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InvisibleMagicalOrangutan
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How can one argue that living things are truly "intelligently designed"?
    #21911717 - 07/07/15 08:36 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I understand how you could argue that life APPEARS intelligently designed with all the symmetry of most lifeforms and the complex autonomy of a living thing, but consider, human beings will get cancer and die just from doing nothing wrong, if you're unlucky enough to certain genes mutate. So many flaws and things that go wrong. Obesity, autism, being a midgit or having gigantiam, etc. Humans can't even regenerate limbs, hell if I had the power to create life I'd at least be smart enough to make people able to regrow their legs they lost at war

So really, considering all the imperfections of life, I'd say you can't argue for intelligent design, you CAN argue that life SEEMS intelligently designed at first glance


--------------------
On the ground you lay, with your dogs you pray, at a neon hieroglyph sky you gaze

Hugging your mind, praying to survive, feeling the love of the hieroglyphs in the sky
We all need more love, and mainly less hate
Hate is the blind that covers the heart's eye
That makes the heart's eye cry
Locked deep away in the skies of our minds

It's all in the mind


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: How can one argue that living things are truly "intelligently designed"? [Re: MagicalOrangutan]
    #21911724 - 07/07/15 08:38 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

It's lack of imagination combined with sheer ignorance of life's processes. And of course, don't forget about the charlatans who are slavering to turn a quick buck on the abundance of these precious natural resources.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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Invisiblelarry.fisherman
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Re: How can one argue that living things are truly "intelligently designed"? [Re: MagicalOrangutan]
    #21911739 - 07/07/15 08:39 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I believe in an 'ever-existing conscious life entity' but I don't however believe everything was set to perfection. It's more like a controlled demolition. As far as a god in the grand scheme of things.. I don't know, can you see the bugs on an ant's knee?


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InvisibleMagicalOrangutan
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Re: How can one argue that living things are truly "intelligently designed"? [Re: larry.fisherman]
    #21911804 - 07/07/15 08:49 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

So considering more intelligence would equate to more perfection, this intelligent designer wasn't as intelligent as they thought they were


--------------------
On the ground you lay, with your dogs you pray, at a neon hieroglyph sky you gaze

Hugging your mind, praying to survive, feeling the love of the hieroglyphs in the sky
We all need more love, and mainly less hate
Hate is the blind that covers the heart's eye
That makes the heart's eye cry
Locked deep away in the skies of our minds

It's all in the mind


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Invisiblelarry.fisherman
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Re: How can one argue that living things are truly "intelligently designed"? [Re: MagicalOrangutan]
    #21911813 - 07/07/15 08:50 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

You're assuming you know intention other than your own.

Also, if you understand this passage, in response to perfection,

Nothing gold can stay.


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InvisibleBodhi of Ankou
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Re: How can one argue that living things are truly "intelligently designed"? [Re: MagicalOrangutan]
    #21911922 - 07/07/15 09:11 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I dont think its intelligently designed but it cultivates intelligence through beautifully subtle complexity. You say cancer is what eliminates the possibility of intelligent design but I think its one of those fundamental things that drives life to grow stronger. We're forced to understand ourselves at a deeper level to defeat it. Theres millions of these subtle little things out there like that, that cultivate and nurture a deeper intelligence and awareness in life. Even something like an omniverous diet slowly forces and escalates evolution into a dominant intelligence like us. It drives us to grow a strong memory, the ability to communicate, to build tools. It might not be some divine essence running a printing press for life and popping out life forms out of thin air, but there is an almost well thought out route to higher sapience that the greater whole of life pushes itself through to evolve, and from us and that intelligence I think there lies very little seperation.


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OfflineShroomslip
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Re: How can one argue that living things are truly "intelligently designed"? [Re: MagicalOrangutan] * 1
    #21911927 - 07/07/15 09:12 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

:threadmonitor: for AF's input.


--------------------
With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way.
I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today.
Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear.
I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear.


