [Re: enok]
#21939226 - 07/13/15 08:52 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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There is nothing you can do.
You opened to many doors, and these doors can never close.
You have to find the correct time line to hop on.. If that makes sense... Like walking in the deepest area of the jungle and finding that path thatll take you to peace and freedom. You tend to stumble upon the same path that leads you back to the center only the weeds and trees have grown bigger since then, so not only is it more xonfusing, its more frightening because you know you don't want to remain there but you have doubts of ever finding your way out but you also know that the only true way is death..
check out the lyrics to this song
its scary as fuck
The song is called Ending Circle
It is hidden in darkness now It lost the glow as time went by And now they know it is all over I cannot say that we did wrong After that they would call on us In the search for a perfect beast We would come, then take their wishes Roped theirs necks and we saw them through
In true faith And untamed strength
No one ever listened to us This dream was nothing but a lie
Of the threats they could not shun Erasing all that was left behind And when they could not hold on no more I would not harm and no one would die So sharp, unavoidable For years it spoke inside of them My contempt for what they turned It knew no ends
It is started all over again Though you just don't know it yet This is the cold time of the giants And you gonna cut yourself We find the scent first, then the way All is done while you are sleeping Cause you know it is all too late And you cut yourself bad
In true faith And untamed strength
No one ever listened to us This dream was nothing but a lie
I'm all the terror and all the dread And my actions will loudly speak To destroy all in your might Bit by bit, in heavens, on earth Cannot continue this false peace We have grown too far apart Roars from the blackest abyss Now march for war
When there were no allies to be found And the enemies were surrounding you It gave no reason to love you I became this bloody beast
No one ever listened to us This dream was nothing but a lie
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Mycophile
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Re: The connection between psychosis and the ego death [Re: enok]
#21939473 - 07/13/15 09:44 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I could go on, and on, and on about this, but I will try and spare everyone the novel.
This post sounds like I wrote it when I was 19. I don't say that to imply that your experience is not unique. it is- %100, and it always will be.
You will integrate this experience and grow from it immensely. you'll be right as rain in due time. It feels impossible now, I know, but the light at the end of the tunnel is glorious.
In many ways, growing is an act of destruction, if that makes sense. It's the destruction of the old you, and It can hurt- especially at this time, when you already would be experiencing some serious emotional growing pains without the psychs.
When the load was too heavy to bear for me, I unloaded it all onto my mother- I was lucky enough to have one that would understand. I talked so much, I said so many things.
I brought up question after question after question, and she didn't have much to say until I was completely done talking... then she said to me..
"Sounds like you're becoming an adult, for real. i'm not talking about puberty or working or any of that- like, I mean a compete person, emotionally. The reason you couldn't feel things this strongly until now is you wouldn't have been able to handle it. it's how it works. you took all that shit and put yourself through this hell because your soul was ready for it. I did it too. I told you not to... because I knew it would hurt. i'm so proud of you- there is a lot of love in this world, and it's impossible to feel the magnitude of love and beauty around you until you've hurt, real real bad. not like your girlfriend leaving you.. like only the kind of pain you can feel when realizing the plight of being a human"
I bolded the bit above because as a final note I wanted to say - You a braver than most for attempting to explore one of the most terrifying places on earth -- The self.. and, even if you can't name the reasons, you took the journey for some purpose, so why question it?
It's crazy how fast, and in how many ways life can change on you. Get whatever rest you can manage, maybe have a few beers and watch a movie with an old friend.
Peace and love to you stranger and kindred spirit. May your body carry you through space and time for many moons to come- and may the earth always rise beneath you to greet your steps no matter how small or large.
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RESISTANCE IS FUTILE My records for your prints
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Mycophile
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Re: The connection between psychosis and the ego death [Re: Deathcore]
#21939544 - 07/13/15 09:56 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Except-other people have opened those doors- In many ways much further open than any of us in this thread, and vast majority come back at %150.
I saw the thread you made before this one, and was sort of hoping maybe you would run into my reply here.
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RESISTANCE IS FUTILE My records for your prints
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enok
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Re: The connection between psychosis and the ego death [Re: Deathcore]
#21939708 - 07/13/15 10:32 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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No man I don't believe that, every day I am improving and life is getting better. I am making more sense of what it takes to live as a human being in a mechanical world. I'm starting to live in between the lines, to appreciate much more, the doors have opened and it can be blinding sometimes because of my insecurities but fuck, I'd rather have these doors opened than closed. Right? I'd rather be a little fish in a big pond and learn to grow and find out what ma waters hold with extra exploration potential than be a big fish in a small pond and be constricted by barriers.
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enok
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Re: The connection between psychosis and the ego death [Re: Mycophile]
#21939747 - 07/13/15 10:41 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I really appreciate your words, it gives me so much security to have someone say light really is at the end of the tunnel. On the subject of friends, its funny, many left me, its because they didn't understand was psychosis was. But seriously, what the fuck? Lol. I had a friend named Nate and a select few others who really loved me and knew who I was deep down, so grateful for those kinds of people. I wonder now that I'm recovering and working in the real world, if I should tell people about my experience? I don't want to put them off though or to make them think of me as a fragment of a person or some kind of machine that ticked wrong. Dang
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Aldebaran
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Re: The connection between psychosis and the ego death [Re: enok]
#21942979 - 07/14/15 05:13 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
I think another reason why the whole concept of the ego death "gets" to me is the fact it really is a life-changing experience based off what I've heard from everyone, and knowing in my mind that I'm subpar that I'm not experiencing the true greatness of it all kinda fucks with me. In short, I'm overthinking it WAY too much, like happiness is on the other side of the fence just out of arms reach.
Well, if it's any consolation, as a psychedelic experience I find that "ego death" can be terrifying on the way in, and extremely manic (similar to a kind of temporary delusional psychosis) on the way out. Blissful and revelatory yes, but not something that is necessarily easy to assimilate afterwards beyond "what the fuck was that?" A heavy trip is not an instant shortcut to some kind of deep spiritual peace - there is a lot of delusional mayhem too.
On the topic of overthinking, and happiness being out of reach, I was watching a youtube video about the effects of psilocybin (based on FMRI studies) and they mentioned that one aspect of depression was a tendency to introspect too much....which made me reflect that happiness is more about being lost "in the moment" (even just being absorbed by writing out a post like this) than something you sit down and evaluate based on how your life is going. I suppose that links into some of the spiritual / buddhist ideas (there is no way to happiness.....happiness is the way) and that kind of thing.
Here's that video if you are interested (long and sciency)
How do psychedelic drugs work in the brain?
-------------------- I wrote that, but I meant something else
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