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InvisibleMr.PhilCybin
Master Baiter
I'm a teapot

Registered: 06/13/11
Posts: 11,642
Loc: Gnarnia
Re: Transgender children [Re: Sophistic Radiance] * 4
    #21914623 - 07/08/15 11:49 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

BlindSophist said:
Trans people are not "confused". Research shows that we know very early, and that we benefit very early from these treatments. Frankly, it's inhumane to withhold needed medicine from children saying they need to "figure the world out" before they can be healthy. Would you deal the same way with any other medical problem? As much as you seem to believe you have sorted out life's mysteries you are very ignorant on this subject matter and insist on mischaracterizing the issues at hand according to your gut feelings without regard for reality. This is not how medicine works.



bullshit.

trans people are confused just as much as any other human is confused about the world.  No one has it figured out.
don't be so quick to elevate yourself on a high horse.  In no way was I trying to isolate trans people in that they're confused. 

I also never claimed to have everything figured out.  I'm miles away from that.  All I said was that I know who I am now, but it took many years.

I think you're misinterpreting what I'm trying to say here because you're so defensive all the time.  (which I don't blame you for, and sympathize with)

This isn't the same as saying a kid who has a medical disease should be without medicine.  Every time this subject comes up, you equate it to a medical condition with more physical symptoms, when this is much more of a psychological issue.

So, to use a more accurate comparison, I don't agree with how fast children are fed adhd medication , or a number of other prescription drugs that are all too commonly quickly throw at kids these days.


--------------------
I'm stupid, Falcon91Wolvrn03 is smart.
I'm ugly, Falcon91Wolvrn03 is beautiful.
I'm a loser, Falcon91Wolvrn03 is a winner.
Someday, I hope to be like Falcon91Wolvrn03 but secretly know I never will.


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Invisiblemillzy
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Registered: 05/12/10
Posts: 12,404
Re: Transgender children [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #21914624 - 07/08/15 11:50 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

BlindSophist said:
Quote:

millzy said:
why would a parent push that on their child though? that any parent would even entertain such an idea seems like a ridiculous premise to me. as far as the ethics of hormone therapy in young transgendering kids goes, i would have to defer to the experts because the only thing i understand about transgendering is that it ought to be taken seriously. so many hateful, small minded people here.




I don't understand this, as if being trans is something that wacko hippie liberal parents force on their kids. Kids know and complain about it and ask for help and suddenly everybody's a Christian fucking Scientist. The humane thing to do is to help them, not to blame the parents for something beyond their control and to tell the kid to live with poison in their veins for a few years because of their own fucking hangups.




i agree. and ignorance like some of the views expressed in this thread must make it very hard for the families of transgendering people.


--------------------
I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger


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InvisibleRan-D
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Registered: 12/19/10
Posts: 16,313
Re: Transgender children [Re: Sophistic Radiance] * 2
    #21914634 - 07/08/15 11:52 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

BlindSophist said:
tell the kid to live with poison in their veins for a few years because of their own fucking hangups.




What poison are you referring to?


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InvisibleMr.PhilCybin
Master Baiter
I'm a teapot

Registered: 06/13/11
Posts: 11,642
Loc: Gnarnia
Re: Transgender children [Re: Sophistic Radiance] * 4
    #21914642 - 07/08/15 11:53 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

BlindSophist said:
Quote:

millzy said:
why would a parent push that on their child though? that any parent would even entertain such an idea seems like a ridiculous premise to me. as far as the ethics of hormone therapy in young transgendering kids goes, i would have to defer to the experts because the only thing i understand about transgendering is that it ought to be taken seriously. so many hateful, small minded people here.




I don't understand this, as if being trans is something that wacko hippie liberal parents force on their kids. Trans kids know and complain about it and ask for help and suddenly everybody's a Christian fucking Scientist. The humane thing to do is to help them, not to blame the parents for something beyond their control and to tell the kid to live with poison in their veins for a few years because of their own fucking hangups.