You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being
With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline


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Invisiblelarry.fisherman
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Re: How can one argue that living things are truly "intelligently designed"? [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
    #21911979 - 07/07/15 09:24 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Bodhi of Ankou said:
I dont think its intelligently designed but it cultivates intelligence through beautifully subtle complexity. You say cancer is what eliminates the possibility of intelligent design but I think its one of those fundamental things that drives life to grow stronger. We're forced to understand ourselves at a deeper level to defeat it. Theres millions of these subtle little things out there like that, that cultivate and nurture a deeper intelligence and awareness in life. Even something like an omniverous diet slowly forces and escalates evolution into a dominant intelligence like us. It drives us to grow a strong memory, the ability to communicate, to build tools. It might not be some divine essence running a printing press for life and popping out life forms out of thin air, but there is an almost well thought out route to higher sapience that the greater whole of life pushes itself through to evolve, and from us and that intelligence I think there lies very little seperation.



It's hard to design something when it's always changing. Otherwise you'd need to pick and choose moments in time that are relevant to the point. Like a photograph or a memory.


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InvisibleConfucian
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Re: How can one argue that living things are truly "intelligently designed"? [Re: larry.fisherman]
    #21912112 - 07/07/15 09:50 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

One argues that living things were designed by an intelligent man that is invisible that lives in outer space because they are ignorant and don't understand evolution.


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InvisibleBodhi of Ankou
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Re: How can one argue that living things are truly "intelligently designed"? [Re: larry.fisherman]
    #21912452 - 07/07/15 10:59 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

XLCaps said:
Quote:

Bodhi of Ankou said:
I dont think its intelligently designed but it cultivates intelligence through beautifully subtle complexity. You say cancer is what eliminates the possibility of intelligent design but I think its one of those fundamental things that drives life to grow stronger. We're forced to understand ourselves at a deeper level to defeat it. Theres millions of these subtle little things out there like that, that cultivate and nurture a deeper intelligence and awareness in life. Even something like an omniverous diet slowly forces and escalates evolution into a dominant intelligence like us. It drives us to grow a strong memory, the ability to communicate, to build tools. It might not be some divine essence running a printing press for life and popping out life forms out of thin air, but there is an almost well thought out route to higher sapience that the greater whole of life pushes itself through to evolve, and from us and that intelligence I think there lies very little seperation.



It's hard to design something when it's always changing. Otherwise you'd need to pick and choose moments in time that are relevant to the point. Like a photograph or a memory.





Im not quite sure what youre trying to say, or how its even related to what im saying...


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OfflineAdolin
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Re: How can one argue that living things are truly "intelligently designed"? [Re: MagicalOrangutan]
    #21912479 - 07/07/15 11:05 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

MagicalOrangutan said:
I understand how you could argue that life APPEARS intelligently designed with all the symmetry of most lifeforms and the complex autonomy of a living thing, but consider, human beings will get cancer and die just from doing nothing wrong, if you're unlucky enough to certain genes mutate. So many flaws and things that go wrong. Obesity, autism, being a midgit or having gigantiam, etc. Humans can't even regenerate limbs, hell if I had the power to create life I'd at least be smart enough to make people able to regrow their legs they lost at war

So really, considering all the imperfections of life, I'd say you can't argue for intelligent design, you CAN argue that life SEEMS intelligently designed at first glance





the process of trial and error (what you're talking about in the quote) is exactly what the intellegent design concept hinges on


for example,(IMO) intellegent design isnt "god created human beings", it is "God created the process which produced human beings"


either way the concept is flexible, and i dont necessarily subscribe to its popular definition.


Edited by Adolin (07/07/15 11:06 PM)


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Offlineteamkiller
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Re: How can one argue that living things are truly "intelligently designed"? [Re: Adolin]
    #21912934 - 07/08/15 12:40 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

didn't read thread but i 100% agree.  One of the reasons intelligent design never appealed to me. Humans are designed like like bags of trash.


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Invisiblelarry.fisherman
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Re: How can one argue that living things are truly "intelligently designed"? [Re: teamkiller]
    #21912944 - 07/08/15 12:44 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

i wonder how a contractor would feel if he was just getting a house framed and some asshole came along and said "hey, you do shit work."


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InvisibleBodhi of Ankou
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Re: How can one argue that living things are truly "intelligently designed"? [Re: larry.fisherman]
    #21912959 - 07/08/15 12:49 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

He just hates it because hes trans :cookiemonster:


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: How can one argue that living things are truly "intelligently designed"? [Re: MagicalOrangutan]
    #21912999 - 07/08/15 01:02 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

MagicalOrangutan said:
I understand how you could argue that life APPEARS intelligently designed with all the symmetry of most lifeforms and the complex autonomy of a living thing, but consider, human beings will get cancer and die just from doing nothing wrong, if you're unlucky enough to certain genes mutate. So many flaws and things that go wrong. Obesity, autism, being a midgit or having gigantiam, etc. Humans can't even regenerate limbs, hell if I had the power to create life I'd at least be smart enough to make people able to regrow their legs they lost at war

So really, considering all the imperfections of life, I'd say you can't argue for intelligent design, you CAN argue that life SEEMS intelligently designed at first glance




you seem to think that intelligent design implies designing an immortal creature. an archetype of the "perfect" creature.  The fact that you see mortality as the weak link in the intelligent design viewpoint simply shows that you haven't thought it out far enough.  try to imagine a world where nothing ever dies. a world with just a handful of perfect immortal species.
BORING!  whats the fun in that?  now imagine a world where a relatively simple design has been modified and replicated innumerable times to create vast diversity of many kinds of life that are growing and changing all the time.  A world where the sheer diversity of life virtually ensures that it will always march on, in some form or another.

now, if you were designing life, which type of life would YOU strive to create?  perfect static life or chaotic shifting unstoppable life?


--------------------


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OfflineKremrBigSikter
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Re: How can one argue that living things are truly "intelligently designed"? [Re: ballsalsa]
    #21913414 - 07/08/15 04:08 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Quote:

MagicalOrangutan said:
I understand how you could argue that life APPEARS intelligently designed with all the symmetry of most lifeforms and the complex autonomy of a living thing, but consider, human beings will get cancer and die just from doing nothing wrong, if you're unlucky enough to certain genes mutate. So many flaws and things that go wrong. Obesity, autism, being a midgit or having gigantiam, etc. Humans can't even regenerate limbs, hell if I had the power to create life I'd at least be smart enough to make people able to regrow their legs they lost at war

So really, considering all the imperfections of life, I'd say you can't argue for intelligent design, you CAN argue that life SEEMS intelligently designed at first glance




you seem to think that intelligent design implies designing an immortal creature. an archetype of the "perfect" creature.  The fact that you see mortality as the weak link in the intelligent design viewpoint simply shows that you haven't thought it out far enough.  try to imagine a world where nothing ever dies. a world with just a handful of perfect immortal species.
BORING!  whats the fun in that?  now imagine a world where a relatively simple design has been modified and replicated innumerable times to create vast diversity of many kinds of life that are growing and changing all the time.  A world where the sheer diversity of life virtually ensures that it will always march on, in some form or another.

now, if you were designing life, which type of life would YOU strive to create?  perfect static life or chaotic shifting unstoppable life?



If I were designing life I would definitely make it so that lifeforms evolved from assholes up. Start with asshole, then later a mouth to feed the asshole, then tentacles to swim with to get food particles in the mouth to feed the asshole, and sho on and sho on until you have some crafty and narcissistic creatures who think they're hot shit, and can even create artificial life and robotic intelligence, even though their intelligence is only a means to throw food particles in their mouth hole to feed their asshole. Because that would be a hilarious way to "intelligently" design life from bottom up, and it just keeps on giving, eon after eon!