Helping a child means guiding them through life; not feeding them drugs before they know who they are.  So many of us males (who still currently identify as male) used to play dress us, were really confused at our dicks which we didn't understand, maybe even idolized girls, and probably some of them identified with (note: I chose the word with, and not as) girls, because we were around them, felt comfortable and safe, or a multitude of other reasons.

You're trans.  great.  Your transition is making you happier.  awesome.
I sincerely am happy for you, but not everyone carries that out throughout life.


--------------------
I'm stupid, Falcon91Wolvrn03 is smart.
I'm ugly, Falcon91Wolvrn03 is beautiful.
I'm a loser, Falcon91Wolvrn03 is a winner.
Someday, I hope to be like Falcon91Wolvrn03 but secretly know I never will.


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Female

Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
Re: Transgender children [Re: Mr.PhilCybin]
    #21914645 - 07/08/15 11:54 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Mr.PhilCybin said:
trans people are confused just as much as any other human is confused about the world.  No one has it figured out.
don't be so quick to elevate yourself on a high horse.  In no way was I trying to isolate trans people in that they're confused. 




A kid assigned male who says she's supposed to be female is not "confused". Ever. She is in need of support, guidance, and antiandrogens.

Quote:

I think you're misinterpreting what I'm trying to say here because you're so defensive all the time.  (which I don't blame you for, and sympathize with)




Bullshit. You have always been antagonistic in relation to conversations of this nature. You do not take trans people at their word regarding their own experiences. You insist on naming and explaining all of their own experiences for them without their input or consent or any modicum of self-education or expertise. Experiences with which you have no familiarity of your own. You have no sympathy.

Quote:

This isn't the same as saying a kid who has a medical disease should be without medicine.  Every time this subject comes up, you equate it to a medical condition with more physical symptoms, when this is much more of a psychological issue.




Research shows that it is a medical condition with physical symptoms. It is not psychological.

Quote:

So, to use a more accurate comparison, I don't agree with how fast children are fed adhd medication , or a number of other prescription drugs that are all too commonly quickly throw at kids these days.




Those are completely unrelated issues.


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InvisibleMr.PhilCybin
Master Baiter
I'm a teapot

Registered: 06/13/11
Posts: 11,642
Loc: Gnarnia
Re: Transgender children [Re: Ran-D] * 3
    #21914646 - 07/08/15 11:54 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Ran-D said:
Quote:

BlindSophist said:
tell the kid to live with poison in their veins for a few years because of their own fucking hangups.




What poison are you referring to?





I really, really hope they're not about to say that the natural, chromosomal dictated hormones are poison. . . . . . .


--------------------
I'm stupid, Falcon91Wolvrn03 is smart.
I'm ugly, Falcon91Wolvrn03 is beautiful.
I'm a loser, Falcon91Wolvrn03 is a winner.
Someday, I hope to be like Falcon91Wolvrn03 but secretly know I never will.


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
Free sVs!
Female

Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
Re: Transgender children [Re: Mr.PhilCybin]
    #21914657 - 07/08/15 11:56 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Mr.PhilCybin said:
Quote:

Ran-D said:
Quote:

BlindSophist said:
tell the kid to live with poison in their veins for a few years because of their own fucking hangups.




What poison are you referring to?





I really, really hope they're not about to say that the natural, chromosomal dictated hormones are poison. . . . . . .




Such sympathy. I am so impressed. :whatever:


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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Offlineqman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 1 hour, 45 minutes
Re: Transgender children [Re: Mr.PhilCybin] * 3
    #21914663 - 07/08/15 11:57 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Shouldn't these children just wait until they are 16-18 before they do anything major?


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Female

Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
Re: Transgender children [Re: qman]
    #21914665 - 07/08/15 11:58 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Shouldn't these children just wait until they are 16-18 before they do anything major?




Puberty blockers are reversible and the recommended treatment is to give them puberty blockers until they turn 18.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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InvisibleMr.PhilCybin
Master Baiter
I'm a teapot

Registered: 06/13/11
Posts: 11,642
Loc: Gnarnia
Re: Transgender children [Re: Mr.PhilCybin] * 3
    #21914667 - 07/08/15 11:59 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Bullshit. You have always been antagonistic in relation to conversations of this nature. You do not take trans people at their word regarding their own experiences. You insist on naming and explaining all of their own experiences for them without their input or consent. You have no sympathy.