--------------------
I have pneumonia :pm:



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Invisiblepsi
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Re: How can one argue that living things are truly "intelligently designed"? [Re: MagicalOrangutan]
    #21913731 - 07/08/15 07:16 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Arguably there is a sort of intelligence to the process of evolution itself. In some ways this 'intelligence' is very limited, but the results are pretty impressive.


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OfflineCepheus
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Re: How can one argue that living things are truly "intelligently designed"? [Re: psi]
    #21913823 - 07/08/15 08:01 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Life is the most intelligent thing in the universe. Life is the universe, the universe is life. God is not a separate entity, god is life.

To argue that the adaptations that have occurred during the 4.3billion years that this planet has existed are not intelligent, is just as much of a foolish argument as to say some deity sat in the clouds made it all.

The fundamental issue with all arguments is communication. What does a Christian or a Muslim or a Sikh or whatever actually mean when they say god? What do I mean when I say that I am alive? What do you mean when you say intelligent?

If a human can be intelligent, how is life not intelligent? Just because I don't understand the process I can't write it off as not being intelligent.


--------------------
"I only ever hope to reach equilibrium, in Nature's matrix, in line with the meridian" ~ Jehst

:sun: "...and I know that I have to keep breathing, as tomorrow the sun will rise, who knows what the tide will bring?" :sun:

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Offlinefapjack
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Re: How can one argue that living things are truly "intelligently designed"? [Re: MagicalOrangutan]
    #21913988 - 07/08/15 08:51 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

There are a lot of theories, but how you go from a simple molecule that replicates to a complex molecule like RNA is not a simple task.  Even with all our technology we still haven't replicated the process.  I'm equally as skeptical about either idea.  If it was such a common occurrence how come we can't replicate it nor has it been observed in nature?  Simple life processes of even bacteria are extremely complex, the more I learn about them the more I am amazed and the less I think I know.  Science doesn't answer every question.


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Invisiblepsi
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Re: How can one argue that living things are truly "intelligently designed"? [Re: Cepheus]
    #21914012 - 07/08/15 08:57 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

One component of what most people would understand as intelligence is the capacity for imagination and planning, and that's not really something we see with the evolutionary process itself (except through our influence). New useful genes/traits aren't purposefully designed in nature, their initial appearance is just by happenstance (and far more of the time it's something useless or harmful instead that comes up). The capacity for planning is something we see in some of the life forms that resulted from the process though, including ourselves.


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OfflineCepheus
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Re: How can one argue that living things are truly "intelligently designed"? [Re: psi]
    #21914067 - 07/08/15 09:10 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I believe intelligence of some order is intrinsic to matter, and then as matter comes together in more and more complex arrangements, cognition evolves, or at least a higher order of cognition, becomes more apparent.

In terms of physical separation, the only thing that keeps me in check with the rest of the world is my own ego (the me part of my existence). There have been times when that has been obliterated by drugs and everything ceases to be, but my "ness" is still very very much alive, if not more alive than whilst there is a "me" cap on my being.

The word "atom" comes from greek and means the smallest divisible unit. Way back it was believed that things like carbon are "atoms" (and in the parlance of our time it's correct, but not technically accurate). As our technical knowledge evolves it seems to me that the separation of life from matter is one of the great fallacies of modern physics.


--------------------
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:sun: "...and I know that I have to keep breathing, as tomorrow the sun will rise, who knows what the tide will bring?" :sun:

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OfflineBeanhead
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Re: How can one argue that living things are truly "intelligently designed"? [Re: MagicalOrangutan]
    #21914069 - 07/08/15 09:10 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

MagicalOrangutan said:
I understand how you could argue that life APPEARS intelligently designed with all the symmetry of most lifeforms and the complex autonomy of a living thing, but consider, human beings will get cancer and die just from doing nothing wrong, if you're unlucky enough to certain genes mutate. So many flaws and things that go wrong. Obesity, autism, being a midgit or having gigantiam, etc. Humans can't even regenerate limbs, hell if I had the power to create life I'd at least be smart enough to make people able to regrow their legs they lost at war

So really, considering all the imperfections of life, I'd say you can't argue for intelligent design, you CAN argue that life SEEMS intelligently designed at first glance




Because we put our minds to things.
It doesn't matter what it is or how impossible.
In that aspect we are a very intelligent species.

Thanks to being out of the norm we thrive due to each differing biological design.
We can generate/bring forth complete humans all the time. No matter how many lose limbs.
No matter which death, disease, decay or destruction is upon us, we always recover and go further.

Look at our survival through history. You may disagree with how we do things as a species as a whole but yet we're still going.


Edited by Beanhead (07/08/15 09:11 AM)


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InvisibleSirShroomsAlott
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Re: How can one argue that living things are truly [Re: Beanhead]
    #21914140 - 07/08/15 09:29 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

And there are a lot more species that have been around way longer then us, I wouldn't deem them intelligent because of it nor would I deem us as intelligent because we found a way to thrive differently.

You say the universe isn't intelligently designed only because we deem ourselves intelligent and it isn't working the way we would do it if it was up to us, that doesn't make us any more capable of intelligent design or proof against it.

It's human bias, there is probably a reason everything exist the way it does, us not knowing why or saying we wouldn't do it that way isn't an argument against intellgent design IMO

Intelligent design wouldn't be restricted to only livi ng things too, intelligent design is everything, the universe as a whole and how it operates would be intelligently designed, living things included but only a small fraction of a large equation.


Edited by SirShroomsAlott (07/08/15 09:34 AM)


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: How can one argue that living things are truly "intelligently designed"? [Re: Confucian] * 1
    #21914155 - 07/08/15 09:34 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Confucian said:
One argues that living things were designed by an intelligent man that is invisible that lives in outer space because they are ignorant and don't understand evolution.





does it sound any more ridiculous than all life being created by a few proteins
and minerals combining and creating life after an enormous explosion, that
everything came from nothing?


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InvisibleConfucian
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Re: How can one argue that living things are truly "intelligently designed"? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #21914266 - 07/08/15 10:01 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Confucian said:
One argues that living things were designed by an intelligent man that is invisible that lives in outer space because they are ignorant and don't understand evolution.





does it sound any more ridiculous than all life being created by a few proteins
and minerals combining and creating life after an enormous explosion, that
everything came from nothing?




No. Not at all.

One is a natural process that can be studied/observed/understood.

Another is a super natural fairy tale invented by very primitive hunter gatherers who didn't shower, didn't have paper to wipe their behinds, didn't have refrigerators, electricity, or any clue as to how the world worked.


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InvisibleSirShroomsAlott
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Re: How can one argue that living things are truly "intelligently designed"? [Re: Confucian]
    #21914277 - 07/08/15 10:05 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

The big bang coming from nothing can't be observed and probably never truly understood if they're right about time and space not even existing before it.

We also haven't been able to recreate life from scratch so that also hasnt be observed or understood as of yet either.

Being plausible, and being observed and studied are two different things.


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InvisibleConfucian
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Re: How can one argue that living things are truly "intelligently designed"? [Re: SirShroomsAlott]
    #21914303 - 07/08/15 10:13 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Also, it's very sad and intellectually lazy to just say "God did it" when there is a mystery. I think they call it the God of the Gaps, and every day this God slowly disintegrates.


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OfflineOggy
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Re: How can one argue that living things are truly "intelligently designed"? [Re: SirShroomsAlott]
    #21914307 - 07/08/15 10:13 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Everything on this planet was designed to be part of something. It's easy to see that in nature. If one species goes extinct hundreds, possibly thousands of species would be affected by it.