:lol: yet you won't take me at my word that I have sympathy?


I am quick to interject because you've made the bogus claim more than once comparing being trans, to serious medical illnesses, and I find it very offensive. 

Quote:

A kid assigned male who says she's supposed to be female is not "confused". Ever. She is in need of support, guidance, and antiandrogens.



so trans kids are more enlightened than everyone else?  get real.

and please, tell me how feeding kids hormonal drugs is different than feeding them other mid altering drugs.


--------------------
I'm stupid, Falcon91Wolvrn03 is smart.
I'm ugly, Falcon91Wolvrn03 is beautiful.
I'm a loser, Falcon91Wolvrn03 is a winner.
Someday, I hope to be like Falcon91Wolvrn03 but secretly know I never will.


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InvisibleMr.PhilCybin
Master Baiter
I'm a teapot

Registered: 06/13/11
Posts: 11,642
Loc: Gnarnia
Re: Transgender children [Re: Sophistic Radiance] * 4
    #21914669 - 07/08/15 12:00 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

BlindSophist said:
Quote:

Mr.PhilCybin said:
Quote:

Ran-D said:
Quote:

BlindSophist said:
tell the kid to live with poison in their veins for a few years because of their own fucking hangups.




What poison are you referring to?





I really, really hope they're not about to say that the natural, chromosomal dictated hormones are poison. . . . . . .




Such sympathy. I am so impressed. :whatever:




so, are you really calling NATURAL HORMONES  poison?


you're being ridiculous.


--------------------
I'm stupid, Falcon91Wolvrn03 is smart.
I'm ugly, Falcon91Wolvrn03 is beautiful.
I'm a loser, Falcon91Wolvrn03 is a winner.
Someday, I hope to be like Falcon91Wolvrn03 but secretly know I never will.


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
Free sVs!
Female

Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
Re: Transgender children [Re: Mr.PhilCybin]
    #21914673 - 07/08/15 12:01 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Mr.PhilCybin said:
Quote:

Bullshit. You have always been antagonistic in relation to conversations of this nature. You do not take trans people at their word regarding their own experiences. You insist on naming and explaining all of their own experiences for them without their input or consent. You have no sympathy.




:lol: yet you won't take me at my word that I have sympathy?




I don't have to take you at your word. You demonstrate not one bit of sympathy in these discussions.


Quote:

I am quick to interject because you've made the bogus claim more than once comparing being trans, to serious medical illnesses, and I find it very offensive. 




It's not offensive. It's science.

Quote:

Quote:

A kid assigned male who says she's supposed to be female is not "confused". Ever. She is in need of support, guidance, and antiandrogens.



so trans kids are more enlightened than everyone else?  get real.




They are certainly more enlightened than anybody with regards to their own inner life and needs.

Quote:

and please, tell me how feeding kids hormonal drugs is different than feeding them other mid altering drugs.




Puberty blockers are not "mind altering".


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
Universally Loathed and Reviled
Male User Gallery


Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,858
Loc: Foreign Lands
Re: Transgender children [Re: millzy]
    #21914680 - 07/08/15 12:02 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)



--------------------


Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here


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InvisibleMr.GuessWork
Stranger
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Registered: 03/30/13
Posts: 4,563
Re: Transgender children [Re: Mr.PhilCybin]
    #21914681 - 07/08/15 12:02 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Mr.PhilCybin said:
Quote:

BlindSophist said:
Trans people are not "confused". Research shows that we know very early, and that we benefit very early from these treatments. Frankly, it's inhumane to withhold needed medicine from children saying they need to "figure the world out" before they can be healthy. Would you deal the same way with any other medical problem? As much as you seem to believe you have sorted out life's mysteries you are very ignorant on this subject matter and insist on mischaracterizing the issues at hand according to your gut feelings without regard for reality. This is not how medicine works.



bullshit.

trans people are confused just as much as any other human is confused about the world.  No one has it figured out.
don't be so quick to elevate yourself on a high horse.  In no way was I trying to isolate trans people in that they're confused. 