Every living thing has been constructed over millions of years to work, survive and thrive through one another. If not for plants, rabbit would die, if not for the rabbit the fox would have nothing to hunt.

Here's an easy to understand euphenism: we're all apart of a big domino stack, it would take only one stray piece to fall over to topple the rest.


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InvisibleConfucian
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Re: How can one argue that living things are truly "intelligently designed"? [Re: SirShroomsAlott]
    #21914319 - 07/08/15 10:15 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

SirShroomsAlott said:
The big bang coming from nothing can't be observed and probably never truly understood if they're right about time and space not even existing before it.

We also haven't been able to recreate life from scratch so that also hasnt be observed or understood as of yet either.

Being plausible, and being observed and studied are two different things.




I am so sorry that we figured out 99.9% of what happened during an event 13.82 billion years ago, but don't know what led up to it.

And it's also terribly unfortunate that we don't have a time machine to see what happened 4500 million years ago (1 million years repeated 4500 times). Musta been an old man that lives in outer space, LOL!


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: How can one argue that living things are truly "intelligently designed"? [Re: Confucian] * 1
    #21914338 - 07/08/15 10:20 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Confucian said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Confucian said:
One argues that living things were designed by an intelligent man that is invisible that lives in outer space because they are ignorant and don't understand evolution.





does it sound any more ridiculous than all life being created by a few proteins
and minerals combining and creating life after an enormous explosion, that
everything came from nothing?




No. Not at all.

One is a natural process that can be studied/observed/understood.

Another is a super natural fairy tale invented by very primitive hunter gatherers who didn't shower, didn't have paper to wipe their behinds, didn't have refrigerators, electricity, or any clue as to how the world worked.






so show us the study where we've created life artificially, created something
from nothing or created a universe. science for you is clearly a religion
because you're pushing models as fact


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: How can one argue that living things are truly "intelligently designed"? [Re: Confucian]
    #21914341 - 07/08/15 10:20 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Confucian said:
Quote:

SirShroomsAlott said:
The big bang coming from nothing can't be observed and probably never truly understood if they're right about time and space not even existing before it.

We also haven't been able to recreate life from scratch so that also hasnt be observed or understood as of yet either.

Being plausible, and being observed and studied are two different things.




I am so sorry that we figured out 99.9% of what happened during an event 13.82 billion years ago, but don't know what led up to it.

And it's also terribly unfortunate that we don't have a time machine to see what happened 4500 million years ago (1 million years repeated 4500 times). Musta been an old man that lives in outer space, LOL!






religious nuts, lol


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InvisibleSirShroomsAlott
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Re: How can one argue that living things are truly "intelligently designed"? [Re: Confucian]
    #21914343 - 07/08/15 10:21 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I'm not making an argument for god, just showing the flaws in the argument you used.

It might be sad that god did it with nothing to back up the claim, and you are correct that it is the god of the gaps argument. Whenever we reach a point that we don't understand, well then that must be "gods doing", until a better understanding comes along, and then god did that.

You call it sad but minds much greater than yours or mine have fallen back to that argument. Issac Newton being the perfect example. It seems to be human nature to want to have the answer to something whether it be the right one or not, what you call sad, I call normal :shrug: even if I don't happen to agree with any of it myself.

And just because we have an understanding of the events and how they happened, still isn't proof against a god, it's just proof that religion has it wrong, but not what put it into place in the first place.

"but don't know what led up to it."

Well if time and space didn't even exist, some force (call that force whatever you want, most say god) could of been what put it all into place, but saying so doesn't stop people from trying to figure out or understand it and explain how that force did so, so what's the problem?


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: How can one argue that living things are truly "intelligently designed"? [Re: SirShroomsAlott]
    #21914350 - 07/08/15 10:23 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

SirShroomsAlott said:
I'm not making an argument for god, just showing the flaws in the argument you used.







but he said we've figured out 99.9% of what happened 13 billion years ago when
everything was created from nothing.... religion is what it sounds like


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Re: How can one argue that living things are truly "intelligently designed"? [Re: Confucian]
    #21914354 - 07/08/15 10:24 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Confucian said:

I am so sorry that we figured out 99.9% of what happened during an event 13.82 billion years ago, but don't know what led up to it.





Quote:

I'm sorry that we have inferred from a few tidbits of available info(microwave background radiation) 99.9% of what is assumed to have happened during an event 13.82 billion years ago(we're pretty sure about that number) but don't know what led up to it.




fixed it for you.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: How can one argue that living things are truly "intelligently designed"? [Re: ballsalsa]
    #21914362 - 07/08/15 10:27 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Quote:

Confucian said:

I am so sorry that we figured out 99.9% of what happened during an event 13.82 billion years ago, but don't know what led up to it.





Quote:

I'm sorry that we have inferred from a few tidbits of available info(microwave background radiation) 99.9% of what is assumed to have happened during an event 13.82 billion years ago(we're pretty sure about that number) but don't know what led up to it but we really have no clue so I'll tout this model as being the gospel according to the one true savior Richard Dawkins.




fixed it for you.




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InvisibleSirShroomsAlott
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Re: How can one argue that living things are truly "intelligently designed"? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #21914364 - 07/08/15 10:27 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

SirShroomsAlott said:
I'm not making an argument for god, just showing the flaws in the argument you used.







but he said we've figured out 99.9% of what happened 13 billion years ago when
everything was created from nothing.... religion is what it sounds like




Indeed it does, science and atheism are used by certain individuals as a religion itself, nothing, and I repeat, nothing has all the answers, and those answers can always be wrong, especially since we don't know everything about the universe and new discoveries lead to changes in science itself. It isn't absolute, but is used as if it was. We can discover things 40 years from now about the universe that revolutionizes how we perceive the universe and how it came to be, our answers as of now are just the best ones that fit with the things we have an understanding on, incomplete.


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OfflineVsnares.Zappa
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Re: How can one argue that living things are truly "intelligently designed"? [Re: SirShroomsAlott]
    #21914390 - 07/08/15 10:39 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

some theorists argue that our universe might be spawned from the collapse of a four-dimension star. lol. whatever that means


Our Universe Evolved from the Black Hole of a Collapsed 4-D Star 


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Re: How can one argue that living things are truly "intelligently designed"? [Re: Vsnares.Zappa]
    #21914407 - 07/08/15 10:43 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Im more interested in the temperature irregularities that dont coincide with classically held belief :strokebeard2:


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Re: How can one argue that living things are truly "intelligently designed"? [Re: Oggy]
    #21914438 - 07/08/15 10:54 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Oggy said:
Everything on this planet was designed to be part of something. It's easy to see that in nature. If one species goes extinct hundreds, possibly thousands of species would be affected by it.

Every living thing has been constructed over millions of years to work, survive and thrive through one another. If not for plants, rabbit would die, if not for the rabbit the fox would have nothing to hunt.

Here's an easy to understand euphenism: we're all apart of a big domino stack, it would take only one stray piece to fall over to topple the rest.




So with your line of reasoning, if a species goes extinct it could cause the destruction of all life on Earth.  You do realize 99% of all species are gone.


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Re: How can one argue that living things are truly "intelligently designed"? [Re: qman]
    #21914458 - 07/08/15 11:01 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Oggy said:
Everything on this planet was designed to be part of something. It's easy to see that in nature. If one species goes extinct hundreds, possibly thousands of species would be affected by it.

Every living thing has been constructed over millions of years to work, survive and thrive through one another. If not for plants, rabbit would die, if not for the rabbit the fox would have nothing to hunt.

Here's an easy to understand euphenism: we're all apart of a big domino stack, it would take only one stray piece to fall over to topple the rest.