I also never claimed to have everything figured out.  I'm miles away from that.  All I said was that I know who I am now, but it took many years.

I think you're misinterpreting what I'm trying to say here because you're so defensive all the time.  (which I don't blame you for, and sympathize with)

This isn't the same as saying a kid who has a medical disease should be without medicine.  Every time this subject comes up, you equate it to a medical condition with more physical symptoms, when this is much more of a psychological issue.

So, to use a more accurate comparison, I don't agree with how fast children are fed adhd medication , or a number of other prescription drugs that are all too commonly quickly throw at kids these days.




It's been traditionally viewed as a psychological issue, but that's wrong. A trans-gendered guy is more like a girl with a penis than a guy whole thinks he's a girl. If you were a chick, would you want to have a penis just because you were born with it?

Psychiatry is often sloppy, especially when diagnostic criteria are weak and there's a profit to be made (the case with ADHD), but the psychologists seem to be being VERY careful with the transgender surgeries and medications. It's not the kind of thing that you get diagnosed with and treated for after one doctor's appt.


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InvisibleMr.PhilCybin
Master Baiter
I'm a teapot

Registered: 06/13/11
Posts: 11,642
Loc: Gnarnia
Re: Transgender children [Re: Sophistic Radiance] * 1
    #21914686 - 07/08/15 12:04 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

fair enough.

I'm insensitive, you're out to lunch.



I'll leave it at that.


--------------------
I'm stupid, Falcon91Wolvrn03 is smart.
I'm ugly, Falcon91Wolvrn03 is beautiful.
I'm a loser, Falcon91Wolvrn03 is a winner.
Someday, I hope to be like Falcon91Wolvrn03 but secretly know I never will.


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InvisibleRan-D
 User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 12/19/10
Posts: 16,313
Re: Transgender children [Re: Ran-D]
    #21914687 - 07/08/15 12:04 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Ran-D said:
Quote:

BlindSophist said:
tell the kid to live with poison in their veins for a few years because of their own fucking hangups.




What poison are you referring to?




This was a serious question...


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
Universally Loathed and Reviled
Male User Gallery


Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,858
Loc: Foreign Lands
Re: Transgender children [Re: Mr.GuessWork] * 4
    #21914695 - 07/08/15 12:07 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

i'm just a regular dude.  kinda skinny actually.  but i identify with being a Nordic Strong-man competitor.  It causes me distress, every time i look in the mirror and see a 155lb guy.  Why won't anyone prescribe me some sweet hormones to make me bigger?  maybe a few surgeries to make me taller.  some ab implants...maybe a bigger shwang...


--------------------


Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
Free sVs!
Female

Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
Re: Transgender children [Re: Ran-D]
    #21914696 - 07/08/15 12:07 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Ran-D said:
Quote:

Ran-D said:
Quote:

BlindSophist said:
tell the kid to live with poison in their veins for a few years because of their own fucking hangups.




What poison are you referring to?




This was a serious question...




Testosterone is like a poison for trans women.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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InvisibleMr.PhilCybin
Master Baiter
I'm a teapot

Registered: 06/13/11
Posts: 11,642
Loc: Gnarnia
Re: Transgender children [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #21914705 - 07/08/15 12:10 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

BlindSophist said:
Quote:

Ran-D said:
Quote:

Ran-D said:
Quote:

BlindSophist said:
tell the kid to live with poison in their veins for a few years because of their own fucking hangups.




What poison are you referring to?




This was a serious question...




Testosterone is like a poison for trans women.




jesus christ.


I'm done.


--------------------
I'm stupid, Falcon91Wolvrn03 is smart.
I'm ugly, Falcon91Wolvrn03 is beautiful.
I'm a loser, Falcon91Wolvrn03 is a winner.
Someday, I hope to be like Falcon91Wolvrn03 but secretly know I never will.


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
Free sVs!
Female

Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
Re: Transgender children [Re: Mr.PhilCybin]
    #21914709 - 07/08/15 12:11 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Show me some more of that famous sympathy.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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