So with your line of reasoning, if a species goes extinct it could cause the destruction of all life on Earth.  You do realize 99% of all species are gone.




yeah, ecology is a bit more complex than the domino effect.  but it is a decent(if highly simplified) analogy.  It applies more to trophic specialists and less to trophic generalists.


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InvisibleConfucian
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Re: How can one argue that living things are truly "intelligently designed"? [Re: Prisoner#1] * 1
    #21916171 - 07/08/15 06:02 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Confucian said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Confucian said:
One argues that living things were designed by an intelligent man that is invisible that lives in outer space because they are ignorant and don't understand evolution.





does it sound any more ridiculous than all life being created by a few proteins
and minerals combining and creating life after an enormous explosion, that
everything came from nothing?




No. Not at all.

One is a natural process that can be studied/observed/understood.

Another is a super natural fairy tale invented by very primitive hunter gatherers who didn't shower, didn't have paper to wipe their behinds, didn't have refrigerators, electricity, or any clue as to how the world worked.






so show us the study where we've created life artificially, created something
from nothing or created a universe. science for you is clearly a religion
because you're pushing models as fact




Calling science a religion is a stretch, hoss.

I don't really see how they are similar.


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InvisibleSirShroomsAlott
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Re: How can one argue that living things are truly "intelligently designed"? [Re: Confucian]
    #21916193 - 07/08/15 06:07 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

They aren't similar, but the way you are using it is like it's a religion to you.


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Re: How can one argue that living things are truly "intelligently designed"? [Re: Sophistic Radiance] * 1
    #21916310 - 07/08/15 06:41 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

BlindSophist said:
It's lack of imagination combined with sheer ignorance of life's processes. And of course, don't forget about the charlatans who are slavering to turn a quick buck on the abundance of these precious natural resources.


WTF I intended on reading the whole thread to get up to speed and this  is the second post? :wtfsonic: I am now dumber for having read it! MAY GOD HAVE MERCY ON YOUR SOUL.


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Re: How can one argue that living things are truly "intelligently designed"? [Re: MagicalOrangutan]
    #21916399 - 07/08/15 07:00 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

intelligent yes intelligent design no
I think the universe is intelligent and since we are the universe we are intelligent.
But if you think evolution is bullshit you're crazy. It's constantly happening right in front of your face.


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InvisibleSirShroomsAlott
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Re: How can one argue that living things are truly "intelligently designed"? [Re: Eggtimer]
    #21916717 - 07/08/15 08:08 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

How can you say it isn't intelligently designed, solely because we are human and since the universe and life doesn't work in our favor all the time there is flaws? Unless you have a mind capable of creating a universe and life and how it will operate, you are in no position to say the workings of it are flawed. It's human bias to think because disease and other misfortunes fall upon us that it was designed unintelligently, what makes anyone think anything about the universe was or was not created with us in mind.

You cannot possibly make the claim that the universe is not intelligently designed because you view how it operates as wrong. Are we so important and conceited that we think the universe was designed to operate in our favor or with us even in mind, for all we know, the universe is operating perfectly for whatever goal it was created for in the first place. If there was even a creator anyway, because you are close minded and arrogant if you think you can know one way or the other what the intentions behind this universe was if there was even one at all.

We are nothing to the universe, just because we don't like death and disease and how we can't regrow limbs or any of that other nonsense, doesn't mean jack shit, because the way life itself operates might have nothing to do at all with our own beliefs or individual lives, and works the way it does for a much greater reason then us or our happiness.

"How can one argue that living things are truly "intelligently designed"? "

How can one argue the opposite, without knowing the purpose for life existing in the first place?


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Re: How can one argue that living things are truly "intelligently designed"? [Re: SirShroomsAlott]
    #21917686 - 07/09/15 12:40 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I think its far more stupid to say that there was a total lack of intelligence in its creation. That it just happened randomly. Completely randomly without any influence whatsoever. It just poofed into existence. To me thats as stupid as saying some humonoid god blew it into existence. Both of them seem to be as far from the truth as you can get.


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